Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #3981
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    Amazingly, and I know this may be hard for some people to understand, other people also matter. It's kind of a thing we are supposed to learn and accept when we are younger

    Dutch hospitals postpone chemotherapy, organ transplants due to COVID-19 surge


    At this point, it is a moral imperative to make vaccination compulsory.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 25, 2021 at 08:25 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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  2. #3982

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    At this point it is moral imperative to defund governments and put politicians that were behind lockdowns and vaccine mandates on trial, then loot bank accounts in their or their family's ownership to pay reparations for damages they did to businesses and individuals, then to do the same thing to pharmaceutical corporations by breaking their oligopolies and forcing them to pay back the damages they did as well.

  3. #3983
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    At this point it is moral imperative to defund governments and put politicians that were behind lockdowns and vaccine mandates on trial, then loot bank accounts in their or their family's ownership to pay reparations for damages they did to businesses and individuals...
    Around the world, unnvaccinated patients fill coronavirus beds. We are all aware that developing regulatory solutions to combat fake news is challenging.Reports July and August 2021 – Fighting COVID-19 Disinformation
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  4. #3984

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Indeed, corrupt and often criminal Commonwealth/European Union governments have been a major source of disinformation along with corporate media. For example, government and police forces in Australia are literal scum of the Earth, that think its acceptable to act like Mao only because there is a flu.

  5. #3985
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    think its acceptable to act like Mao only because there is a flu.
    It is not a flu, doctors soon will start making decisions about who gets the most immediate care by their probability of survival,and this would apply to Covid and non covid patients.There is a a legal framework for exceptional circumstances,
    ---
    A state of emergency is a -temporary situation in which exceptional powers are granted to the executive and exceptional rules apply in response to and with a view to overcoming an extraordinary situation posing a fundamental threat to a country.
    RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE
    Edit,
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Indeed, corrupt and often criminal Commonwealth/European Union.
    The EU does have many, many,many flaws, I completely agree, but also some some qualities.At least, the EU has fully embraced the Universal Declaration of Human Rights' significance, using it to set standards in its internal legislation and international agreements, and to guide its external policy. Where does the US stand on UN human rights conventions? It’s all about "reservations". Allow me to remind you that in order to ratify the Convention on Civil and Political Rights, the U.S. designated the treaty's first 27 articles as non-self- executing. To ratify the Convention on Elimination of Racial Discrimination, the U.S. designated the entire treaty as non-self-executing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Masks have not been shown to protect the wearer.
    Aren’t you jealous? The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation - N.York Times...

    ----

    Last edited by Ludicus; November 25, 2021 at 09:40 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  6. #3986

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Judging by behaviors of government of Germany and Austria, EU clearly does not respect human rights, while its posturing for UN is just that, fake motions that don't really mean anything other then making themselves look good while they blatantly violate the same regulation they posture to support.
    At the end of the day, the big problem here is that government officials are forgetting their place as public servants and try to act like some priveledged royalty instead. Government officials are overpaid and are are nothing the useless parasites , who are using Chinese virus to give themselves more wealth and power.

  7. #3987
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    What astounds me is that hospitals haven’t taken advantage of ebb periods between virus waves to expand capacity. How many hospitals have taken action to build or annex other buildings for care rooms, recruit more staff, and procure more equipment?

  8. #3988

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I did not state that masks were ineffective. In response to a comment about an individual who was not able to wear a mask, I stated that masks do not protect the wearer (i.e. that a specific immunocompromised person being unable to wear a mask is irrelevant).



  9. #3989
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    What astounds me is that hospitals haven’t taken advantage of ebb periods between virus waves to expand capacity. How many hospitals have taken action to build or annex other buildings for care rooms, recruit more staff, and procure more equipment?
    In reality, most have where they can.

    But there's also a catch 22 here. Hospitals are also spending this time catching up on elective or lower priority procedures that are put on hold during busier periods. They're also increasingly struggling to fill rosters, as health care professionals are burning out and leaving the industry. Where hospitals are state funded, there are often funding limitations on what kinds of expansions can be undertaken. Where they're not funding priorities are with BAU.

