Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[Gaidin]

He worked his ass off to gut the NHS, ignored the virus and urged his followers to do the same. Now he faces the possibility of dying in an underfunded NHS hospital of the very virus he downplayed. The irony is hilarious. Trump next

I'm pretty sure you need to find another target of irony. Just like in the US, anybody in or above the House of Commons has very little to worry about where they're going to get their healthcare no matter what they try to do to the NHS.

[Heathen Hammer]

Another tough lesson for pompous urban dystopias: When you shun the nation, the nation is likely to shun you back.

[Gaidin]

I'm not sure you know what a dystopia is.

[Gigantus]

I am starting to wonder if Hydroxychloroquine is becoming the new wall\election promise for Trump, and not in any good way. After falsely claiming that the FDA had approved the drug for corona virus treatment he now threatens India to release their stocks - after Modi had already signaled willingness to help.

The country is in lock down (all 1.3billion citizens of it) and depends for supply of raw material for the drug on China, making their export ban for the drug understandable as there is no means of restocking. The irony here being that Modi appears to take his buddy's claims regarding the drug's approved use seriously.

Source

"I will save you and India will pay (if they don't help me)"

Really? What is the US going to retaliate with anyhow that has any meaning at this time? Trade tariff increase? Ban on export of ventilators and PPE? More restrictions on N1H1 visas? Moving call centers back to the US?

Edit: sad thing here is that I actually started to have some hope since last week that he would become a responsible and 'live in the now' politician - guess 'the frog and the scorpion' can't be denied.

[alhoon]

Just going to requote this.


He [Khan] didn't say it [coronavirus] was a hoax like Trump did


False quote:
https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...rds-coronavir/

You are doing just what Biden did.
Even the lefty hacks at Politifact could not bring themselves to support that...


I said: "And you claimed there was 10 days between coronavirus coming to US and Europe."
You claimed:

Denying your own statements and making false quotes. And you object to me saying you are getting as bad as the lefties around here...

I am not denying my statements, I am clarifying them, or trying to as apparently I have not.

Let's start: He [Khan] didn't say it [reaction to Covid-19] was a hoax". <=== that's what I said.

The "First Restrictions were by late February and the virus arrived ~10 days after it did in USA." = "Europe acted before USA although the first cases showed up later." as a reply that March 12 was early enough. It was not.
This is what I said in the previous post "Do you mean perhaps my (correct) claim that USA got the Coronavirus at a different date than many European countries? USA got it a few days before France and a couple of weeks before Italy. And still, Trump was slower to put up measures than many European countries. " as a reply to your statement here that I didn't understand.
And I still don't understand, mind you. What are you trying to say there?

As mentioned, what I said is that USA had the virus before European countries (by 3 days for France, more for other countries like Italy) and they still started implementing measures later.
And I am saying all that because those lost days and weeks are the reason USA got such bigger increase in cases than the European countries that took it seriously and implemented lockdowns. Johnson that tried for "Herd Immunity" quickly backtracked and his country is paying the price.

I.e. Establishment politicians did the right thing, Trump and Johnson did not.


Politifact doesn't allow me to read the article but that quote was from his rally and you can see him saying it with his own mouth here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE
It is not a false quote, he said it.

[sumskilz]

I am starting to wonder if Hydroxychloroquine is becoming the new wall\election promise for Trump, and not in any good way. After falsely claiming that the FDA had approved the drug for corona virus treatment...

Trump didn't make any false claims about hydroxychloroquine. He expressed optimism and thanked the FDA for approving it for compassionate use, which they did.

[PointOfViewGun]

Trump didn't make any false claims about hydroxychloroquine. He expressed optimism and thanked the FDA for approving it for compassionate use, which they did.

He hyped the drug as a game changer. It's quite an understatement to say that he expressed optimism about it. From March 21:

HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents).....be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, and GOD BLESS EVERYONE! @US_FDA @SteveFDA @CDCgov @DHSgov

[sumskilz]

He hyped the drug as a game changer. It's quite an understatement to say that he expressed optimism about it. From March 21:

Reading the French study that just came out at the time, it was reasonable to conclude that it had the potential to be a game changer.

[alhoon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-peter-navarro

Trump was warned about the devastating effects of the Virus in late January, before saying that it's just 15 people sick and how good job they are doing.

"Donald Trump was warned at the end of January by one of his top White House advisers that coronavirus had the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and derail the US economy, unless tough action were taken immediately, new memos have revealed.
The memos were written by Trump’s economic adviser, Peter Navarro, and circulated via the National Security Council widely around the White House and federal agencies.
They show that even within the Trump administration alarm bells were ringing by late January, at a time when the president was consistently downplaying the threat of Covid-19."

[Coughdrop addict]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-peter-navarro

Trump was warned about the devastating effects of the Virus in late January, before saying that it's just 15 people sick and how good job they are doing.

"Donald Trump was warned at the end of January by one of his top White House advisers that coronavirus had the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and derail the US economy, unless tough action were taken immediately, new memos have revealed.
The memos were written by Trump’s economic adviser, Peter Navarro, and circulated via the National Security Council widely around the White House and federal agencies.
They show that even within the Trump administration alarm bells were ringing by late January, at a time when the president was consistently downplaying the threat of Covid-19."

I was just coming here to post that.
Trump says he didn't see Navarro memos but wouldn't have changed course if he had

Because the only other option is that Trump did something less than awesome and perfect.

[Cyclops]

I don't think Trump's administration is staggeringly incompetent. He personally has embarrassed himself as a cringeworthy buffoon who can't read a cue card or remember basic facts but his government, and the ramshackle nexus of US governments has gotten a few things done. The braindead TV princess blathers on about his enemies and his imaginary victories but problematic behaviour from his team like a relatively sluggish response and some mixed messages aren't worse than say Italy (which has a tighter centralised government) or Spain (a looser federal structure with maybe some roughly analogous problems to the US with regionally disparate responses).

Given the idiot Democrats and idiot Republicans cheerfully waste time with their partisan sniping much to the US' problems are systemic, so Red/Blue and not Orange at all.

Reading the French study that just came out at the time, it was reasonable to conclude that it had the potential to be a game changer.

Weird flex to imply Trump is moonlighting as a Francophone pharmaceutical peer reviewer but OK.



Seriously though the guy was excited because he thought the F35 was invisible, lets not try to position his opinion in a framework of scientific understanding.

[Gigantus]

Reading the French study that just came out at the time, it was reasonable to conclude that it had the potential to be a game changer.

That's not what either PofVG or myself have an issue with, given that the president didn't make a reference to it.

This comment by Trump:
....a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You!

is referring to

The emergency use authorization by the FDA:
This EUA is for the unapproved use of hydroxychloroquine sulfate ...


The text clearly states that it is for compassionate use only (if all else fails) and that the use is otherwise unapproved for treatment of covid19. Touting it as the second coming of penicillin using misleading information is simply irresponsible.

This is what the FDA has approved the treatment with hydroxychloroquine sulfate for:

Among several actions take this week in in its ongoing response effort to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Food and Drug Administration approved an Abbreviated New Drug Application (ANDA) for Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate Tablets USP, 200mg. for the treatment of:

• Uncomplicated malaria due to P. falciparum, P. malariae, P. ovale, and P. vivax.
• (2) Chronic discoid lupus erythematosus and systemic lupus erythematosus in adults and
• (3) Treatment of acute and chronic rheumatoid arthritis in adults.

The ANDA was submitted by Accord Healthcare, a UK-based subsidiary of Indian biopharma company Intas Pharmaceuticals. The FDA did not in this instance approve the drug for the treatment of the new coronavirus.

[PointOfViewGun]

Reading the French study that just came out at the time, it was reasonable to conclude that it had the potential to be a game changer.

What Gigantus said. The president is not a hype man. He is the most important administrator in the country. There was no need to downplay his words like you did.

[sumskilz]

Weird flex to imply Trump is moonlighting as a Francophone pharmaceutical peer reviewer but OK.



Seriously though the guy was excited because he thought the F35 was invisible, lets not try to position his opinion in a framework of scientific understanding.

As I remember, he shared the study on twitter the same day. I'm sure someone summarized it for him, because the factcheckable aspects of the tweet various media outlets were quoting in order to claim he was spreading misinformation, were an accurate representation the study's conclusions.

That's not what either PofVG or myself have an issue with, given that the president didn't make a reference to it.

