What Is ISLAM?

[Common Soldier]

A couple of points to clarify as well.

Jihad:

Jihad doesn't neccessarily mean war. The word mean struggle, and it can refer to just an inner struggle, like a struggle with addiction. But Jihad can and frequently does mean a physical struggle such as war or other violent act. A violent phsical stuggle again non Muzlims can and often is what is.meant by jihad, but not always. The Koran clearly does use this second , violent meaning of the word at times but sometimes it just means inner struggle. Koran says in 4:95 that Allah has higher regard for Muslims who strive than those who sit at home, and Koran 2:216-217 states "Fighting is prescribed for ye, and ye dislike it. But it is possible ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing that is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know." From the context we know it refers to physical fighting, not a spirtual struggle.

Sharia:

Sharia technically means just guidance. This "guidance" sharia is derived from the Koran, the Hadiths, consensus of Muslims, and reasoning by analogy from other practices. Since many of the verses and practices dictated by the Koran and explanations and interpretations by thd Hadiths are considered bias and bigoted by modern standards and sensibilities, laws and legal systems base on sharia are intoleranr and not meeting morldern standandards of decency. The Koran dictates that women inherit less than their brothers, and it takes.2 women equal the legal testimony of.one man.

Hadiths historically regarded as authentic by Muslims have specified death for those who leave Islam and death or other severe penalties against those who commit blasphemy or insult Islam or Muhammad. Merely challenging the truth of Islam or questioning the truth or accuracy of the Koran could be considered to be insulting Islam or being guilty of apostacy. The Egyptian Quranic scholar Nasr Abu Zayd was declared an apostate because.of his views on ths Koran, and the courts dissolved his marriage, because non Muslim men are not allowed to marry Muslim women per sharia. While there may be Muslims with a more liberal understanding of Sharia, todate countries that have implemented sharia as the basis of their legal system have all fared poorly in issues of human rights and religious freedom.

Non Muslims status under Islam:

Islam allows restricted rights for some non Muslims, but throughout history and in current practice non Muslims are not treated as full equals ro Muslims, and have restrictions imposed on thrm that are not imposed on Muslims. In almost all countries which Islam dominates, non Muslim men cannot marry Muslim women, but Muslim men can marry non Muslims, for example, and it typically took the testimony of 2 non-muslims to equal that of one Muslim. While Islam freely allows non-Muslims to convert to Islam, it does not allow Muslims to convert to other religions or otherwise leave Islam, apostacy from Islam being punished by death or penalties. The Koran frequently expresses negative views of Kafirs (unbelievers, i.e .non-Muslims) . Koran 4:101 warns Muslims that unbelievers are always the enemy of Muslims, for example.

[Common Soldier]

One further thing I forgot to include. There are 6 basic beliefs most Muslim adhere to.

1. Oneness of God. Muslims reject the Christian idea of the trinity. This God is the same one as in the Old and New Testsment.

2. Belief in the Angels of God. These angels are unseen beings who carry out God's will.

3. Belief in the Books of God - Muslims believe that these books were are divinely revealed by God: The Bible ( Torah, evealed to Moses; the Psalms, revealed to David; the Scrolls, revealed to Abraham; the Gospel, revealed to Jesus) and the Koran, revealed to Muhammad. Muslim believe that the Koran is uncorrupted and the same as it was first given to Muhammad. If any of the other books differ from what the Koran says, Muslims assert those other books must be corrupted in whatever part contradicts the Koran, and since the Bible contradict the Koran, Muslims insist the Bible we have has been corrupted, and is not the same as was initially revealed whenever it does not agree with the Koran.

4. Belief in the Prophets ( sometimes called Messengers) of God: Muslim believe most of the Old Testament prophets were genuine prophets, as was Adam and Noah, and also Jesus was a prophet. However Muslims believe Muhammad was the seal of the prophets (essential last major prophet) and the greatest prophet of God. Most Muslims believe Muhammad is the last prophet and there will be no more prophets period, but the small Muslim sect Ahmaddiyyas believe their can prophets after Muhammad, but these prophets will not recieve divine revelation like Muhammad, and the Koran will be the last divine revelation. Unlike the other prophets, Muhammad performed no miracles except producing the Koran, which Muslims regard as a miracle.

5. Belief in the Day of Judgement : Muslims believe in a day of judgment where all people both dead and alive, which be judged, and rewarded or punished accordingly for their actions.