    My sister is an emergency nurse in the UK. Her hospital built an entire new wing over summer last year. She has a heart condition that prevents her from working with Covid patients, so she was moved out of public facing roles while many of her co-workers spent months training over summer. In the city I live in, two hospitals were entirely turned over to Covid, and capacity was expanded massively.

    But expanded capacity can't be held in place indefinitely, and dedicated staff have to go back to business as usual in between. And the scariest part is that in some places, expanded capacity is superseded. In other places, it isn't utilised - leaving funders reluctant to approve more when the need does arise.
    Last edited by antaeus; November 25, 2021 at 04:10 PM. Reason: tidied up
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  10. #3990
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    What astounds me is that hospitals haven’t taken advantage of ebb periods between virus waves to expand capacity. How many hospitals have taken action to build or annex other buildings for care rooms, recruit more staff, and procure more equipment?
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    In reality, most have where they can.

    But there's also a catch 22 here. Hospitals are also spending this time catching up on elective or lower priority procedures that are put on hold during busier periods. They're also increasingly struggling to fill rosters, as health care professionals are burning out and leaving the industry. Where hospitals are state funded, there are often funding limitations on what kinds of expansions can be undertaken. Where they're not funding priorities are with BAU.

    My sister is an emergency nurse in the UK. Her hospital built an entire new wing over summer last year. She has a heart condition that prevents her from working with Covid patients, so she was moved out of public facing roles while many of her co-workers spent months training over summer. In the city I live in, two hospitals were entirely turned over to Covid, and capacity was expanded massively.

    But expanded capacity can't be held in place indefinitely, and dedicated staff have to go back to business as usual in between. And the scariest part is that in some places, expanded capacity is superseded. In other places, it isn't utilised - leaving funders reluctant to approve more when the need does arise.
    Yep even with the massive increases in funds for directly COVID related measures the rest of the health system in Victoria has been reduced or put on hold.

    The catch up game is very hard as people whose illnesses were missed now generally have progressed disease states requiring more intervention.

    Health is a very complex game, and a huge amount has been demanded of it by politicians and the public.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #3991
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    I stated that masks do not protect the wearer
    Hmm? does wearing a mask protects the mask wearer? absolutely. It protects the person wearing a mask from being infected and also protects the people around them from being exposed to the virus.Obviously no mask is 100 % effective, but mask use decreases the effective transmission rate.
    Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    More,
    This CDC study compared wearing no mask, a poorly fitted surgical mask, cloth-only mask and double-masking in a simulation of respiratory droplets between two people -a source and a receiver. Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure- 2021. - CDC

    More,
    Follow the link, Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation
    If 95% of people wore masks in public, forecasters at the IHME believe more than 116,000 lives could be saved by 1 June, compared with the institute’s "worst-case" scenario, in which 702,000 people could die from Covid.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #3992

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Hmm? does wearing a mask protects the mask wearer? absolutely. It protects the person wearing a mask from being infected and also protects the people around them from being exposed to the virus.Obviously no mask is 100 % effective, but mask use decreases the effective transmission rate.
    Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    More,
    This CDC study compared wearing no mask, a poorly fitted surgical mask, cloth-only mask and double-masking in a simulation of respiratory droplets between two people -a source and a receiver. Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure- 2021. - CDC

    More,
    Follow the link, Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation
    If 95% of people wore masks in public, forecasters at the IHME believe more than 116,000 lives could be saved by 1 June, compared with the institute’s "worst-case" scenario, in which 702,000 people could die from Covid.
    Once again, the context of my comment is being ignored. Mask wearing slowing the rate of transmission in certain communal settings (which, so far as I know, has not been proven by an RCT)* is irrelevant to the question of whether a single individual immunocompromised child would benefit personally from wearing a mask in a school environment. If one assumes such an environment correlates with the "virus-rich regime" mentioned in the cited diagram, the answer would be no. Though even if we assume that the environment was "virus-limited", masks only limit transmission.