I doubt Trump managed to pull something out of his ass that just happened to accurately match the study's conclusions. If you don't even have passing knowledge of the scientific literature on the topic, why are you so certain he was spreading misinformation?

This comment by Trump:
....a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You!

is referring to

The emergency use authorization by the FDA:
This EUA is for the unapproved use of hydroxychloroquine sulfate ...


The text clearly states that it is for compassionate use only (if all else fails) and that the use is otherwise unapproved for treatment of covid19.

This is exactly what I said.

Touting it as the second coming of penicillin using misleading information is simply irresponsible.

Trump has a penchant for hyperbole, but as I said, it was reasonable to conclude that it had the potential to be a game changer. That may still be the case. Sorry, but you're just outing yourself as less informed than Trump on the topic.

[Infidel144]

I am not denying my statements, I am clarifying them, or trying to as apparently I have not.

Let's start: He [Khan] didn't say it [reaction to Covid-19] was a hoax". <=== that's what I said.

"like Trump did".

You and I quote:
"He didn't say it was a hoax like Trump did"

The "First Restrictions were by late February and the virus arrived ~10 days after it did in USA." = "Europe acted before USA although the first cases showed up later."

You: 10 days after

It did not arrive ten days after. The wiki article has it as 6 days.

Politifact doesn't allow me to read the article but that quote was from his rally and you can see him saying it with his own mouth here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE
It is not a false quote, he said it.

You quote Trump as saying:
"Now, the Democrats are politicising the coronavirus. This is their new hoax."
The video you provide, like the Biden video Politifraud addresses (saying "Ad Watch: Biden video twists Trump’s words on coronavirus"), redacts a good portion of what Trump said.
A clue for you might be paying attention to the fade outs in the video you linked to.
And you redact (without attribution), in your false quote, more than the video you provided did.

You: "Now, the Democrats are politicising the coronavirus. [the video you provide then has something like 40 words, then fades out, then provides] "And this is their new hoax." (while redacting ca. 50 words).

Continuing with your false assertions, false claims, false quotes and denials of your own statements is pointless.

[Infidel144]

Trump didn't make any false claims about hydroxychloroquine. He expressed optimism and thanked the FDA for approving it for compassionate use, which they did.

Isn't Cuomo touting this hydroxychloroquine thing as well?

[Gigantus]

This is exactly what I said.

I agree with that, it's just not what the president said.

Edit: once you are through objecting to me using that phrase do you think you could respond to the actual premise of my post? Or do I take the cherry picking and the absence of any comment otherwise as acquiescence?

[Copperknickers II]

This bickering over hydroxychloroquine is bizarre - there's little evidence it's effective, and even in the best case scenario it's not exactly a miracle cure given its side effects and its poor potential to lower the death rate. Don't forget also that it's sometimes used to treat malaria, so using on a large scale for Covid risks robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Meanwhile, in more important news, Covid-19 has become the no.1 cause of death in the USA. Our thoughts and prayers are with the US at this time.
And also with Stario, who will be forced to finally retire his 'BUT MUH CAR ACCIDENTS' spiel for good.

https://public.flourish.studio/visua...YSc9x5T0_T5_ro

[Gigantus]

Don't forget also that it's sometimes used to treat malaria, so using on a large scale for Covid risks robbing Peter to pay Paul.

India has a large number of malaria cases and related deaths every year - hence it's rather a case of robbing threatening Narendra to pay Donald.

[sumskilz]

Isn't Cuomo touting this hydroxychloroquine thing as well?

Yeah, the side effects are already well-studied and it's inexpensive to produce, so it's sort of foolish not to be behind it under the circumstances, which is why there are now a lot of trials taking place.

This bickering over hydroxychloroquine is bizarre - there's little evidence it's effective, and even in the best case scenario it's not exactly a miracle cure given its side effects and its poor potential to lower the death rate.

Although it's easy to overdose, the side effects are not a big deal for most people when properly dosed. If the proposed mechanism (which has been observed in vitro) works as expected, then it could significantly reduce the death rate if administered early. Here is a preprint of a replication of the Gautret et al study. Although the second study didn't explore the combination Gautret et al found most effective. Hydroxychloroquine plus zinc supplementation seems the most promising to me. If I remember correctly, there is a trial in the works for that as well.