Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

  1. #1

    Default Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    A simple mod aimed to rectify a number of issues and historical inconsistencies regarding Novgorod. I made it for myself, but decided I might as well leave it here.

    Disclaimer:
    You can use this mod for whatever purposes without crediting or asking my permission.

    Installation:
    1. Make sure you have properly installed SS 6.4, SSHIP 0.9.6, and JoC's latest patch (03.02.2020).
    2. Dowload zip from google drive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Hx...SwgkoE-p0SIwWN
    3. Unzip it in your root folder of SSHIP (the one with SS launcher file)
    4. If you did it right, you will receive a prompt asking whether you want to replace existing files. Replace them.
    5. Go to: data/text folder and delete the file named "names.txt.strings.bin" (the game will recreate it once you launch it again, don't worry)

    That's it! You're ready to go!

    Changelog:

    1. Fixed a typo in faction leader's name.

    He is Vsevolod now, not Vselovod.

    2. Vsevolod Mstislavich is 29 at the start of the game, not 44.

    Although his exact birth date is unknown, it is believed to be 1103.

    The date of his birth is unknown, although the idea has been advanced that the event was commemorated by the Annunciation Church in the Marketplace, founded by Mstislav in 1103.
    3. Vsevolod has 3 children at the start of the game.

    Previously he started with Ivan (dead son) and Vysheslava Mstislavich. Now he starts with Ivan (died in 1128), Vladimir Vsevolodovich (alive, 8 years old), Viacheslava of Novgorod (alive, 7 years old).

    Vsevolod lost two children in 1128: his son Ivan and his daughter Anna (Yanka). I tried everything in my power to add dead Yanka to the family tree, but for some weird reason the game doesn't work if Vsevolod has more than 3 children. I was pretty sure the limit for each general was 4, but maybe I was wrong. Oh, well.

    Unfortunately, I couldn't find sources in English providing historical information on Vsevolod's children. But you can find relevant information on Vsevolod's Russian Wiki page, or use the same wiki to verify information on his son Vladimir Vsevolodovich.

    About naming: Vsevolodovich is not a surname. It's a middle-name, always representing one's father name. Vladimir, son of Vsevolod; Vsevolod, son of Mstislav, etc. A male middle-name would be Vsevolodovich, Mstislavich, etc; while a female middle-name would be Vsevolodovna, Mstislavna. Alas, I don't think it's possible to make the game engine recognize the difference.

    A solution to the problem would be to give Novgorod ruling dynasty an actual surname: Rurikovich, or its English gender-neutral variation Rurikid. But then we run into a problem of different branches of Rurik's dynasty (Olgovichi, Monomakhovichi, Rostislavichi, etc). I'm open to opinions on this one.

    Vsevolod Mstislavich was Rurikovich (Rurikid) of Monomakh branch, just like the ruling dynasty of Kievan Rus. In fact, Vsevolod is the son of Mstislav Monomakh - faction leader of Kievan Rus. But due to game engine's stiffness, his sons, grandsons, grand-grandsons and so on will be Vsevolodovich. That's because his son Vladimir is Vsevolodovich. Game engine will see "Vsevolodovich" as surname, passing it by to all future generations.

    Edit: Nope. Vsevolod's children will have "Mstislavich" as their last name no matter what. I'm sorry, the naming system in TW engine is beyond my modding skills.

    If anyone has ideas on how to make this issue less of an issue - I'm all ears.

    4. Vsevolod's wife renamed to Anna of Chernigov, aged 29.

    Previously she was named Svyatoslava Chenigovskii, which is actually her father's name. Her real name isn't known for certain, but there is a theory she was Anna. In any case, I figured it's better to make her Anna than name her after her father.

    5. "Sharp" trait added for Vsevolod.

    He was a smart and pious man, but again, it's hard to verify from English sources. From his English wiki page:

    It was Vsevolod who granted the charter to Ivan's Hundred, the first Russian merchant guild. In addition, the Cathedral of St. Nicholas in Yaroslav's Court, while often attributed to his father Mstislav, was mostly built during Vsevolod's tenure in Novgorod.
    The charter mentioned there (Уставная Грамота) is no joke. It's a serious work for the time period. Besides, due to the new education system, I feel like making the faction leader a BIT more intelligent than an average peasant would result in less pain managing Ignorant / Sadly Ignorant offspring.

    6. Svyatoslav Olgovich aged 25, his "Coward" trait removed.

    He was previously a 50-year old coward, which is horribly wrong. He was born around 1106-1107, and there is no indication from his biography justifying that "Coward" trait. I was considering removing Svyatoslav Olgovich from the game entirely, or maybe modifying his loalty a bit, because Olgovich and Monomakh branches of Rurikids were eternal rivals, and Vsevold-Svyatoslav rivalry was especially vicious.