6. Belief in Divine Decree - essentially, everything proceeds as God wills and what happened in your lifr is preordained. Since a person doesn't know what will happen, free will is not effected.


One final thing: Islam operates on the 99:1 rule, which is if out of a 100 listeners, 99 uquestioning accept what they are told, the 99 can silence the one person who does questions what is said through pressure, ridicule, intimidation, abuse and violence. We can see evidence of its practice in the accounts of Muhammad's life, such as in the killing of the dancing girl Fartana. Another dancing girl Quraybah who mocked Muhammad saved her life by converting to Islam. Such tactics are still used by Muslims today. The death threat fatwas against author Salman Rushdie for writing Satanic Verses was supported by Muslims around the world, incl uding Muslim convert Yusif Islam (formerly Cat Stevens). Dutch film maker Theo Van Gogh was killed because he made a film showig a Muslim woman who was forced into marriage, abused by her husband and raped by her uncle.

The 99:1 rule explains how popular Muslim appologists like Yusuf Estes can say completely absurd things outright lie without being challenged by his Muslim listeners. Yusuf Estes told his Muzlim listeners that the Catholic Church was founded in Rome by Alexander the Great 300 years before Jesus, and asserted that all this could be found on the Catholic website. None of Estes listeners challenged him on these lies. You can see him saying these things on this video: http://en.protothema.gr/alexander-th...m-sheik-video/.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing is not unique. In the attached video it shows how a popular Muslim youtube channel post video that made a claim thst was shown to be false, yet kept it up because they were unconcerned that their Muslim viewers who actual take the slight effort to fact check the claims: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mMVKnxmE3KI. Anyone who actually read the verse in the Bible knows the Muslim channel was being dishonest.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I disagree with the assertion Islam itself is rotten to the core. It just so happens that the religion itself existed in countries that have been slower to adapt to the modern era, mainly due to the terrible situations they were put in by colonialism and a failure to adapt to a changing world. The issue is more with the society itself (which has dealt with a fair share of ed up circumstances to create it) that shapes the interpretation of the religion than the religion shaping the society. I have many Muslim friends here in America who outside of basically Ramadan treat religion exactly the same way us mostly barely-practicing Christians do, following the common sense rules of the religion but not the more antiquated and medieval practices. In fact, at times I even sort of envy the greater sense of community my friends had due to their shared roles at outsiders in a mostly christian society. I'm not religious but maybe this sense of a greater community was one aspect of the muslim community here that I could really respect and didn't really see among Christians.

I just think that if you took Christianity and Islam and swapped all their religious tenets, and made Muslims have the history of European Christendom while giving a religion exactly the same as Christianity to Arabia and the Middle East, with everything that occurred after being exactly the same, you'd see the religion that is a Christianity analogue having the same problems to adapt to the modern era and sensibilities as well. Christianity has all the same problems in its teachings as Islam, its just that we as a society have progressed to the point where we've chosen to ignore the more problematic bits. The circumstances faced by Islamic regions, some enforced by the west, has resulted in many areas being slower to adapt and keeping archaic ed up rules. Thing is, a lot of those regimes are being propped up by the west for political purposes, and are keeping muslim countries from progressing like they should. I'd be shocked if the rate of what I see as religious extremism among American-born Muslims was much if any higher than among Christian-born Americans. So, its a social issue in these countries rather than a literal flaw with the religion itself. By that logic basically all the most popular modern religions are inherently problematic if you're basing your judgement on the writings with centuries old books.

[Common Soldier]

I disagree with the assertion Islam itself is rotten to the core. It just so happens that the religion itself existed in countries that have been slower to adapt to the modern era, mainly due to the terrible situations they were put in by colonialism and a failure to adapt to a changing world. The issue is more with the society itself (which has dealt with a fair share of ed up circumstances to create it) that shapes the interpretation of the religion than the religion shaping the society. I have many Muslim friends here in America who outside of basically Ramadan treat religion exactly the same way us mostly barely-practicing Christians do, following the common sense rules of the religion but not the more antiquated and medieval practices. In fact, at times I even sort of envy the greater sense of community my friends had due to their shared roles at outsiders in a mostly christian society. I'm not religious but maybe this sense of a greater community was one aspect of the muslim community here that I could really respect and didn't really see among Christians.

