Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[B. W.]

Not sure where I said that. My posts always argued that it would be easier for big pharmaceutical companies to sell Ivermectin, which doesn't require any research, and make more money out of it. Your posts ignores pretty much all I've said on it while merely repeating the same claims that have been addressed. Show me where I changed my argument.

See below:

So, why you wanna maximize "Big Pharma" profits by having people use Ivermectin?

The hospital story has no relevance at this point. You argue that people should be able to use Ivermectin, a drug that's less tested against COVID19 than the vaccines, against COVID19, no? You're merely substituting one pharmaceutical product over an other. Are you not still advocating making big profit for "Big Pharma" here?

So, it was a completely pointless argument of yours to talk about COVID19 response being about maximizing Big Pharma profits. Especially, since use of already existing over the counter medicine to combat a disease would be much more profitable compared to creation of a vaccine.

You have repeatedly stated and based your argument on the fact that Big Pharma would have the same profit margin on an off-patent drug as a patented drug. This is false. When it comes to mass production of off-patent drugs US Big Pharma can't compete against countries like India and China which have much lower production costs.

[PointOfViewGun]

See below:

You have repeatedly stated and based your argument on the fact that Big Pharma would have the same profit margin on an off-patent drug as a patented drug. This is false. When it comes to mass production of off-patent drugs US Big Pharma can't compete against countries like India and China which have much lower production costs.

None of those quotes say that. Not by a long shot. Meanwhile, you continue to repeat claims that have already been addressed.

[Sir Adrian]

France bans all unvaccinated Americans

[Heathen Hammer]

Freezing bank accounts of anyone working for French government should be the valid response.

[EmperorBatman999]

At this point, being unvaccinated means you can’t do anything once you arrive there anyway.

[B. W.]

None of those quotes say that. Not by a long shot. Meanwhile, you continue to repeat claims that have already been addressed.

So, for clarity, you are now saying that Big Pharma would NOT make big profits on Ivermectin?

[PointOfViewGun]

So, for clarity, you are now saying that Big Pharma would NOT make big profits on Ivermectin?

*facepalm* My previous posts answer this quite sufficiently if you read them, and you seem to employ no coherence in your suggestions.

[EmperorBatman999]

You can't expect anyone to talk in absolutes, especially in topics like this. I'm not sure why you'd even expect it. I can only classify this as not understanding how vaccines in general work. Vaccines don't always. I personally had to repeat my Hepatitis vaccine before I could enter my university as my blood test didn't produce antibodies. Even the vaccine for chickenpox doesn't provide 100% protection. You are not guaranteed not to contract or spread it. Just like the COVID19 vaccine, with the chickenpox vaccine, your body gets to learn how to fight the virus, which means your body doesn't develop bad symptoms and is able to battle it out much faster, sometimes before you can spread it to others. That means when you get the vaccine you decrease your contribution to spread of the virus by a lot.

Also, when you get the vaccine and you feel a little sick you can't spread it as you don't have the virus. Vaccines don't contain viruses that you can spread.

Interesting, but vaccine advocates speak about the shot as though it does actually work in absolutes. "It is safe and effective." Or, "Getting vaccinated is the only way to end the pandemic."

I am not talking about the momentary "fake" dress rehearsal-type sick you get immediately after your second dose. I am speaking of a case, which is happening fairly often, that a vaccinated person becomes ill with the genuine virus some time after receiving the vaccination. During that period of time you are sick, you can still spread it to others, even if the window of illness is shorter and it feels less severe than if you were entirely unprotected. Considering that breakthrough cases are rapidly growing even in places with high vaccine rates like the State of Massachusetts, it appears that the vaccine is demonstrating major shortcomings and will not be the end-all solution. Nonetheless, the situation is blamed on the non-vaccinated, rather than having scientists and advocates take a critical look at their vaccine and its own shortcomings. We put our all eggs in the basket of vaccination, and now that basket is rapidly slipping from our hands.


