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Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #761
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    In my country its panning out as a disease of rich old people returning from cruises and overseas trips and refusing to self isolate...so far. I suspect the original UK plan of just isolating the old people has been canned because old people have too much wealth and clout and wealth to lock them all up, so the whole of society gets locked down instead.

    We're desperately scrambling to keep the virus out of the high rise public housing and the aboriginal communities, both loci for a lot of smokers and people loaded up with vulnerabilities. Luckily the refugee community has a very low age profile, so they are lower risk than most groups.

    The right wing lies about diseased foreigners creeping in like rats has been busted in this case, this virus has come into my country from places like the US and China, from the children of wealthy Communist Party officials getting educated her and our own people hopping off cruise ships the NSW State Government was too scared to fully isolate because the passengers were wealthy older voters from blue ribbon government seats.

    @Ludicus, in my country we think more will die world wide from the economic downturn than from the virus itself, and the "crash though" method was seriously contemplated by health professionals (they have a duty to consider all rational approaches). I think the political consequences of wealthy old people dying in the streets was too great so the government has half-arsed several approaches: some isolation, some economic shut down, some tracing and testing. Its politically easier to react than proact, "oh more deaths today so we need to act today" is convincing but the data from today usually reflects the reality three days or a week ago.

    Of course letting the virus eat its way though a large fraction of our old (and a smaller fraction of our young) increases the chance of a serious mutation because more hosts = more reproduction and more onward transmission and it could become The Big One.

    No point discussing Trumps policy, he lacks one. The man's incapable of reading a teleprompter or remembering simple facts he discussed moments before. The man is all tail and no dog, he does what he's told by the people he's scared (when they can get to him in time, he's easily become the tool of Saudi and Russian gangsters if he's left unsupervised with them) of and the rest is noise-making to impress his supporters. The US has a massive leadership hole at the top, I hope Pence at least can deliver within his own purview.
    Last edited by Cyclops; March 28, 2020 at 04:34 PM.
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  2. #762
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Here, in Europe, solidarity is in high demand but short supply.north-south economic storm over coronavirus
    I'm starting to think our finance minister is a diplomatic disaster. He made a similar gaffe domestically a week or so ago.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  3. #763

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Germany, France, Canada and many others have a massive leadership hole at the top, as globalist liberal administrations proved to be utterly incompetent and inept with dealing with crisis, while organizations like WHO and EU have fallen flat on their ass. I guess the lesson here is that even with media in its pockets, globalist elites are simply too corrupt and divorced from reality to address any problem, and when it is a big problem like the current pandemic, this became painfully obvious, unfortunately at the cost of many lives. Hopefully, the painful, but harsh lessons will be learned and corrupt globalist politicians like Trudeau and Merkel will never get elected again.

  4. #764

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I am sorry to disappoint you, but if you repeat stupid lies again, and again and again they don't become the truth
    Notice how their first thought in a crisis isn't wanting to protect their families or themselves, but to rush to defend poor oppressed billionaire President of The United States Trump from having his delicate feelings hurt? That's how you know it's a cult.

  5. #765
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    In my country its panning out as a disease of rich old people returning from cruises and overseas trips and refusing to self isolate...so far. I suspect the original UK plan of just isolating the old people has been canned because old people have too much wealth and clout and wealth to lock them all up, so the whole of society gets locked down instead.

    We're desperately scrambling to keep the virus out of the high rise public housing and the aboriginal communities, both loci for a lot of smokers and people loaded up with vulnerabilities. Luckily the refugee community has a very low age profile, so they are lower risk than most groups.

    The right wing lies about diseased foreigners creeping in like rats has been busted in this case, this virus has come into my country from places like the US and China, from the children of wealthy Communist Party officials getting educated her and our own people hopping off cruise ships the NSW State Government was too scared to fully isolate because the passengers were wealthy older voters from blue ribbon government seats.
    Yes, but Australia already closed its borders to China very early in Feb, and any Chinese Australians returning to Oz had to be quarantined in Christmas ing island as opposed to the taxpayer funded hotels that white australians get to enjoy.
    Furthermore, most of Australia's cases came from old white Lib voters like the Ruby Princess and as you said, coming back from overseas and refusing to quarantine or from Australians coming back from America like that Sydney GP who infected 50 of his patients when he went back to work.