I agree that a religion is whatever its followers can choose to make of it, and many members of Islam are more culturally Muslim than religious. And most Muslims in the West are no more violent than anyone else. A person can and most western Muslims do choose to interpret the Koran and the Muslim literature in a peaceful fashion. But that does not mean there are not elements in traditional core values.of Islam thst do have a tendency to promote violence and bigotry toward non Muslims. And while colonialism played a role, the Islamic worl had major problems that had nothing to do with colonialism.

1. For centuries after the printing press was invemted, the Islamic world failed adopt it largely due to religious opposition, adopting it only in the 19 century, 400 years after it was invented. When the Ottoman empire built a modern observatory, it was force to close after a few years due to Muslim religious opposition.

2. Muslim reigious opposition to interest money lending and other modern banking and financial methods hindered economic growth in the Islamic world

3. Treatment of non-Muslim minorities also had a negative impact. Islamic teachings in the hadiths and certain verses in the Koran place non-Muslims in a subordinate status in society. Non-Muslim men cannot marry Muslim women, but Muslim men csn marry whom they please. In some schools of Sharia law non-Muslims can't testify. Colonialism didn't help but it isn't responsible for death penalties for those who leave Islam. Countries lime Pakistan are.less tolerant.of.religious minorities tody than under colonialism. It was Islamic religion that was reaponsible.


Note, parts of the Middle East didn't fall under European rule until the 19th century, and a lot of it not until the Ottoman Empire fell after WW2. The actual amount of time Muslims fell under European rule was short, in most.cases only around a centuey or less, and by the 19th century Islamic word was well behind.

I just think that if you took Christianity and Islam and swapped all their religious tenets, and made Muslims have the history of European Christendom while giving a religion exactly the same as Christianity to Arabia and the Middle East, with everything that occurred after being exactly the same, you'd see the religion that is a Christianity analogue having the same problems to adapt to the modern era and sensibilities as well. Christianity has all the same problems in its teachings as Islam, its just that we as a society have progressed to the point where we've chosen to ignore the more problematic bits. The circumstances faced by Islamic regions, some enforced by the west, has resulted in many areas being slower to adapt and keeping archaic ed up rules. Thing is, a lot of those regimes are being propped up by the west for political purposes, and are keeping muslim countries from progressing like they should. I'd be shocked if the rate of what I see as religious extremism among American-born Muslims was much if any higher than among Christian-born Americans. So, its a social issue in these countries rather than a literal flaw with the religion itself. By that logic basically all the most popular modern religions are inherently problematic if you're basing your judgement on the writings with centuries old books.

Then you haven't paid atrention to the actual news of violence by Muslims if you would be shocked by extemism by native Muslims. The Muslim responsible for the Fort Hood shootigs was a native born Muslim. The Muslim responsible for the Orlando Night Club shooting was US born. Given their small percentage of the US population, they are killig at far above the US average.


And if you could swap places between Christianity and Islam I still think Islam would be more violent. Islamic opposition to the. printing press was religiously based not geographically based. Christianity doesn't have religious laws specifying stoning adulters, Islam does and it still the law in some countries today. Both Judaism and Christianity arose in the Middle East, same as Islam. And most of the Muslim countries in the Mideast used to be Christian until they were conquered by Islam. But your contention is something we csn never prove one way or other. I would like to point out that the first Jews like Abraham were much like the Arabs, yet Judaism isn't as violent as Islam today. For one, look at the actions of their respective founders. If you imitated Jesus in your actions, you would be a decent human being. If you did the same things as Muhammad, you would be a terrorist.


You might want to review this video by a fair minded atheists about Islam. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dCsEXeYM3E

[Common Soldier]

I disagree with the assertion Islam itself is rotten to the core. It just so happens that the religion itself existed in countries that have been slower to adapt to the modern era, mainly due to the terrible situations they were put in by colonialism and a failure to adapt to a changing world.n

I want to go into more depth in what you said. I agree that it would be incorrect to say Islam is "rotten to the core", since it implies religions have meaning and value independently of the meaning and values people ascribe to them. You could have a religion that had a sacred book that was full of explicit commands to kill and torture, yet live the most peaceful lives by interrpetating what the book says allegorically, and when it says to kill, they could say "well that really means to kill their bad ideas, not literally". Still, the plain simple meaning of the text of the book is not unlikely fo win out as some try follow the letter of the text rather than an interpretation that seems to go against what the text actually seems to say.

