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Thread: USA elections 2020

  1. #401

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Republicans are delusional if they think distancing themselves from Trump in down ballot races will help more than it hurts. Now, as ever, they must sink or swim with him. They made that choice long before the current crisis.
    Someone needs to remind them of what 2012 looked like for the GOP. That ought to shock them back in line.

  2. #402
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    How have you established that he wasn't briefed? All we have is the White House insisting that he wasn't, without explicitly saying if the intelligence was included in the February PDB.

    The NYT article that reported this--which came out a day before the press briefing--says the following:



    In order for it to be fake news, either the NYT or their sources would have to be lying. That's not likely given how everyone seems to have known about this back in March but (ostensibly) the President himself.
    As reported in Breitbart, the NYT article was fake news. Even the Dems in Washington have changed their wording to say it is "likely" that the President was briefed. In case you don't know, this is their fallback CYA mode. The next thing they'll claim, if the news doesn't die out, is that they never said definitely that Trump was briefed.

  3. #403

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    As reported in Breitbart, the NYT article was fake news.
    I repeat: How did they establish that? Breitbart's source is the White House press briefing. The NYT source is leaked information from two WH officials.

    We don't know which one is telling the truth, but looking at the peripheral evidence, it's far more likely the WH is lying. Saying the President was the last to be informed about this--even after allies and coalition partners!--is too fantastical to be believed.

  4. #404
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Trump Desperate, Despondent as Numbers Crater | Vanity Fair

    With Donald Trump’s approval sinking to Jimmy Carter levels and coronavirus cases spiking across the country, Trump is reluctantly waking up to the grim reality that, if the current situation holds, his reelection is gone. Republicans that have spoken with Trump in recent days describe him as depressed and “down in the dumps.” “People around him think his heart’s not in it,” a Republican close to the White House said. Torn between the imperative to win suburban voters and his instincts to play to his base, Trump has complained to people that he’s in a political box with no obvious way out. According to the Republican, Trump called Tucker Carlson late last week and said, “what do I do? What do I do?”…

    Nervous Republicans worried about losing the Senate are now debating when to break from Trump. … A Republican strategist close to Mitch McConnell told me that Republicans have Labor Day penciled in as the deadline for Trump to have turned things around. After that, he’s on his own.
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  5. #405
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  6. #406
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-de...142824615.html

    President Vladimir Putin of Russia responded with an ominous warning, saying weapons in the separatist regions could easily be sent “to other zones of conflict” — which many took to mean Afghanistan.
    Andrei Serenko, an expert at the Center for the Study of Contemporary Afghanistan in Moscow, said Russia has no real desire to see the U.S. leave Afghanistan and revels in America’s agonies from an endless conflict he described as a “sore blister for the United States.”

    All the same, he said, Russia has been preparing for an eventual pullout by cultivating ties to the Taliban as well as to various Afghan warlords. It has done this with money and other inducements in the hope of shaping future Afghan events and securing a useful instrument to poke Washington. The Taliban, like many other Afghan groups, he added, has a long record of running protection rackets and taking cash from foreigners, including Russians, Americans and Chinese. “This is what they do,” he said. “They are Afghanistan’s most successful business.”

    Russia, he said, “decided that if we can create lots of problems for Americans in Afghanistan, they will create fewer problems for us in Ukraine and Syria.”

    Moscow has been reaching out to the Taliban for years, starting in 1995 when Kabulov traveled to Kandahar, a Taliban stronghold in the south, to negotiate the release of Russian pilots who had been taken hostage.
    Keep on believing that Russia wouldn't target American soldiers in Afghanistan. They haven't forgot their own experience in Afghanistan nor the US arming Ukraine and Syrian rebels who targeted their forces.

  7. #407
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-de...142824615.html

    Keep on believing that Russia wouldn't target American soldiers in Afghanistan. They haven't forgot their own experience in Afghanistan nor the US arming Ukraine and Syrian rebels who targeted their forces.
    The argument isn't really over whether the bounty story is believable, its about whether it's verifiable and what, if anything, the president knew about it. Either way, there's a tiresome (and at this stage predictable) irony in the same people who've spent the last four years characterizing Trump as unhinged, impulsive and treacherous now agitating for him to pursue a policy of military escalation.

  8. #408
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The argument isn't really over whether the bounty story is believable, its about whether it's verifiable and what, if anything, the president knew about it. Either way, there's a tiresome (and at this stage predictable) irony in the same people who've spent the last four years characterizing Trump as unhinged, impulsive and treacherous now agitating for him to pursue a policy of military escalation.
    Its never going to be verifiable. Russian government wouldn't want to get caught directly supporting the Taliban anyway. They can just use private organizations and individuals to do the dirty work like they have been since Ukraine.

    The Trump thing is overblown. Whenever he knew about it or not is irrelevant in my opinion. Better question is what can you do about it that the US isn't already doing? Arming the various Islamists Russia faces from Chechnya to Syria is out of the question and a dumb idea. You could sanction them more but this won't have a serious effect on them. You can honestly only continue the current US policy toward Russia and its allies to do any real damage.

  9. #409

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Its never going to be verifiable. Russian government wouldn't want to get caught directly supporting the Taliban anyway. They can just use private organizations and individuals to do the dirty work like they have been since Ukraine.

    The Trump thing is overblown. Whenever he knew about it or not is irrelevant in my opinion. Better question is what can you do about it that the US isn't already doing? Arming the various Islamists Russia faces from Chechnya to Syria is out of the question and a dumb idea. You could sanction them more but this won't have a serious effect on them. You can honestly only continue the current US policy toward Russia and its allies to do any real damage.
    There is much more we can do.

    First, we must categorically reject Putin's Russia.

    -The United States has no common ground with Russia. We have no shared interests, goals, or values, nothing on which any relationship could be built. Any interaction between the United States and Russia is therefore zero sum. What hurts one helps the other.

    -Dialogue and diplomacy with Russia are therefore pointless wastes of time and calls for diplomatic engagement are hopelessly naïve. There is no legitimate reason for the United States to have diplomatic ties with Russia or for anyone in the government to have contact with a Russian.

    -Those who preach submission to Russia, covered with the fig leaf of "easing tensions" or "partnership" are either dupes for Russia or Russian agents.

    -Russia has shown through it's actions that it is always attempting to undermine stable democracies. Any offers of "help" from Russia in the form of aid or intelligence should therefore be seen as treachery meant to subvert us from within. No aid from Russia could ever possibly be worth the price.

    -In a similar vein, business ties with Russia are just another route for it to get it's claws into our country. All US businesses should immediately divest themselves of any holdings or interests in and stop all trade with Russia. Those that refuse should be seen as collaborators and be nationalized.

    Once this becomes official policy regarding Russia, we should do the following:

    -Stop treating Russia like a legitimate state when it is in fact a criminal enterprise. Freeze the money and seize the properties Putin and his cronies have stashed in the West.

    -Remove Russia from the G-20.

    -Kick Russia out of the SWIFT system, denying Russian banks access to international monetary transfers.

    -Designate Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, just like North Korea, which also used a nerve agent for an assassination abroad.

    -Immediately offer official recognition and aid to any groups that wish to break away from Russia to form their own state.

    -Arm the Ukrainians so that they can shove the Russians off their territory.

    -Constantly work to fortify NATO's eastern front. Induct Ukraine and as many other former Russian satellites as possible into NATO, and provide them with nuclear weapons to keep the Russians out.

    -Work for regime change in Russia.

  10. #410
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    First, we must categorically reject Putin's Russia.
    Its basically the Second Cold War right now. We basically have done that.

    The United States has no common ground with Russia. We have no shared interests, goals, or values, nothing on which any relationship could be built. Any interaction between the United States and Russia is therefore zero sum. What hurts one helps the other.

    -Dialogue and diplomacy with Russia are therefore pointless wastes of time and calls for diplomatic engagement are hopelessly naïve. There is no legitimate reason for the United States to have diplomatic ties with Russia or for anyone in the government to have contact with a Russian.
    Cutting ties has no benefit except bringing the US and Russia closer to conflict. Opposing Russian ambitions is fine but there's no reason for unnecessary escalation.