    But the goal of this mini-mod is to make slight tweaks, fix mistakes, while staying as close to the original SSHIP as possible.

    7. Svyatoslav Olgovich doesn't have any children at the start of the game.

    Previously he started with 28 year old Oleg Olgovich and a daughter. In reality, Oleg Olgovich (real name was Oleg Svyatoslavich) was born only in 1137.

    Svyatoslav also had a daughter at the start of the game (Zbyslava or some other fictional name, can't remember now). The daughter was from vanilla SS 6.4, completely made up character.

    RL Svyatoslav had 3 sons and 1 daughter, but all of them born after 1132. Thus no kids for him.

    8. Svyatoslav's wife renamed to Girgineva, aged 25.

    No more Cuman wife named Irina (a 100% slavic name). His wife was the daughter of Cuman Khan Aepa, her name was Girgineva, and they were married in 1107. Yes, both of them were babies. It was an arrangement of their fathers. Don't you play Crusader Kings 2?

    9. Oleg Olgovich replaced with Svyatopolk Mstislavich.

    Svyatopolk was Vsevolod's brother, and he was the only son of Mstislav Monomakh not represented in the game. He was actually a Prince of Novgorod for a while, and fought alongside Vsevolod once (battle for Pereyaslav in 1135). I figured he will fit better than Oleg Olgovich.

    22 years old, no wife, no children, and he is the faction heir now, not Svyatoslav Olgovich.

    10. Starting merchant renamed to Sadko.

    I have no idea who was the previous starting merchant Petr Istoma (probably a made up name from vanilla SS 6.4). Novgorod's trade industy was legendary. We must make that merchant recognizable.

    Although Sadko was semi-legendary (as in, probably fictional) historical figure, I believe he fits nicely. Novgorod had its own "Kremlin" named Detinets, built in 1044. It had a wooden church (Церковь Бориса и Глеба) that was rebuilt into a stone one in 1146. It was Sadko who rebuilt the church.

    Thus we know that Sadko Sitinich was alive at the time period, and even if Sadko from tales was mostly fictional, his inspiration source (Sadko Sitinich) was 100% real.

    11. Starting priest renamed to Niphont of Novgorod, aged 32, starting priest level 5.

    Previous starting priest (Alexei) was a made-up character from vanilla. We don't know Niphont's birth date, but we know that he died in 1156. Increase of his starting priest level was made to give him a chance of becoming the Patriarch. Otherwise, any other recruited priest will become the Patriarch, just because the starting one has abysmal priest level. Which shouldn't be the case for Niphont.

    Russian page on Niphont.
    English page on Niphont.

    12. Starting scout renamed to Konstantin Mikulchich.

    Again, there was no person named Lyutobor Odinets, the name was transferred from vanilla.

    Konstantin was Vsevolod's friend and brother-in-arm. When Svyatoslav Olgovich replaced Vsevolod as Knyaz of Novgorod, it was Konstantin (Posadnik of Novgorod since 1135) who organized a coup in 1137, attempting to get rid of Svyatoslav Olgovich and re-establish Vsevolod Mstislavich as Knyaz. Although he failed at the attempt, he still managed to escape together with freshly-recruited followers of Vsevolod. That's a fine agent right there.

    Known Issues:
    1. A typo in "Of Novgorodian Blood" trait. Both "Of Novgorodian Blood" and "Of Kievan Blood" traits need to be redone, it's basically the same bloodline. I'd rather wait for the developers to do it, since it wasn't my intention to make any changes of such a scale.
    2. There is a slight chance for newborn women of Novgorod to be called Girgineva. 1 girl out of 60 might be called like that, so I don't think it's an issue.
    3. Nation description in campaign selection screen needs some love. Then again, every nation has vanilla descriptions. E.g., the descriptions of Norway and Denmark name the wrong kings (Haakon instead of Magnus; Knut II instead of Niels). Again, I would rather leave it to developers.
    4. Most of the characters had their portraits changed. Vsevolod looks the same, though. All SSHIP portraits are vanilla, so this mini-mod effectively switched some random faces to some other random faces, it's not that big of a deal in my book. Vanilla portraits can hardly represent any historical figure anyway.
    Last edited by Lurker from Codex; February 12, 2020 at 06:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician took an arrow to the knee

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    Interesting. I'll have a look at it. Thanks for your work
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #3

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    It's a pity I can't edit my own posts, so here is a follow-up instead:

    Vsevolod's children sill have "Mstislavich" as their surname. Not Vladimir Vsevolodovich, not Viacheslava of Novgorod, but *child name* Mstislavich. Noticed it too late, sorry.

