Police probe into 'transphobic' tweets of Miller unlawful

[Aexodus]

Great news!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-51501202
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/harry...weets-11933809
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...mark-free/amp/

https://twitter.com/adamwagner1/stat...552917506?s=21

The High Court has ruled that the police unlawfully interfered with Harry Miller.

A Humberside Police ‘community cohesion’ officer came to his house and warned him to ‘check his thinking’ because he had committed a ‘non-crime hate incident’.

A non-crime, hate incident.

The definition of a hate incident doesn’t require any evidence.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/adv...is-hate-crime/

A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender. Not all hate incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police.

Evidence of the hate element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate related.

Reminds me of that guy in sumskilz’s sig.

You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.

The police have no business interfering with my private life when I’ve comitted no crime. Humberside Police have behaved in a way that favours certain political interest groups such as Stonewall UK, and intimidates law-abiding citizens because they dislike their political opinions. This isn’t impartial policing.

"The effect of the police turning up at his place of work because of his political opinions must not be underestimated,” Mr Justice Knowles wrote in his final judgment. "To do so would be to undervalue a cardinal democratic freedom. In this country we have never had a Cheka, a Gestapo or a Stasi. We have never lived in an Orwellian society."

No matter how much they dress it up rainbows and language like ‘community cohesion’, this kind of policing is wrong, and police services up and down the country should be reviewing their conduct.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news...oin-208807.amp

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When parked side by side the cars form a whole rainbow

It was kinda funny to see Graham Lineham at the press statement lol.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: A woman had to appear in court today facing jail time after being arrested in front of her children for calling someone a pig in a wig on Twitter, so there’s stil a long way to go for free speech. https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/14/mum-s...tter-12241097/

[Gromovnik]

The "pig in a wig" case is hilarious.

[Akar]

What the hell is a "‘non-crime hate incident" supposed to be?

What were these dullards thinking when they went over there? Who gave the order? Why is that person not fired? Is that person fired? I haven't read the articles?

[Aexodus]

What the hell is a "‘non-crime hate incident" supposed to be?

I’ll tell you.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/adv...is-hate-crime/

A hate incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someone’s prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender. Not all hate incidents will amount to criminal offences, but it is equally important that these are reported and recorded by the police.

Evidence of the hate element is not a requirement. You do not need to personally perceive the incident to be hate related. It would be enough if another person, a witness or even a police officer thought that the incident was hate related.

Reminds me of that guy in sumskilz’s sig.

You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.

What were these dullards thinking when they went over there? Who gave the order? Why is that person not fired? Is that person fired? I haven't read the articles?

What the officer did was in line with standard practice across the country. Therefore no-one would have been penalised.

[Akar]

Standard practice? That absolutely crazy to me. You don't agree with their execution of the law, I assume?

This is the first step towards thought crimes becoming a thing and it's terrifying.

[Aexodus]

Well the officer did ask him to ‘check his thinking’. Make of that what you will.

[Akar]

I love the idea of sending officers down to someone's home to tell them to check their privilege

[TheLeft]

Good news indeed!!

You are all once again free to bully, troll and victimise the Trans community again. A community that suffers vastly increased rates of suicide, self-harm and mental health issues. You must all be so pleased!

[Akar]

You're free to bully whom ever you want for whatever you want until it rises to the level of legal harassment.

[Cookiegod]

Good news indeed!!

You are all once again free to bully, troll and victimise the Trans community again. A community that suffers vastly increased rates of suicide, self-harm and mental health issues. You must all be so pleased!

Yeah. Everyone knows the best and only way to help people with mental health issues is to tell them what they want to hear. Also, sex change operations, as we all know, come at no risk whatsoever, and no one has ever regretted doing this irreversible change or had severe complications that would follow them for the rest of their lives. There's nothing wrong with telling people with mental health issues to do these operations to live out a fantasy. Simply keeping it at transvestite level where you can still be whatever you want minus physical health risks is not an option because there's no better way to treat mental health issues than through physically altering ones body.

Also obviously if you send people after everyone disagreeing with your disbelief in biological reality then said reality goes away.

[Cope]

There are a variety of other speech restrictions in the US (slander, incitement to violence, employment regulations etc.) which can be used to litigate "bullying" claims. In the UK the list of potential violations is endless to the point of being all encompassing; you can be convicted of causing annoyance, inconvenience, anxiety, offence etc. And even in legal context as sensitive and authoritarian as that, the police still feel the need to intimidate people for committing non-crimes. That's what happens when you don't have ironclad guarantee(s) protecting the right to free speech like the 1A.

[Himster]

Good news indeed!!

You are all once again free to bully, troll and victimise the Trans community again. A community that suffers vastly increased rates of suicide, self-harm and mental health issues. You must all be so pleased!

