Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 118

Thread: Hanau Shooting

  1. #61
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    I must disappoint our permanent migrant and muslim "critics".

    No evil muslim terror attack.

    The attacker Maurice P (29 years) is german and living in Volkmarsen.

    He shall have told a neighbour before his act: "Soon i'm in the newspaper."

    https://www.rtl.de/cms/volkmarsen-he...k-4493035.html

    Thanks god the german public opinion doesn't follow Aexodus with blaming the victims and bowing down to the political requirements of far right terrorists.

    Helau!

    https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-rosen...ned/g-52499571
    Why would I be disappointed?

    It looks like a case of a copy cat seeking notoriety.

    I have never victim-blamed carmen, nor wanted to ‘bow down’ to far right terrorists.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  2. #62
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    17,268

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Diversity and social cohesion are vague terms. I've got a couple problems with how social cohesion and diversity are measured.

    First is the term diversity. When diversity comes to someone's mind or when its measured its usually in terms of race or ethnicity. I'd say religion too but its usually put together with race or ethnicity. Yet diversity is much more than those previous terms. It can be measured in terms of culture, political ideology, behavior or even minor differences between one another. These other factors likely have as big of an influence as race or ethnicity when it comes to comparing diversity and social cohesion.

    Second, when measuring diversity in society its usually done through immigration into that country. Yet societies can become diverse even without immigration and i don't think thats accurately measured when it comes to influence on social cohesion.

    Thurd, social cohesion itself is a vague term. Whats its based on? Trust in society? Trust in the government? Or is trust not even a factor to some when it comes to the idea of social cohesion?

    I'm on my phone so i can't do a better summary of my argument but this article touches on a lot of what i've said.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...cial-cohesion/

    Main point is that saying diversity causes a decrease in social cohesion is not entirely accurate and the fact that comparing diversity and its effect social cohesion is fraught with variables we can't control or accurately measure.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    No need to make accusations. At no point did I justify any terrorist activity.
    Um... I completely agree? However, the state has no appropriate role in political re-education and brainwashing. It has to be a bottom up phenomenon not a top down enforcement of values.
    Multicultural spatial segregation plays a part in social cohesion breakdown and cultural polarisation, where different areas of the same country have not only different, but highly frictional cultural, religious and political beliefs.
    It’s better and more stable to have a sort of ‘omnicultural’ society, or a monocultural one.
    Once the conditions are right, extremists can and will exploit them for their own ends. A way to fight that is to prevent the conditions for radicalisation in the first place.
    Exhibit A:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-he-was-right/
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cate...ots_in_England
    Germany, France and Italy. Bizarrely Italy had a Chinese vs Arab conflict.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/01/europ...ntl/index.html
    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indept...123148797.html
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Corsican_protests
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/italy-chine...y-town-1568498
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...62413.html?amp
    I advise you not to change your post after it was already quoted and addressed. It's a petty way of changing your post...

    Victim blaming is a form of justification. It's what you're trying to defend there. I understand that you're failing to grasp what you're actually arguing here. Whats utterly funny is that you're blaming segregation to segregate the society entirely. You're basically playing yourself.
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #64

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    It is quite clear that comments about diversity negatively affecting social cohesion have to do with policies enacted by elitist governments that undermine interests of indigenous populations of Europe.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    We do not judge society by how cohesive it is. We judge it by the rule of law and civil values. The Hanau shooting shouldn't be making us reconsider diversity. It should make the authorities emphasize that they do not tolerate this kind of violence regardless of who commits it.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    We do not judge society by how cohesive it is. We judge it by the rule of law and civil values. The Hanau shooting shouldn't be making us reconsider diversity. It should make the authorities emphasize that they do not tolerate this kind of violence regardless of who commits it.
    "Lethal disease shouldn't be making us consider developing vaccine. It should make authorities emphasize that they are not okay with people dying from that disease."

