Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[antaeus]

OR RATHER, due to discrimination, marginalization and abandonment of Maori communities by New Zealand authorities, as opposed to a ficticious special vulnerability towards a broad range of "foreign" diseases, whatever that entails.

By 1918 Maori had been interacting, intermarrying, interbreeding with settled Europeans for more than 120 years. There had been a lot of dying thanks to vulnerability to introduced diseases in line with other new world populations in the preceding 150 years. But this wasn't due to a genetic propensity, it was due to a lack of exposure. By 1918 this period of high disease susceptibility had long past - by 70-100 years.

But speculative genetic propensities aside, Maori had all the requirements for a good influenza outbreak: They tended to be poorer, less exposed to adequate health care, less educated, and they lived in closer knit communal groups that included extended families and relations. I'm not sure it is necessary to look beyond this for reasons why a community might suffer more. But *shrug*

[saxdude]

By 1918 Maori had been interacting, intermarrying, interbreeding with settled Europeans for more than 120 years. There had been a lot of dying thanks to vulnerability to introduced diseases in line with other new world populations in the preceding 150 years. But this wasn't due to a genetic propensity, it was due to a lack of exposure. By 1918 this period of high disease susceptibility had long past - by 70-100 years.

But speculative genetic propensities aside, Maori had all the requirements for a good influenza outbreak: They tended to be poorer, less exposed to adequate health care, less educated, and they lived in closer knit communal groups that included extended families and relations. I'm not sure it is necessary to look beyond this for reasons why a community might suffer more. But *shrug*

Are you arguing with me? Because you're making my point for me. Colonialism played a much larger part in disease susceptibility than any posited genetic vulnerability, the effects of a recent exposure only really manifest themselves in the initial bout and a given communities response (or lack thereof) to it.

[antaeus]

Are you arguing with me? Because you're making my point for me. Colonialism played a much larger part in disease susceptibility than any posited genetic vulnerability, the effects of a recent exposure only really manifest themselves in the initial bout and a given communities response (or lack thereof) to it.

I'm expanding on your point.

[Aexodus]

OR RATHER, due to discrimination, marginalization and abandonment of Maori communities by New Zealand authorities, as opposed to a ficticious special vulnerability towards a broad range of "foreign" diseases, whatever that entails.

If disease resistance can be hereditary, then I don't see how native New Zealanders are any different to any other nation on the planet. If a disease is foreign, it is therefore unfamiliar.

By 1918 Maori had been interacting, intermarrying, interbreeding with settled Europeans for more than 120 years. There had been a lot of dying thanks to vulnerability to introduced diseases in line with other new world populations in the preceding 150 years. But this wasn't due to a genetic propensity, it was due to a lack of exposure. By 1918 this period of high disease susceptibility had long past - by 70-100 years.

But speculative genetic propensities aside, Maori had all the requirements for a good influenza outbreak: They tended to be poorer, less exposed to adequate health care, less educated, and they lived in closer knit communal groups that included extended families and relations. I'm not sure it is necessary to look beyond this for reasons why a community might suffer more. But *shrug*

This^ is a better explanation than I gave +rep

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/in...Hari%20Wahanui.

Historian Geoffrey Rice suggests that higher death rates among Māori (more than eight times those for Pākehā) may have resulted from lower immunity due to their isolation from minor respiratory ailments in the past, as Māori were a largely rural population. Lower standards of housing, clothing and nourishment also put Māori at greater risk.

Much attention has been focused on the unequal death tolls among people of different races in the UK. If it's something people want to fix, then addressing the causes is key. It's important to note that where people live plays a part. I'm not going to state the obvious that relocating people for their race is a bad idea. So that's a factor we're just going to have to live with. Especially the urban-rural difference in the UK and around the world.

[saxdude]

If disease resistance can be hereditary, then I don't see how native New Zealanders are any different to any other nation on the planet. If a disease is foreign, it is therefore unfamiliar.

