Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #2981

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    It may not be obvious to an outsider, but in Europe those kinds of divides (either Eastern and Western or some more complex division) have always been motivated by political and cultural history and not physical geography. It is surprising and thoroughly unintuitive for a European to hear that a country's location should determine whether it belongs to the west or the east.

    If I need to come up with an analogy, many Europeans may it find hard to understand why Michigan let alone Ohio belong to an area called the Midwest although they are quite close to the Atlantic and definitely far away from the geographic western part of the United States. Even more so if Alaska is considered. Likewise, Maryland belongs to the South although it is not that far from the Canadian border whereas California, bordering Mexico, is not. For someone familiar with the political and cultural history of the United States, those divisions make all the sense nonetheless.
    Michigan and Ohio are not very close to the coastlune of of the Atlantic ocean. Driving to the East coat from Muchigan and Ohio is a 10 hour drive or more by car. Clearly Midwest states like Iowa are a closer drive by car.

    And dialetically, accents of Michigan and Ohio are different than those of the East Coat, which I can say by personal experience. The dialect of Michigan and Ohio is calked the Great Lakes dialect, and us distinct from the dialects of the East Coast.

    Most people of places like Michigan, Illinois and Ohio fo not condider themselve part of the East Coast.

  2. #2982

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    These posts are spiralling into confusion. I'm just trying to get a succinct summary of your argument, as it seems you're spending a lot of time debating definitions.



    35,000 people have died in Florida from Covid. Is that something to be proud of and brag about? 900 have died in similarly sized Australia, where targeted and severe lockdowns have been used in such a way that Australians can now go to stadiums to watch sports and concerts. Come back when you have an actual argument, or sit back and let Legio do it.
    The assumption is that strict quaratine actions would have prevented those deaths and that assumption is not supported by the data.

    The truth that that you and other advocated don't want to admit is that the wearing of mask, dhutyong down businesses like restaurants don't seem to have made a significant diffetence. California despute its more stringent policies, doesn't seem much better than Texas. The states controlled by Democrats are not better off than those by Republicams. New York for a long time was the leading state in the number of deaths, at one time New York had the majority of Covid deaths despite having a Democratic government.

    Despite what sone of health officials say, we have no solid scientific evidence that the 35,000 deaths in Florida would hsve been significantly reduced had Florida enacted more stringent locked down procedures. A comparison with other states does not support such a conclusion.

    Perhaps in an autocratic country like China controls stringent enough to make a difference, but that is not going to happen in more open democratic countries.

    The truth that msny don't want to face is that all these lockdown procedures don't seen to have made a major impact in stemming Covid-19 one way or the other. Countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Korea are essentially islands that can effectively isolate themselves, something most countries cannot really do.

    It has been a year, and the undeniable truth that a year latet Sweden still has not become the basket case luke Italy that many keep predicting.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; May 12, 2021 at 04:35 PM.

  3. #2983

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The assumption is that strict quaratine actions would have prevented those deaths and that assumption is not supported by the data.
    The truth that that you and other advocated don't want to admit is that the wearing of mask, dhutyong down businesses like restaurants don't seem to have made a significant diffetence. California despute its more stringent policies, doesn't seem much better than Texas. The states controlled by Democrats are not better off than those by Republicams. New York for a long time was the leading state in the number of deaths, at one time New York had the majority of Covid deaths despite having a Democratic government.
    Despite what sone of health officials say, we have no solid scientific evidence that the 35,000 deaths in Florida would hsve been significantly reduced had Florida enacted more stringent locked down procedures. A comparison with other states does not support such a conclusion.
    Perhaps in an autocratic country like China controls stringent enough to make a difference, but that is not going to happen in more open democratic countries.
    The truth that msny don't want to face is that all these lockdown procedures don't seen to have made a major impact in stemming Covid-19 one way or the other. Countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Korea are essentially islands that can effectively isolate themselves, something most countries cannot really do.
    It has been a year, and the undeniable truth that a year latet Sweden still has not become the basket case luke Italy that many keep predicting.
    Many don't seem to want to face is that strict lockdown measures or voluntary lockdown measures states or countries followed half-assed measures. This was true for Republicans and Democrats. First and foremost, this was a public administration failure worldwide and then a pandemic. In many places, state level strictness even differed with country level strictness. There was no coherence. People have the same misconception about lockdowns as they do with vaccines. They don't show results in a linear fashion. Just like having having 20% of the population vaccinated doesn't mean you'll get 20% less in daily cases lockdown measures work the same. To start being effective they have to be applied at a certain degree.

