Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[Stario]

Just gotta give it time. Their death rate is also still much much worse than its neighbors around it.

At the risk of repeating myself :-< Sweden also has a much higher population that it's neighbours. Last time I checked Sweden's death rate was around 5.0 deaths per 1,000,000 (that number with the six zeros behind it is ONE-MILLION).
This is so small it's statistically insignificant.

UPDATE:
Looks like Sweden's death rate has fallen sharply (and still falling), since last time I checked- its now around 1.6 deaths per million despite no lock downs.


With that said, in hindsight, if Sweden implemented 'some' lock-downs, IE. mandatory lock downs of all those at "high risk group" they might have performed better. BUT still proof that blanket "lock downs" resulting in the destruction of the world economy was not the way to go.

[Vanoi]

At the risk of repeating myself :-< Sweden also has a much higher population that it's neighbours. Last time I checked Sweden's death rate was around 5.0 deaths per 1,000,000 (that number with the six zeros behind it is ONE-MILLION).
This is so small it's statistically insignificant.

UPDATE:
Looks like Sweden's death rate has fallen sharply (and still falling), since last time I checked- its now around 1.6 deaths per million despite no lock downs.

Nope. Sweden's population isn't significantly bigger. Its only around 4-5 million more than its neighbors. The death rates do take into account population size. In fact population matters little.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s-us-by-state/

If you compare death rates by the virus in the US, smaller states in population like South Carolina (5 million or so population) have a higher death rate than much more populated states like Texas (29 million). So the idea that Sweden's death rate is due to its higher population is .

Texas and South Carolina are also great examples of states that ended their lockdowns early and are now surging in infections and deaths.

[Stario]

So the idea that Sweden's death rate is due to its higher population is .

irrelevant!

The claim is that its death rate is only 1.6 deaths per million (statistically so small it's insignificant). AND falling much faster that UK as an example.
It's dropped from 4.11 deaths /million (highest in Europe) to only 1.6 deaths /million (within about a month).

I guess heard immunity strategy is starting to take effect....let's wait till next month and see what it drops to :->

[PointOfViewGun]

https://www.businessinsider.com/swed...-worked-2020-7
Whats going on guys? Where is the giant wave for Sweden?

At the risk of repeating myself :-< Sweden also has a much higher population that it's neighbours. Last time I checked Sweden's death rate was around 5.0 deaths per 1,000,000 (that number with the six zeros behind it is ONE-MILLION).
This is so small it's statistically insignificant.
UPDATE:
Looks like Sweden's death rate has fallen sharply (and still falling), since last time I checked- its now around 1.6 deaths per million despite no lock downs.
With that said, in hindsight, if Sweden implemented 'some' lock-downs, IE. mandatory lock downs of all those at "high risk group" they might have performed better. BUT still proof that blanket "lock downs" resulting in the destruction of the world economy was not the way to go.

irrelevant!
The claim is that its death rate is only 1.6 deaths per million (statistically so small it's insignificant). AND falling much faster that UK as an example.
It's dropped from 4.11 deaths /million (highest in Europe) to only 1.6 deaths /million (within about a month).
I guess heard immunity strategy is starting to take effect....let's wait till next month and see what it drops to :->

Sigh... For the millionth time... Sweden has 534.8 deaths per million people. For Denmark this number is 104.6, for Norway its 46.9. The death rate per million people can not fall. Math doesn't work that way. What falls is the death vs infected. Given that currently mortality rate of known cases in Sweden is 7.36, or 73,633 per million infected none of the numbers Stario provided makes sense.

As it was getting worse for Sweden they did enact lockdown measures. Gatherings over 50 people were banned. Measures have been enacted against bars and restaurants. Local municipalities expanded such limitations further. Secondary schools and museums were shut down. The government also worked through recommendations that people followed instead of bans. Most people stayed in their homes during Easter after it was suggested by the government. Sweden also has one of the best healthcare systems in the world.

Sweden's 'herd immunity' hopes are fading as only a small fraction of the population has coronavirus antibodies

A new study published this week showed that just 6.1% of Sweden's population had developed coronavirus antibodies by late May, a lower measure than some of its health agency's earlier models had predicted.

Coronavirus: Spanish study casts doubt on herd immunity feasibility

The study of more than 60,000 people estimates that around just 5% of the Spanish population has developed antibodies, the medical journal the Lancet reported.

Not much needs to be said about herd immunity...

[tgoodenow]

I'm not talking about what Sweden has been though. I'm talking about the state of Sweden at this very moment. All your fear mongering can't explain the fact that Sweden has had 13 or less deaths for 12 consecutive days. On July 8th, they had 0 deaths reported. They're averaging five deaths per day. Sure guys, their hospitals are going to be overflowing any minute now.

[Vanoi]

irrelevant!

The claim is that its death rate is only 1.6 deaths per million (statistically so small it's insignificant). AND falling much faster that UK as an example.
It's dropped from 4.11 deaths /million (highest in Europe) to only 1.6 deaths /million (within about a month).

I guess heard immunity strategy is starting to take effect....let's wait till next month and see what it drops to :->

Not irrelevant. Population size is irrelevant and a falling death rate doesn't indicate they have beat the virus as evidenced by US statistics.

[tgoodenow]

Not irrelevant. Population size is irrelevant and a falling death rate doesn't indicate they have beat the virus as evidenced by US statistics.

No one said anything about beating the virus. So your goal post has gone from "just got to give it time" till their hospitals are overwhelming to "they haven't beat it yet"?

Which is it? Will there be a massive death wave incoming or are we focusing on whether or not they've beaten it?

[PointOfViewGun]

I'm not talking about what Sweden has been though. I'm talking about the state of Sweden at this very moment. All your fear mongering can't explain the fact that Sweden has had 13 or less deaths for 12 consecutive days. On July 8th, they had 0 deaths reported. They're averaging five deaths per day. Sure guys, their hospitals are going to be overflowing any minute now.

If they didn't enact any measures their hospitals could have been overflowing, but, they did. This has been addressed already. They just did it later than other Scandinavian countries which resulted in a much higher death. You're just trying to stick to an ignorant argument.

[Vanoi]

No one said anything about beating the virus. So your goal post has gone from "just got to give it time" till their hospitals are overwhelming to "they haven't beat it yet"?

They mean the same thing. Virus is not over. Its not hard to understand. If you look at other countries they've had lulls before having surges in infections and deaths. Its you bragging about Sweden's death rate without realizing it could not be over at all. Take a lesson from George Bush. You conservatives gotta stop celebrating so early.

[tgoodenow]

Sure Chief, I’ll check back in two weeks when the virus will be causing overflows in deaths as you predicted.

POV, they have never locked down. Schools, gyms, bars, all remained open. That is not a lockdown.

[PointOfViewGun]

POV, they have never locked down. Schools, gyms, bars, all remained open. That is not a lockdown.

Nope. Many did not remain open. Bars, restaurants and cafes were first ordered to provide table service only while requiring them to place tables one or two meters apart greatly diminishing their reach to customers. Any establishment that did not met the requirements were shut down. Only school for under 16s were remained open. Upper secondary and universities were closed or switched to online classes. Schools were not kept open to avoid lockdown measures but to avoid having doctors and nurses from staying at home with their young kids instead of working at the hospital. Gatherings over 50 people have been banned as well, so no more concerts or performances in general. The government also passed around a lot of recommendations for people to stay home and Swedish people followed those recommendations. It was recommended that people skip Easter and the travel to one popular holiday destination for Swedes was down by 96%. The mobility in the capital was down by 75%. By all means, Sweden employed a more relaxed lock down procedure but they did buckle down like many other states. They just did it late and based on trusting their people. That difference still made them incur many times more deaths per capita compared to other Scandinavian countries.

[caratacus]

This is a novel coronavirus to humans, you would expect death rates to be high initially and then fall naturally as the virus adapts to its new host. The falling death rates even in countries with rising infection rates illustrate that as this disease becomes more established. Bad though it is, the death rate is only half the impact this virus will have. The real danger is what this could potentially do to the long term health of populations.

