favourite foot archer unit?

[jvasss]

Just wanted to have a discussion about foot archers! I really like the scythian ones, I am pretty sure their melee attack is armour piercing and they have managed to kill a few enemy generals for me so they have a special place in my heart. They also come in clutch with their comparatively high charge bonus and melee attack to be useful infantry if necessary.

Even though the sauromatae archers have 7 missile attack instead of 6 i don't find them to get many more kills and their melee stats aren't as good.
I never hire toxotai, almost on principle, even if they are the only archers available to recruit in a given situation.I have a borderline irrational dislike of them, even their unit design annoys me. 4 missile attack down from 7,6 or 5 (for dacian and persian archers etc), their range is 100 vs 170 or 180 for most archers and their morale is only 2! Honestly better of using slingers than toxotai.

just as a side note, how does heavy arrow differ from medium arrow?

[Sar1n]

In EBII, ranged attacks serve, in general, supporting role. So I favor multipurpose troops for ranged roles. The best archers in this are Thureopherontes Toxotai. They're decent line swordsmen once arrows are depleted, at least on par with mid-tier celtic troops. And while I use "pure" ranged troops in regional patrols, they're usually slingers or javelineers. Pure archers are just bad. Do not underestimate slingers though...Sphendonetai especially can be quite deadly for their cost, if you know how to best use them.

As for arrows...I asked the same, long time ago. IIIRC the heavy arrow is less accurate, but has larger area-that is the hitbox of the projectile. As result, I suppose it's more effective against large, packed formations but less effective against scattered skirmishers.

[Roma_Victrix]

This is no contest: as Sar1n said, Thureopherontes Toxotai are the best. They actually have staying power as medium armored swordsmen with thureos shields once they are done expending all of their arrows. While Toxotai Kretikoi are probably the best you can get for the early game, they just aren't as powerful as Thureopherontes after the Thorakitai reforms. Western Iranian archer spearmen are probably the next best in terms of defensive capabilities, but Scythian archers have a fairly vicious and relentless long range attack capability.

As far as slingers go the Illyrian Skaplinai are almost certainly the best in regards to overall capabilities, given their sheer amount of armor and defensive abilities. The very professional Balearic slingers are quicker to act on the draw, though, and don't tire as easily. There's always a trade off!

[NapoleonMaster]

You have forgotten the Dranik Gund(Armenian royal bodyguard)!

While maybe their recruitment is limited to Armenia, they are basically elite heavy infantry but with bows. They have great staying power in the field and they can support effectively with their archery and they can be deadly to cavalry since they're also equipped with spears.

I have atleast 1 of them in my armies since they're rare.

[Rad]

Numidian archers. They're cheap, readily available and I don't care what happens to them.

[Sar1n]

You have forgotten the Dranik Gund(Armenian royal bodyguard)!

While maybe their recruitment is limited to Armenia, they are basically elite heavy infantry but with bows. They have great staying power in the field and they can support effectively with their archery and they can be deadly to cavalry since they're also equipped with spears.

I have atleast 1 of them in my armies since they're rare.

True, I forgot those. But with 120 troops, their ranged performance falls short. And they're main line troops, so their window for using bows is limited.

Edit:

Numidian archers. They're cheap, readily available and I don't care what happens to them.

I use Sphendonetai whenever I can in my trash defense armies for the very same reason. Their cost-effectiveness is staggering.

[Roma_Victrix]

You have forgotten the Dranik Gund(Armenian royal bodyguard)!

While maybe their recruitment is limited to Armenia, they are basically elite heavy infantry but with bows. They have great staying power in the field and they can support effectively with their archery and they can be deadly to cavalry since they're also equipped with spears.

I have atleast 1 of them in my armies since they're rare.

Oh yes, they are awesome indeed, but I'm never able to recruit them and I always fight against them when a war breaks out between my factions and Hayasdan, so I'm on the receiving end of their effectiveness as missile units. LOL. Therefore I didn't really consider them, but you're right, they are as defensive as Thureopherontes Toxotai.

[Rad]

I use Sphendonetai whenever I can in my trash defense armies for the very same reason. Their cost-effectiveness is staggering.

Trash troops FTW!

[Baharr]

I like toxotai, I always stick them in my garrisons. They cost basically nothing and can pepper units from the safety of the walls, mix them in with some melee militia and you have a decent chance of holding the wall. Of course they are absolutely terrible at everything they do, but since you get a whole unit of them for the cost of, like, three onions and a loaf of bread this makes them a wonderful garrison unit.

[jvasss]

this might be a dumb question, but how do you recruit Thureoperontes toxotai as kimmerios bosporos?

[Rad]

You don't get them from the start, they're a reform unit.

[Septentrionalis]

In EBII, ranged attacks serve, in general, supporting role.

What do you guys really use archer units for in terms of support or otherwise?

My main use for them is to concentrate fire on a single unit middlish in the enemy line before the armies meet. Then, as they are about to clash, I also concentrate as many javelins as I can without breaking formation on that same unit. Usually the unit becomes so depleted that their morale will break very quickly after the melee starts, in which case I can already establish some local superiority in the front line.

[Baharr]

For me they serve four purposes -

a.) crippling casualties vs. very lightly armoured enemies
b.) annoying the enemy into committing to battle on my terms - e.g. up a hill, or into a prepared envelopment (the ai will commit itself foolishly if you can "persuade" it that you outrange and outgun it)
c.) thinning out enemy numbers to give me an advantage in attrition
and, for javelins exclusively,
d.) shock damage when fired into a unit's flank/rear

[Roma_Victrix]

You don't get them from the start, they're a reform unit.

What Rad is basically trying to say is first you have to get to about turn 210 or so for the Thorakitai Reforms around the year 220 BC. In other words, you have to drag your genitals through a field of broken glass for no less than 48 miles, then crawl on your hands and knees in excruciating pain through the same glass all the way back again. Then you'll have the privilege of recruiting them in like two settlements in very limited numbers. You should be so thankful, young man. Is the game not merciful? (There's only one right answer.)

[jvasss]

Hahahaha, okay. that's just great. I'm at about turn 170 in my campaign and was thinking about wrapping it up in the next 20 turns or so, i guess i have to keep going then!

[jvasss]

I just had a look at the player guide, what is this huge city military reform thingo? what is idiotike ge? Do i just need to own a huge city?

[Electricity]

I just had a look at the player guide, what is this huge city military reform thingo? what is idiotike ge? Do i just need to own a huge city?

Idiotike Ge is the agriculture reform for hellenistic factions. I think the first one can be built in a large city settlement. It is part of farms building tree.

[Roma_Victrix]

Hahahaha, okay. that's just great. I'm at about turn 170 in my campaign and was thinking about wrapping it up in the next 20 turns or so, i guess i have to keep going then!

I'm glad I convinced you otherwise, because that would be a huge mistake.

The Thorakitai reforms give you excellent new Greek chain-mail armored heavy infantry spearmen in addition to other beautiful units like the Aspidiotai Hellenistic lancers, the Lonchophoroi Hippeis heavy skirmisher cavalry who are armored and armed to the teeth, and the all powerful KATAPHRACTOI, the Hellenistic cataphracts decked out head to toe in full armor including chainmail, greaves, breastplates, scale, and cheires/manica plate band armor. They are truly the number one anal crushers and enemy dick smackers of the entire game, mounted on big scary ass war steads who are also covered head to hoof in heavy metal armor and crush everything. Hell yes! Kill everything! Your enemies deserve nothing less and they certainly deserve a lot more. They should be so thankful that the kataphractoi don't pay their wives and daughters a little visit afterwards too.

Unfortunately you can only recruit Kataphractoi heavy cavalry in a limited number of West Asian settlements, though, Damaskos, Edessa, and I think a few others further east, but I believe the Seleucids are able to recruit them in other places.

[Septentrionalis]

For me they serve four purposes -

a.) crippling casualties vs. very lightly armoured enemies
b.) annoying the enemy into committing to battle on my terms - e.g. up a hill, or into a prepared envelopment (the ai will commit itself foolishly if you can "persuade" it that you outrange and outgun it)
c.) thinning out enemy numbers to give me an advantage in attrition
and, for javelins exclusively,
d.) shock damage when fired into a unit's flank/rear

Thank you for your input. B and D are something that I have to make use of much more. Never really took full advantage of B, such as from higher ground, although I have noticed that behavior. D is something I realized is very effective only recently. I've been wasting way too many projectiles on enemy shields.

[Lusitanio]

My favorite ones are the Carthaginian/Punic archers
120 soldiers, better armor and defensive skills than the toxotai. An awesome unit to have x)