    *The Science.org source confirms that this is correct:

    Given the large number of particles emitted upon respiration and especially upon sneezing or coughing (4), the number of respiratory particles that may penetrate masks is substantial, which is one of the main reasons for doubts about their efficacy in preventing infections. Moreover, randomized clinical trials have shown inconsistent or inconclusive results, with some studies reporting only a marginal benefit or no effect of mask use (5, 6). Thus, surgical and similar masks are often considered to be ineffective.
    Last edited by Cope; November 26, 2021 at 10:51 AM.



  13. #3993

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.



    Indecisive action prolonging the pandemic is bound to create more variants and we're seeing the results of that in the latest iteration. It's gonna be a rough winter.
    The Armenian Issue

  14. #3994
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    ...

    Indecisive action prolonging the pandemic is bound to create more variants and we're seeing the results of that in the latest iteration. It's gonna be a rough winter.
    Yes the reason health authorities were ****ting themselves when this thing first broke was coronaviruses have been fairly lethal. We got lucky with how relatively mild this one was (worse than a flu though, despite what some jabbering nitwits claim) but the potential for it to mutate into something much worse (while reduced because apparently this thing doesn't mutate like the flu does) was what had the medical people pushing for the extreme measures we experienced.

    Despite plenty of good work, we've managed to create massive reservoirs of infected people for mutations to occur, and politicians have rushed to reopen for muh votes and muh freedom. Maybe we're half-arsing ourselves into a real plague?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  15. #3995
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    RTC...Schools
    RTC's
    An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 | PNAS
    Cochrane (7) and the World Health Organization (8) both point out that, for population health measures, we should not generally expect to be able to find controlled trials, due to logistical and ethical reasons, and should therefore instead seek a wider evidence base. This issue has been identified for studying community use of masks for COVID-19 in particular (9).

    Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

    ...The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce ReRe to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).
    Schools
    There are multiple lines of evidence from a variety of disciplines, showing that masks can help protect children and teachers from getting the disease in schools.
    Researchers have collected data from more than a million K–12 students and staff members in North Carolina, which mandated masking in schools from August 2020 until July 2021. The scientists reported little in-school transmission over the fall, winter or summer months.Follow the link,ABC Science Collaborative

    MASKING GUIDANCE

    Available data suggest that properly wearing a face mask (appropriate fit with coverage of chin, nose, and mouth) is effective in limiting in-school transmission of SARS-CoV-2, even with increased population counts in school buildings, poor ventilation, high community transmission, and limited distancing.9,10,11

    With limited in-school transmission of SARS-CoV-2, K–12 schools do not contribute to community transmission. However, instances of SARS-CoV-2 transmission within school buildings have definitively occurred under circumstances of masking non-adherence or during activities when it is difficult to maintain masking adherence, including during mealtimes, sports, and in students with special educational needs and their staff caretakers.9,12–14

    Increased transmission during masking non-adherence was observed during periods of moderate or high community transmission and limited or no vaccine availability. Data in the United States are not yet available to define the risks of unmasked students and staff in K–12 schools in the setting of limited community transmission, vaccination of many adults, and a largely unvaccinated student population.

    Data from the United Kingdom early in the pandemic suggested that with extremely low community transmission (less than 10 cases/100,000 people/week), secondary transmission within schools where masking was not required or recommended was minimal.15

    The opposite was seen in Tel Aviv where uncontrolled spread among unmasked students was observed in schools although community spread was believed to be controlled.16–18

    This may be explained by inaccurate measures of community incidence; community incidence as documented by public health agencies depends on testing uptake and may lag behind actual incidence. Therefore, strategies to monitor and quickly mitigate spread within schools or local communities in which individuals are unmasked are necessary to prevent COVID-19 morbidity and mortality, especially in unvaccinated students and adults.