But the reason that Islamic societies were in terrible situations in the first place might have been bexause Islam contributed to the failure of the societies to adapt to a changing world, and colonialism might have merely been a symptom rather than a cause. As I said, Islamic societies failed to adopt printing for centuries, and religious pressure seems to have played a role. Religious opposition to interest and money lending delayed the development of financial institutions in thd Islamic world. Although opposed initially, Christians overcame their opposition to lending long ago.

I have many Muslim friends here in America who outside of basically Ramadan treat religion exactly the same way us mostly barely-practicing Christians do, following the common sense rules of the religion but not the more antiquated and medieval practices. In fact, at times I even sort of envy the greater sense of community my friends had due to their shared roles at outsiders in a mostly christian society. I'm not religious but maybe this sense of a greater community was one aspect of the muslim community here that I could really respect and didn't really see among Christians.

That many people living under an ideology are decent wonderdul human beings does not mean the ideology does not have fundamental problems. A Nazi John Rabe is remembered for working to save thousands of lives during thr Japanese massacres in Nanking during WW2. And the Nazis were the first to implement anti-smoking campaigns. Nazism was still a morally bankrupt ixeology. Many Nazis said their trials they were only following orders, and outside of their actions of killing a lot of men, women.and children as directed lived normal lives. Many neighbors of fugitive Nazinwar criminals.were surprised to learn of their identity.

Also, people in times of crisis often turn to their native religion after being rather different before. But while a Buddhist, or Christian who becomes religious might become a monk, a formerly not very religious Muslim can become a terrorist. A case in point is the Boston Marathon bomber, who did not become a terrorist until after he became religiouslly active. They became terrorist because of islamic teachings not despite of them.

I just think that if you took Christianity and Islam and swapped all their religious tenets, and made Muslims have the history of European Christendom while giving a religion exactly the same as Christianity to Arabia and the Middle East, with everything that occurred after being exactly the same, you'd see the religion that is a Christianity analogue having the same problems to adapt to the modern era and sensibilities as well.

You operate under a false belief that religion si completely shaped by its local society. While religion is shaped by its local culture, a religion can shape its culture. In the society that Christianity arose, divorce was easy. It was under Christianity that divorce became rare, and that you married one leraon for life that became the norm, not the exception. Under Islam, Henry VIII did not need to divorce his first wife he could have just taken another wife. There would have been no need to split with the Church.

~~
. Christianity has all the same problems in its teaching as Islam,

Ah, no. Problematic Islamic rules and practices stem from the Quran and Hadiths because they specify specific practices and guidelines Muslims are to adhere to. Muslims practice stoning of adultrry because that is the penalty the hadiths prescribed for adultery, and the Quran did as well until a sheep came and ate the verses (see https://quranx.com/Hadith/IbnMajah/D...9/Hadith-1944/).

In contrast, rhe Bible does not prescribe specific penalties that Christians need to follow. It is made clear in the New Testament Christians do.not have to obey the specific laws and penalties in the Old Testament, only the moral principles. Because the Islam specific actions based on books written written many centuries ago, the actions may be woefully out of date today. Since Christianity is based on principles, not specific actions, it does not run into the same problem. Adultey is wrong, but how or if it is to be punished is left up to the society, whether to be mere social disapproval or fines ormother penalties, to decide. It gives Christianity a flexibility Islam lacks..

Since Islam's laws are base on the Quran, which is regarded as the perfect, completely preserved words of Allah himself, it is much harder to change them. A principle may be valid long after the specific rule it generated is not.

its just that we as a society have progressed

And the reason we have progressed in the West is that we are not dominated by religion that retards progress. Where would the West without the printing press? And yet Islam delayed the Muslim world from adopting it for centuries.

Thing is, a lot of those regimes are being propped up by the west for political purposes, and are keeping muslim countries from progressing like they should.

The worst offenders in Islam, counties like Iran and ISIS are not being propped up by the West. Much, perhaps most of the causes for lack of progress in Muslims counteies stem from internal factors, not the actions of outsider.

I'd be shocked if the rate of what I see as religious extremism among American-born Muslims was much if any higher than among Christian-born Americans.