My issue is that the Maori disparity in casualties with relation to the Pakeha is more readily explained by the marginalization of their communities by the colonial and NZ goverment, than a presumed (but unsubstantiated) inmunodeficiency to respiratory disease. This isn't so much a singling out native New Zealanders, but instead a dismissal of a "Virgin Soil epidemics" explanation for the decline in population and increased health deficiencies of indigenous peoples after contact.

Even if the lower inmunological response was a stated fact, the impact of institutional negligence/violence and inadequate community response would still have a higher degree of influence over the disparity.

Much attention has been focused on the unequal death tolls among people of different races in the UK. If it's something people want to fix, then addressing the causes is key. It's important to note that where people live plays a part. I'm not going to state the obvious that relocating people for their race is a bad idea. So that's a factor we're just going to have to live with. Especially the urban-rural difference in the UK and around the world.

Can't say I'm familiar with the COVID casualty statistics of the UK, but if they're anything like the US then I'm gonna go on a limb and say it has less to do with where a current population is living and much more to do with the economic and social reality it's living with.
I think it's fair to say the causes Antaeus aptly enlisted above apply not only the Maori.

[Aexodus]

Can't say I'm familiar with the COVID casualty statistics of the UK, but if they're anything like the US then I'm gonna go on a limb and say it has less to do with where a current population is living and much more to do with the economic and social reality it's living with.

Where you live correlates with the economic situation you're in, in the UK. North vs south in particular, London vs everywhere else and so on. What is a social reality.

I think it's fair to say the causes Antaeus aptly enlisted above apply not only the Maori.

Indeed

[Infidel144]

England's Chief Medical Officer "Chris Whitty warns Covid lockdown measures may be needed next winter as virus ‘won’t disappear by spring’
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/c...r-b703672.html
From 15 days to flatten the curve to lockdowns yesterday, lockdowns today, lockdowns forever...

From Canadian lawyer David Freiheit (Viva Frei):
"This is not a joke. I was just at the pharmacy. A dishevelled old man asked the cashier to buy socks. She said they were not allowed to sell them. He lifted up his pants to show her that he did not have socks on. She said no. Yet these items cleared the register":
https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/stat...76099241414660

[Aexodus]

Chris Whitty can bite my ass. The government isn’t supposed to have this much power.

[Infidel144]

Chris Whitty can bite my ass. The government isn’t supposed to have this much power.

Heh. I found out today that in California you are not supposed to go more than 120 miles from your residence.
(what, 121 means the chinese cave bat lab lung aids virus will get you?)
I have a full tank of gas and am going to go for a long drive later...

[sumskilz]

Heh. I found out today that in California you are not supposed to go more than 120 miles from your residence.

That's rather permissive, comparatively:

Two women have described how they were surrounded by police, read their rights and fined £200 each after driving five miles to take a walk.

The women were also told the hot drinks they had brought along were not allowed as they were "classed as a picnic".

Guidance for the current lockdown says people can travel for exercise as long as it is in their "local area".

The police force involved, Derbyshire Police, said driving for exercise was "not in the spirit" of lockdown.

[Aexodus]

Lock them up and throw away the key!

[Infidel144]

That's rather permissive, comparatively:

What is the saying? 'In America 200 years is a long time, in Britain 200 miles is a long way'
Or something like that.

[Cyclops]

The Poms have utterly failed to control the virus in their own country, and given the rest of us a new mutant strain.

Poor cops trying to police a half arsed lockdown imposed in a half hearted way by a half-incompetent, half dishonest PM? I mean I feel for the ladies hurt feelings and so on, its a tragedy etc etc, but if you're cross enough to post about it what will you do when 80,000 deaths comes up in the next day or so?

[antaeus]

I can certainly understand frustration with seemingly arbitrary rules that are applied in a haphazard way. As we've said many times in this thread, the hallmark of the worst affected countries has been ineffective or even contradictory responses that have been poorly communicated.

[Ludicus]

England's Chief Medical Officer "Chris Whitty warns Covid lockdown measures may be needed next winter as virus ‘won’t disappear by spring’
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/c...r-b703672.html
From 15 days to flatten the curve to lockdowns yesterday, lockdowns today, lockdowns forever...

Sadly, there are no miracles. One thing is certain, vaccines make a decisive difference in reaching herd immunity. Israel, for example, as 1 Jan 2021 leads vaccine rate with +- 12/ per 100 people.If everything goes as expected, it will take some brief months to reach herd immunity. In the US, more than one year- or two, who knows.Here, by my estimate,may be in the late autumn...I will get my vaccine by the end of this month.
-----
On a side note:don’t complain, lovers of the US private health care market,

MorseLife Health System: Home

In an atmosphere of luxury,an outstanding service: an outstanding service: vaccines for rich tourists. I'm not kidding...

COVID vaccine tourism

...They received valet parking, red carpet treatment and gift bags after their inoculation.
the former chairman and CEO of Time Warner told a national television audience on Friday that it was a breeze.
Richard Parsons, who is also a former chairman of Citigroup, said he left his home in New York to travel to Florida specifically because the Sunshine State made it so easy.

[Cyclops]

...I will get my vaccine by the end of this month...

Good luck mate hope if works well.

In Australia the massive distances and low population/sqkm mean the low temperature requirements of the Pfizer are a real headache. Mrs Cyclops is doing a heap of planning around the vaccination apparatus in the urban areas, the regions will be exponentially harder. Very grateful this isn't a savage fire season like last year.

We've had some spotfire outbreaks, all locked up by the look of things now, but the political pressure has meant some testing stations have been kept open (as they were after we got down to zero cases in November) so they can be tranistioned into vaccine sites if we can hold onto them for another month or two...waste of money of course but better to keep them open too long than too short.

[Ludicus]

Good luck mate hope if works well.

Thanks, Cyclops.I work in a speciality at higher risk of contracting Covid, that’s the reason.My wife, teaching at the Faculty of Medicine, is not eligible for vaccination right away. She will have to wait a little longer. Meanwhile, we are between Scylla and Charybdis. Returning to total confinement is bad for economy, but there is no other option, the ICU capacity right now is at critical level. In fact, the situation is more critical than what we experienced in the first wave of the pandemic. I get a sense that people don’t care.They only care when a relative or a friend is in intensive care.

[Muizer]

Under the heading "The world we live in, facepalm", a few days back the n1 and n2 candidates from Dutch populist party Forum voor Democratie were guests in the talk show Op1.

Number two, MP van Haga, was asked by one of the guests (an economist) what he would do right now to manage the pandemic. His answer was "The government should have expanded hospital capicity by now, they had 10 months to do it". Not deterred the guest asked him again "but what would you do right now" only to get the same answer. This repeated itself a few times more. It seems van Haga knows of the existence of a time machine?

Number one, Thierry Baudet, also shone. When another guest, microbiologist Rosanne Herzberger, had explained how the British variant could rapidly become the dominant strain and how an increased infection rate would result directly and proportionately in hospitalizatoins, Baudet pointed out she had made a calculation error. So where, according to Baudet, was the calculation error? He made two remarks that seem relevant. Firstly according to him only a small percentage of people contracting covid get so sick they need to be hospitalized. Secondly, there was a difference between being in hospital with covid vs because of Covid. One has to conclude that Baudet believes the hospitals are full of people who should not be there.

It has to be said, they make great representatives ..... for those who cannot accept reality.

[Aexodus]

One has to conclude that Baudet believes the hospitals are full of people who should not be there.

He appears to be saying that not every hospital patient with covid is a seriously ill 'covid patient'. Which is true. The covid patient statistics are unreliable.

[Muizer]

He appears to be saying that not every hospital patient with covid is a seriously ill 'covid patient'. Which is true. The covid patient statistics are unreliable.

The hospitalizations of people who tested positive is highly correlated with the total number of people who tested positive. In the absence of any credible alternative cause, why assume that correlation won't hold? So what if there are question marks surrounding tests and diagnoses? It's not as if not being able to demonstrate full causality somehow is an excuse to say "oh well as long as there's no certainty we should carry on as if nothing's happening". When the ambulances have to queue for 9 hours, what consolation does it offer when you say "we saw it coming, but didn't do anything because there was still a tiny chance we were wrong".