    Recent data from several states suggest that among adults who are unvaccinated, rates of hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 in May 2021 were similar to rates in late January 2021, when COVID-19 disease was at its peak.19 Conversely, vaccination has resulted in substantial decreases in hospitalization and death. Thus, high vaccination rates (such as greater than 70 percent) among students and staff within the school or local community will likely be an important metric to ensure sustained, limited community transmission and protection against the acquisition and sequelae of COVID-19. The combination of high vaccination rates and low community transmission may safely permit transitioning from mandatory masking of students and staff in K–12 schools. Importantly, high vaccination rates in elementary schools cannot currently be achieved because there are no approved vaccines for children younger than age 12. *
    * Not anymore.FDA authorizes Covid vaccine for kids ages 5 to 11.
    The American Academy of has consistently supported universal masking for all vaccinated and unvaccinated children and adults in schools.
    ----

    Israel closes its borders over Omicron as world races to ...
    Israel has banned the entry of all foreigners into the country, making it the first country to shut its borders completely
    Israel also said it would use counter-terrorism phone-tracking technology in order to contain the spread of the Omicron variant
    I can’t say I disagree.
    Last edited by Ludicus; November 28, 2021 at 09:48 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  16. #3996

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Omicron? Doesn't that skip a letter?

  17. #3997
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I Xi what you did there.

    (-70 social credit)

  18. #3998
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I do. It's a massive breach of privacy. However, parliament is yet to approve and there are some dissending voices within the coalition so it might not happen.

    I wouldn't say Israel fully closed the borders. Foreigners can still enter by applying for a special entry permit, and citizens can still fly out and in as they please. Israel had only just re-opened to tourism a couple weeks ago, so this is just a return to that.

  19. #3999
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    [QUOTE=Mithradates;16066321]I Xi what you did there.



    Not really... sincerely, I completely agree.Israel did the right thing. And you, do you agree?
    From the news,
    European Union states have agreed to introduce temporary restrictions on all travel into the EU from southern Africa over the new coronavirus variant, the bloc said Friday. The countries concerned are Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, EU Commission spokesman Eric Mamer said.
    Meanwhile, US President Joe Biden will restrict travel from South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique and Malawi starting Monday
    We can't restrict travel from Angola, our President is there, right now

    Let's be fair,the WHO also skipped the "nu" letter" : "Nu’ is too easily confounded with ‘new,’ And ‘Xi’ was not used because it is a common last name.

    ---------
    Dentists work in close proximity to the patient's oral cavity: do masks matter? There is no doubt about it.
    Risk for dental healthcare professionals during the COVID-19 global pandemic: An evidence-based assessment

    With the assumption that DHPs work fulltime and wear a N95 mask, the annualized probability for a DHP to acquire COVID-19 infection in a dental office, become symptomatic, and die from the infection is estimated at 1:13,000 (0.008 %) in a medium sized city in the US at the peak of the pandemic.
    ...To put this number in perspective, the annual risk for an individual to be involved in a motor vehicle accident and dying from the injury in the US is higher at approximately 1:8,000 [53]
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  20. #4000
    Stario's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post

    You have no natural rights to anything. You have no natural freedoms. They are all constructs and up for negotiation. Including your 'right' to bodily autonomy
    This is where we disagree.


    I wish you well with your class action. Keep us informed how it goes.
    So far so good my team of solicitors building up a paper trail. We asked the employer for a 'Risk Ax' and they couldn't provide one etc (basically they cant provide evidence that my work environment is safe)... sending letters back and forth creating a paper trail etc. But I am still getting paid so...
    I don't expect to go back in fact this was already discussed w/ my team and we will be going the way of compensation if it gets to that. They haven't dismissed me so basically waiting to get terminated before we seek compensation but ye I will let you know how I faired... expecting it to be a painful process but I got enough savings to hold out for maybe a year once they stop paying me/terminate me.

    Of course local election this weekend and federal early next year so if the right party gets in it will be all over but we will see...

    Ultimately if all fails/worse scenario it will be their loss as I am emergency trained and we are desperately short staffed; heard from our ER closed the whole pediatrics section yesterday due to no staff and other sections of ER already closed. So ultimately it's their loss. I have contacts to pursue other avenues of employment if needed too...as they say one door closes other doors open...
    Last edited by Stario; November 28, 2021 at 06:31 PM.

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