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Thread: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

  1. #1

    Default COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    I hoped that more twcenter members would post this when this was reported but under cover of the COVID-19 pandemic, the USG is seeking emergency powers not unlike the Enabling Act that turned Weimar Germany into Nazi Germany:

    DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    The Department of Justice has secretly asked Congress for the ability to detain arrested people “indefinitely” in addition to other powers that one expert called “terrifying”
    Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...avirus-970935/

    Not to mention the glaringly transparent race based nature of this administration and its acolytes like Bannon, Pompeo and Navarro who believe they are there to restore an America safe for the existence and future of white people.

    So what do we have in this administration?:

    1) A Manifest Destiny myth in the (predominantly white idea of the) American people
    2) Racial pogroms against minorities, specifically ethnic Chinese and other Asians
    3) A desperate drive towards world war to distract against the revolutionary conditions of current american society- COVID-19 has created the beginnings of a Great Depression 2.0 and the USG will need a foreign scapegoat and a war to jumpstart the economy. Not to mention, American officials believe that they should start a war with China now otherwise, China will become stronger in a matter of years.

  2. #2

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Pretty sure this won't end in fascism, given the resilience of the US political system.
    Besides, even if it did, the US would be in good company, given how the other two biggest countries in the world are already fascist dictatorships, and #4 and #5 are also heading in that direction...

  3. #3
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    It seems like the DOJ has started a conversation with Congress about enabling senior judges to pause ongoing legal proceedings and the statute of limitations while the country is in lock down. Of course there are some concerns about civil liberties, though as the article states, even were the current proposals to make it to Congress they would be voted down by the House.

    The OP's comments about the Enabling Act, racial pogroms and the US's appetite for a third world war are his usual lies; as ever, they should be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Pretty sure this won't end in fascism, given the resilience of the US political system.
    Besides, even if it did, the US would be in good company, given how the other two biggest countries in the world are already fascist dictatorships, and #4 and #5 are also heading in that direction...
    Which countries are 4 and 5? India and Germany? Japan maybe?
    Last edited by Cope; March 29, 2020 at 06:38 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Pretty sure this won't end in fascism, given the resilience of the US political system.
    Besides, even if it did, the US would be in good company, given how the other two biggest countries in the world are already fascist dictatorships, and #4 and #5 are also heading in that direction...
    Your faith in the resilience of the US political system is going to be put to the test in the coming months, especially with this black swan COVID-19 event; and i'm sorry to say but the current administration in its bungling of the pandemic is by going to go full third reich as the numbers start to pile up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It seems like the DOJ has started a conversation with Congress about enabling senior judges to pause ongoing legal proceedings and the statute of limitations while the country is in lock down. Of course there are some concerns about civil liberties, though as the article states, even were the current proposals to make it to a vote (unlikely) they would be voted down by the House.

    The OP's comments about the Enabling Act, racial pogroms and the US's appetite for a third world war are his usual lies; as ever, they should be ignored.
    eh? This is like history rhyming or repeating itself, en Enabling Act that crushed German freedoms not unlike what we're seeing from the DOJ and the lockdowns in place, the push to make all monetary transactions electronic and hence doing away with paper money, the increased controls over movements; this for eg
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoff.../#7bb6fda811d3

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    eh? This is like history rhyming or repeating itself, en Enabling Act that crushed German freedoms not unlike what we're seeing from the DOJ and the lockdowns in place, the push to make all monetary transactions electronic and hence doing away with paper money, the increased controls over movements; this for eg
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoff.../#7bb6fda811d3
    In order for the DOJ's proposals to mirror the Enabling Act, they would have to suggest a constitutional amendment which transferred all power from the legislative branch to the executive. And even if such an outrageous suggestion was made, the chance of it being approved by Congress would be zero. So while I would be happy to debate the potential pitfalls (in terms of civil liberties) that the DOJ's proposals present, your comically false appraisal of events indicates that you have no interest in discussing anything in good faith. As usual, you're simply spreading anti-American disinformation.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Pretty sure this won't end in fascism, given the resilience of the US political system.
    Resilience? US politics is extremely polarized atm. How far, really, are both sides from gathering enough popular support for abusing governmental powers to muzzle the opposition? Not too far it seems.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  7. #7

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Which countries are 4 and 5? India and Germany? Japan maybe?
    India and Brazil of course. Despite the local upper class hysteria, Germany isn't even remotely close to fascism, at least not any recognizable traditional variant.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Sure, but I wouldn't really say that Brazil is the 5th biggest (in terms of power) country on earth.

  9. #9

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    In order for the DOJ's proposals to mirror the Enabling Act, they would have to suggest a constitutional amendment which transferred all power from the legislative branch to the executive. And even if such an outrageous suggestion was made, the chance of it being approved by Congress would be zero. So while I would be happy to debate the potential pitfalls (in terms of civil liberties) that the DOJ's proposals present, your comically false appraisal of events indicates that you have no interest in discussing anything in good faith. As usual, you're simply spreading anti-American disinformation.
    You're splitting hairs; what the DOJ wants would stifle american freedoms and ability to protest or act meaningfully against the government especially since new COVID-19 "health statutes" mandate against any public congress at the moment-all the more so now since the USG is even factoring american deaths when it comes to haggling over how many ventilators it will be needing to save its citizens.

    These acts are no different in effect as the Enabling Act, coupled with cultural similarities between 1930s Germany and modern America circa 2017- Present.


    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Resilience? US politics is extremely polarized atm. How far, really, are both sides from gathering enough popular support for abusing governmental powers to muzzle the opposition? Not too far it seems.
    This, not to mention that states are already rebelling and taking a " you, i got mine" attitude when it comes to hoarding masks or quarantines eg Rhode Island refusing and harassing New Yorkers from entering; the rich people of Connecticut pressuring the President not to quarantine them etc

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    You're splitting hairs; what the DOJ wants would stifle american freedoms and ability to protest or act meaningfully against the government especially since new COVID-19 "health statutes" mandate against any public congress at the moment-all the more so now since the USG is even factoring american deaths when it comes to haggling over how many ventilators it will be needing to save its citizens.

    These acts are no different in effect as the Enabling Act, coupled with cultural similarities between 1930s Germany and modern America circa 2017- Present.
    As Ax. said, this is bait. Conversation over.

  11. #11

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    As Ax. said, this is bait. Conversation over.
    Why are you trying to shut down debate over an urgent and difficult topic? The Federal Government is going full fascist, and american society appears at least to be allowing itself to become full fascist.

    Edward Snowden says COVID-19 could give governments invasive new data-collection powers that could last long after the pandemic


    ISOBEL ASHER HAMILTON
    MAR 27, 2020, 11:37 PM





    Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/e....com&r=US&IR=T
    Last edited by Exarch; March 29, 2020 at 07:29 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Fascism only comes about with the approval of the public; as the German public rallied behind the flag, so too are Americans rallying behind the Trumpian American flag for psychological reasons consistent with the breakdown in the social fabric of american society; COVID-19 was just the hair that broke the camel's back:

    The desire to matter and feel significant among Donald Trump supporters is associated with support for hostile and vindictive actions against the president’s political rivals, according to new research published in the journal Political Psychology. In a series of studies conducted immediately before and after the 2016 election in the United States, the researchers examined how the quest for personal significance was related to confrontational intergroup behaviors.
    “Our team studies what motivates people to support and engage in radical political actions. In the past we focused on actions — both peaceful and violent — that were aimed against the political system such as protesting, donating money for a cause, or using politically motivated violence,” explained study author
    Katarzyna Jaśko, an associate professor at Jagiellonian University in Poland.
    Source: https://www.psypost.org/2020/03/new-...tiveness-56280

    It's like Jojo Rabbit; the sheer banality of the creep of fascism is exresssed with nary a shrug.
    Last edited by Exarch; March 29, 2020 at 08:15 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Why are you trying to shut down debate over an urgent and difficult topic? The Federal Government is going full fascist, and american society appears at least to be allowing itself to become full fascist.
    Because there's not really a debate. In the regions where the courts have not shut down for the CV Outbreak the right to a speedy trial is going full speed ahead. In the regions where the courts have shut down they're in limbo, but not because the DoJ is doing anything, just because no lawyer can do anything right now no matter whether they're on the prosecution or defense. What Barr wants to do is suspend such ideas no matter what region of the country and whether the courts are open for business or not. Congress's response? A full throated, bipartisan, frak right off. And make no mistake, for him to do this, he would have to amend the Constitution. Lincoln thought the Civil War was big enough to suspend habeus corpus, and got smacked down by the courts for it. How big of an idea was the Civil War?

    If Barr wants this he requires the minimum cooperation of two thirds of the states. He's certainly not getting Congress. There is, however, a method to end run the Legislature when amending the Constitution. The State Legislatures can call together a Convention. But if you really think the States are going to support this, much less 2/3 of them, I challenge you to give me a list.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Thankfully, even when in power, American statists are too inept to actually implement authoritarian reforms that they dream of. It will most likely result with higher gun sales and more people joining militias and other similar anti-authoritarian groups.

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    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    "COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights"

    so in other words, exactly as the PRC planned. What are the benefits of gaining an authoritarian ally versus the lives of 83,000 Chinese?

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    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    I hoped that more twcenter members would post this when this was reported but under cover of the COVID-19 pandemic, the USG is seeking emergency powers not unlike the Enabling Act that turned Weimar Germany into Nazi Germany:



    Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...avirus-970935/

    Not to mention the glaringly transparent race based nature of this administration and its acolytes like Bannon, Pompeo and Navarro who believe they are there to restore an America safe for the existence and future of white people.