Be shocked. While Muslims only make up 1.1% of the US population, Muslims account for 6% of the terrorist acts in the US, meaning that Muslims commit terrorist acts as 6 times the rate of other groups. As I mentioned before, the Orlando Night Club shooter was a native born Muslim as the Fort Hood shooter.

So, its a social issue in these countries rather than a literal flaw with the religion itself.

But it is the religion that shaped those countries. Iran has stoning for adultery because of its interpretation of Islam and long established writings like Bukhari show stoning was being practiced by Muhammad and it being in the Quran before the verse was eaten by a sheep.

By that logic basically all the most popular modern religions are inherently problematic if you're basing your judgement on the writings with centuries old books.

Not true. Islamic has unique inherent problems that other modern popular religions do not have. Among these elements are

1. The example of a founder that committed mass murder, robbery, torture, and rape. The founders of the other religions did not.do that

A. Muhammad married a 6 year old girl and had sex with her when she was 9. Buddha did not do that nor Jesus nor the founder of any other religion I know of. Here is a video by a skeptic that discusses https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ59DcIZCEs

B. Muhammad massacre all the men of the Jewish village of Banu Qurayza and enslaved all the women and children

C. Muhammad had Kinan b. al-Rabi tortured to obtain treasure than killed. (See Ibn Ishaq's "The Life of Muhammad" translated by A. Guilliame, Oxford Press pg 515) Buddha and Jesus never did things like these.

And lots more killigs. Here is a link for a list of killings sanctioned by Muhammad. https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_K...ed_by_Muhammad. As you can see that Muhammad provides a lot worse role that ths leaders of other religions.


2. The Quran has lots of violent commands to its followers and commands that specify inferior treatment to women and non-Muslims. Other religions sacred scriptures also have violent passages, but there are fundamental differences with the Quran that make it worse:

- The Quran is regarded by Muslims as being ucorrupted and completely preserved word of God, with Muslims believing every syllable coming from God. Since every word came from Allah, and it has perfectly preserved, it is difficult for anyone to question the accuracy of the Quran or suggest it is error. While at one time Christians had a similar view of the Bible, many do not nowdays, and the Christian view of the Bible being "inspire" leaves more wriggle room to admit error than the Muslim verbatim concept of ths Quran.

- The Quran is full of glaring errors, such as its assertion that Jews believe their propher Ezra was the Son of God (Surah 9:30) and that the Bible talks about Muhammad (it doesn't, unless you accept Muhammad is one of the false prophet the Bible warns its readers about.) Because of the Muslim believe the Quran is perfect, they cannot admit it is mistaken in anything, and thus spend a lot of effort and mental gymnastics, and flat out lies that the Quran isn't wrong. For example, because the Quran says the Bible mentions Muhammad, Muslims pull verses, change words themselves, and omit words to change the meaning of the verse in a desperate atrempt to prove the Bible mentions Muhammad. Here is a link to that discusses the Muslim pathetic attempts and discusses an example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mMVKnxmE3KI

- The Quran is full of hostility toward others. For example, an analysis reveals that negative statements about the Jews comprise 6.7% of the Quran, and when you include the hadiths and Siras, about 9% of core Islamic writing has negative statements against the Jews, more than Mein Kampf, which only 7% of it is devoted to negative comments on Jews. (Lectures on the Foundation of Islam, Bill Warner, page 10). At the beginning of the Quran, after a few verses the Quran launches into a rant against others for about the next half page, calling them fools and diseased, ane promising all kinds of punishments toward them. The specifics of exactly what they guilty of is not mentioned. (The Bible also is full of criticisms of others, but as early in the writings as a he Quran.)

- The Quran is haphazardly organized, arranged by neither chronologically or topic. It lacks internal context, making it hard to understand at times without sources outside of the Quran (hadiths, Siras).

3. Islam has Sharia law and that was in large part has specific laws derived from the Quran and Hadiths. The Quran.specifies that women inherit less than their brothers. Buddhism, Christianity, and other religions don't have a similar codified body of rules and regulations thst apply to society's criminal and civil law the way Sharia does in Islamic countries.

[wanderwegger]

Never read the Old Testament. Lots of laws.

[Common Soldier]

Never read the Old Testament. Lots of laws.

If you haven't read the Old Testament, then you don't know what is in it. Laws actually account for only a small fraction of the Old Testament.


You really should not be commenting on books you admit not having read.

