Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[Phier]

I looked up 'hoax' and came up in general with this: "a humorous or malicious deception." If something else was meant then it's perhaps time POTUS45 updated his vocabulary instead of using his stock in trade comment for anything he considers against his opinion.

I rather not comment on this attempt to put the corona virus issue on the same level as collusion and global warming.

The political side is exactly that though. It reminds of of Puerto Rico, where they are recently, like this week, found more supplies hidden away that weren't given out, but Trump is the bad guy.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...er-impeachment

The video is there.

While speaking to supporters at a Friday rally in North Charleston, South Carolina, the president blasted Democrats for "politicizing" the outbreak, calling their criticism of his response "their new hoax."
“Now, the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus," the president said before renewing his attack on the errors that befell the Iowa Democratic Party during the state's caucuses, which led to delayed results. “They can't even count the votes in Iowa. No, they can’t. They can’t count their votes."
“One of my people came up to me and said, 'Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.' That didn't work out too well. They couldn't do it. They tried the impeachment hoax," he continued. "And this is their new hoax.”

In context there is nothing wrong with it, it just makes a bad out of context sound bite and he's 100% right, the democrats are disgustingly trying to spin this politically.

[Gigantus]

What's Puerto Rico got to do with this? Or the Iowa count FUBAR?

The president didn't call it hoax himself apparently - he just quoted 'one of his people' and together with whataboutism (love the word I learned in this thread) that makes it acceptable? Since when do 'his people' say anything that he doesn't totally agree with?

Now where exactly is the malicious misconception that the 'corona virus hoax' label refers to?

[Phier]

What's Puerto Rico got to do with this? Or the Iowa count FUBAR?

The president didn't call it hoax himself apparently - he just quoted 'one of his people' and together with whataboutism (love the word I learned in this thread) that makes it acceptable? Since when do 'his people' say anything that he doesn't totally agree with?

Now where exactly is the malicious misconception that the 'corona virus hoax' label refers to?

The "hoax"..

NOUN

• a humorous or malicious deception.
  
  "they recognized the plan as a hoax" · [more]
  
  
  synonyms:
  practical joke · joke · jest · prank · trick · jape · ruse · deception · fraud · [more]
  VERB

• deceive with a hoax.

Would be the plan to frame everything bad about the virus as somehow a failing of Trump.

This is obvious...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/o...rus-trump.html

Let’s Call It Trumpvirus


If you’re feeling awful, you know who to blame.

And you can I'm sure google more if you like.

Or nonsense like this...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/27/coro...ncy-money.html

Elizabeth Warren wants to defund Trump’s border wall and use the money to fight coronavirus

I'm not going to try to make my case further, I think I have done enough.

[swabian]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trum...-new-hoax.html

That's right folks, the President of the United States claims the corona virus (which has killed ~3000 people so far), is a Democratic hoax to help them win the election.

Great.

Aww, that's such a shame. He could have used the fear to present himself as the great commander during dire crisis, as the Chinese do. But, well... he's err... idk, what is he actually, except orange?

[Akar]

The "hoax"..



Would be the plan to frame everything bad about the virus as somehow a failing of Trump.

This is obvious...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/o...rus-trump.html



And you can I'm sure google more if you like.

Or nonsense like this...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/27/coro...ncy-money.html



I'm not going to try to make my case further, I think I have done enough.

Trump has illegally diverted funds already earmarked for projects towards funding his border wall. Not to mention that he's actually trying to decrease the funding of the CDC right now. A virus might not be an inherently political topic but when it's allowed to become a threat to the nation due to the malicious and negligent actions of the President it becomes a political issue. American workers were interacting with coronavirus patients without proper protective gear. Even the Chinese are using protective gear in their prisons/hospitals. Your first link is from an opinion columnist and is behind a paywall so I can't comment on it. The second one is a perfect example of why Trump has caused this to become political.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisette.../#7527317b57f3

https://apnews.com/4a01cc8bc7baee227f844d0730bd1700

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...leblower-says/

Aww, that's such a shame. He could have used the fear to present himself as the great commander during dire crisis, as the Chinese do. But, well... he's err... idk, what is he actually, except orange?

When presented with an opportunity to either make himself look good, or make someone else look bad I firmly believe Trump will always choose the latter.

[Gigantus]

The "hoax"..



Would be the plan to frame everything bad about the virus as somehow a failing of Trump.

This is obvious...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/o...rus-trump.html



And you can I'm sure google more if you like.

Or nonsense like this...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/27/coro...ncy-money.html



I'm not going to try to make my case further, I think I have done enough.

I am not sure how being upfront with intending to divert budget funds the same way Trump did is malicious and\or a deception, the president should be glowing with pride that he showcased the principle in the first place. The malicious deception part would have been if she had told everyone first that Mexico would pay for it.

Can't get to the first link either, and the listing of the synonyms is just poor form: 'practical joke'?

Couldn't agree more with Akar's assessment: "When presented with an opportunity to either make himself look good, or make someone else look bad I firmly believe Trump will always choose the latter. "

[Cyclops]

No point microanalysing Trumps mangled logorrhea, he's thrown the word hoax into the mix which muddies the waters when clear information is needed. He's babbling about politics at a time when clinical precision is needed, and he cannot maintain focus.

Likewise nitpicking his budget cuts is pointless, he did his best to slash the CDC and has slashed other programs directed at controlling pandemics. Now instead of that Rear Admiral Ziemer appointed up in the wake of Ebola we have a politician picked in a week as "virus czar" (and that after weeks of the administration saying there was no need for a single coordinating figure).

The Trump administration's response is ramshackle and unfocussed, and the man at the top spends more time blabbing than thinking. There's still a lot of residual strength in the system from state builders who established capacity to respond to threats so I daresay the US can contain some outbreaks but if it gets serious I doubt Trump could be anything more than a hindrance. When its just him calling the shots he stuffs up something shameful, as when they put him in a room with Putin at Reykjavik or on the phone to our Prime Minister.

[Prodromos]

Only cool kids will get this one

[sumskilz]

I guess it's good to be in a developed western country:

England only has 15 available beds for adults to treat the most severe respiratory failure and will struggle to cope if there are more than 28 patients who need them if the number of coronavirus cases rises, according to the government and NHS documents.

[Cyclops]

I guess it's good to be in a developed western country:

Clickbaiters gonna 'bait.

Of course its the Grauniad so the actual number could be anything.

[Genava]

Hancock also played down a report in the Guardian that England has only 15 available beds for adults to treat the most severe respiratory failure.

Referring to ventilators, he said the Guardian’s figures were out of date. “We have 50 now, and we can ramp that up to 500. And then if necessary 5,000 beds that are able to cope with the worst impact of this virus,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...le-plan-for-uk

Probably because these beds can be prepared quickly.

[Ludicus]

I guess it's good to be in a developed western country:

1) In fact, it's good to be in a civilized country.Americans are facing a coronavirus epidemic and they don't have any form of universal healthcare.
US health care costs could help coronavirus spread — Quartz

“One of the disadvantages the US has in trying to tackle Covid-19 is that many people avoid going to see a health care provider because they are worried about the cost,” said Gavin Yamey, professor of global health and public policy at Duke University. “You absolutely want people in this situation to be going to see a health provider.”

An more: In the United States daily intensive care unit (ICU) costs are three to five times the costs of regular ward care.Many will prefer to roll a dice and die at home.
---------

2) The UK has hundreds of negative pressure rooms. Mechanical ventilation is a life supporting modality often employed in the care of severely ill patients.
According to a previous link ( post 211, Genava)

It has been used to treat Covid-19 cases in China

That's right. In fact, in this study, extracorporeal membrane oxygenation was performed in 5 patients (0.5%) with severe disease. Clinical Characteristics of Coronavirus Disease 2019 in China
published two days ago.
Total number of patients: 1099.
Severe disease: 173 (mechanical ventilation: 67 ---- extracorporeal oxygenation :5)
-------
Another key point,

We found a lower case fatality rate (1.4%) than the rate that was recently reportedly,1,12 probably because of the difference in sample sizes and case inclusion criteria. Our findings were more similar to the national official statistics, which showed a rate of death of 3.2% among 51,857 cases of Covid-19 as of February 16, 2020.11,24 Since patients who were mildly ill and who did not seek medical attention were not included in our study, the case fatality rate in a real-world scenario might be even lower.

So, let's not dramatize.
-----
On a side note, sumskilz, even in Israel,with a very efficient universal healthcare,many seriously ill patients are mechanically ventilated in internal medicine wards due to a shortage of ICU beds.

[Diamat]

I am not sure how being upfront with intending to divert budget funds the same way Trump did is malicious and\or a deception, the president should be glowing with pride that he showcased the principle in the first place. The malicious deception part would have been if she had told everyone first that Mexico would pay for it.

Likewise nitpicking his budget cuts is pointless, he did his best to slash the CDC and has slashed other programs directed at controlling pandemics. Now instead of that Rear Admiral Ziemer appointed up in the wake of Ebola we have a politician picked in a week as "virus czar" (and that after weeks of the administration saying there was no need for a single coordinating figure).

I think we should stick to the facts. Unfortunately, some people have started to spread the story of Trump cutting the budget of the CDC, which never actually happened. While Trump may be faulted for other things, this definitely isn't one of them.

Here is an AP source:

MIKE BLOOMBERG: “There’s nobody here to figure out what the hell we should be doing. And he’s defunded — he’s defunded Centers for Disease Control, CDC, so we don’t have the organization we need. This is a very serious thing.” — Democratic presidential debate Tuesday.
JOE BIDEN, comparing the Obama-Biden administration with now: “We increased the budget of the CDC. We increased the NIH budget. ... He’s wiped all that out. ... He cut the funding for the entire effort.”

THE FACTS: They’re both wrong to say the agencies have seen their money cut. Bloomberg is repeating the false allegation in a new ad that states the U.S. is unprepared for the virus because of “reckless cuts” to the CDC. Trump’s budgets have proposed cuts to public health, only to be overruled by Congress, where there’s strong bipartisan support for agencies such as the CDC and NIH. Instead, financing has increased.

[conon394]

I think we should stick to the facts. Unfortunately, some people have started to spread the story of Trump cutting the budget of the CDC, which never actually happened. While Trump may be faulted for other things, this definitely isn't one of them.

The facts are he did allow coordinating infrastructure to lapse. He did propose cutting the CDC pretty much in every budget he proposed and that was rejected by congress. But notably you need to careful even when congress raised the overall CDC and NIH budget - funding for emerging infectious pathogens research was still cut. Overall funding was increased for things like Opioid response.

[Diamat]

We shouldn't forget that the president does not have budgetary powers. Ultimately, budget and appropriation powers rest with Congress. Appropriations is specifically the domain of the House, which is presently controlled by Democrats.

[Gigantus]

I think we should stick to the facts.

The point I was trying to make in the section you quoted is in response the 'let's downplay the hoax mentioning' whataboutism effort by Phier where he posts "Elizabeth Warren wants to defund Trump’s border wall and use the money to fight coronavirus"

I am (now) aware of the budget vs actual expense issue\discrepancy and already have acknowldeged it .

[Gigantus]

Shall we agree on: "The intent to cut the budget is a fact by it's very proposal. The actual allocations surpassing the proposed, cut budget is also a fact"? Everyone is obviously free to add irrelevant adjectives.

[Akar]

We shouldn't forget that the president does not have budgetary powers. Ultimately, budget and appropriation powers rest with Congress. Appropriations is specifically the domain of the House, which is presently controlled by Democrats.

The House cannot pass anything without the consent of the Senate, which has been ignoring every bill placed on its desk.

[sumskilz]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...le-plan-for-uk

Probably because these beds can be prepared quickly.

I have noticed that the Guardian tends to be full of crap on anything relevant to their particular political slant. The other article was written by their deputy political editor. What's the angle?

On a side note, sumskilz, even in Israel,with a very efficient universal healthcare,many seriously ill patients are mechanically ventilated in internal medicine wards due to a shortage of ICU beds.

With one exception, I've been fairly pleased with Israel's response. The country is already a fortress with an accompanying fortress mentality, so it's easier for them to act. They've banned flights from infected areas, refused to admit foreign nationals who have been to any infected country within the last fourteen days, and require any returning Israeli citizens or residents to self-quarantine for fourteen days, violation of which can result in up to seven years in prison.

One guy slipped through with the virus before Italy was on the list. Everyone he had even casual contact with was quarantined and everywhere he has been was disinfected:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's an amusing glimpse into Israeli culture for you.

The only issue I have is that they're not providing quarantined transportation from the airport to people's homes.

Nevertheless, Russian woman fears nothing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How do I know she's Russian? Blonde hair in Israel, doesn't have eyebrows like a Disney villain, fears nothing.

[Akar]

With one exception, I've been fairly pleased with Israel's response. The country is already a fortress with an accompanying fortress mentality, so it's easier for them to act. They've banned flights from infected areas, refused to admit foreign nationals who have been to any infected country within the last fourteen days, and require any returning Israeli citizens or residents to self-quarantine for fourteen days, violation of which can result in up to seven years in prison.

Isn't this pretty much exactly how Israel dealt with the zombie virus outbreak in World War Z? How long do we think before they start erecting a 100ft wall around the entire country?