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Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #1381
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    No, it was just those guys in the pics PoVG posted, and they're responsible for their own actions. If DeBlasio wanted to make threats on Twitter to someone in particular, it should have been to them.

    Although making threats probably isn't the most effective way to get them to comply, especially considering it's very unlikely that any of them are on Twitter.
    So basically because he wasn't specific about who he was talking about and said Jewish community (which i guess implies all Jews) instead of Orthodox Jews, thats where the outrrage over his comments come from?

  2. #1382

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    So basically because he wasn't specific about who he was talking about and said Jewish community (which i guess implies all Jews) instead of Orthodox Jews, thats where the outrrage over his comments come from?
    It's not even Orthodox Jews, it's just those guys in the pictures, just them as individuals. And they are Satmar Hasids, meaning they don't watch the news, they don't have smartphones or access to the regular internet, so I'm not sure if they even know the rules, but since they are almost certainly not on Twitter, de Blasio taking out his frustration about it on Twitter is pretty much useless, and was interpreted by many as generalizing about, blaming and/or threatening the Jewish community collectively. Being the mayor of New York and having political ties to the Satmar Hasids, de Blasio must know they aren't on Twitter, so what was his point? It was politically foolish at the very least, so now he gets to repeatedly apologize for it.

    Israel had the same problem with Haredi funerals. The problem was easily solved by speaking to the rabbis and explaining to them the situation.
    Last edited by sumskilz; April 30, 2020 at 08:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #1383

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    As far as the spread of the virus goes, the orthodox Jewish community has faced unique problems presented by the way its socio-religious practices influence its response to public policy. It’s apparently a problem in Israel too, not just NYC:
    Ultra-Orthodox Jews failing to comply with government instructions to contain the coronavirus are causing it to spread so quickly that Israeli officials are considering blockading entire communities to protect the wider population.

    The virus is mushrooming in ultra-Orthodox communities as much as four to eight times faster than elsewhere in Israel.

    In the Tel Aviv suburb of Bnei Brak, where 95 percent of the residents are ultra-Orthodox, the number of confirmed cases spiked from 267 on Friday to 571 on Tuesday. The total was nearly that of Jerusalem, whose population is four times bigger.

    Although they make up only 12 percent of Israel’s population, the ultra-Orthodox account for 40 to 60 percent of the coronavirus patients at four major hospitals, hospital officials told Israeli news media. The true dimensions of the epidemic among the ultra-Orthodox can only be estimated because testing is rare.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/w...-orthodox.html
    “There is not a single Hasidic family that has been untouched,” said Mr. Leifer, 34. “It is a plague on a biblical scale.”

    The coronavirus has hit the Hasidic Jewish community in the New York area with devastating force, killing influential religious leaders and tearing through large, tight-knit families at a rate that community leaders and some public health data suggest may exceed that of other ethnic or religious groups.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/n...asidic-ny.html
    It’s fair to point out that in other cases where ultra conservative, repressive and reclusive religious communities flout secular public guidelines or regulations, the response can be to affectionately refer to those communities as “no go zones” while questioning immigration policies - rather than to reflexively defend these communities based on accusations of discrimination or a failure to communicate.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  4. #1384
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It's not even Orthodox Jews, it's just those guys in the pictures, just them as individuals. And they are Satmar Hasids, meaning they don't watch the news, they don't have smartphones or access to the regular internet, so I'm not sure if they even know the rules, but since they are almost certainly not on Twitter, de Blasio taking out his frustration about it on Twitter is pretty much useless, and was interpreted by many as generalizing about, blaming and/or threatening the Jewish community collectively. Being the mayor of New York and having political ties to the Satmar Hasids, de Blasio must know they aren't on Twitter, so what was his point? It was politically foolish at the very least, so now he gets to repeatedly apologize for it.

    Israel had the same problem with Haredi funerals. The problem was easily solved by speaking to the rabbis and explaining to them the situation.
    That makes more sense. I'm sure Blasio only made that Twitter post to reiterate what the rules are for everyone not just a message to the Satmar Hasids which you pointed out do not use Twitter or technology like that in general.

    I really doubt though with the pandemic thats been going on since February and the lockdowns that came after that they had no idea what the rules were during their lockdown. Information still travels through word of mouth or newspapers if you still buy them.