[basics]

Islam is a religion of two speaks. You can't murder but you can. You can't rape but you can. You can't steal but you can. It appeals to the baser instinct of men whereby women are subjected and the promise of 72 virgins is what awaits men but no mention of what awaits women in this paradise. Just think 1 billion Muslim men in paradise with 72 billion virgins the only problem there being what happens when all the virgins become non-virgins? I mean 72 virgins could easily lose their virginity in less than 72 days so what then ? No it's a ridiculous religion that has fed off Christianity and Judaism yet has no bearing whatsoever on either.

[wanderwegger]

Christianity is a religion of two speaks. You can't murder but you can. You can't rape but you can. You can't steal but you can. It appeals to the baser instinct of men whereby women are subjected and the promise of eternal life of plenty and overabundance with the most loving being in the universe who created you and everything including the bad things but is not accountable for the bad things. No it's a ridiculous religion that has fed off Sumerianism and Judaism and so many other religions.

Question for basics; you are real invested in the bible heavy protestant version of Christianity you have had interpreted for you as being the sole rightful Christianity. Why would you focus so much on the 72 virgins thing, something any non idiot knows isn't in the Quran? Or did you not know that?

[Common Soldier]

No it's a ridiculous religion that has fed off Sumerianism and Judaism and so many other religions.

Christianity did not feed off the Sumer religion, which was dead by the time.Christianity arose, and the language of Sumerians had been forgotten. It did arise out of Judaism, or rather it arose out of the Jewish religion of 1st century AD Palestine. The "Judaism" of today is very different from the 1st century Jewish religion, almost as different as Christianity is. 1st century Jewish religion was very diverse, and Christianity is one of thr few branches 1st century Jewish religion to survive, modern Rabbinic Judaism being the other main branch. (Some.smaller branches like Mandeans and Samaritans also.survive today as well).

Thr central character od Jesus is unique though, and despite many claims otherwise was not borrowed from others. No other ancient religion claimed its founder lived in real recent historic times and interacted eith real historical figures.

Question for basics; you are real invested in the bible heavy protestant version of Christianity you have had interpreted for you as being the sole rightful Christianity. Why would you focus so much on the 72 virgins thing, something any non idiot knows isn't in the Quran? Or did you not know that?

As so often, you are wromg. Most people do not know the 72 virgins are not found in the Koran. Most people are ignorant of Islam and would not know whether the 72 virgins are mentioned in Koran or not.

Further, the 72 virgins are mention in the Hadiths, which for most Muslims are considered authority, as autborattive as many Christians consider the bible. Many fundamental and essential Muslim practices are found only in the hadiths.

For example, of the 5 Pillars of Islam, 3 are not found in the Koran. The five daily praywrs are not specified in thr Koran, thr Koran.does not specific a fasting in any specic month nor thst it has to be from sun up to sun down, nor are Muslims commanded to perform a pilgrimage to least once in their life by the Korsn. Nor is circumcism for Muslims commanded anywhere in the Koran.


Finally, this tbread is about Islam, so why are you questioning Basic about discussing an Islam belief? Tbis is exactly the place Basic should be discussing the 72 virgins.

[basics]

wanderwegger,

Where does it say in the Bible that a Christian can do any of these things? As for my belief it is such that the Bible is quite clear that God is sovereign over all things, everything. The reason is quite simple in that I once was as silly about God as you are until the evening He put me on my knees and converted me. Since that day I have experienced first and second hand the wonderful love that God has not just for me but for all His elect. Some of these I have written of on these threads and have received some kindness for them but in most cases I get deluged with all sorts of names and accusations and these come mostly from people who were once Roman Catholic yet are devout anti God now. Islam is nothing akin to Christianity in any aspect.

[wanderwegger]

Are you consistently trolling me Common or is your confusion real?

Example, the never read the old testament was response to be read, have you never read the old testament, it has a lot of laws. Some idiotic post said that Islam had all these laws pretending the bible doesn't.

[Common Soldier]

Are you consistently trolling me Common or is your confusion real?

You one doig all thr trolling and are confused. You have not addressed any of the points I raised.

Example, the never read the old testament was response to be read, have you never read the old testament, it has a lot of laws. Some idiotic post said that Islam had all these laws pretending the bible doesn't.