Of course nobody should bully anyone. That's something of a red herring.
The issue in this thread is state ordained thought crime. Codes of decency cannot be enforced/coerced by the state by definition, to do so is like a clockwork orange, it would undermine the concept of decency itself and individual agency (ie. the mechanism of human progress).
The rates of self harm in the trans community is a tragedy. Reintroducing a Stasi, Cheka or Gestapo is a crime against humanity.

[Cookiegod]

I mean UK is pretty medieval in those regards. Freedom of speech isn't the only thing they don't have.

To be frank, freedom of speech doesn't have to be all encompassing. Like I'm a big fan of Popper's intolerance paradoxon (not really a paradoxon but what the heck).

That's not what these geniuses are after though. Anyone disagreeing with their political dogmata, even when they're in conflict with biological and physical reality, should be silenced by all means necessary.

The rates of self harm in the trans community is a tragedy.

Sex change operations are self-harming as well. Just with assistance, and a decision made by a mind that is not always in a state to make a good decision.

[Aexodus]

I’d like to draw attention to the fact that there’s no requirement for evidence, it’s simply based upon you, an onlooker or the police’s subjective perception, which isn’t how the law should work.

It’s effectively assuming guilt until proven innocent.

It also severely compromises the integrity of hate crime statistics, if the real stuff like racially motivated assaults are mixed up with people being rude on Twitter. The non-existent threshold for evidence further inflates the figures.

[TheLeft]

Yeah. Everyone knows the best and only way to help people with mental health issues is to tell them what they want to hear. Also, sex change operations, as we all know, come at no risk whatsoever, and no one has ever regretted doing this irreversible change or had severe complications that would follow them for the rest of their lives. There's nothing wrong with telling people with mental health issues to do these operations to live out a fantasy. Simply keeping it at transvestite level where you can still be whatever you want minus physical health risks is not an option because there's no better way to treat mental health issues than through physically altering ones body.

Also obviously if you send people after everyone disagreeing with your disbelief in biological reality then said reality goes away.

I'm assuming that due to your extensive knowledge and background dealing with Gender dysphoria and other similar medical conditions, that you obviously know best. So I'll get on the phone to the medical establishment and tell them to abandon their decades of research and instead to follow your rambling word salad as a treatment plan.

So please, 'Doctor', if you could write up your notes and submit them to the Lancet Medical Journal, I think we'll all be better off...

[Aexodus]

I'm assuming that due to your extensive knowledge and background dealing with Gender dysphoria and other similar medical conditions, that you obviously know best. So I'll get on the phone to the medical establishment and tell them to abandon their decades of research and instead to follow your rambling word salad as a treatment plan.

So please, 'Doctor', if you could write up your notes and submit them to the Lancet Medical Journal, I think we'll all be better off...

But should police be allowed to threaten you with arrest for expressing a transphobic opinion?

[Cope]

But should police be allowed to threaten you with arrest for expressing a transphobic opinion?

An opinion which is perceived to be transphobic, you mean.

[Aexodus]

Well reality is totally subjective to perception isn’t it of course

[Himster]

Sex change operations are self-harming as well. Just with assistance, and a decision made by a mind that is not always in a state to make a good decision.

Well that's just being deliberately crass and provocative, but I'll bite.
Sex change operations (which aren't essential to being legitimately trans) are no more self-harm than getting a tattoo, a piercing, braces or any kind of cosmetic surgery, all with the purpose to achieving an aesthetic goal. As someone with significant artistic sensitivity I view that as among the most noble of goals. A closer comparison might be the body builder who goes through tremendous suffering and endurance to achieve his/her aesthetic vision.
People like their bodies to conform to their own self conceptions and finally our culture is catching up to this reality.

The cornerstone, or key essence that makes Western culture unique (or even possibly "great") is the exaltation we have of the individual and self determination. If one holds any value for our culture then one should laud those who strive to become individuals according to their own wills rather than the collective. And I don't think it is fair to merely assume that they're doing this to be part of a fad or as slaves to a new fashion. There is more to it than that.

The tragedy I find around the topic of trans rights/respect is how the trans issues are being torn apart by two groups who do not have their best interests at heart. Trans folks are not naturally aligned with far-left collectivist hive-mind types, to the contrary: it is against the essential nature of trans individuals to be grouped, as their whole mission statement is to literally escape the group they were assigned to at birth. Obviously traditionalism and right wing ideals are also at odds with trans folks. They have no allies, only users who see them as tools, and narrow minded fools who see them as broken tools being used against them.

[Cookiegod]

Well that's just being deliberately crass and provocative, but I'll bite.
Sex change operations (which aren't essential to being legitimately trans) are no more self-harm than getting a tattoo, a piercing, braces or any kind of cosmetic surgery, all with the purpose to achieving an aesthetic goal.

For one no, it's not just about achieving an aesthetic goal, and secondly tattoos, pierces and braces aren't nearly as invasive, nor do they have anywhere near as much side effects and possible complications. Which is to say worst case is your tattoo is ugly and stupid, but that's guaranteed regardless.

As for what can go wrong with sex change operations you can look that up online. I just ate and am not interested in barfing that up again.