Standard AOR units morale discrepancies

**Maegfaer** · January 28, 2020, 05:39 PM

This concerns AOR units that can be recruited from city buildings, not Romanized auxiliary units. I think AOR units are one of DeI's most interesting features since it keeps things fresh while conquering the map, and can even give incentive to conquer particular cities. Sadly a good number of them are not viable. Their morale comparatively makes little sense when you look at their training, role and required tier of city building. For example, compare these:

Skiritai Swordsmen
Sparta, Tier 1, morale 55

Spartan (Thorax) Hoplites
Sparta, Tier 2, morale 50

Macedonian Pikemen
Pella, Tier 3, morale 35

The Spartan hoplites should probably have a better morale than the Skiritai. But especially the pikemen are disappointing here, since a morale of 35 makes them terrible in their role of holding a battle line. They also require Pella at tier 3 city building, which is a pretty significant investment in terms of research, building time, and required food before you're able to access them. These units could be very interesting to Greek factions that don't have pikemen in their standard roster, like Rhodos and the 4 Greek colony factions, giving an incentive to conquer Greece. But not with a morale of 35.

Now look at this:

Rhodian Slingers
Rhodos, Tier 2, morale 30

Rhodian Mercenary Slingers
morale 40

Sure the AOR units are cheaper in upkeep than the Mercenaries, but with a morale of 30 the AOR units are very prone to flee after taking only modest damage. Considering you need to conquer Rhodos to access the AOR while the mercenaries are readily available all over Greece to anyone, does this make sense? Currently I'd always take the mercenaries over the AOR due to morale.

Taurisci Axemen
Rome, Tier 2, morale 50

Italian Swordsmen
Rome, Tier 3, morale 35

Who would ever recruit Italian Swordsmen with a morale of 35 when you're at the stage in the game where you have Rome at tier 3? It's such a shame, because units like these are practically out of the game.

I'm currenty creating a submod to increase the morale of some AOR units, but it would be much better for compatability if they could be rebalanced in the main mod. The required city tier could also benefit from review in some cases. I realise it could be a lot of work, but perhaps people can provide feedback if they know of any AOR units that are currently not viable.

**Dresden** · January 29, 2020, 02:13 PM

By design they have about 5-10 morale less than their core roster counterpart. It only makes sense, they are fighting for a foreign power

**KAM 2150** · January 29, 2020, 02:58 PM

For some the differences come also from different times they were introduced to the mod. Most of AOR/Merc untis are not visible in custom battles so when they are some changes introduced, they are easily missed.

**Maegfaer** · January 31, 2020, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dresden

By design they have about 5-10 morale less than their core roster counterpart. It only makes sense, they are fighting for a foreign power

The core roster counterpart of Rhodian Slingers have a morale of 50 (the AOR 30), a difference of 20 morale, and assuming Bronze Shield Pikemen are the core roster counterpart of AOR Macedonian Pikemen, they have a morale of 55 vs a morale of 35, also a difference of 20 morale.

I understand KAM, that's why I drawing attention to it in the hope they can get a review in the main mod some day.

**Ptolemaios Soter** · February 02, 2020, 11:48 PM

It may be that some of these need adjusting, but I will say that in my (spectacularly fun) Galatian campaign a while back I used a core of AOR and mercenary Macedonian pikemen in all of my armies and had no problems. The only time they would route is if I used them in an offensive siege battle without sufficient support. In field battles, I so completely controlled the flanks that my pikemen never wavered from frontal attacks.

**Artannis Wolfrunner** · February 04, 2020, 08:19 PM

The discrepancy that I notice the most isn't one of core unit vs AOR unit, but rather of AOR unit vs Mercenary unit. Why do mercenaries have much higher morale than their AOR counterparts, comparable to the core roster version of the unit?

For example with Rhodian Slingers, the Mercenary version has identical stats to the AOR version except that the mercenary has 13 more morale. This is especially strange to me since AOR units have a factionwide limit before you cannot train any more, but mercenary units have no cap and can be thrown in all armies with their fast refresh. It seems not right that the AOR unit, which while fighting in the army of a foreign power is still fighting to defend their homes back in the area from which they were recruited, would then be worse than the mercenaries who fight only for money and would surely run at the first sign that the battle may go in a direction that will lead to them not being paid.

It's extremely minor since morale is never an issue past the early portion of the campaign, but it is one of those 'numbers' things that players will notice and question.

**Dumanthis** · February 05, 2020, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Artannis Wolfrunner

The discrepancy that I notice the most isn't one of core unit vs AOR unit, but rather of AOR unit vs Mercenary unit. Why do mercenaries have much higher morale than their AOR counterparts, comparable to the core roster version of the unit?

For example with Rhodian Slingers, the Mercenary version has identical stats to the AOR version except that the mercenary has 13 more morale. This is especially strange to me since AOR units have a factionwide limit before you cannot train any more, but mercenary units have no cap and can be thrown in all armies with their fast refresh. It seems not right that the AOR unit, which while fighting in the army of a foreign power is still fighting to defend their homes back in the area from which they were recruited, would then be worse than the mercenaries who fight only for money and would surely run at the first sign that the battle may go in a direction that will lead to them not being paid.

It's extremely minor since morale is never an issue past the early portion of the campaign, but it is one of those 'numbers' things that players will notice and question.

In my understanding the mercenaries are real "professional" soldiers offering their services for the pay which is significantly higher in recruit and upkeep cost than AOR units. I think it has been stated before that AOR units are supposed to depict troops of levy nature (eventhough some specialized) in some particular area, forced to fight for foreign power. Thus the lower costs but with seriously lower morale. To me this is logical.

**Artannis Wolfrunner** · February 05, 2020, 10:13 PM

I think it has been stated before that AOR units are supposed to depict troops of levy nature (eventhough some specialized) in some particular area, forced to fight for foreign power.

That makes sense, but reflecting that difference only through the morale stat doesn't make sense to me. One would think that professional troops who are paid to fight as their livelihood are going to be able to afford better equipment than levies forced to fight, but the two have identical combat stats. And of course this is a game, so it's important not to forget the game aspect of it: AOR units have a factionwide limit and mercenaries do not. Making the mercenary unit better than the AOR unit when both are recruited from the same province makes little sense to me. I'll recruit the AORs to save upkeep and then put mercenaries everywhere else. It feels like an unintentional way to circumvent the AOR unit limit that's there to make the unit more rare and special.