  7. #67
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    We do not judge society by how cohesive it is. We judge it by the rule of law and civil values. The Hanau shooting shouldn't be making us reconsider diversity. It should make the authorities emphasize that they do not tolerate this kind of violence regardless of who commits it.
    How does diversity bring any benefits.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    "Lethal disease shouldn't be making us consider developing vaccine. It should make authorities emphasize that they are not okay with people dying from that disease."
    You just compared demographic diversity to disease. Congratulations, your words speak for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    How does diversity bring any benefits.
    There's nothing good or bad about it. Limiting immigration on the basis of ethnicity is nothing short of racism or xenophobia and promoting such discourse does nothing for actual issues. Statements that can be boiled down to, "We need to limit immigration because differences between cultures may results in social conflict" is just bowing down to racism.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    You just compared demographic diversity to disease. Congratulations, your words speak for yourself.
    I pointed out that you would rather have authorities virtue signal about disliking the consequences of a problem then address the cause of the problem.
    There's nothing good or bad about it. Limiting immigration on the basis of ethnicity is nothing short of racism or xenophobia and promoting such discourse does nothing for actual issues. Statements that can be boiled down to, "We need to limit immigration because differences between cultures may results in social conflict" is just bowing down to racism.
    Has nothing to do with the concept of race. I'm sure if government would mass import Swedes, allow them to create parallel societies that ignore our laws, pay them welfare out of taxpayer's pocket and turn blind eye to crimes committed by Swedes and tell native population to ignore negative consequences of such policies under threat of social and even legal problems, there'd be a problem.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; February 25, 2020 at 09:40 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I pointed out that you would rather have authorities virtue signal about disliking the consequences of a problem then address the cause of the problem.
    No you didn't. You did however, liken diversity to contagion.

    Has nothing to do with the concept of race. I'm sure if government would mass import Swedes, allow them to create parallel societies that ignore our laws, pay them welfare out of taxpayer's pocket and turn blind eye to crimes committed by Swedes and tell native population to ignore negative consequences of such policies under threat of social and even legal problems, there'd be a problem.
    The only problem here is the fantasy you're cooking up in your mind.

  11. #71
    Senator
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,121

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Has nothing to do with the concept of race. I'm sure if government would mass import Swedes, allow them to create parallel societies that ignore our laws, pay them welfare out of taxpayer's pocket and turn blind eye to crimes committed by Swedes and tell native population to ignore negative consequences of such policies under threat of social and even legal problems, there'd be a problem.
    I don`t like swedes, don`t dare to send those to my country!

    What about the fact, that all of those victims of the Hanau Shooting were born in Hanau, went to school in Hanau and worked there?
    They contributed far more for our society than all those tinfoilhats like the shooter, who have nothing better to do than talking the whole day about the Great replacement....

  12. #72
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Deep within the dark german forest
    Posts
    8,405

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    4 or 5 of them with migrant background had already the german citizenship. You can't integrate more.

    As i said before, talking about limiting migration to prevent terror from far right terrorists is nothing more than bowing down before them and blaming victims for being shot.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  13. #73

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    People who direct their anger about migration policies toward the foreign origin individuals themselves are compromising legitimate arguments. The migrants have essentially been invited, migrants who have committed no crime are guilty of nothing more than accepting the invitation. Second generation immigrants are guilty of nothing more than being born. Political violence of this sort is unacceptable regardless, but if those with grievances focused their anger toward policy makers rather than foreign origin individuals, they would be less easily dismissed as being motivated by racism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  14. #74
    Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,355

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    People who direct their anger about migration policies toward the foreign origin individuals themselves are compromising legitimate arguments. The migrants have essentially been invited, migrants who have committed no crime are guilty of nothing more than accepting the invitation. Second generation immigrants are guilty of nothing more than being born. Political violence of this sort is unacceptable regardless, but if those with grievances focused their anger toward policy makers rather than foreign origin individuals, they would be less easily dismissed as being motivated by racism.
    The shooter published a manifesto calling for the complete extermination of the populations of
    Israel, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Iran, Indian, Pakistan, Vietnam and the Philippines. He had posted messages ranting about QAnon rubbish, and his inability to find a female partner.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-shooter-reportedly-wanted-to-eliminate-israel-other-mideast-countries/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/21/hanau-attack-part-of-pattern-of-white-supremacist-violence-flowing-from-us