  5. #1385

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It's not even Orthodox Jews, it's just those guys in the pictures, just them as individuals. And they are Satmar Hasids, meaning they don't watch the news, they don't have smartphones or access to the regular internet, so I'm not sure if they even know the rules, but since they are almost certainly not on Twitter, de Blasio taking out his frustration about it on Twitter is pretty much useless, and was interpreted by many as generalizing about, blaming and/or threatening the Jewish community collectively. Being the mayor of New York and having political ties to the Satmar Hasids, de Blasio must know they aren't on Twitter, so what was his point? It was politically foolish at the very least, so now he gets to repeatedly apologize for it.

    Israel had the same problem with Haredi funerals. The problem was easily solved by speaking to the rabbis and explaining to them the situation.
    Given that many in the picture are using masks its fairly certain those people were not living under rocks. They knew what was going on. I doubt when people refer to groups in general they're not digging up exactly which sub-group they belong to. This scrutiny is senseless.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #1386

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    I really doubt though with the pandemic thats been going on since February and the lockdowns that came after that they had no idea what the rules were during their lockdown. Information still travels through word of mouth or newspapers if you still buy them.
    They knew to wear masks at least, although from the pics, a lot weren't wearing them right. A lot of them may not even speak or read English well. They speak Yiddish at home and their whole education system is based on it. Most of them probably don't know that people have landed on the moon or that the moon is something you could actually land on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    As far as the spread of the virus goes, the orthodox Jewish community has faced unique problems presented by the way its socio-religious practices influence its response to public policy. It’s apparently a problem in Israel too, not just NYC
    Anyway, it's not Orthodox Jews, it's not "the Jewish community", it's some Haredi Jews (Satmar being a Haredi sect). You can call them ultra-Orthodox in English, but they consider it a pejorative. That journalist for the New York Times managed to write an entire article about the Haredi response to coronavirus in Israel without ever mentioning that the Israeli health minister, the one ultimately responsible for instituting the rules, is himself Haredi. On the one hand, he should certainly know better than anyone else that you can't just make announcements via the press and expect the Haredim to actually get the message. On the other hand, the ministry over which he presides has much more aggressively and preemptively handled the COVID-19 problem than any government in the US has.

    That article is from a month ago, after the situation was communicated to them, they have largely followed the rules, but even if they did so without exception, it would still spread through their neighborhoods quicker than anywhere else because they live 8 to 12 people in run down three bedroom apartments with little to no isolation of airflow between the apartments. They believe the ultimate fate of the universe is dependent on their observance of various rituals, but they can be reasoned with, because according to their belief, almost any religious law can be temporarily suspended if it means preventing the death of someone innocent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #1387
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    A lame distraction attempt. UFO videos have been officially released by Pentagon
    The Navy previously acknowledged the veracity of the videos in September of last year. They are officially releasing them now.
    As expected, there nothing new under the sun. A lawmaker is asking the Navy whether UFOs might be from China
    ------
    This explains why the virus spread so quickly and is now circulating around the world. Sue them, Trump!
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  8. #1388

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I doubt when people refer to groups in general they're not digging up exactly which sub-group they belong to. This scrutiny is senseless.
    I think the ridiculous outfits kind of gives it away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #1389
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Israel had the same problem with Haredi funerals. The problem was easily solved by speaking to the rabbis and explaining to them the situation.
    Obviously.
    Well,at least they were using masks. Much better than these idiots. The rightwing Christian preachers in deep denial over Covid
    Even in Israel cases soar among ultra-orthodox, but generally speaking,Israel's coronavirus policy is working.They are doing a fine job.Congratulations to Israel's national health service.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #1390

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    A lame distraction attempt. UFO videos have been officially released by Pentagon

    As expected, there nothing new under the sun. A lawmaker is asking the Navy whether UFOs might be from China
    ------
    This explains why the virus spread so quickly and is now circulating around the world. Sue them, Trump!
    We know why the virus spread across the world, and it has nothing to do with the UFO/foreign surveillance tech story from nearly a year ago:
    Axios has compiled a timeline of the earliest weeks of the coronavirus outbreak in China, highlighting when the cover-up started and ended — and showing how, during that time, the virus already started spreading around the world, including to the United States.

    Why it matters: A study published in March indicated that if Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95% and its geographic spread limited.
    This timeline, compiled from information reported by the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the South China Morning Post and other sources, shows that China's cover-up and the delay in serious measures to contain the virus lasted about three weeks.

    https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-e...718a5faab.html
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    Anyway, it's not Orthodox Jews, it's not "the Jewish community", it's some Haredi Jews (Satmar being a Haredi sect). You can call them ultra-Orthodox in English, but they consider it a pejorative. That journalist for the New York Times managed to write an entire article about the Haredi response to coronavirus in Israel without ever mentioning that the Israeli health minister, the one ultimately responsible for instituting the rules, is himself Haredi. On the one hand, he should certainly know better than anyone else that you can't just make announcements via the press and expect the Haredim to actually get the message. On the other hand, the ministry over which he presides has much more aggressively and preemptively handled the COVID-19 problem than any government in the US has.

    That article is from a month ago, after the situation was communicated to them, they have largely followed the rules, but even if they did so without exception, it would still spread through their neighborhoods quicker than anywhere else because they live 8 to 12 people in run down three bedroom apartments with little to no isolation of airflow between the apartments. They believe the ultimate fate of the universe is dependent on their observance of various rituals, but they can be reasoned with, because according to their belief, almost any religious law can be temporarily suspended if it means preventing the death of someone innocent.
    Fair enough. Nevertheless, I don’t understand the criticism of de Blasio in this case, and this is a guy who is commonly reviled. The problems unique to “some” in the Orthodox community aren’t immediately clear to be a matter of communication or municipal action. If the argument is that some in the community are uniquely unaware and therefore the crackdown was problematic, it would merely highlight the natural consequences of such a severe level of prolonged self imposed social isolation from the world, - and perhaps how it could even be possible in the midst of one of the busiest and densely populated cities in the world.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  11. #1391

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I doubt its distraction, more like the classic CIA "muddying the waters" tactic.

  12. #1392

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Critics of the mayor's action who pointed out that others were violating social distancing and gathering rules.
    So, no one here. Excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's understandable why Bill de Blasio was furious with such a gathering. I doubt any of the people coming to the defense of the gathering would feel the same if it was a Muslim funeral...
    Lets see. Some people (some Jews) did something and it is thus "understandable" that de(r fuhrer) Blasio was furious and called out all Jews (the Jewish community).


    So if some other people (say some muslims, since you are introducing them) did something (I don't know, hijacked some planes and flew then into towers or shot up nightclubs or something, or blew up pizza parlors), and then someone furious about it called out the 'muslim community', it would be "understandable" and you would defend that...
    Last edited by Infidel144; April 30, 2020 at 02:15 PM.

  13. #1393

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    delete

  14. #1394

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Chicago is quietly removing everything they put in McCormick Place, like tents etc for treatment being nothing like the Andromeda Strain happened, but the state is still shutdown for another month, depending on your business (liqueur stores are still considered essential and tattoo parlors get to open to. I'll let you figure that one out).

    From what I've been told there have been layoffs of doctors and nurses who were hired to take on this huge outbreak that never happened.

    Its rather obvious we were following a flawed model. From the start really, but now there is no excuse.

    Dealing with patients myself its interesting, about 75% think the whole thing here is stupid and over blown. Another 15% or so are kinda "eh I dunno" and then the last 10% are freaked out like crazy still.

    I recently saw a girl for treatment that her mother delayed at first with this but finally brought her in after they didn't leave their house for 6 weeks. Mind you nothing about this girls condition or anyone in their family is in the danger group for Covid-19.

    And I got news from someone I work with closely that shes been permanently let go due to "Covid-19 head count reductions" and I feel horrible for her, she was fantastic at her job and why I work with that company.

    My wife, who is more on facebook etc being a mom, mentioned to me "You know how you talk about how stupid the average person is? I didn't realize how bad it was until this brought it out." This in relation to the women posting on facebook their hysterias.

    My only real regret in this, is that I wasn't cash liquid. I could have made soooooo much money, and you know that people are doing just that.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  15. #1395

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Lets see. Some people (some Jews) did something and it is thus "understandable" that de(r fuhrer) Blasio was furious and called out all Jews (the Jewish community).

    So if some other people (say some muslims, since you are introducing them) did something (I don't know, hijacked some planes and flew then into towers or shot up nightclubs or something, or blew up pizza parlors), and then someone furious about it called out the 'muslim community', it would be "understandable" and you would defend that...
    If a great chunk of a community does that sure. It would be understandable the way Blasio did. This was a big thing for people who identify themselves as Jewish first. If this was a case of few Jews standing side by side you'd have a point. I certainly wouldn't childishly call that person "communazi" or "fuhrer".
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #1396

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    And in what may be some good news, a couple of preliminary studies (not peer reviewed yet) show that it is much less likely to get coronavirus outdoors:

    "Results: Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. Conclusions: All identified outbreaks of three or more cases occurred in an indoor environment, which confirms that sharing indoor space is a major SARS-CoV-2 infection risk." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....04.20053058v1
    "Results: Of the 110 cases examined, 27 (24.6%) were primary cases who generated secondary cases. The odds that a primary case transmitted COVID-19 in a closed environment was 18.7 times greater compared to an open-air environment (95% confidence interval [CI]: 6.0, 57.9). Conclusions: It is plausible that closed environments contribute to secondary transmission of COVID-19 and promote superspreading events. Our findings are also consistent with the declining incidence of COVID-19 cases in China, as gathering in closed environments was prohibited in the wake of the rapid spread of the disease." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....28.20029272v2
    Last edited by Infidel144; April 30, 2020 at 03:01 PM.

  17. #1397

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And in what may be some good news, a couple of preliminary studies (not peer reviewed yet) show that it is much less likely to get coronavirus outdoors:
    There are a couple of studies, _not_ peer reviewed yet, that suggest outdoor transmission is unlikely or much less prevalent than indoor.
    You mean in areas where the air is far less likely to be recirculated their is a lower transmission of a viral disease?

    You don't say. How shocking.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  18. #1398

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Chicago is quietly removing everything they put in McCormick Place, like tents etc for treatment being nothing like the Andromeda Strain happened, but the state is still shutdown for another month, depending on your business (liqueur stores are still considered essential and tattoo parlors get to open to. I'll let you figure that one out).

    From what I've been told there have been layoffs of doctors and nurses who were hired to take on this huge outbreak that never happened.

    Its rather obvious we were following a flawed model. From the start really, but now there is no excuse.

    Dealing with patients myself its interesting, about 75% think the whole thing here is stupid and over blown. Another 15% or so are kinda "eh I dunno" and then the last 10% are freaked out like crazy still.

    I recently saw a girl for treatment that her mother delayed at first with this but finally brought her in after they didn't leave their house for 6 weeks. Mind you nothing about this girls condition or anyone in their family is in the danger group for Covid-19.

    And I got news from someone I work with closely that shes been permanently let go due to "Covid-19 head count reductions" and I feel horrible for her, she was fantastic at her job and why I work with that company.

    My wife, who is more on facebook etc being a mom, mentioned to me "You know how you talk about how stupid the average person is? I didn't realize how bad it was until this brought it out." This in relation to the women posting on facebook their hysterias.

    My only real regret in this, is that I wasn't cash liquid. I could have made soooooo much money, and you know that people are doing just that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Trump supporter logic:

    "You told me if I didn't use a parachute when jumping out of an airplane, I'd fall fast and die. Well, I did that, and I fell slowly! So I really didn't need to wear a parachute and you telling me to wear one is communism!"

  19. #1399

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    liqueur stores are still considered essential and tattoo parlors get to open to. I'll let you figure that one out).
    I would say liquor stores should remain open and should be considered essential, but tattoo parlors? Seriously? Let me guess, hiking trails are closed? Its almost like there is some kind of informal competition on which government can come up with a dumber idea.

  20. #1400

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Let me guess, hiking trails are closed? Its almost like there is some kind of informal competition on which government can come up with a dumber idea.

    Kinda. The parks are open but only the walking trails *but* the parking lots are closed. So instead people park in the street which is a hell of a lot more dangerous.

    Sooo a park by me decided to open HALF the parking lot, which means people still park as close as they would otherwise, BUT they still need to park on the street too!

    Friend of mine from the UK though was telling me things much more idiotic than most of the US.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

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