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Thread: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

  1. #21

    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    Both Advanced Micro Systems and Intel are selling as much as they can produce, and are suffering from capacity crunch, though in the former's case, they claim that happened because they underestimated demand.


    With Intel, it's certain they'll prioritize server over Pentiums, leaving a clear field for AMD to clear up at the lower end.


    Global Foundries is making a profit, because they didn't expend capital to upgrade to seven nanometres (which may turn out to be a mistake); however, AMD is required to purchase a minimum number of wafers from them, which can be the I/Os, chipsets and/or older Ryzens.
    Ryzen I/O is on 12nm, probably GloFlo's 12nm process. Their contract is solidly through 2020.

    Four core APUs for the desktop probably makes little significant difference if they're manufactured at seven, twelve or fourteen nanometres; it does if they're meant to go into laptops. What happened last year was that the three thousand series appear to move into the twelve nanometre production lines vacated by transferring the chiplets over to seven nanometres, and Ryzen Three is scheduled to be manufactured at seven nanometres plus, as well as Apple moving on to five nanometres, which should open up capacity.


    Doesn't necessarily mean that 4200G will have six cores at seven nanometres, though I'm pretty sure that will be the case with the 6200G; or maybe they'll do that for a more premiumized 4400G. I just have hopes for it.
    It's hard to say for sure. I don't expect it in this year or the next since 7nm wafer supply is pretty limited. I also wouldn't be surprised to see even less desktop APUs in general. Like I keep saying, it's a pretty limited market.


    But looking at it from a meta perspective, it makes sense for all that technology and research dedicated to gaming consoles to feedback to laptops and desktop variants, since the concept of the chiplet is to create a simple processing unit that can be scaled through all products, which Threadripper is demonstrating.


    The consumer has to figure out how this benefits him, and how to optimize that; in my case, 2200G has a very acceptable performance, and falls within a specific budget I have for what I'll utilize for, that would have to be balanced with equally economical computer components, cheap RAM and a cheap motherboard, whether used or discounted.


    My usual supplier reports that due to the Wuhan flu, there are going to be shortages and delays, good luck finding facemasks, and that resellers are likely going to hike the prices; there's currently an ongoing discount on Gigabyte products, and I'm wondering if I should pick up a pair of mATXes with four RAM slots while the opportunity presents itself.
    Well, people may say that. What I'm really wondering is how long will they milk these rumors for to justify jacking up prices. The technology for the general public is getting better, but personally I'm more excited for more custom designs.

  2. #22

    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    Hard to say how much the supply chain is going to be disrupted, my gut feeling says that you might as well calculate in a three month delay as a precaution; the stock market is trying to figure out how much is going to cost in lost productivity.


    As a precaution, and probably as an excuse, I bought three sets of discounted 3000Gs and mATXes, since I doubt I could find any thing cheaper than that with three year guarantees; couldn't find any dirt cheap RAM and ran short from my personal stock, not that it would matter, since two are in reserve.


    I hear the price of the Thirty nine hundred ecks is dropping due to oversupply, so I'm going to guess that seven nanometre wafers are not an issue, at least now.


    My believe is that as long as it makes financial and architectural sense, you add at least minimal graphics onboard, so that you don't need a discrete graphics add in, especially if the user has to do diagnostics. There are several, not necessarily niche, market segments that would want onboard graphics without needing the added complexity of getting an extra component, whether business, or users in developing countries that will be satisfied with okay graphics for gaming.


    For me, the 3000Gs are placeholders, in case I can't find better performers at the price I want and am willing to pay for; can they run Total War? I may find out.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  3. #23

    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    Advanced Micro Devices has incredible momentum, and apparently already has the next generation ready for production, which would remain on the AM4 socket, and unlikely to increase the number of cores, theoretically available for sale by the fourth quarter of this year.

    Whether or not they'll bother doing so remains up in the air, since for the next three years Intel won't even be in competition; the Wuhan virus is also likely to push back any technological schedules by a season. The real driver for gaming performances will be the new consoles by Sony and Microsoft, whose innards are basically going to eight core/sixteen thread Ryzens and Navi graphic cores, which means any new games are likely going to be optimized for mid range Ryzen Fives, which would be the general answer to any question regarding as to how many cores you're likely to need for the next five years or so.