    Russia has shown through it's actions that it is always attempting to undermine stable democracies. Any offers of "help" from Russia in the form of aid or intelligence should therefore be seen as treachery meant to subvert us from within. No aid from Russia could ever possibly be worth the price.
    Considering both Russia and the US face similar terrorist threats it would be beneficial to both countries to at least share information regarding groups such as ISIS. Russia doesn't receive any aid currently (at least that i'm aware of)

    In a similar vein, business ties with Russia are just another route for it to get it's claws into our country. All US businesses should immediately divest themselves of any holdings or interests in and stop all trade with Russia. Those that refuse should be seen as collaborators and be nationalized.
    Pretty sure nationalization would be illegal and would make the US look bad to other countries who do invest money here. No need for Neo-McCarthyism.

    Stop treating Russia like a legitimate state when it is in fact a criminal enterprise. Freeze the money and seize the properties Putin and his cronies have stashed in the West.

    -Remove Russia from the G-20.

    -Kick Russia out of the SWIFT system, denying Russian banks access to international monetary transfers.

    -Designate Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, just like North Korea, which also used a nerve agent for an assassination abroad.

    -Immediately offer official recognition and aid to any groups that wish to break away from Russia to form their own state.

    -Arm the Ukrainians so that they can shove the Russians off their territory.

    -Constantly work to fortify NATO's eastern front. Induct Ukraine and as many other former Russian satellites as possible into NATO, and provide them with nuclear weapons to keep the Russians out.

    -Work for regime change in Russia.
    I'll answer this point by point.

    1. US has seized assets already. Putin and his cronies don't keep their money or assets in the West.

    2. Russia can survive not being in the G-20

    3. Russia is developing its own system to mitigate that.

    4. Russia doesn't sponsor any terrorists.

    5. Thats dumb and would mainly involve funding jihadists since they are they only group seeking independence.

    6. The US already does.

    7. Belarus won't join NATO nor Moldova. NATO treaty law forbids inviting countries in the group who have territorial disputes which Ukraine has. Everyone else that's left is in NATO. The NPT treaty prevents the US from handing out nuclear weapons. It is a bad idea and against the current interests of the US to stop nuclear weapons from spreading.

    8. The US has tried. Its not working.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 04, 2020 at 06:38 PM.

  11. #411

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    At this stage I would give Biden/Trump a 50/50 chance of winning. There are enough soft minded people out there willing to vote for Biden because Muh Biden is the Anti-Trump Muh Russia issue. The MSM has done an impeccable job running cover for democrats this year, and even though they have been completely discredited over the past year, there are more than enough disengaged but morally superiors out there to just cast a vote for Mr. Blonde Leg Hair.

  12. #412

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The argument isn't really over whether the bounty story is believable, its about whether it's verifiable and what, if anything, the president knew about it. Either way, there's a tiresome (and at this stage predictable) irony in the same people who've spent the last four years characterizing Trump as unhinged, impulsive and treacherous now agitating for him to pursue a policy of military escalation.
    Thats... dumb

    ftfy;
    The argument isn't really over whether Russia was paying bounties on U.S. soldiers. What matters is if we believe they were, and if the president knew about it. Either way, there's a tiresome (and factually demonstrable) record of the sitting president withdrawing the U.S. from its global role to the benefit of both Russia & China most obviously ( & North Korea); while his unhinged, impulsive, and treacherous behavior has agitated the rule of law and the fabric of civil society in the U.S..


    Even if the information proves ultimately false - and hasn't and likely isn't, there's no excuse of the president to not know what the *** is going on. How does "Well he didn't know", excuse him, of anything - it's his job to know. A failure within the chain of command, his briefings, or his basic ability to read them is squarely on his shoulders by the very fact of his being president.
    -
    This is MO for Russia. Another day in the office. My god there's such an undeniable trail of money from the Trump businesses & campaign and Russia alone that's so laughably beyond the pale of what's acceptable. But of course, nevermind Trump never released his tax returns and the Supreme Court continues to punt the question of whether to turn them over. Try as I might, I see no way in which the country has actually benefitted from Trump. The whole thing is very frustrating, to put it generously

