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Thread: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

  1. #21
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    That's so strange! That table is a copy/paste of the same values from DEI for all the Athens factions(mac wars and grand campaign, civil war etc), with tweaked RGB values setting the faction colors. that's all it changes, so its a small price to pay to have the units recruitable at all-many of the units have their uniform colors set individually anyway.

    looking into it further, I somehow have a different name/key for the succession faction (Athenian Tyrants) but the regular athens factions and civil war ones match-maybe this is causing the units to be unrecruitabale since it is also looking for a faction that doesn't exist. Its possible I copied from both the vanilla tables as well as DEI, colors were the very first thing I worked on months ago.

    Sorry for the bug, and thanks for getting to the bottom of it! In short, go ahead and delete that table, and I'll try to get a fully fixed file uploaded in the next day or two

  2. #22

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Sounds good. Also look at Athenian Iphicratian Peltasts. When you mouse over them it says "Error unit has no class key assigned." I think this has to do with manpower and what pop they take from (right now they don't take from any).

  3. #23
    Civis
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Hello Demosthene why don't you cooperate with dei team official and make Athens great again by implement your progress in the Divide et impera ?
    You done great job!

  4. #24
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    I've updated the link in the first post with a fixed file with that table removed. I wanted to also fix the manpower issue in the same update, but I'm still trying to figure out where to assign population classes to units. to my knowledge the pop system is based on People of Rome 2, but I can't find the tables they cite as controlling this in the DEI packfiles...
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnar View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Adding units
    We will release an optional "compatibility" pack which will add all additional units from other packs so that they can be used with this mod.

    To get your units into this pack you'll need to send 2 completed tables to us in a pack. You can find both the tables in our pack: script/_lib/lib_units.lua

    The tables you'll need to complete are:
    unit_to_pop_table:

    The format of this table is: main units unit_key= { unit class cost, total number of men, population requirement},

    Unit class cost table is:

    Noble: 1
    Warrior/Middle Clas: 2
    Commoner/Subject: 3
    Foreigner/Helot/Perigrini: 4

    The population requirement will usually be the same as the number of men in the unit, it is there because we allow for units to cost more or less men than the size of the unit if you so wish to do.

    eg;

    unit_to_pop_table = {
    Aet_Cav = { 2, 80, 80 },
    Aet_Sword = { 2, 160, 160 },
    Afr_Archers = { 2, 120, 120 },
    }
    these 3 units all require the 2nd class population to recruit.

    manpower_all_units:

    The format of this table is

    "main units unit_key",

    eg;

    manpower_all_units = {
    "Aet_Cav",
    "Aet_Sword",
    "Afr_Archers",
    }

    when you fill this table out, only include your units and not vanilla unit keys.

    Mercenaries:
    If you are adding mercenaries in your mod you will ALSO need to add them to some other tables as well as the above mentioned tables.

    mercenary_units_to_faction_class;

    This table assigns the mercenaries to their cultural groups so that they will require citizen pop from those with who have this cultural group assigned and foreign population from those that dont. It is possible to add your mercenary unit to multiple mercenary cultural groups.

    The format for this table is;

    ["mercenary cultural key"] = {"mercenary unit key 1","mercenary unit key 2" },

    use our cultural keys if you want them added to the universal unit compatibility pack. If you see a need for another cultural mercenary key then ask myself about getting one set up.

    mercenary_units_table

    The format for this table is;

    " main units unit key",
    eg;
    mercenary_units_table = {
    "Mer_Afr_Archers",
    "Mer_Afr_Cav",
    }

    This serves a similar purpose as the manpower_all_units (you need to add the keys to both)



    If anything is not clear please ask and we will further clarify.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...fo-For-Modders

    I figure they are just named differently?

  5. #25
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    you should check some libraries, they should be inside a script folder if I'm correct
    use rpfm and the bottom left search bar so you can isolate the things you seek, try with keywords like lua, pop, manpower
    or check what libraries are linked from the main pop script (inside lua_scripts folder). Libraries are called somewhere in the first lines of the script.
    or download testudo rpgu packs, they surely have those lua libraries (already modded ofc)
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/u1g00...ction.zip/file

  6. #26

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    So, Demosthenes, odd idea that's been in my head for a while but is almost certainly outside the scope of the mod due to the changes needed to scripting and building chains would be to have the thalassocracies of Athens, Rhodes, and Knossos derive their Class 1 pop from commerce buildings but at a food malus to represent the conspicuous consumption (since class was based on monetary wealth instead of land ownership), and the farm buildings generate Class 2 pop since the wealthy aren't as interested in buying land when they can make more money (and status) through trade.