Finally, can we explain why, only after the mass global introduction of vaccines, we have developed four different new variants over the past six months? For the previous year, only two new variants had developed, and then suddenly we have Gamma, Delta, Lambda, and now Mu.

[PointOfViewGun]

Interesting, but vaccine advocates speak about the shot as though it does actually work in absolutes. "It is safe and effective." Or, "Getting vaccinated is the only way to end the pandemic."

I am not talking about the momentary "fake" dress rehearsal-type sick you get immediately after your second dose. I am speaking of a case, which is happening fairly often, that a vaccinated person becomes ill with the genuine virus some time after receiving the vaccination. During that period of time you are sick, you can still spread it to others, even if the window of illness is shorter and it feels less severe than if you were entirely unprotected. Considering that breakthrough cases are rapidly growing even in places with high vaccine rates like the State of Massachusetts, it appears that the vaccine is demonstrating major shortcomings and will not be the end-all solution. Nonetheless, the situation is blamed on the non-vaccinated, rather than having scientists and advocates take a critical look at their vaccine and its own shortcomings. We put our all eggs in the basket of vaccination, and now that basket is rapidly slipping from our hands.

Finally, can we explain why, only after the mass global introduction of vaccines, we have developed four different new variants over the past six months? For the previous year, only two new variants had developed, and then suddenly we have Gamma, Delta, Lambda, and now Mu.

Everyone knows very well that when people say something is safe they're not talking in absolutes but in general terms. Very few and negligible people might be doing that. Most obviously don't. It's a rather pedantic to argue that. The premise you're trying to set up simply doesn't exist. Vaccines are simply the most effective weapon we have against the virus, however, mass usage is required for community wide effectiveness beyond the individuality.

Some of your statements outright don't make sense at all. I bolded one. Breakthrough cases, which are cases in vaccinated people, would obviously show up more in more vaccinated populations. How does that show vaccine's shortcomings? That they're not 100% effective? No one suggested that they would be. If you claim that they did what was the point of reporting their efficiency that was reported to be less than 100%?

We didn't suddenly have variants. We've been having them as the virus spread around the globe. The more population it spreads the more probability it acquires for evolving. There are already dozens of variants, hundreds if we count very minor ones. You merely hear about few of them that are most widespread or cause for concern. We didn't have a sudden explosion in variants after mass vaccination. What you're producing there is a highly limited understanding of the pandemic overall. First time Delta variant was documented was in 2020. The first documented case of Mu variant was from January 2021 Colombia. Vaccination efforts were hardly existing in Colombia back then.

The problem here seems to be based on complete misalignment from what vaccines are and what they do. You need to start acknowledging some of the fundamentally false aspects of your position.

[B. W.]

*facepalm* My previous posts answer this quite sufficiently if you read them, and you seem to employ no coherence in your suggestions.

All I'm asking for is a clarification. It shouldn't be that hard.

Everyone knows very well that when people say something is safe they're not talking in absolutes but in general terms. Very few and negligible people might be doing that. Most obviously don't. It's a rather pedantic to argue that. The premise you're trying to set up simply doesn't exist. Vaccines are simply the most effective weapon we have against the virus, however, mass usage is required for community wide effectiveness beyond the individuality.

Some of your statements outright don't make sense at all. I bolded one. Breakthrough cases, which are cases in vaccinated people, would obviously show up more in more vaccinated populations. How does that show vaccine's shortcomings? That they're not 100% effective? No one suggested that they would be. If you claim that they did what was the point of reporting their efficiency that was reported to be less than 100%?

We didn't suddenly have variants. We've been having them as the virus spread around the globe. The more population it spreads the more probability it acquires for evolving. There are already dozens of variants, hundreds if we count very minor ones. You merely hear about few of them that are most widespread or cause for concern. We didn't have a sudden explosion in variants after mass vaccination. What you're producing there is a highly limited understanding of the pandemic overall. First time Delta variant was documented was in 2020. The first documented case of Mu variant was from January 2021 Colombia. Vaccination efforts were hardly existing in Colombia back then.