    I doubt that new Ryzen generations are going to be cheaper nor budget orientated, since with sixteen core desktop and sixty four core Threadripper high end, Advance Micro Devices clearly enjoy the lead in halo products. Anyone interested in budget variants can purchase previous generation Ryzens, that are clearly more than capable of fulfilling most user requirements, and there already is a production line to upscale previous fourteen nanometre Sixteen Hundreds to twelve nanometres, so as each process becomes superceded, could use that now spare capacity to manufacture last year's models more efficiently and cheaper.

    Long term, the real prize is the server market, that the increasingly insecure Intel architecture will eventually force wholesale defections from their loyal customer base.

    Right now, the battle ground is going to be for the lucrative laptop space, as the current iterations of low power Ryzens are now within spitting distance of Intel performance, and combined with better pricing and Intel production crunch, leaves a large gap to be exploited; if the Ryzen chips hit five nanometres (presumably end of next year) before Intel can retool to seven nanometres (scheduled Twenty Twenty Two, knock on wood), they could easily lose half the market.

    As has been said before, no purchasing manager will lose his job for buying Intel, but that's because very few members of a company board or chief executives understand this technology.

    There's no point future proofing your personal computers, since Advanced Micro Systems have the bit between their teeth and will push their current technological advantage for all it's worth, giving priority to the Epyc server chips, and with Ryzen Four, move on to socket AM5, that will allow a greater number of cores on the desktop, presumable thirty two, DDR5, USB 4.0, and maybe PCIe 5.0 beginning Twenty Twenty Three.

    Intel is far from out, since if all else fails, they have more than enough money to buy out every start up technological firm in existence, and hope that with this new portfolio, they'll find something to catch up.

    Or, like IBM, move on to greener pastures.

    Did I say three years?

    Apple apparently knew about the extent of Intel's problems, which is why they dropped them (outside their obvious Standard Oil inclination to vertical integration).

    Going by Ay Em Dee's recovery roadmap, they bet the farm on a five year programme to design and manufacture the Ryzen; currently, it's their ball to drop, to either Intel, ARM or apparently RISCFive.

    In any case, computing will look completely different in five years, with a successor to Ryzen, the successor to that being tested, and the successor to that being developed, at likely three nanometres.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  4. #24

    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    A smartphone and a laptop. I've worked in quite a few places. Workstations and x86 isn't going anywhere, but in terms of the form factor, laptops are steadily replacing Desktops for most office applications. Unless you actually need serious CPU/GPU horsepower, chances are your employer will eventually replace that desktop with a laptop. Some campuses simply have monitors and desks. They expect you to use your company issued laptop to plug in and get work done.
    Whatever happened to the mini desktop market? I'm talking about those Apple-Mini looking desktops, I believe they are cheaper than a laptop, although more wires and cables.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    Whatever happened to the mini desktop market? I'm talking about those Apple-Mini looking desktops, I believe they are cheaper than a laptop, although more wires and cables.
    like Intel NUC with laptop memory and energy saving CPU? I had two, nobody use those at work as far as know. They're good for home but most users would prefer all in one pc I think (= monitor with small form pc mounted on the back).

  6. #26

    Default Re: intel VS AMD diccussion can AMD outclass intels last stromng point in the CPU market?

    There's no incentive, besides the gee whiz factor.

    It's something I was more interested in earlier, but at some point you realize that if you need a computer, you will find the space for even large towers; essentially, Microsoft could turn their Ecks Box into one at any point they choose, and it's always been an implied threat, and now from another (am)dimension.

    Especially in the last year, laptops have the horsepower and graphics to do pretty much cover ninety percent of what you would normally need a personal computer for, and for businesses, they wouldn't have to shell out for another monitor; plus, the workday doesn't end at five.

    The alternatives are micro atx (which I'm currently utilizing), and itx, and then you'd have to find a case that suits you; the advantages are that they are upgradeable and a helluvalot cheaper.

    And waiting for it's final evolution into a HDMI stick, WiFi integrated and a Thunderbolt socket on the other end; presumably television screens will be everywhere.


    Of course, when they're that small, likely to be already integrated with said television.
    Last edited by Condottiere 40K; August 30, 2020 at 04:04 AM.
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