Theistic evolution makes no sense

[basics]

Alhoon,

No, God in His wisdom made all things matured some things appearing older than others yet not really so. Therefore you admit that God can do anything yet you cannot accept that He made all things in six days which is repeated throughout Scripture. If God does not mean what He says we return to the garden scene the very cause of the fall of man to accept what the serpent told Adam and Eve that they would be like gods and they surely wouldn't die. If this is just a matter of interpretation why did we need Jesus Christ to come into the world to pay for the sin of many? Was John talking nonsense when he declared that there was nothing made that was not made by Jesus Christ? If Jesus backed to the hilt the Old Covenant Scriptures why would He do that if He didn't make all things in the six days? If the words " Let there be...." is it not surprising that there is no mention of a big bang billions of years before? Six times all He said was " Let there be," and there was. Now you say that scientifically it was impossible but the thing is that we are not talking of how science made anything but how God Supernatually made everything up and running so that we had a planet filled with life that no other planet that we know of has.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

Was John talking nonsense when he declared that there was nothing made that was not made by Jesus Christ?

And here I thought it was made by God. Which is it?

[Cope]

Jesus Christ is God, friend.

[Akar]

Basics, it has been explained to you by Alhoon that you cannot "fake" deposits of coal etc like you claim. It has been explained to you by me why we haven't discovered life on other planets yet. At what point will you decide to take a step back and examine your own nonsensical arguments and reevaluate where you stand?

[basics]

Basics, it has been explained to you by Alhoon that you cannot "fake" deposits of coal etc like you claim. It has been explained to you by me why we haven't discovered life on other planets yet. At what point will you decide to take a step back and examine your own nonsensical arguments and reevaluate where you stand?

Akar,

Never once did I say that God faked coal or anything else. What I did say was that God by word of mouth spoke and all, everything was there, in place, up and running in the six days of creation. There was nothing else to make other than place a beautiful garden to the East of Eden, a garden I say was a type and shadow of Heaven which man could enjoy bedide the animals in there. So, there was a separation between the garden and the rest of the world but even then there was no enmity between the two until Adam and Eve broke the rules. That remains the same to this day even though the garden was withdrawn as there as those who broke the rules yet were saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and those that weren't or won't be. As God says, unbelievers are blinded by the god of this world who is the same god that persuaded Adam and Eve to not only disobey Him but more importantly disbelieve Him and that's the situation you're in so who needs to re-evaluate where they stand? Old boy it's not me.

[alhoon]

Alhoon,

No, God in His wisdom made all things matured some things appearing older than others yet not really so. Therefore you admit that God can do anything yet you cannot accept that He made all things in six days which is repeated throughout Scripture. If God does not mean what He says we return to the garden scene the very cause of the fall of man to accept what the serpent told Adam and Eve that they would be like gods and they surely wouldn't die. If this is just a matter of interpretation why did we need Jesus Christ to come into the world to pay for the sin of many? Was John talking nonsense when he declared that there was nothing made that was not made by Jesus Christ? If Jesus backed to the hilt the Old Covenant Scriptures why would He do that if He didn't make all things in the six days? If the words " Let there be...." is it not surprising that there is no mention of a big bang billions of years before? Six times all He said was " Let there be," and there was. Now you say that scientifically it was impossible but the thing is that we are not talking of how science made anything but how God Supernatually made everything up and running so that we had a planet filled with life that no other planet that we know of has.

Yes, God can do anything. Which means that yes, God could have made the coal appear younger that in it is, if He wanted.

I don't believe that happened, as I don't take the Old Testament literally. And I don't believe God would "delude" us by making some things seem older than they are.
You seem to believe that the truth is in the Old Testament and that science can't be taken literally. I disagree and I think it's the other way around. And the reason I disagree is that God told us that we won't understand and that He will talk with parables etc.

John was not talking nonsense. Everything was made by God. Not in the way it is described in the Old Testament, but in different ways that science unlocks. As I said previously, God created the laws thus He created everything. The Old Testament tells us who made the world, not how. Science has not explained so far everything that has to do with the creation or the laws of the world and not a day passes that we don't discover something more in this wide world the God created and that we inhabit.