    Its pretty clear that arseclowns on keyboards repeating this rubbish online inspires murders.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  15. #75
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
    Patrician Artifex Magistrate

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    11,087

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I pointed out that you would rather have authorities virtue signal about disliking the consequences of a problem then address the cause of the problem.
    No. He's saying the racists are the problem and authorities should not appease them. Yep that's right. Appeasement, you know, as in when people say use arguments that run like "extremists are bad, so we should remove whatever it is that triggers them".
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  16. #76

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    No you didn't. You did however, liken diversity to contagion.
    It was obviously an analogy. You missed the point entirely, as usual.
    The only problem here is the fantasy you're cooking up in your mind.
    An empty ad hominem attack that doesn't address my point about opposition to mass-immigration policies having nothing to do with race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    I don`t like swedes, don`t dare to send those to my country!

    What about the fact, that all of those victims of the Hanau Shooting were born in Hanau, went to school in Hanau and worked there?
    They contributed far more for our society than all those tinfoilhats like the shooter, who have nothing better to do than talking the whole day about the Great replacement....
    Sounds like a pointless statement, given the context of the discussion. The problem is Merkel and her government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    No. He's saying the racists are the problem and authorities should not appease them. Yep that's right. Appeasement, you know, as in when people say use arguments that run like "extremists are bad, so we should remove whatever it is that triggers them".
    "By dealing with root cause of the problem we are appeasing its consequences*.
    Thankfully you are not in charge of dealing with coronavirus.

  17. #77
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
    Patrician Artifex Magistrate

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    11,087

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    "By dealing with root cause of the problem we are appeasing its consequences*.
    Your root cause is only a root cause if you assume people are incorrigible s, excusing them like you'd excuse wild animals for following their instincts.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  18. #78

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It was obviously an analogy. You missed the point entirely, as usual.
    We understand your insinuations perfectly and I'm pleased to see that many Forum members are sufficiently disgusted with them.

    An empty ad hominem attack that doesn't address my point about opposition to mass-immigration policies having nothing to do with race.
    I didn't mention race, you did.

  19. #79
    Praeses
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,355

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    How does diversity bring any benefits.
    Thats a very strange question and I think you have it arse about.

    Genetic diversity is insurance against extinction through multiple survival pathways. Likewise political, economic, cultural and lifestyle diversity offers "survival insurance" to different challenges. Its oversimplifying to say "monoculture is death" as in the long run we're all dead but hedging your bets is a prudent strategy.

    Communities both nurture and enforce norms of course so the discussion is about to what degree you promote or discourage difference. Germany is a highly successful state by every possible measure so the degree of diversity would not seem excessive in a rational sense. You'd have to be out of touch with reality to believe a shisha bar represents an existential threat to the dominant state within the EU and member of the G7. Asa side note only Japan of the G7 imposes severe restrictions on immigration (for reasons of limited real estate as well as xenophobia): the other six are pretty multicultural.

    Lone wolves on shooting rampages don't say as much about their victims' community as they do their own. This guy's community was keyboard warriors who rant about Great Replacement conspiracies, QAnon and their own sexual failure. These people are self selected for failure. Maybe we could set IRL battle royales for these losers to gun one another down? Guarantee the "winner" a girlfriend and a million bucks, it would more than pay for itself.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  20. #80
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
    Patrician Artifex Magistrate

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    11,087

    Default Re: Hanau Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    How does diversity bring any benefits.
    It doesn't really. It's a by product of not having to deal with all the ugliness that accompanies striving for or insisting on maintaining 'homogeneity'. As I mentioned before, the only arguments for homogeneity are 1) a belief in one's own superiority or 2) a belief that mankind is so fundamentally predisposed towards homogeneity that it's better to have a few 'reasonable people' in charge who recognize the masses cannot rise above those base instincts and can only be contained by appeasing them.
    Last edited by Muizer; February 26, 2020 at 03:29 PM.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •