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Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #161
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    OMG, Hahaha! It took me five minutes to quit laughing. I hope you wasted your time reading all those pages. Too funny. Agencies always ask for more than they actually expect to get and they always make sure to spend all the money that's left at the end of the year. I can't remember a single year that bosses did not come around and ask for a list of things to buy so the money could be spent.
    You are obligated to spend the money congress decided to give that's how it works.

    -----

    https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/p...dget/index.htm

    You do realize you posting the budget of just element of the CDC right?

    Hey look at Trump proposed budget for the ncezid... in 2020 And note a flat line is an effective cut due to inflation.

    https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/who-we-are/budget.html


    You are also of course failing to differentiate between what Trump prosed and what congress did. FOr example with the NIH

    https://www.genomeweb.com/policy-leg...t#.XlfUBUp7mHs

    Sure he signed it for 2020 but he wanted cuts.


    ------------

    @ Gigantus

    His handling of HIV in Indiana does not inspire confidence.
    Last edited by conon394; February 27, 2020 at 08:38 AM.
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  2. #162
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    It's unlikely this virus will magically pass the US by without casualties.
    Obviously, it's just a question of days. And guess what-I have been saying this-the for profit American healthcare system is poised to worsen the outbreak.

    Edit,
    And more: in the US, according to the National Nurses United, in a survey of 4,700 respondents from 48 states, only 9 percent reported that there is a plan in place to isolate a patient with a possible COVID-19 infection; 77 percent reported they didn't know if there was a plan.
    --------
    So far,50 countries have confirmed cases around the world. As Italy death toll rises this country is the European's top coronavirus... "exporter".
    The question of travel bans/ border controls is the responsibility of the various countries- and yet Europe refuses to close borders. Generally speaking, European countries and officials believe reintroducing border checks will not contribute anyhow to the slowdown of the virus spreading in Europe. The Prime Minister of Italy feels offended when asked whether Italy would shut down borders as a prevention measure, "Suspend Schengen? But what do we want to make of Italy, a lazaretto?!This is a draconian measure that does not meet the needs of Italian citizens in the field of containment of infection"
    Meanwhile, here, with a pandemic at door no one returning from Italy has been confirmed as positive for the virus. It's just a question of...hours.Hours.
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 27, 2020 at 10:32 AM.
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  3. #163

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    As always, there's a Trump tweet for every occasion...

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...37015329193984

    Obama just appointed an Ebola Czar with zero experience in the medical area and zero experience in infectious disease control. A TOTAL JOKE!
    Trump really is a hypocritical moron...

  4. #164
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    There is no particular line item for building reduction. At least not that I found in the Trump proposed budget. Building and Facilities actually get a bump. While programs are de funded - re personal cuts.
    I guess you're having trouble reading. This is from the PDF Gigantic is referring to:

    - Buildings and Facilities - HCL (BA) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)-- Buildings and Facilities - HCL (NEF) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)

    *the numbers are in thousands of dollars*

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Thanks for confirming the page that I got the PDF document from that I am referencing. Do kindly have a look at the bottom, that's where the link to the PDF is. The one with a reduced CDC budget, even after the building maintenance you explained, the one I provided the screenshots from, the one you responded to.

    You will then notice that all figures I am mentioning are factual and amount to a mild cut in the CDC budget and no 'whataboutism' shouting is going to change anything about it.

    My premise is that your (now repeated) claim that there are no cuts in the CDC budget is factually wrong. And I demonstrated it using material you yourself linked to.

    You copied the 'Summary' section of my post, did you read it?



    See above for the source of my figures.


    GENERAL

    For some reason everyone appears to be thinking that I am arguing CDC budget changes vis à vis Health budget changes while my only tangential mention of it was the budget speech itself as reference for the CDC figures in my first post.

    How many sources\links\screenshots does it take to make it obvious that I am only talking about the CDC budget? How many times do I have to painstakingly make sure to use references to the CDC budget to avoid ambiguity?

    Apologies for not making provisions for reflexive responses and automatic assumptions but then comparing the CDC budgets of the last years initially (and never mentioning the total health budget in any form) should have been enough of a give away, right?


    Edit: maybe someone can answer me this simple question: "Why would I be interested in discussing the full health budget in a discussion about the corona virus - instead of focusing on the CDC that actually deals with the virus?"
    yes, I did read it. See above. You still haven't selected a single line item from the official CDC budget report that I posted that shows a program cut. That's because there aren't any.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Again re my post above 151. No Building or facility cuts but program cuts.
    Just in case you missed the first one:

    - Buildings and Facilities - HCL (BA) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)-- Buildings and Facilities - HCL (NEF) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    You are obligated to spend the money congress decided to give that's how it works.
    This is just flat out wrong. There is no obligation to spend all the money that comes from the budget. All the money is spent so there isn't an excuse for Congress to reduce the following year's budget. You are flat out making things up.

    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/p...dget/index.htm

    You do realize you posting the budget of just element of the CDC right?

    Hey look at Trump proposed budget for the ncezid... in 2020 And note a flat line is an effective cut due to inflation.

    https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/who-we-are/budget.html


    You are also of course failing to differentiate between what Trump prosed and what congress did. FOr example with the NIH

    https://www.genomeweb.com/policy-leg...t#.XlfUBUp7mHs

    Sure he signed it for 2020 but he wanted cuts.
    You have made it clear that you are willing to go to any length to cover up for left-wing media lying. It is just that simple.

    They lied. Admit it.
    Last edited by B. W.; February 27, 2020 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #165
    Genava's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Trump administration budget cuts could become a major problem as coronavirus spreads

    The Trump administration recently requested $2.5 billion in emergency funds to prepare the U.S. for a possible widespread outbreak of coronavirus. Critics, though, are pointing out that money might not be necessary if the administration hadn’t spent the past two years largely dismantling government units that were designed to protect against pandemics.

    The cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.

    That same year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was forced to slash its efforts to prevent global disease outbreak by 80% as its funding for the program began to run out. The agency, at the time, opted to focus on 10 priority countries and scale back in others, including China.

    Also cut was the Complex Crises Fund, a $30 million emergency response pool that was at the secretary of state’s disposal to deploy disease experts and others in the event of a crisis. (The fund was created by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.)

    Overall in 2018, Trump called for $15 billion in reduced health spending that had previously been approved, as he looked at increasing budget deficits, cutting the global disease-fighting budgets of the CDC, National Security Council (NSC), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and Health and Human Services (HHS) in the process.

    The effects of those cuts are being felt today. While the CDC announced plans to test people with flu-like symptoms for COVID-19, those have been delayed and only three of the country’s 100 public-health labs have been able to test for coronavirus. The administration’s request for additional funding came roughly two weeks after officials said HHS was almost out of funding for its response to the virus.

    https://fortune.com/2020/02/26/coron...cuts-us-trump/

    From 2019
    President’s budget would hinder US public health progress: Huge cuts proposed
    Kim Krisberg
    The Nation's Health May 2019, 49 (3) 1-14;
    http://thenationshealth.aphapublicat...ntent/49/3/1.2
    Open Access Defenders Step Up to Save ‘Pirate Bay of Science’
    https://nerdist.com/article/open-acc...brary-genesis/

  6. #166
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    So Iran's health minister and vice president both have contracted the virus. Its looking like Iran will become a new center of the epidemic.

  7. #167
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    - Buildings and Facilities - HCL (BA) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)-- Buildings and Facilities - HCL (NEF) $240,000 $0 ($240,000)
    Can provide a post number we have done enough link tossing i am not sure which post you me for the origin of the link.

    You have made it clear that you are willing to go to any length to cover up for left-wing media lying. It is just that simple.
    How exactly by finding a different part of the CDC (and NIH) Trump wanted cut and did succeed in many places even with congress pushing back?

    And this is not a cut

    https://www.cdc.gov/funding/document...apshot-508.pdf

    2018 - 2019

    Also again pretty much every global pandemic response was slashed.

    edit




    Sorry BW Trump Budget request do not show an administration that gives a rat f--- about science. Unless it is military wow tech.

    2018 - 2019

    https://www.aaas.org/news/update-age...cience-funding
    Last edited by conon394; February 27, 2020 at 12:38 PM.
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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #168
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Can provide a post number we have done enough link tossing i am not sure which post you me for the origin of the link.



    How exactly by finding a different part of the CDC (and NIH) Trump wanted cut and did succeed in many places even with congress pushing back?

    And this is not a cut

    https://www.cdc.gov/funding/document...apshot-508.pdf

    2018 - 2019

    Also again pretty much every global pandemic response was slashed.
    I proved my point. The news media lied. Continuing to engage you on this issue is fruitless as you will keep moving the goalposts and drifting from one vague marker to another. Cutting dead weight and increasing efficiency in government operations is not a cut.

    I saw the same media attempts to distort reality after watching the Presidential briefing last night. I followed it up by watching Anderson Cooper's show and it was obvious that they either didn't watch the same briefing I did or were intentionally distorting what the President actually said. No surprise. It's just leftists being leftists.

    These are the people who have been clamoring for open borders and allowing people to enter the country without any health checks whatsoever and now they are claiming we would all be safer if only they had been in charge. Only the completely indoctrinated would beleive such claims.

    Moving on; it seems another highly placed Iranian official has come down with the disease:

    https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/...h-coronavirus/

  9. #169

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    AP Fact Check on claims re CDC and NIH preparedness:
    https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

    Key take away re the funding discussion:
    "The National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention aren’t suffering from budget cuts that never took effect."

  10. #170
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I see. So Trump has advocated budget cuts, which is bad, but the budget itself has actually increased thanks to Congress.
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  11. #171
    Genava's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I see. So Trump has advocated budget cuts, which is bad, but the budget itself has actually increased thanks to Congress.
    Is it only the recent advocated cuts or also the older ones like in 2018 with a 80% cut of the program to prevent global disease outbreak ?
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  12. #172

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    Is it only the recent advocated cuts or also the older ones like in 2018 with a 80% cut of the program to prevent global disease outbreak ?
    As far as I can tell, there were no older cuts:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #173
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    Is it only the recent advocated cuts or also the older ones like in 2018 with a 80% cut of the program to prevent global disease outbreak ?
    I've seen reports Trump dismantled foreign aid and NSC entities tasked with pandemic control across his term.

    It seems typical of th hysterical US press to blather about nonsense "Trump defunded the CDC" when it's a matter of public record it's been more or less stymied by Congress, and they ignore the more nuanced and complex reality . I guess Democrats would like to blame Trump for the virus in the same way Republicans tried to blame Obama for racism.

    Overall Trump's mania for shrinking state control of business has probably decreased state capacity to respond to this threat: he pushed that admiral fella to resign which may be why some Dems are gabbling about the loss of leadership.

    Trump's rambling and inane public statements confuse the public when clear sober information is needed, to a lesser extent these candidates are confusing things too. They're not in charge though. Be good to have a leader in the Whitehouse right now rather than an ageing reality TV star that can't utter a word without embarrasing himself.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  14. #174

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It seems typical of th hysterical US press to blather about nonsense "Trump defunded the CDC" when it's a matter of public record it's been more or less stymied by Congress, and they ignore the more nuanced and complex reality . I guess Democrats would like to blame Trump for the virus in the same way Republicans tried to blame Obama for racism.
    They smell blood...

    Meanwhile: Coronavirus could cost Trump the election, Goldman Sachs warns
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  15. #175
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I think Trump supporters can rest easy in the knowledge that if there’s one thing Democrats are great at, it’s snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

  16. #176
    Genava's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    As far as I can tell, there were no older cuts:
    For the Global Health Budget yes, but the CDC is a different thing. It seems to be only partially related to the US Global Health. I am not sure if there was cut or not in the CDC in 2018, the news reports are unclear in regards with the fact-check:

    It is also true that in 2018 the Trump administration fired key officials connected to the U.S. pandemic response, and they were not replaced.