The worlds "let there be... " explain who created the world. That in the Genesis He said it six times is not to be taken literally.
I will not go to explanations of why Bing Bang aligns with Genesis because that's not the point of the Genesis. Bing Bang is a theory. In 200 years there'll be a different theory or this theory of the Bing Bang would have become more detailed and explained more things. In 500 years we would know even more. And so on and so forth.

Furthermore, my faith in God doesn't rely on whether we find another planet with vegetation. Not even in Genesis there's mention that Earth is the only planet with vegetation! The existence of other planets with vegetation doesn't contradict the Genesis in any way.


All in all, The "Let there be..." is the mention of the Big Bang you're looking for. Or the theory that would replace the Big Bang. And the theory that would replace that after that.
God is the Beginning and the End. That doesn't mean we can comprehend it. Sooner or later we will all go to Him and I hope He will grace us with greater understanding of the Creation, but we don't know that either.

[basics]

alhoon,

It is written that God is a God of order not chaos which any large explosion produces even under the strictest controls. I have a little knowledge of explosives as my brother worked for a demolition company and I spent seven years in the Army Cadets experiencing mortar fire as well as experiencing the results of bombing just up the road from where I lived. There was no big bang. There couldn't have been since even science now admits that there had to be a beginning in which there was nothing before it. Indeed Genesis tells us that God made the darkness of space which didn't exist until He spoke the words. He broke a day into night and day specifically so that life could flourish because all things including us are organic creatures need a time of rest, of replenishment. Where God lives there is no need for night and so He and the angelic beings live without it in a spiritual fashion. That's the reason He made man a little lower than the angels because in that great day of the Lord's coming He will separate them to be spiritual from those not. It's why we have the bodies that we have now.

[Akar]

There couldn't have been since even science now admits that there had to be a beginning in which there was nothing before it

Science admits no such thing. It is impossible to observe what existed before the big bang and science only posits that it is impossible to know what came before, nothing at all about "had to be a beginning in which there was nothing". I genuinely don't think you understand what the big bang is.

It is written

How about some sources besides the damn bible?

He broke a day into night and day specifically so that life could flourish because all things including us are organic creatures need a time of rest, of replenishment

He also would have been the one who created the need for rest. God did such a good job solving a problem he himself created, isn't he wonderful? This is akin to praising an arsonist for dousing a fire he started.

Where God lives there is no need for night and so He and the angelic beings live without it in a spiritual fashion. That's the reason He made man a little lower than the angels because in that great day of the Lord's coming He will separate them to be spiritual from those not. It's why we have the bodies that we have now.

Nah lol.

[Himster]

If we are to take the ideao of this being a God created reality seriously, then we have one absolutely objective source on how this was done: the observable universe.
This makes science the objective word of God and the Holy books around the world are mere translations made by men.

[basics]

Akar,

It so happens that the Bible is sufficient for me to grasp the frailty of life and so hold on to what it tells me. My time on this planet like yours is but a miniscule whether it be Bible led or led by evolution and so I am not so worried about the past as much as I am about my future. If there is no future then what is the point of life? I mean how does it feel to know or think to know that there is nothing else? Does a page in history really thrill you that much knowing that any second you might be dead and gone from the memories of most of mankind? No my friend, the Bible gives me hope that I do have a future and that to be forevermore with my Creator, My Saviour and my Comforter. What do you have that can surpass that?

[Muizer]

I mean how does it feel to know or think to know that there is nothing else? Does a page in history really thrill you that much knowing that any second you might be dead and gone from the memories of most of mankind?

There's an element of regret to knowing the world will continue without me, but then again it's been around for billions of years without me. Why, really, should I miss the future more than the past? As for our page in history, it is a pretty special one IMHO. To think how immensely our understanding of the past, but also the future, our place in the universe has expanded in the last few decades.... I dare say by studying that, my sense of wonder at what the universe is and what our place in it is, is greater than that derived from a book dating back to a time when people were virtually blind to such things.