You didn't just say the Old Testament had a lot of laws, you said it was mostly laws, which is not true. You now reying to change your story, but saying the Old Testamenr was mostly laws is not the same thing as you are now saying. The Old Testament is a much longer book than the Koran, so laws make up a smaller percentage of the Old Testament than they do in the Koran. But when it comes fo the New Testament which is the length of Koran, the New Testsment has much fewer laws.

There is another point - the laws of the Koran are binding on Muslims and Muslims are expected to follow them, while Christians are not expected to follow most of the laws of the Old Testmants. The Koran has specific rules for inheritance which asign smaller inheriances to daughters, ans many Muslims regard Islam as superior because it had these specific rules of inheritances that gave smaller shares women. Muslims havd a number of abritrary dietary and food.restrictions that Christians do not have. Judaism might havs similar restrictions, but Judaism is not an universal religion like Islam intended for the whole world. Compared ro Christianity and other world religions like Buddhism, Islam.is full of rules Muslimss must follow. Circumcism, praying 5 times a day, having to fast in a certsin month of thd year and specific details how to fast, mandatory to go on pilgrimages to.a specific place, and so on. You cannot deny Muslims have specific rules fo follow.

[wanderwegger]

You didn't just say the Old Testament had a lot of laws, you said it was mostly laws, which is not true.

Show me where I said this. And when you can't admit you are wrong like when you finally admitted systemic racism exists. The constant refrain telling posters who have crushed your idiotic, juvenile, simplistic and worst of all jingoistic statements "you have failed to address any of points" might just be the silliest thing anyone ever posts on this site. Which is saying something.

[basics]

wanderwegger,

As a seminary expert one would expect you of all people to grasp the need of better explanations of why Islam is not an Abrahamic religion. Tell me where a born again Christian has strapped explosives to him or herself to please God by blowing up anyone? But then you don't know what it is to be born again of the Spirit of God so no doubt you'll come up with some answer because you have to.

[wanderwegger]

Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Born again christians have shot a doctor in the back of the head during a church service. Has a muslim even done that. Not a seminary expert whatever that is except if you were to compare me to someone like you.

wanderwegger,

As a seminary expert one would expect you of all people to grasp the need of better explanations of why Islam is not an Abrahamic religion. Tell me where a born again Christian has strapped explosives to him or herself to please God by blowing up anyone? But then you don't know what it is to be born again of the Spirit of God so no doubt you'll come up with some answer because you have to.

[Common Soldier]

Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Born again christians have shot a doctor in the back of the head during a church service. Has a muslim even done that.

Muslims have done fsr worse, such as a coordinated attack by several Muslims on churches on Christan's most holiest day thst killed 267 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019...aster_bombings

And there were also attacks on mosques as well https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-su...15-people/#app https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ath-toll-rises


267, 15, 69 are a lot more than one person in any world, it is elementary math.

[basics]

wanderwegger,

Once again, Islam is not an Abrahamic religion, why? Because the promises of God to Abraham and Sarah did not apply to Ishmael and his mother Hagar. The promise was that the Messiah that Judaism awaited would come by Sarah's son Isaac which was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Because Ishmael bullied Isaac continually he and his mother were cast out yet God having mercy promised that he would be the father of another nation, nothing to do with Judaism or Christianity. Islam does not believe that Jesus Christ is Messias, yet Jesus' claim to the throne of David is undeniable. Both Joseph and Mary had that lineage, Mary's being stronger than Joseph's. So, when Jesus was nailed to that cross the inscrition above Him was quite correct in that He was indeed the King of the Jews. Islam denies this and doesn't even make a case for any of its adherents to be connected to Israel in any shape or form and that is why it is not an Abrahamic religion.

As for your accusation regarding born again believers shooting someone in the back of their head, to that I would confirm they were never born again at all.

[Common Soldier]

The constant refrain telling posters who have crushed your idiotic, juvenile, simplistic and worst of all jingoistic statements "you have failed to address any of points" might just be the silliest thing anyone ever posts on this site. Which is saying something.

You have not answeered me.

You claimed claimed the hadith were base on Christian thinkers, so give an example of a hadith base on the works of Christian thinkers. Show me the Christian thnker who advocated sex with 9 years old girls. You said that hadiths were derived from Christian and Jewish thinkers so you should be able to provide the example. Failure to answer will be adnmission you are wrong.

[wanderwegger]

I did. You did not accept it. Different things. Is your contention the hadiths are older than the Christian texts? Because you do know what comes after never comes before what comes before right?