    We have seen this work in New Zealand and Australia to a degree. Heck, we saw the how the strictest lockdown measure worked in China where quarantine measures help contain the spread of the virus. It worked. It's a myth that if you're not an island you can't isolate yourself from outside contaminants. You certainly can if you want to. However, especially developed nations, are so full of a sense of entitlement that they think that they should get results without the necessary actions. Countries, especially the EU as a block, or USA with Canada, had all the chance to suffocate the virus out of their country with coherent and coordinated lockdown measures. Politicians, Democrat or Republican, all just wanted to appear to be doing something rather than actually doing something meaningful.

    This has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy doesn't disallow proper lockdown in the face of a pandemic. What democracy or some Western cultures wouldn't allow is the kind of tacking Taiwan did in mass. Lockdown measures. Not at all. Not doing it the first round? Sure, understandable-ish. They still saw what happened in Wuhan. They saw what a big problem it could be. Let's say they didn't live through it and hence they were ignorant. OK. The second time? In some countries, the third time? There is absolutely no excuse. By cowering behind the economic impact of a properly strict yet finite lockdown, which would be highly manageable, many countries opted to live under semi-lockdown infinitely by comparison. The outcome is that its much more costly not to closed down for a month properly.

    Deaths per million people:

    1. Sweden - 136.4
    2. Denmark - 42.8
    3. Finland - 16.6
    4. Norway - 14.1


    What happened with Sweden then? The country with top 5th in life expectancy (a relatively healthy public), with one of the best healthcare system in the world, with a culture that respects personal space, managed to get many times more deaths per capita compared to its neighbors with very similar development and culture. They still utilized some lock down measures to keep the numbers less high. Why Denmark still fared worse than Finland and Norway? The way it handled the second wave during the winter of 2020/2021 which is when it diverged from the others. Compared to its neighbors Sweden is the Italy of Scandinavian countries.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The truth that msny don't want to face is that all these lockdown procedures don't seen to have made a major impact in stemming Covid-19 one way or the other. Countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Korea are essentially islands that can effectively isolate themselves, something most countries cannot really do.
    You haven't been following either this thread, or the news, have you. All you're presenting is opinion.

    The 'island' effect you report certainly makes borders easier to control, but it's not the silver bullet you think it is.

    Victoria, Australia had a Covid outbreak. At one point last year the state who's population is smaller than London's, had the same daily Covid case count as the entire United Kingdom combined. But the outbreak didn't spread across the country, because land borders were managed - not because Victoria is an island, which it isn't. Australia is physically as large as the Continental US, with far fewer people to man borders, yet borders were successfully closed to all but essential traffic. Once borders were closed, it was a strict lockdown that was enforced to the point of elimination that ended the Covid outbreak - it took 3 months, and a lot of difficulty. Prior to the lockdown voluntary measures were used - but the math suggested that voluntary measures stabilised the outbreak, but wouldn't bring it down - extending it indefinitely and causing more death. But thanks to a hard lockdown, Covid was successfully eliminated - completely. Now the ongoing risk of outbreak is being managed by quarantines.

    The fact that I can now go to see sports in stadiums with tens of thousands of people, or join a mosh pit to see a band is all I need to know that when lockdowns are done right, they can eliminate the disease entirely. Whereas voluntary measures can only stabilise an outbreak.

    Which is why I ask the questions of Legio on the previous page - to seek overlap of opinion. For me the question of lockdown, is whether the strength and length of lockdown to eliminate the virus is worth the economic toll. In Victoria, it cost a lot. Government will be paying back debt incurred for a generation. But the state's economy is already bouncing back, and has been relatively normal for months.