  13. #413

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guy With No Imagination View Post
    Thats... dumb

    ftfy;
    The argument isn't really over whether Russia was paying bounties on U.S. soldiers. What matters is if we believe they were, and if the president knew about it. Either way, there's a tiresome (and factually demonstrable) record of the sitting president withdrawing the U.S. from its global role to the benefit of both Russia & China most obviously ( & North Korea); while his unhinged, impulsive, and treacherous behavior has agitated the rule of law and the fabric of civil society in the U.S..
    On the issue of the Russian bounties, as in all things, Trump's supporters have retreated into wishful thinking. If something makes them feel bad, such as polls showing Biden ahead of Trump by double digits or reliable reports that Russia was paying bounties on our soldiers and Trump being to cowed by Putin to even speak up, it must be fake news. If something makes them feel good, such as Trump telling them they are oppressed victims or a million people were going to show up for the Tulsa rally, it must be true. Other concerns, such as evidence and logic, simply do not rank.

    When you are outright denying reality for a fantasy world, you can no longer form an objective assessment of the situation at hand and have already lost.

  14. #414

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    T
    -Designate Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, just like North Korea, which also used a nerve agent for an assassination abroad.
    LMAO reality check, dude, it's you who funded Jihadists to topple Assad in Syria, it's you who destroyed Iraq and made it a springboard for ISIS to begin with, it's you who destroyed Libya and turned it into another training ground for terrorists, just as Afghanistan has been a source of Islamist mercenaries under you control, not to mention that all this has been and is still being funded by your allies, the Saudis and Qatar. Not Russia.

    It's really fascinating from an outsider's perspective that although you have wrought all this senseless destruction, ruined half a dozen countries and destabilized even more via stupid CIA-backed coups like in Ukraine, you think you are the good guys, while the Russians, who are always the ones reacting, always repelling incursions into their sphere of influence, are the bad ones. Because they should sit back and take it for some reason? Did you watch Rocky a lot as kid? But the most amazing thing is that although these endless wars and pointless interventions have come at a terrible economic cost to your own country, which incurred trillions of debt to the Chinese in the process, at significant loss of life to your military (long before the Russians started posting bounties) AND WITH NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT AFTER 20 YEARS, you are still falling for the narrative of the same class of people that orchestrated this colossal waste of political, economic and human capital; you are still rallying to wave flags for Clintog type of puppets, because you read in the NYT that the Russians hijacked your elections in 2016, whereas WaPo used to inform you that Obongo delivered a powerful speech about human rights - before bombing his 7nth country.

    Don't worry about the Russians, your country has already been hijacked. Not by Putin, by the people that Epstein worked for. Your military has long existed merely to provide the muscle for their extractive operations abroad and you exist to foot the bill. Trump is the only one trying to extricate you from this position.
    "Blessed is he who learns how to engage in inquiry, with no impulse to hurt his countrymen or to pursue wrongful actions, but perceives the order of the immortal and ageless nature, how it is structured."
    Euripides

    "This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which avails us nothing and which man should not wish to learn."
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  15. #415
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/rapp...n-musk-2257322

    Guys, Guyyyys... anyone else thinks that Kanye West would actually make a better PotUS than either Biden or Trump? Or it's only me and Elon Musk?
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  16. #416

    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/rapp...n-musk-2257322

    Guys, Guyyyys... anyone else thinks that Kanye West would actually make a better PotUS than either Biden or Trump? Or it's only me and Elon Musk?
    A Czech article even mentioned a hilarious conspiracy theory that it's a plot to take black votes away from Biden. But he's definitely not the one I had in mind when I wrote that USA need a third option.

  17. #417
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...160041132.html

    Being divisive won't help him win in November.

  18. #418
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    First Lady Kim Kardashian.
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  19. #419
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    First Lady Kim Kardashian.
    As far as publicity stunts go, it is fairly amusing. Elon Musk's endorsement and increasingly anti-communist rhetoric adds to the flavour.

  20. #420
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    Default Re: USA elections 2020

    Keeping up with the Kardashians White House edition, a sweet and seemly meme.

    If he actually runs it’ll be a good protest vote, as protests votes go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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