    And also this,
    Coronavirus in Australia: Wealthy Melbourne couple embroiled in ‘hate campaign’, accused of quarantine breach

    One of Australia’s wealthiest enclaves has been rocked by a coronavirus-related civil war, with a prominent couple accused of flouting quarantine orders.
    It's been a massive misconception that the Chinese were the source of infection in either italy or australia; the italian cases in Rome by Chinese tourists were largely contained; the Italian outbreak in northern italy came from wealthy returnees coming back from skiing holidays; in sydney, the outbreaks were coming mainly from Australians coming from back from europe and america. Travel from China was already closed by the time the infection was in its nascency.

    @topic
    As the numbers in America reach 120,000 the USG looks like it's preparing for a 12 Monkeys scenario:
    Run for the hills! Pentagon sends teams into MOUNTAIN BUNKERS as pandemic preparations go into full swing

    28 Mar, 2020 20:38



    Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/484389-milita...s-coronavirus/

    Essential USG personnel are being relocated to Ravenrock and Cheyenne to wait out the apocalypse. That can only mean the USG doesn't believe it can beat this virus.

  6. #766

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Government intervention in economy is socialist. Cronyism is socialist by the very definition of the term itself.
    Cronyism is corruption, not government intervention. It has nothing to do with socialism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trump was one of the first world leaders to actually do something about the pandemic. All while WHO was kissing ass of Chinese government, and other Western leaders kept borders open because of "muh global trade". It is also ironic that criticism of Trump comes from the same side that proclaimed pandemic to be a "nothingburger" and just an excuse to be racist against Asians.
    This is false, yet you keep on repeating it despite being shown to be false. Trump was one of the few leaders that tried to downplay the corona virus crisis. Italy banned all travel from China on January 31 the moment first cases appeared in the country. USA enacted only travel restrictions for travelling to and from China 4 days after Italy. Restrictions were expanded on March 11 but there is still no full ban. USA citizens and residents still can travel to and from China. USA announced its first case on January 21st. You are also lying about how people who criticize Trump's response to the crisis are also the same people that downplayed the crisis. Why you lie to defend Trump like there is no tomorrow is beyond me.
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #767

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Hundreds of thousands of masks sent to Dutch hospitals have been recalled after tests showed they failed to protect the face or had defective filters. The Netherlands recently bought 1.3 million masks from China.
    The Dutch government has ordered a recall of around 600,000 masks out of a shipment of 1.3 million from China after they failed to meet quality standards.
    The defective masks had already been distributed to several hospitals currently battling the COVID-19 outbreak, news agency AFP and Dutch media reported. The Dutch Health Ministry has kept the rest of the shipment on hold.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw....ina/a-52949216

    So China went out and bought all the good supplies for their own country while they were lying about the seriousness of the virus. Now selling the world junk products because they took all the good stuff.

    Thanks China


    @POVgun

    WHO was kissing Chinese ass while China was covering up. That’s why the tweet from WHO on January 14th claiming “don’t worry, China says human to human transmission of coronavirus doesn’t happen”. Same reason they took so long to declare pandemic. Same reason WHO assistant director refused to answer a question about Taiwan yesterday because they “already talked about China”. WHO is a Chinese mouthpiece at this point.

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/29/video-top-doctor-bruce-aylward-pretends-not-hear-journalists-taiwan-questions-ends-video-call/
    Last edited by tgoodenow; March 29, 2020 at 09:18 AM.

  8. #768

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    @POVgun

    WHO was kissing Chinese ass while China was covering up. That’s why the tweet from WHO on January 14th claiming “don’t worry, China says human to human transmission of coronavirus doesn’t happen”. Same reason they took so long to declare pandemic. Same reason WHO assistant director refused to answer a question about Taiwan yesterday because they “already talked about China”. WHO is a Chinese mouthpiece at this point.

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/2...ds-video-call/
    How does that relate to Trump's performance?
    The Armenian Issue

  9. #769

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I was under the impression you didn’t think WHO was a Chinese puppet and WHO wasn’t downplaying the virus crisis; is this incorrect ?

  10. #770

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    I was under the impression you didn’t think WHO was a Chinese puppet and WHO wasn’t downplaying the virus crisis; is this incorrect ?
    WHO's position with China wsa of no concern for my post. You'd see that if you read it. However, I saw no example of WHO downplaying the corona virus crisis either.
    The Armenian Issue

  11. #771

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    WHO's position with China wsa of no concern for my post. You'd see that if you read it. However, I saw no example of WHO downplaying the corona virus crisis either.
    Then you weren't paying attention. Claiming there's no evidence for human-to-human transmission of the virus when it was already spreading like wildfire through China and delaying declaring pandemic for about a week after the criteria for it were fulfilled...