    Couldn't beat the game engine's naming system after all. Well, at least everything else works as intended.

  4. #4
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician took an arrow to the knee

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    Once you have reached 25 posts, you should be able to edit them
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  5. #5
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cracovia
    Posts
    8,488

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    @Lurker: I'd ask you for ok to use your submod in the main SSHIP mod. They seem quite reasonable.

    Bloods will be re-done, I've actually started analysing options.

    Well, perhaps we don't play CK2 enough.

    Nations descriptions - if you'd fancy making new ones, we'd love it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    @Lurker: I'd ask you for ok to use your submod in the main SSHIP mod. They seem quite reasonable.
    Of course! I'd be honored! I'm currently playing a new campaign with my mod to test it further. I didn't change much, but TW is a fragile thing - an inexperienced guy like me could mess it up. So far no bugs or oddities, except some characters have new portraits for reasons unknown. I'll do some research on that issue and try to fix it asap.

    Nations descriptions - if you'd fancy making new ones, we'd love it.
    I'll try. From the top of my head: Novgorod shouldn't be called a republic (faction name is "Novgorodskaya Zemlja", but you can still see "Novgorod Republic" as its name in faction description), and the situation with Polotsk deserves a mention in the description. Long story short, Svyatopolk Mstislavich (Vsevolod's brother added by me) was appointed as Knyaz of Polotsk in 1132 by his brother Iziaslav Mstislavich (playable general of Kievan Rus). The same year people of Polotsk revolted and banished Svyatopolk, establishing Vasilko Svyatoslavich (indy general guarding Polotsk). It's one of the main reasons that led to rebellion of 1136 which created Novgorod Republic in the first place. Reclaiming Polotsk should be the primary goal of anyone playing as Novgorod.

  7. #7
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cracovia
    Posts
    8,488

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker from Codex View Post
    I'll try. From the top of my head:
    Just devote a bit more time to the text and take a longer term perspective (some words about the Scandinavians, Volodymyr the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, trade with the north etc. :-)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Novgorod fixes for SSHIP 0.9.6

    To be honest, I cannot come up with anything justifying Vsevolod's ambitions. Novgorod was not an independent faction in 1132. Vsevolod was not opposed to his father Mstislav, leader of Kievan Rus. Mstislav died in 1132 IRL, but he is alive at the start of the game. Mstislav appointed Vsevolod as Knyaz of Novgorod, while Mstislav himself reigned as Veliky Knyaz. Novgorod was a part of Kievan Rus back then, and we have no evidence suggesting any kind of Vsevolod's disloyalty or bad blood between Vsevolod and Mstislav.

    Now, if the game started with Mstislav just dead, imagine the possibilities. Kievan Rus crumbled apart very rapidly. In fact, Pskov (that was also a part of Kievan Rus before Mstislav died) proclaimed independence immideately. Polotsk too (it's already independent in the game, with historically accurate general protecting it). Letopisets (Chronicler) of Novgorod wrote in 1134: "разодралась вся земля Русская" (All Rus lands was torn apart).

    Yaropolk Vladimirovich (Yaropolk Monomakh) suceeded Mstislav Monomakh after his death in 1132. Yaropolk was Mstislav's brother, son of Vladimir Monomakh (Vladimir the Great). He ruled until 1139, and lost the rest of Kievan Rus. He was Vsevolod's uncle. Here is the gist of it from Yaropolk's Russian wiki page:

    Ярополк стал великим князем киевским в 1132 году после смерти старшего брата Мстислава. Под его прямым контролем находился только Киев с окрестностями. Смелый воин и способный полководец, Ярополк был слабым политиком, не сумевшим остановить распад государства на отдельные княжества.
    "Yaropolk became Veliky Knyaz in 1132, after the death of his elder brother Mstislav. Only Kiev and its region was under Yaropolk's direct control. A brave warrior and competent military commander, Yaropolk was a weak politician, incapable of stopping the disentigration of Kievan Rus".

    What we see here is a faction leader with zero authority, but decent military command. If we make Mstislav dead, both Kievan Rus and Novgorod should start with a single province, probably without alliance (they currently start allied). Kievan Rus would indeed be Principality of Kiev or Kievskoye Knyazhestvo. The game would be way more challenging for both of these factions. And anyone (even me ) would be able to write tasteful, cohesive nation descriptions for both Novgorod and (former) Kievan Rus.

    There is an alternative option too. Get rid of Novgorod (make it a part of Kievan Rus) and thus free an additional slot for a new faction. I'll be sad, but it would make sense. If Mstislav didn't die in 1132, Kievan Rus would probably hold together.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •