Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[Aexodus]

It's perfectly possible for neighbourhood cats to spread it around. If the cats are allowed out that is. The virus can survive on their fur for a considerable amount of time, as it can survive on any other surface presumably.

In other news, China has initiated a diplomatic spat by protesting against Australia's call for an international inquiry into the origins of the 2019 coronavirus.

https://www.ft.com/content/fcf081a5-...c-bbe23ae76562

Australia will continue campaigning for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus outbreak despite a furious reaction from Beijing, which has accused Canberra of teaming up with Washington to mount “a political campaign” against China.

Scott Morrison, Australia’s prime minister, said on Wednesday that his government wanted an independent inquiry into the Covid-19 outbreak, which he said was in the interests of the wider international community.

The diplomatic skirmish between Beijing and Canberra comes as tensions grow between China and western nations, which are concerned Beijing is mounting a “global disinformation campaign” to sow division and make strategic gains.

Analysts said China’s aggressive reaction also served as a reminder of Beijing’s sensitivity over its role in the outbreak — and its willingness to bully its trading partners.

Last week, China complained to the EU three times and warned that bilateral relations would deteriorate if a report citing Beijing’s use of “overt and covert tactics” to avoid blame for the pandemic was published.

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/...b-0f0a6df37c7a

In recent months the paper has been intensely critical of Australia – labelling the nation troublemakers because of the federal government's calls for an independent inquiry into the origins and spread of the coronavirus that has caused the unprecedented global pandemic.

But a leading academic on Chinese Australia relations has come out swinging at Australia's 'hostility' and called the country 'divisive' in an interview with 60 Minutes reporter Tara Brown.
Professor Chen Hong, an academic in Shanghai and prolific contributor to the Global Times newspaper, told Brown the chewing gum comment was a "figure of speech".

"I think this remark is metaphoric which I think describes Australia's repeated display of hostility towards China and in spite of all the efforts on the Chinese side trying to call the Australian side back to its senses," he told 60 Minutes in the interview.

"Australia is being and acting as a kind of divisive role, trying to point fingers, even stab at the back of China. This is actually not fair."

While the European Union has been unduly weak towards China by not challenging them on government propaganda, after China complained and warned the EU against publishing a report . Australia and America appear to be acting appropriately. Downing Street in the UK to their credit, still maintain that error or accident by the Chinese government is a line of inquiry.

Countries must have the backbone to find out why this happened. Scott Morrison's request is entirely reasonable, and China shouldn't be allowed to exert economic and strategic power to coerce us.

(From the FT)

This week, Beijing warned that Chinese consumers might boycott Australian products.

Mr Morrison, however, was undeterred. “This is a virus that has taken more than 200,000 lives across the world. It has shut down the global economy,” he said.

“Now it would seem entirely reasonable and sensible that the world would want to have an independent assessment of how all this occurred, so we can learn the lessons and prevent it from happening again.”

[PointOfViewGun]

This is getting more and more obvious that indecisiveness of government to appease their public prolonged the pandemic by a great magnitude. The funny part is that the virus we discovered was not exactly an unknown. We knew from the get go that it belonged to a deadly family that we were unable to develop a vaccine against. The moment people realized that this was a corona virus the total lock down option should have been used.

Once any country that registered more than a hundred new cases per one day or their first death should have entered a total lock down for the limited period of one month. By the time non-Chinese countries were registered cases of COVID19 we already knew enough to warrant this kind of lock down regardless of what China or WHO hid or mislead.

On day 1, practically close everything including all non-essential government services. Hospitals stay open, but distinguish between pandemic hospitals and those that would service people who are not known to carry the virus. Pharmacies and markets stay open. All other non-essential businesses are to be closed down. Businesses tied to food production can stay open but they need to operate at a much lower capacity, or utilizing a shift system, essentially greatly decreasing human interaction to a minimum. If necessary, assign police presence to all such companies to make sure rules are not broken. Restaurants could continue to serve customers through deliveries as well.

Stop all air, ground and water travel, not just between countries but between provinces within countries as well. Each province should be seen as it's own little hub. Starting from day 15, any province that does not register any new case for a week could open up completely but only within itself. At this point, focus all efforts into external factors to keep the province clean. A month long total lock down in this fashion is completely manageable as well. Companies would know when to act. They could plan around this schedule. Markets, knowing that they can follow a particular timeline will react much less.

This way you don't just minimize the economic impact but you also leave much less time for the virus to mutate.

[Aexodus]

I'm not sure a total lockdown is necessarily the correct approach, South Korea for example, and Sweden aren't enacting national lockdowns.

[PointOfViewGun]

I'm not sure a total lockdown is necessarily the correct approach, South Korea for example, and Sweden aren't enacting national lockdowns.

Sweden specifically stands out of other Scandinavian countries because of not locking down as they had worse results. South Korea on the other hand is a different story that is not applicable for most countries in the world.

[Aexodus]

Exactly right POVG, different countries need different solutions.

[PointOfViewGun]

Exactly right POVG, different countries need different solutions.

And total lock down is the only common one.

[Love Mountain]

And total lock down is the only common one.

Probably because most countries aren't capable of enacting a solution like South Korea, Taiwan, or Sweden. By contrast, New Zealand can be said to be equally effective as South Korea and their result was achieved with a lockdown.

[Cope]

Probably because most countries aren't capable of enacting a solution like South Korea, Taiwan, or Sweden. By contrast, New Zealand can be said to be equally effective as South Korea and their result was achieved with a lockdown.

I'm fairly convinced that the ostensible success of Sweden and NZ is a largely a consequence of their relative lack of population density. Sweden has a population density of 64 people per square mile and NZ of just 46. By comparison, the UK has a population density of 727 people per square mile and NY (the worst affected US state) has a population density of 421 people per square mile.

[Love Mountain]

I'm fairly convinced that the ostensible success of Sweden and NZ is a largely a consequence of their relative lack of population density. Sweden has a population density of 64 people per square mile and NZ of just 46. By comparison, the UK has a population density of 727 people per square mile and NY (the worst affected US state) has a population density of 421 people per square mile.

All countries have areas with high population density and low population density. I am not saying that some countries aren't more challenging than others, but there are takeaways from every success. It is far less productive to look solely for reasons why something that has worked elsewhere, cannot work at home.

[Mayer]

A lockdown isolates everyone, but you don't need to isolate everyone, only those who have been exposed. Border security plus testing and tracking will ultimately be the best tools for management and local elimination long-term, but the numbers have to be brought down and the capacity to respond ramped up before they can be the exclusive tools.

That's why i said quarantines. The benefit of this age-old practice in contrast to lockdown is that it isolates a group of people instead of the whole society. Border security and tracking are a problem for countries like Germany with open-border beliefs and strong data protection laws, a isolationist surveillance state like China is again superior.

Or we could have a total lock down for a month everywhere and the virus will die out. If we did that in the beginning we'd be all good by now with much less economic impact.

I think the death of the virus is a unfounded hope, but I was actually in favor of harsh measures (blocking traffic, masks, etc.) on day 1. We could have already reopened the country and the economic losses as well as the loss of lives would be far less devastating.

[PointOfViewGun]

You guys keep repeating Sweden as a success but its reported as the worst country among Scandinavian ones and that is attributed to Sweden not enacting lock down measures. How is Sweden a success?

[Love Mountain]

You guys keep repeating Sweden as a success but its reported as the worst country among Scandinavian ones and that is attributed to Sweden not enacting lock down measures. How is Sweden a success?

Because objectively, it is not a failure.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because objectively, it is not a failure.

Define failure. Being the worst among Scandinavian countries is a failure enough for me.

[Love Mountain]

Define failure. Being the worst among Scandinavian countries is a failure enough for me.

IN comparison with its peers in EU28, it is in the middle. As far as I can tell, their healthcare system is not overwhelmed thought that may change in the future. For now, Sweden is coping with the crisis without destroying its economy. I wouldn't call Sweden a resounding success, but it's not really a country we should be looking at as an example of government failure or success.

[PointOfViewGun]

IN comparison with its peers in EU28, it is in the middle. As far as I can tell, their healthcare system is not overwhelmed thought that may change in the future. For now, Sweden is coping with the crisis without destroying its economy. I wouldn't call Sweden a resounding success, but it's not really a country we should be looking at as an example of government failure or success.

The fact that the death toll in Sweden is many times over compared other similar countries, yes, Sweden is huge failure.

[Phier]

Define failure. Being the worst among Scandinavian countries is a failure enough for me.

Left wing media = SWEDEN HAS TWICE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN INTENSIVE CARE DUE TO COVID-19!!!!!!11ONEONE

Left out = 20 more people per million, or what is known as .002% more of the population.

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

(who are almost all safe from it)

Meanwhile the world economy is fubared for years.

Well done people well done!

[Stario]

WOW! Only 20 more people per million hospitalised. With the Economy largely preserved. I'd say Sweden is a clear example of how blanket 'draconian lock-down' laws are not needed!!!
I also predict as they approach herd immunity they will start to rapidly drop...

With that said it is unfortunate that due to world economy 'pooping' for the next decade Sweden's economy will still suffer somewhat (but through no fault of their own).

Lucky Swede's for having good Leadership...

[PointOfViewGun]

Left wing media = SWEDEN HAS TWICE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN INTENSIVE CARE DUE TO COVID-19!!!!!!11ONEONE
Left out = 20 more people per million, or what is known as .002% more of the population.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
(who are almost all safe from it)
Meanwhile the world economy is fubared for years.
Well done people well done!

Finland, Denmark and Norway are each about half the population of Sweden. So far, Finland had 240 deaths. Norway had 209. Denmark had 503. While Sweden had 2,769 (basically about 1380 to compare with other countries). Also, Sweden managed to tame the numbers only after they decided to change their course and adapt stricter measures. Basically, you're OK with killing hundreds of people, possibly thousands, in these countries respectively just to avoid enacting thorough measures to keep businesses open while still risking businesses. What a disgusting position to defend.

WOW! Only 20 more people per million hospitalised. With the Economy largely preserved. I'd say Sweden is clearly a Winner!!!
I also predict as they approach herd immunity they will start to rapidly drop...
With that said it is unfortunate that due to world economy 'pooping' for the next decade Sweden's economy will still suffer somewhat (but through not fault of their own).

There is no herd immunity. Sweden stopped the rise of the numbers by enacting stricter measures. Why don't you show us the economic outlook of those countries? You make a claim that Sweden preserved its economy. You should have numbers to compare, right?

[Stario]

The country’s top epidemiologist says that Stockholm could attain herd immunity in weeks amid the country’s low-level lockdown measures. The measures are voluntary...

[PointOfViewGun]

The country’s top epidemiologist says that Stockholm could attain herd immunity in weeks amid the country’s low-level lockdown measures. The measures are voluntary...

Selective reading at best... He also indicates that reinfection is a risk and how long the immunity will last is an unknown.

Herd immunity is reached when approximately 60 percent of the population becomes immune to a virus. However, without a vaccine, scientists are analyzing if exposure and recovery from the COVID-19 will provide long-term immunity. In some countries such as Japan, China, and South Korea, reinfections of SARS-CoV-2 have been reported.

There are enough signals to show that we can think about herd immunity, about recurrence. Very few cases of reinfection have been reported globally so far. How long the herd immunity will last, we do not know, but there is definitely an immune response.

As of writing, the country has reached an infection toll of 16,755 and a death toll of 2,021, which is a fatality rate of 12 percent, higher than the rates in other countries. Dr. Tegnell also said that the mortality rate in the country is high because the virus was introduced to nursing homes, endangering the lives of older adults.

I see that you're unable to back up your claim that Swedish economy is largely preserved in contrast to other Scandinavian countries. You just made that up on the spot didn't you?