  7. #27
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    @Jake
    Thanks for the guidance! I was looking only in the DB tables, and I hadn't even heard of rpfm, a search function sounds really great-will give it a try!

    @SpardaSon21 - that sounds like a intriguing dynamic! I'm all for having marked differences between otherwise similar factions-and that sounds like it could really play to the strengths of Athens and Rhodes (I'm less familiar with Crete, other than their strong association with piracy and mercenary Cretan archers) since duplicating the entries for each building chain would be quite a lot of work, maybe something like this could be applied to the unique athens and rhodes buildings? I'm sure the phenomenon would be most prominent in the capital. Alas you are right that editing buildings (outside of recruitment) is a bit out of the intended scope of the mod, but I can see the value of it! I've had a lot going on IRL recently, but hope to have some progress to show off soon, and have been laying the groundwork for even more!

  8. #28
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Finally a (minor) update here, some bugfixes and a new unit! I’ve got much more in the works, but I want to release all the thureos reform units at once in the next big update. link in the first post has been updated

    Many thanks to [ESP}FLANAgAN for permission to use the checkered shield pattern from his lucanian units mod which can be found here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...htext=lucanian

    This elite marine unit is for admiral ships only

    inspiration
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    screens
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Changelog

    -Added the new elite marine unit to flagships (tower penteres and tetreres)
    -refined the helmets of the Logades, as well as giving them a boost to a 300 man unit
    -picked mercenary thureophoroi and picked mercenary thorakitai are now capped to 8 each. There will be further restrictions to the in-house mercenary units (most of which will be retained), but I want to wait until I have the reform units to take their place in a campaign before fully implementing extra restrictions.
    -Population changes
    ---Neotarantinoi are now pop 2
    ---Thetes Hoplites and Athenian Iphicratean Peltasts should now draw from the population, both pop 3

    Preview of a battle against the Spartans including a new reform unit - these disciplined thureophoroi will be a very flexible upgrade from the Athenian Iphicrateans. With long hoplite spears, 3 speed, and 4 javelins, and the ability to form square to protect other missile units from cav, they should be the core of any skirmishing/scouting/flanking force

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  9. #29
    Jake Armitage's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    nice

  10. #30
    Civis
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Hello guys i i will like to see this update to the upcoming update of DEI 1.2.5.C for Athens!!
    It need a historical update!

  11. #31

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Hey Demosthenes, once you get done with Athens, I have a few ideas about the Spartans in case you feel like changing the name to Hellas Resurgent.

  12. #32
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    What sort of things do you have in mind? I do have some (historically accurate) ideas for other greek states Sparta actually adapted pretty well to the hellenistic age, and with the new historically accurate Trophimoi hoplites (non-spartan greeks who admired sparta and paid for service/training) and Neodamodes phalangites (freed helots trained as pikemen) that KAM is cooking up, they should be better suited to putting together a modern army that isn't so hard on their manpower.

    As a break when I am frustrated with learning a new process or debugging athens units, I have made some tweaks to the spartans, mostly shields and helmets - Based off of this http://www.300spartanwarriors.com/im...Map_Sparta.jpg I've categorized them a bit by class and reform. Plain shields with a lambda are common throughout for periokoi and all but hippeis. white/yellow background lambda are used by periokoi, along with the bird associated with Skirtati.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Red background lambda shields are used on all true spartan units, and the earliest unreformed hoplites still use mostly mora embelems all mixed together- because there is no longer the manpower to form each mora separately.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    These dwindle through reforms where the black backed lambda is introduced for raised up new spartiates, and so for thureos
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    and thorax reform units the red and black background lambdas should be most common.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As you can see throughout all these units there are more sideways-crested pylos, (and konos for the pike unit - inspo https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2019/0...e-of-sellasia/) I dealt with some clipping, and spartan hoplites also have the short xiphos that they were known for.