  12. #772

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Then you weren't paying attention. Claiming there's no evidence for human-to-human transmission of the virus when it was already spreading like wildfire through China and delaying declaring pandemic for about a week after the criteria for it were fulfilled...
    Was there evidence of the virus spreading between humans at the time WHO said there was no evidence? Or are you trying to extrapolate based on no expertise whatsoever? At the time you claim WHO made the statement that there was no evidence of transmission between humans there were only a couple dozen known cases. The wildfire that you're pointing at happened during February. It was declared a pandemic when it sufficiently met the requirements for a pandemic. Somehow declaring it a week late based on your standards didn't really help or hinder the spread of the virus.
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #773
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    No point discussing Trumps policy, he lacks one. The man's incapable of reading a teleprompter or remembering simple facts he discussed moments before.
    In fact, we never know what to expect from Trump... Trump backs away from New York quarantine - BBC
    after Cuomo warns it would be a declaration of war, and "Anti-American".
    ------
    Covid-19 — The Law and Limits of Quarantine | NEJM

    With community transmission occurring in several parts of the United States, it is time to recognize that travel bans and mandatory quarantines alone cannot end the outbreak. In a public letter to the Trump administration, we (along with more than 800 other public health and legal scholars and organizations) argue that more constructive tools are needed. 5 (1)
    Follow the link 5 Achieving A Fair and Effective COVID-19 Response: An Open Letter An Open Letter to Vice-President Mike Pence, and Other Federal, State and Local Leaders from Public Health and Legal Experts in the United States,

    Where mandatory measures are used, steps must be taken to ensure that people are protected fromjob loss, economic hardship, and undue burden
    Meanwhile in Brazil,
    Brazil court orders government to stop advising ... - France 24
    A federal court in Rio de Janeiro on Saturday banned the government from disseminating propaganda against confinement measures aimed at controlling the coronavirus pandemic.
    On Thursday night, President Jair Bolsonaro shared a video on Facebook showing a caravan of vehicles celebrating the reopening of businesses and schools in the southern state of Santa Catarina.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  14. #774

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Cronyism is corruption, not government intervention. It has nothing to do with socialism.
    Socialism implies government intervention. Cornyism is corruption in form of government regulating on behalf of a private entity. This is socialism by its very definition.
    This is false, yet you keep on repeating it despite being shown to be false. Trump was one of the few leaders that tried to downplay the corona virus crisis. Italy banned all travel from China on January 31 the moment first cases appeared in the country. USA enacted only travel restrictions for travelling to and from China 4 days after Italy. Restrictions were expanded on March 11 but there is still no full ban. USA citizens and residents still can travel to and from China. USA announced its first case on January 21st. You are also lying about how people who criticize Trump's response to the crisis are also the same people that downplayed the crisis. Why you lie to defend Trump like there is no tomorrow is beyond me.
    Shown where? There are plenty of articles from that time frame (January and February) from leftist media (same media that bashes Trump at every opportunity)expressing such narratives, a lot of them were posted in this very thread. We have plenty of "progressive" politicians mumbling about "virus not having nationality" as justification for keeping open travel, despite the fact that this is how the virus was spreading. Then we have WHO, which spent the first month praising socialist regime in China that caused the pandemic to begin with. Facts are on my side. Your posts indicate that you are simply upset that your favorite narrative has been discredited.

  15. #775

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    WHO's position with China wsa of no concern for my post. You'd see that if you read it. However, I saw no example of WHO downplaying the corona virus crisis either.
    If you read your post it makes a blanket statement “this is false” . In the quote from Heathen Hammer it included a statement about “WHO kissing Chinese ass”

    Maybe you should shorten to specific things you a responding to. You’d see these thugs if you read it.

    WHO on January 14th on their Twitter stated there is no concern for human to human transmission, which is either blatant incompetence or willful ignorance. Either is Chinese ass kissing. Refusing to include Taiwan in WHO or respond to their messages is Chinese ass kissing. Refusing to discuss the successful Taiwanese response because “we’ve already talked about China” is Chinese ass kissing.

    OFC these Chinese knew by the 14th it was human to human.

    Dec 25, - two medical staff in Wuhan hospitals have the virus, strong evidence of human to Human transmission. Six days later they declare no medical staff have the virus

    January 2 - only 27 of 41 patients can be linked to the virus, again strong evidence of human to human transmission.

    On 3 January 2020, China's National Health Committee Office published an announcement classifying the novel coronavirus as a highly pathogenic microorganisms (type 2), and request all the samples to be handed to provincial or higher level health authority, other organization or person with the virus sample should either destroy or transfer them and keep the log, and emphasis that all data must be kept secret and prior approval from the authority will be needed before any results can be published

    January 10 - this study ( https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30154-9/fulltext) notes)
    Notices spread within a family, 5 out of 7 who had never been to Wuhan. Obvious human to human transmission at that point.

    January 11: The Wuhan City Health Commission issues an update declaring, “All 739 close contacts, including 419 medical staff, have undergone medical observation and no related cases have been found . . . No new cases have been detected since January 3, 2020 Blatant lie

    Jan 13 - Thai authorities find 61 year old Chinese woman who had never been to the fish market has disease. Obvious human to human transmission

    Jan 14 - blatant WHO lie which states fake Chinese propaganda about human to human transmission.

    China knew in late December there were infections of people who had never been to the market. The obvious signs were there but WHO is Chinese propaganda https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316
    Last edited by tgoodenow; March 29, 2020 at 12:00 PM.

  16. #776
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Socialism implies government intervention. Cornyism is corruption in form of government regulating on behalf of a private entity. This is socialism by its very definition.
    False Tautalogy

    Socialism does imply government intervention - in what. But government of any type and political creed implies intervention.

    Cornyism is corruption in form of government regulating on behalf of a private entity
    That is not true as cronyism is simply a subset of favoritism which impacts pretty much every human organization.

    This is socialism by its very definition
    That does not follow from you previous two statements.
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  17. #777

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Socialism implies government intervention. Cornyism is corruption in form of government regulating on behalf of a private entity. This is socialism by its very definition.
    Simply repeating the same arguments doesn't make them true. It simply shows confusion regarding socialism or any other label you try to use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Shown where? There are plenty of articles from that time frame (January and February) from leftist media (same media that bashes Trump at every opportunity)expressing such narratives, a lot of them were posted in this very thread. We have plenty of "progressive" politicians mumbling about "virus not having nationality" as justification for keeping open travel, despite the fact that this is how the virus was spreading. Then we have WHO, which spent the first month praising socialist regime in China that caused the pandemic to begin with. Facts are on my side. Your posts indicate that you are simply upset that your favorite narrative has been discredited.

    Feel free to provide such articles. No one used the "viruses have no nationality" to suggest that we should keep travel open. You're just making stuff up. People used that argument against Trump's insistence to call the virus Chinese. We know for a fact that facts are not on your side. My post showed that and you couldn't even address a single one of them. You can only lie so much. It comes to bite you in the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    If you read your post it makes a blanket statement “this is false” . In the quote from Heathen Hammer it included a statement about “WHO kissing Chinese ass”
    Maybe you should shorten to specific things you a responding to. You’d see these thugs if you read it.
    WHO on January 14th on their Twitter stated there is no concern for human to human transmission, which is either blatant incompetence or willful ignorance. Either is Chinese ass kissing. Refusing to include Taiwan in WHO or respond to their messages is Chinese ass kissing. Refusing to discuss the successful Taiwanese response because “we’ve already talked about China” is Chinese ass kissing.
    OFC these Chinese knew by the 14th it was human to human.
    Dec 25, - two medical staff in Wuhan hospitals have the virus, strong evidence of human to Human transmission. Six days later they declare no medical staff have the virus
    January 2 - only 27 of 41 patients can be linked to the virus, again strong evidence of human to human transmission.
    On 3 January 2020, China's National Health Committee Office published an announcement classifying the novel coronavirus as a highly pathogenic microorganisms (type 2), and request all the samples to be handed to provincial or higher level health authority, other organization or person with the virus sample should either destroy or transfer them and keep the log, and emphasis that all data must be kept secret and prior approval from the authority will be needed before any results can be published
    January 10 - this study ( https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...54-9/fulltext) notes)
    Notices spread within a family, 5 out of 7 who had never been to Wuhan. Obvious human to human transmission at that point.
    January 11: The Wuhan City Health Commission issues an update declaring, “All 739 close contacts, including 419 medical staff, have undergone medical observation and no related cases have been found . . . No new cases have been detected since January 3, 2020 Blatant lie
    Jan 13 - Thai authorities find 61 year old Chinese woman who had never been to the fish market has disease. Obvious human to human transmission
    Jan 14 - blatant WHO lie which states fake Chinese propaganda about human to human transmission.
    China knew in late December there were infections of people who had never been to the market. The obvious signs were there but WHO is Chinese propaganda https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316
    I made that statement and then explained in detail what it was referring to. WHO's position on China was nowhere to be found. You just jumped the gun and you're unwilling to acknowledge that now.

    Nice copy paste from Wikipedia... You're mixing up a number of issues to make it appear as if they're all related to WHO. We're not discussing whether China lied about the cases or not. You're trying to use claims related to that to argue that WHO had evidence of human to human transmission when they made the statement about that. It's amazing how you criticize WHO for not being honest while utilizing a dishonest argumentation yourself. Bravo.
    The Armenian Issue

  18. #778

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    False Tautalogy

    Socialism does imply government intervention - in what. But government of any type and political creed implies intervention.



    That is not true as cronyism is simply a subset of favoritism which impacts pretty much every human organization.



    That does not follow from you previous two statements.
    Capitalism implies private ownership of means of production - which is not the case if some means of production get favors from the state. Again, this is from the conventional definition of the term itself.

  19. #779
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    We have plenty of "progressive" politicians mumbling about "virus not having nationality" as justification for keeping open travel
    A false statement; a false correlation. Much on the contrary. How Republicans and Democrats Think About Coronavirus
    Red and Blue America Aren’t Experiencing the Same Pandemic
    With a few prominent exceptions, especially Ohio, states with Republican governors have been slower, or less likely, than those run by Democrats to impose restrictions on their residents. Until earlier this week, Donald Trump downplayed the disease’s danger and overstated the extent to which the United States had “control” over it.
    of the states that have taken the fewest actions to restrict public gatherings or limit restaurant service on a statewide basis—such as Texas, Missouri, and Alabama—almost all have Republican governors.
    That’s left Democratic-run cities in those red states—such as Houston, Tucson, Nashville, and Atlanta—to try to impose their own rules on public gatherings. Yet all those local limits face an obvious problem: People from elsewhere in the state can still travel to their jurisdictions.
    A national Gallup poll released Monday, for instance, found that while 73 percent of Democrats and 64 percent of independents said they feared that they or someone in their family might be exposed to the coronavirus, only 42 percent of Republicans agreed.
    Other surveys have found comparably stunning differences. In an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released Sunday, Republicans were only half as likely as Democrats to say that they planned to stop attending large gatherings, and just one-third as likely to say that they had cut back on eating at restaurants. In an NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Tuesday, just over half of Republicans said the threat from the virus had been exaggerated, compared with one in five Democrats and two in five independents.

    About half of Democrats said they had changed travel plans and decided not to attend large gatherings. In both cases, less than one-third of Republicans agreed.
    More penetration of the virus into reliably Republican rural regions probably won’t erase the partisan gap in perception of the danger.
    Check Live Flight Tracker FlightAware in the US. China contained virus...

    As a side note-in fact, viruses have no nationality, in doubt ask Trump's scientific adviser, Dr.Fauci.
    -------
    Italy ordered a nationwide quarantine, followed by Spain and Greece and France.
    Share of French people willing to accept quarantine measures in order to contain the spread of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) in France in 2020 : 70%
    What about Conservative Americans?
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 29, 2020 at 03:27 PM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  20. #780

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Germany, France, Canada and many others have a massive leadership hole at the top, as globalist liberal administrations proved to be utterly incompetent and inept with dealing with crisis, while organizations like WHO and EU have fallen flat on their ass. I guess the lesson here is that even with media in its pockets, globalist elites are simply too corrupt and divorced from reality to address any problem, and when it is a big problem like the current pandemic, this became painfully obvious, unfortunately at the cost of many lives. Hopefully, the painful, but harsh lessons will be learned and corrupt globalist politicians like Trudeau and Merkel will never get elected again.
    I find it entertaining how every single post of yours is about globalism and liberals, and your fantasy scenarios where current leaders won't be re-elected or whatever because you think it so. Keep it up I guess.


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