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Thread: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

  1. #1
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict



    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-netanya...185919987.html


    One was facing impeachment, the trial about to resume less than 2 miles away. The other was facing an indictment on corruption charges 6,000 miles away.And yet there they were, President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, together in the East Room of the White House on Tuesday afternoon to announce the release of Trump's long-delayed Israeli-Palestinian peace plan.
    There was pageantry and mutual congratulations. The only thing missing was Palestinians.
    “Forging peace between Israelis and Palestinians may be the most difficult challenge of all,” Trump said. “All prior administrations from President Lyndon Johnson have tried and bitterly failed. But I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.”
    Praising his skill as a “dealmaker,” Trump said his “vision presents a win-win opportunity for both sides — a realistic two-state solution that resolves the risk of Palestinian statehood and to Israel’s security.”

    Basically Trump legalizes apartheid in west bank. Israelis control all the areas and Palestinians feel free not to vote. Both Trump and Netaniahu face indictment charges bty. I am wondering how many bribes were taken by Trump and Kushner

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    It is brilliant to think that Palestinians making East Jerusalem their capital and Israelis making West Jerusalem their capital will lead to peaceful coexistence of these two people... the work of a stable genious \sarcasm.
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    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    If the past is any indication, Trump and Netanyahu will cosign a piece of paper amid fanfare in front of the TV cameras. GOP propaganda will declare the Israeli Palestinian conflict “solved,” and anoint Trump as the greatest statesman in the history of the world. Meanwhile nothing of consequence will actually be altered in said world. Source: North Korea.

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    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    The Palestinians get their own homeland in Israel like in good old Southafrica.

    Hasn't worked in the past, won't work now.
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Are you implying this is apartheid?
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Are you implying this is apartheid?
    Hell yes.

    Dude, a relevant party wasn’t even present.
    Last edited by Gaidin; January 28, 2020 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Are you implying this is apartheid?
    Its actually worst than south african apartheid. At least in South Africa blacks could travel from one place to another without having soldiers watching them constantly

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    irontaino's Avatar Sad ora oras
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    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    This whole thing reeks of distraction. Both Trump and Netanyahu have some bad stuff going on in their political lives and need some smoke and mirrors for the public.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    This is the best plan in history of plans. It's yuge. It's tremendous.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  10. #10

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    How people have the face to even suggest such a proposal is beyond me. This is clearly geared towards their own core voters who they're taking as fools.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It is brilliant to think that Palestinians making East Jerusalem their capital and Israelis making West Jerusalem their capital will lead to peaceful coexistence of these two people... the work of a stable genious \sarcasm.
    You mean the way Turkish and Greek Cypriots living without a major incident for decades in Nicoasia?
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; January 29, 2020 at 03:29 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Hell yes.

    Dude, a relevant party wasn’t even present.
    The Palestinians are under no obligation to accept the offer. They are free to maintain the territorial autonomy in the West Bank they negotiated in the Oslo accords and Gaza as a de facto independent state. But let’s be honest, the deal is effectively terms of surrender. In exchange for ending the conflict, they would get expanded quasi-state autonomy. The Israelis will take what they consider important to hold on to either way. It is the deal of the century only as far as it is the best deal the Palestinians are likely to be offered this century.

    Of course, the Palestinian Authority won’t accept it. They don’t even want the deal they say they want, because they know their physical survival, as much as their political survival, depends upon security cooperation with the Israelis while maintaining the façade of resistance. They’d rather continue to enrich themselves on donations from the international community. Even Netanyahu’s home is quite modest compared the palace Mahmoud Abbas recently had built for himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Its actually worst than south african apartheid. At least in South Africa blacks could travel from one place to another without having soldiers watching them constantly
    There may be some reasonable parallels that can be drawn between Bantustans and the PA's territory (the former were more like US Indian Reservations prior to 1924), but generally the comparisons between South Africa and Israel/Palestine demonstrate a (willful?) lack of understanding of the multitude of differences between the overall situations and histories.

    For example:

    • 23% of Israeli doctors are Arabs
    • 46% of Israeli pharmacists are Arabs
    • 28% of hi-tech students at the Technion are Arabs
    • 16% of the students in all of Israeli higher education are Arabs
    • 73% view “Israeli” as part of their identity
    • 77% want to see their community fully integrated into Israeli society
    Consider these numbers in light of the fact that Arab Israelis make up 21% of the population, and while Muslim Arab Israelis have a lower average income than Israeli Jews, Christian Arab Israelis actually have a higher average income than Israeli Jews. The main point of contention I've heard coming from Arab Israelis about this proposed "peace plan" is the suggestion that some predominately Arab areas of Israel should become part of the Palestinian state.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This is clearly geared towards their own core voters...
    Of course, although some of the parties who have been supporting Netanyahu are opposed to the deal because their own core voters won't accept anything less than complete annexation of the West Bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    A) You're only giving figures from one example while providing nothing from the other one, B) you're basically trying to argue degrees of discrimination.
    The Armenian Issue
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    A) You're only giving figures from one example while providing nothing from the other one, B) you're basically trying to argue degrees of discrimination.
    A) Feel free to correct me if black South Africans were in fact significantly over-represented among higher paid medical professions in South Africa, B) No, I'm not. I said the situations and histories are different in a multitude of ways and gave some examples that a reasonable person would accept as different from the circumstances of blacks in South Africa under apartheid. It was a rather low effort response on my part to an assertion that was made without any supporting data.