Regardless I dare say neither of us would consider the degree to which thoughts are comforting a solid indication of their truth.

[Akar]

The inherent meaningless of life allows you to ascribe your own meaning to it, and I think that's beautiful. Fear of a future without us is just as silly as a fear of the past without us. When we're gone we're gone and there's nothing we can do about it. Why not live for the present and not worry about what happens after you die? It seems crazy to spend all 80+ years of your life just waiting to die so you can really get the fun started.

[alhoon]

Basics, when one doesn't abide by your literal interpretation of the Genesis does not mean they throw the whole religion under the bus. Many Theologists since the early middle ages were not ascribing literal word-for-word interpretation of the genesis.

Whether you agree or disagree with our interpretation of the Genesis does not make us any more or any less Christian.

[basics]

Basics, when one doesn't abide by your literal interpretation of the Genesis does not mean they throw the whole religion under the bus. Many Theologists since the early middle ages were not ascribing literal word-for-word interpretation of the genesis.

Whether you agree or disagree with our interpretation of the Genesis does not make us any more or any less Christian.

alhoon,

Jeus our Creator did say that, " unless a man is born again of the Spirit of God he cannot enter heaven." Which words of the Creator are we to take as literal and those not? He went as far as to tell of the sheep and goats within the same fold, one knowing Him and Him them, the other only thinking they know Him and Him them. This is when the church, His church, is cleansed before the diehard unbelievers are. As Peter tells us Scripture can only be interpreted through the Holy Ghost's leading, why? Because only He can lead a person into all truth. That truth begins at Genesis 1 and goes all the way through to the Revelation of Jesus Christ's last verse, why? Because God cannot lie.

[Akar]

It's got to be so convenient for Christians that the bible is always true because the bible says it's always true. I wish I could circular logic my way out of any debate or argument.

[alhoon]

As Peter tells us Scripture can only be interpreted through the Holy Ghost's leading, why? Because only He can lead a person into all truth. That truth begins at Genesis 1 and goes all the way through to the Revelation of Jesus Christ's last verse, why? Because God cannot lie.

Yes, God does not lie. That doesn't mean whatever you read in the Bible is literal, word for word. Your own example of Peter telling us that scripture can only be interpreted through the Holy Ghost's leading (thus not by our rationale alone or by taking the words exactly as they are written and nothing but) shows evidence that the truth contained in Genesis is more and harder to understand than a few words.
Nobody is saying that Genesis lies. What we say is that Genesis is not literal.

[Akar]

I am actually saying that Genesis lies, just for the record.

[basics]

Well gentlemen, we'll just have to disagree with one another because on that score God's word is God's word as if he was saying it to my face. I remember not long after I became a Christian the Bible was pretty much unknown to me inasmuch as I believed more in faith than knowledge. So, if I read any portion of it I was left pretty frustrated by what I couldn't grasp until that is the dreams rolled in. Night after night from that point it was as if I was seeing the titles of a movie role out before me and it wasn't to be the first time I would waken my wife up to tell her what had been placed before me to understand. This went on for many months and probably more as I didn't keep a count but I knew that God was teaching me sometimes to the point of my exhaustion and the annoyance of a sleepy woman who had not long had our first child. That was thirty years ago when it started and three kids later I still get excited when something that escaped me all that time becomes apparent. So, as I stretch out into my 77 plus years there is not a doubt about what the Bible literally tells me.

[Akar]

That has literally nothing to do with taking Genesis as a factual interpretation.

[basics]

Akar,

You see God says that the ruler of this world has made you Spiritually blind making it impossible for you to believe anything that the Bible says. Therefore you paint your own picture of what you want others to hear the object to destroy if you can God's word to us. In saying, " Let there be..." at creation six times, is that any different from parting waters twice or Him walking on water, or telling the centurian that his son lives or calling out Lazarus from the stinking grave. Was the laying on of hands on little Fiona not a literal act that resulted in her eyes being corrected to the amazement of many doctors and nurses in our modern times? No my friend, you're quite wrong.