    So what do we have in this administration?:

    1) A Manifest Destiny myth in the (predominantly white idea of the) American people
    2) Racial pogroms against minorities, specifically ethnic Chinese and other Asians
    3) A desperate drive towards world war to distract against the revolutionary conditions of current american society- COVID-19 has created the beginnings of a Great Depression 2.0 and the USG will need a foreign scapegoat and a war to jumpstart the economy. Not to mention, American officials believe that they should start a war with China now otherwise, China will become stronger in a matter of years.
    I guess we're supposed to pretend that this doesn't have anything to do with court houses closing down.

    Meanwhile, guns stores are allowed to remain open because they are considered essential services.

    The scary thing is that it's mostly left-wingers that are buying all those guns. Guns in the hands of Democrat fanatics are dangerous.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    While I am not taken by the source ( Documents reviewed by POLITICO) nor the tail of conspiracy theories by the OP, putting into law that a court can be closed 'in other emergencies' (long live bureaucratic ambiguity!) and including a laundry list of related legal action (resulting in Guantanamo like procedures) to it scares the out of me. Combine that with a president who has no problem to declare a national emergency (other emergencies) when he can't fulfill a campaign promise and you don't have to be paranoid about where that might lead to.

    Crossing my fingers that there is enough of a stumbling block not to turn this into reality.
    Last edited by Gigantus; March 29, 2020 at 11:36 PM.




  18. #18
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Speaking of the suspension of constitutional rights, let's not yet go so far as the loss of habeas corpus.
    I live in Greece and the right to assembly has been curtailed already.

    The operation of most private businesses has been suspended, originally by fiat, but the bulk of the political parties have declared their consent on the propriety of the "measures".
    If one is caught taking a walk they are required to show a pre-prepared document declaring their address, the purpose of them being outside, the route they planned to take and the duration of their walk.
    Or they are fined (€150), so basically it's a soft curfew and we are of course required to keep with our person an official identification document.

    Shops that sell food and drug stores are allowed to operate.
    In order for me to go to work I need such a document, essentially an ad hoc internal passport.
    Traveling abroad has been suspended.

    According to wikipedia Greece has had 1,212 cases of the covid-2019, resulting in 43 deaths and 52 recoveries, so we are not that bad, all things considered.
    Yet, if things do not improve we can expect the "measures" to intensify.

    So we are not talking about something that "may" happen.
    It is happening already.

    The USA, in spite of their beautiful libertarian annotations, have shown very little qualms treating their colored poor like a conquered population and the various police forces are notoriously unaccountable.
    The FBI does not operate with a clean slate either.
    I don't know of anyone employed there being tried for the illegal cointelpro machinations.
    Nor was FBI behavior in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks a paradigm of civil liberties sensitivity.

    Even before the covid-2019 the behavior of the US gov was poor to say the least regarding other civil liberties related issues.
    Julian Assange, for example, is wanted to be extradited so that he can be tried for treason, though he is not and never has been a citizen of the USA and was never under any obligation to be "loyal" to the USA.

    And I could go on and on.
    If any of you take any of the above in isolation, it will not be too hard to dismiss as circumstantial.
    Yet it is the totality of the circumstances that renders our vigilance expedient as the suspension of constitutional rights is no longer in the pale.

  19. #19

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    So we are not talking about something that "may" happen.
    It is happening already.
    Yes, but Greece is a small country that has been struggling with a harmful currency, a larger neighbour that wants to re-colonize them, and numerous other problems for decades. The US of A are still better off in the grand scheme of things.


    The USA, in spite of their beautiful libertarian annotations, have shown very little qualms treating their colored poor like a conquered population
    You do realize this isn't the 1950s, right? Also, "colored people" is a dumb term, even though it might be slightly less racist than "people of color".


    and the various police forces are notoriously unaccountable.
    The FBI does not operate with a clean slate either.
    Yes, but those are different problems. The US are still a very pluralistic society with strong support for individualism and free speech transcending ethnic and religious affiliation. And the current POTUS, just like his predecessors, does not have the unanimous and blind support of the overwhelming majority. If you want to see full-on fascism developing, look at China instead. They're pretty much a textbook fascist state now.

  20. #20

    Default Re: COVID-19 Ushers In American Fascism: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    While I am not taken by the source ( Documents reviewed by POLITICO) nor the tail of conspiracy theories by the OP, putting into law that a court can be closed 'in other emergencies' (long live bureaucratic ambiguity!) and including a laundry list of related legal action (resulting in Guantanamo like procedures) to it scares the out of me.
    The courts wouldn't really let a law stay in effect saying when they can and should be closed. It's only ever been up to them when and they've ever closed. When was the last time they closed? In a fit of irony, given your paranoia, when the Spanish Flu ran over the world.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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