The problem here seems to be based on complete misalignment from what vaccines are and what they do. You need to start acknowledging some of the fundamentally false aspects of your position.

Not everyone holds that opinion:

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...-of-sars-cov-2

[Heathen Hammer]

Members of Congress and Their Staff Are Exempt From Biden's Vaccine Mandate.
So... they don't want to take it themselves, but want the public to be forced to alpha-test it for them? No wonder there is such a strong opposition to vaccine mandates, and at this point it is entirely justified.

[PointOfViewGun]

All I'm asking for is a clarification. It shouldn't be that hard.

It wasn't supposed to be hard to get what I explicitly stated before. It's not technically possible to clarify it any further. So I have no need to repeat myself.

Not everyone holds that opinion:
https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...-of-sars-cov-2

Which opinion is that exactly?

[PointOfViewGun]

Members of Congress and Their Staff Are Exempt From Biden's Vaccine Mandate.
So... they don't want to take it themselves, but want the public to be forced to alpha-test it for them? No wonder there is such a strong opposition to vaccine mandates, and at this point it is entirely justified.

From your own source:

However, Biden's order on federal workers applies to employees of the executive branch.

It does apply to "themselves" despite the way you put it.

[Heathen Hammer]

You do realize US government has multiple branches, right? Congress and those employed in Court systems are exempt from the mandates, which is the point. So much for miraculous medical procedures that they want done to population, but not to themselves. Not to mention the whole mask fiasco, where they themselves violated their own orders at leisure.
Kinda reminds me from earlier episode in Canada, where when they drafted lockdown orders they made a rushed exemption, to ban people from visiting each other... but to allow servants, because god forbid politicians and their rich owners have to do their own laundry or something.

[PointOfViewGun]

You do realize US government has multiple branches, right? Congress and those employed in Court systems are exempt from the mandates, which is the point. So much for miraculous medical procedures that they want done to population, but not to themselves. Not to mention the whole mask fiasco, where they themselves violated their own orders at leisure.
Kinda reminds me from earlier episode in Canada, where when they drafted lockdown orders they made a rushed exemption, to ban people from visiting each other... but to allow servants, because god forbid politicians and their rich owners have to do their own laundry or something.

"They" in your post was the Biden administration, as the mandate was enacted through an executive order, and the mandate covered the executive branch. Did you not know who you were talking about?

[Heathen Hammer]

Doesn't change the fact that Congress and Courts are still exempt. If those vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, then how come they want other people to have them, but not themselves?

[PointOfViewGun]

Doesn't change the fact that Congress and Courts are still exempt. If those vaccines are perfectly safe and effective, then how come they want other people to have them, but not themselves?

Given that the Congress or the Courts didn't create the mandate they are not "themselves" in this construct that you created. The people that created the mandate did make it so that themselves would be required to get the vaccines as well.

[Heathen Hammer]

That's not what EO actually says, since it also applied to companies employed by executive branch. Again, why are Congressmen and people in Court System exempt, but the rest of population isn't?

[B. W.]

It wasn't supposed to be hard to get what I explicitly stated before. It's not technically possible to clarify it any further. So I have no need to repeat myself.

You still can't make a simple statement. It is because you were wrong and you know it.

Which opinion is that exactly?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33387997/

[PointOfViewGun]

That's not what EO actually says, since it also applied to companies employed by executive branch. Again, why are Congressmen and people in Court System exempt, but the rest of population isn't?

Executive order also including companies employed by the executive branch doesn't somehow mean that the executive order doesn't concern the executive branch. Your objection is illogical. The executive order mandated vaccines for those that came up with the executive order, hence, themselves.

You still can't make a simple statement. It is because you were wrong and you know it.

For you to say that you have to first accurately portray what I said. You failed multiple times and I've corrected you multiple times.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33387997/

That doesn't answer my question.