Throughout this pandemic, the complacency, indifference and total ignorance displayed by people about this virus is astounding, and is the most damaging when those individuals are responsible for public policy. It's a new and dangerous adversary and one that should be fought against as hard as possible to prevent spreading extensively into a country's populating. Those that don't, should understand that it risks chronic long term health issues.

Coronavirus warning from Italy: Effects of COVID-19 could be worse than first thought
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ought-12027348
Italian doctors are warning that COVID-19 is not just a respiratory disease but a killer affecting the whole body. The long-term effects of COVID-19, even on people who suffered a mild infection, could be far worse than was originally anticipated, according to researchers and doctors in northern Italy. Psychosis, insomnia, kidney disease, spinal infections, strokes, chronic tiredness and mobility issues are being identified in former coronavirus patients in Lombardy, the worst-affected region in the country. The doctors warn that some victims may never recover from the illness and that all age groups are vulnerable.

As Covid-19 persists around the world, death is not the only outcome to fear
https://www.theguardian.com/world/co...utcome-to-fear
There are worrying trends about long-term damage, even in those with milder symptoms

[Ludicus]

'herd immunity' hopes are fading as only a small fraction of the population has coronavirus antibodies

study casts doubt on herd immunity feasibility


Not much needs to be said about herd immunity...

Well, we really don't know yet.Neutralizing antibodies don't tell us the whole story. Immune response involves both antibody and cell-mediated immunity production. Both B and T cells participate in immune-mediated protection to viral COVID infection. We need to know accurately the degree of CD4⁺ and CD8⁺ T cell responses in an high number of recovered patients (still unknown)
There are recovered patients who don't exhibit significant neutralizing antibodies, and yet they have detectable virus-specific T cell function.

---
Edit.
Let's also keep in mind that the required percentage that would have been required to establish herd immunity against previous influenza viruses ranged from 13% to 100% for the 1918–19, 1957–58, 1968–69 and 2009–10 pandemic viruses, and from 30% to 40% for the 2008–09 epidemic virus.

[sumskilz]

Well, we really don't know yet.Neutralizing antibodies don't tell us the whole story. Immune response involves both antibody and cell-mediated immunity production. Both B and T cells participate in immune-mediated protection to viral COVID infection. We need to know accurately the degree of CD4⁺ and CD8⁺ T cell responses in an high number of recovered patients (still unknown)
There are recovered patients who don't exhibit significant neutralizing antibodies, and yet they have detectable virus-specific T cell function.

You are correct of course, but I don't see much reason to be optimistic.

Let's also keep in mind that the required percentage that would have been required to establish herd immunity against previous influenza viruses ranged from 13% to 100% for the 1918–19, 1957–58, 1968–69 and 2009–10 pandemic viruses, and from 30% to 40% for the 2008–09 epidemic virus.

Herd immunity = 1 - 1/R0

So if you have a good estimate of the R0, you have a good estimate of what would be required to achieve herd immunity. If the R0 is 3, then herd immunity starts at about 67%.

[Ukiah]

This virus is not to be taken lightly.

[Coughdrop addict]

White House tells hospitals to bypass CDC on COVID-19 data reporting

CDC wouldn’t lie about the numbers of dead and infected for Trump, so now he's telling hospitals to report to an agency headed by his henchman that will lie to make him look better. Just like China and Russia. By Thursday we can assume the real numbers will be at least double the Trump-approved count.

[PointOfViewGun]

So, after WHO, CDC is a Chinese patsy as well?

[Gigantus]

Well, if you can't control the virus then you better control the info about it, right? AKA if you can't find something to make the boss look good then you need to do something about the stuff that makes him look bad.

[swabian]

Well, if you can't control the virus then you better control the info about it, right? AKA if you can't find something to make the boss look good then you need to do something about the stuff that makes him look bad.

What does the provider think?

[Gigantus]

What does the provider think?

Please specify who you mean with 'provider' (of what?).