    I'd say the Cyprus situation you brought up is at least closer, but I imagine it would be more similar if a segment of the Greek Cypriot population were attempting to kill random Turks on at least a weekly basis. I'm sure many essentially irrelevant arguments could be made one way or the other along those lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  14. #14

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Israeli Arabs and Palestinians are not the same group of people.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  15. #15

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Israeli Arabs and Palestinians are not the same group of people.
    I believe most Palestinians would disagree with you on that, but obviously Israeli Arabs are Israeli citizens, whereas Palestinians are a hostile population among whom ~60% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #16

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I believe most Palestinians would disagree with you on that, but obviously Israeli Arabs are Israeli citizens, whereas Palestinians are a hostile population among whom ~60% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside of Israel.
    See? You're doing it again, giving numbers from one side to paint them as if they're special without providing anything from the other side.
    The Armenian Issue
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I believe most Palestinians would disagree with you on that, but obviously Israeli Arabs are Israeli citizens, whereas Palestinians are a hostile population among whom ~60% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside of Israel.
    Those are opinions, not facts. A fact remains that Israeli Arabs and Palestinians are two groups of people with a different legal status.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  18. #18

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    See? You're doing it again, giving numbers from one side to paint them as if they're special without providing anything from the other side.
    I guess no one would think to ask Israelis that question since for example, the killing of Mohammed Abu Khdeir by Jewish extremists resulted in widespread condemnation across the Israeli political spectrum, two life sentences, and a 21 year sentence for one of minors involved, whereas a Palestinian like the one who stabbed to death 13 year old Hallel Ariel in her bed at night is rewarded with lifetime payments from the Palestinian Authority. If he survives that is, otherwise the family gets the payments and the perpetrator may get a school or park or something named after him. Obviously there are some Jewish Israeli terrorists, but the mainstream Israeli view is that they are criminals.

    Balance wasn't the point of the comment though, it was to illustrate that it's not blind prejudice for Israelis to consider the majority of the Palestinian population a potential threat. After all, the vast majority of them do consider themselves enemies of Israel and ~60% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside of Israel, which is not the case for the majority of Israeli Arabs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Those are opinions, not facts. A fact remains that Israeli Arabs and Palestinians are two groups of people with a different legal status.
    I distinguished Arab Israelis by their citizenship.
    Last edited by sumskilz; January 29, 2020 at 06:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  19. #19

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I distinguished Arab Israelis by their citizenship.
    So what was the point of including Israeli Arabs in this discussion in the first place?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  20. #20

    Default Re: Meet the "Trump peace plan" for the Israel-Palestinian conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I guess no one would think to ask Israelis that question since for example, the killing of Mohammed Abu Khdeir by Jewish extremists resulted in widespread condemnation across the Israeli political spectrum, two life sentences, and a 21 year sentence for one of minors involved, whereas a Palestinian like the one who stabbed to death 13 year old Hallel Ariel in her bed at night is rewarded with lifetime payments from the Palestinian Authority. If he survives that is, otherwise the family gets the payments and the perpetrator may get a school or park or something named after him. Obviously there are some Jewish Israeli terrorists, but the mainstream Israeli view is that they are criminals.

    Balance wasn't the point of the comment though, it was to illustrate that it's not blind prejudice for Israelis to consider the majority of the Palestinian population a potential threat. After all, the vast majority of them do consider themselves enemies of Israel and ~60% support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside of Israel, which is not the case for the majority of Israeli Arabs.
    That's just a guided perception to fool people. Elor Azaria was welcomed as a hero after he was freed early serving only 9 months of his 14 months sentence for killing a wounded Palestinian captive in the head. To a lot of Israelis bombing of Gaza was a nice Saturday night movie. 83% of Israelis seemingly supported shooting of protesters on the Gaza border. Support for annexing illegal West Bank settlements pretty much divide the public as well, though if you subtract the Israeli Arabs Jews would be over-represented in one part obviously. So, perhaps, when you're trying to come up with numbers and stories you're merely trying to fool people by vilifying one group of people.
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

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