    Also in 2018, news reports circulated that detailed the Trump administration’s cut by 80% to the CDC’s program that worked in various countries to fight epidemics. “Countries where the CDC is planning to scale back include some of the world’s hot spots for emerging infectious disease, such as China, Pakistan, Haiti, Rwanda and Congo,” the Washington Post reported in 2018.

    The fact that epidemic prevention-efforts were scaled back in China gained new significance in February 2020 as coronavirus spread globally after it was first detected in Wuhan, China, in late 2019.
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/
    And

    The cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.

    That same year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) was forced to slash its efforts to prevent global disease outbreak by 80% as its funding for the program began to run out. The agency, at the time, opted to focus on 10 priority countries and scale back in others, including China.
    https://fortune.com/2020/02/26/coron...cuts-us-trump/
    There was also a proposal in 2019 to cut the CDC budget for 2020, did it happen or not?

    Trump released his fiscal year 2020 federal budget proposal in March, recommending huge cuts across the federal government, including a 12 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and a 10 percent cut for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    At CDC, a reduction of that magnitude equates to a $750 million spending cut over fiscal year 2019. APHA member John Auerbach, MBA, president and CEO of Trust for America’s Health, said the proposed CDC cuts not only threaten federal public health capacity, they would have a “devastating” impact on state and local public health departments, which depend heavily on CDC dollars flowing down to the community level.
    http://thenationshealth.aphapublicat...ntent/49/3/1.2
    Open Access Defenders Step Up to Save ‘Pirate Bay of Science’
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  17. #177

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    For the Global Health Budget yes, but the CDC is a different thing... I am not sure if there was cut or not in the CDC in 2018, the news reports are unclear in regards with the fact-check
    I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is included to in that. Should be page 10 of the PDF I linked before. You can see the annual CDC budget for "Global Disease Detection and Emergency Response". It has increased over the course of Trump's presidency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    There was also a proposal in 2019 to cut the CDC budget for 2020, did it happen or not?
    It didn't. That's what the AP fact check Infidel144 posted is about. The US federal budget is decided by congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #178
    Genava's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    I'm pretty sure what you're referring to is included to in that. Should be page 10 of the PDF I linked before. You can see the annual CDC budget for "Global Disease Detection and Emergency Response". It has increased over the course of Trump's presidency.
    The CDC is partially funded by the Global Health. Look at the numbers. The annual budget of the CDC should be around 10 billions. So the increase in global disease detection funding from the Global Health could be related to a compensation for decreasing funds elsewhere.

    In my understanding, the US Global Health and the CDC are two different things. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    It didn't. That's what the AP fact check Infidel144 posted is about. The US federal budget is decided by congress.
    I wasn't sure because I find it weird that the congress is debating the current budget for 2020 in 2020. I thought the current debate was about the recent 2021 budget proposed by Trump:

    And Trump released his proposed 2021 budget on February 11, 2020, which in addition to cutting the CDC’s budget by 16%, also calls for a 10% overall reduction for HHS. Internationally, Trump wants to cut the U.S.’ contribution to the World Health Organization by $65 million, a 40% reduction. (The U.S. accounts for about 2.5% of WHO’s $4.8 billion budget.)
    But maybe you are right. I was asking only to understand.
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  19. #179

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I see. So Trump has advocated budget cuts, which is bad, but the budget itself has actually increased thanks to Congress.
    Yes, but the thread discussion in particular isn't talking about the proposed budget, but rather cuts in the past budgets.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    The CDC is partially funded by the Global Health. Look at the numbers. The annual budget of the CDC should be around 10 billions. So the increase in global disease detection funding from the Global Health could be related to a compensation for decreasing funds elsewhere.

    In my understanding, the US Global Health and the CDC are two different things. Correct me if I am wrong.
    That PDF only includes the portion of the CDC's budget relevant to global health. On the table on page 10, you'll see the CDC received one time emergency funding in 2015 to deal with Ebola. The operations that were scaled back by 80% in 2018 were related to that, because that money had run out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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