    All of these shields were already in the DEI files. I've also done the same process of finding historically fitting shield textures for Pergamon, Rhodes, the Aetolians and Achaeans. The new Pergamon roster is fantastic and I'd likely leave many units untouched outside of shields -but I'd love to further flesh out the regional greek powers for the Mac Wars campaign in a historically accurate way.

    Actually had this sparta stuff finished before my last update - I'm definitely making progress on Athens! wrestling with exporting edited helmets from 3DS Max at the moment, but I should have something neat to show off once that's done
    Last edited by Demosthenes26; May 15, 2020 at 03:41 PM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    You seem to have nailed my basic ideas pretty well, with more and more non-Spartans getting added to the ranks as time passes. To go further into detail though, I would expand on the historical reforms where mercenaries and the like were granted citizenship in exchange for service, and as such the Spartans would have their own version of the Roman cursus honorum where through service one can clmb the social ladder. And as more and more men from outside Lacedaemon join up, units become described by their combat style instead of region of origin, as happened with the Tarantine cavalry. I see few issues drawing inspiration from Rome given that similar recruitment classes would appear, such as the poorest joining the Skiritai light infantry, the middle-classes joining the Periokoi, and any nobles enlisting their sons as Trophimoi. Generally speaking, due to the necessity of providing their own equipment, soldiers would be typically worse-equipped than others (aside from the Trophimoi who I would justify as having bought their way into a reduced form of the agoge to separate them from actual born Spartans who are better trained but more poorly equipped), but overall better trained compared to most others. Given how insistent the Spartans were on their soldiers self-funding their equipment and to a large extent training, unlike Athens or Rome I don't see any subsidies being handed out for the gear, only training.

  14. #34
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Isn't that basically the same as recruiting some Skirtai in say, Galatia, in the GC? or are you suggesting auxilia copies of the core units? I reckon the Neodamodeis and Trophimoi will fill that role pretty well in a campaign even if they historically only existed in the context of Laconia. If I do get to fleshing out the achaeans, aetolians etc it might be interesting to make a few units shareable outside of the AOR system for fellow greek factions -probably attached to unique settlements. So if you hold Pergamon as Rhodes for example you could recruit a (small, capped) # of their picked peltasts from the high level pergamon settlement.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Well, the idea is you'd have reformed units of such, incorporating both an increase in equipment diversity as well as more training to represent them being a more professional force incorporated directly as part of the overall Spartan military instead of just a levied auxiliary force. So for example the Thureos/Cleomenes reforms would see the Skiritai units get a little more armor and some better stats at the cost of some of their sneaky abilities, like campaign stealth. Similarly the Periokoi and Symmachoi would improve their training quality thanks to Spartans being more involved in terms of oversight and direction. The Nabis reforms would continue that, with a not-quite-Marian system of reforms keeping the Spartans at the top, but providing for good-quality third and second class troops to be recruited to bolster the inevitably depleted reserves a Spartan player will have.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    If the idea of making a separate version with only the reskinned/pre-reform units is still up, I'd encourage you to make it. Seeing how I'm running alternate economy, your mod sadly brings the recruitment and upkeep costs of some units back to non-alternate economy values. I tried loading Athens Resurgent after alternate economy but no dice. The units look lovely and it'd be a shame to not have at least them because of mod conflincts.

  17. #37
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    That's not a bad idea! I'm still working on thureos reform stuff which is when I was planning to make that split, but you bring up a good point on compatibility. I probably have included existing units in tables where (except for a few) I really only need to include the new units. I'll try to come out with a compatibility fix before the big update.

  18. #38
    Demosthenes26's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    A few WIP shots of the citizen pikemen unit (with new shields and new cheekplate/helmet combinations)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Athens Resurgent - Athens overhaul submod for DEI: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...n-amp-Overhaul
    DEI Naval Combat Guide: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...l-Combat-Guide

  19. #39
    Lupo's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Hi!

    I'm looking forward to what's to come ...

  20. #40

    Default Re: Athens Resurgent-Athens Reskin & Overhaul

    Amazing job! I just had to start a new Athens campaign with this mod. I noticed that most units have different stats from their default counterparts (i.e. athenean hoplite has less attackd and defense than standard hoplite). Is that intended or possibly a mod conflict?
    "Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan, and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

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