    So go away, and restructure your argument to be about the relative value of lockdown. Rather than whether it works or not. Because that is just a matter of stringency and public buy in.
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  5. #2985
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    The assumption is that strict quaratine actions would have prevented those deaths and that assumption is not supported by the data.

    The truth that that you and other advocated don't want to admit is that the wearing of mask, dhutyong down businesses like restaurants don't seem to have made a significant diffetence. California despute its more stringent policies, doesn't seem much better than Texas. The states controlled by Democrats are not better off than those by Republicams. New York for a long time was the leading state in the number of deaths, at one time New York had the majority of Covid deaths despite having a Democratic government.

    Despite what sone of health officials say, we have no solid scientific evidence that the 35,000 deaths in Florida would hsve been significantly reduced had Florida enacted more stringent locked down procedures. A comparison with other states does not support such a conclusion.

    Perhaps in an autocratic country like China controls stringent enough to make a difference, but that is not going to happen in more open democratic countries.

    The truth that msny don't want to face is that all these lockdown procedures don't seen to have made a major impact in stemming Covid-19 one way or the other. Countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Korea are essentially islands that can effectively isolate themselves, something most countries cannot really do.

    It has been a year, and the undeniable truth that a year latet Sweden still has not become the basket case luke Italy that many keep predicting.
    California always appears much better than Texas.

  6. #2986

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I had thought the term evolved from a geographic reality? Well at least a relative geographic reference.
    Yes, just like the South and the West in United States. Those things are just very relative, subjective, and intertwined with historical perceptions and cultural traits. This whole thing started when someone looked at the map of Europe and thought that Finland is in Eastern Europe. Which is like I took a look of the US map, discovered that geographical center lies roughly where Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming meet, and by that logic called Arkansas eastern US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    My vague understanding is that when the vast majority of US citizens lived east of the Appalachians the West was literally west of the mountains, but as California etc registered on the US political horizon it became necessary to refine the terminology. Of course the term would refer to the places and the constructs identified with them: Geographic realities intersect with political and economic identities and names become queasily multipurposed in a most unsatisfyingly Saussurean way.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Michigan and Ohio are not very close to the coastlune of of the Atlantic ocean. Driving to the East coat from Muchigan and Ohio is a 10 hour drive or more by car. Clearly Midwest states like Iowa are a closer drive by car.

    And dialetically, accents of Michigan and Ohio are different than those of the East Coat, which I can say by personal experience. The dialect of Michigan and Ohio is calked the Great Lakes dialect, and us distinct from the dialects of the East Coast.

    Most people of places like Michigan, Illinois and Ohio fo not condider themselve part of the East Coast.
    Yes, you are underlining the fact that assigning things like east and west to human geography in terms of physical geography usually makes no sense.

  7. #2987
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post

    35,000 people have died in Florida from Covid. Is that something to be proud of and brag about? 900 have died in similarly sized Australia
    Size is relative...
    One is the same size as mainland USA; excluding Alaska, & the other...well Florida.
    Reality, one cannot really compare Florida with Australia.
    Thing is we have had a few community cases as of late that remain unexplained. So the virus is probably???Out there in the community. As to why it hasn't yet taken a hold remains a mystery.

    For sure being an island and that a fairly isolated one helps as far as shielding oneself from the virus. And it also helps we have 25mil living on a landmass the size of mainland USA ( minus Alaska).

    When you're cramped up like the EU or USA no amount of lockdown is going to help. As is already the sad reality.

  8. #2988

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Vast majority of Australia is uninhabited. The total size of a country is irrelevant when population lives in few areas. Australian metropolitan areas of Sydney and Melbourne are similarly dense areas comparable to Florida's Tamba Bay and Miami metropolitan areas.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    The thing is our cities are very isolated, the distance between Melbourne and Sydney for example is about 900km or roughly 9hrs drive (at a 100k/hr on the highway); Sydney to Brisbane is maybe 1200km (roughly 12 hr drive by car), with very little in between. So if an outbreak happens in Melbourne it's easier to contain if you're on it within a reasonable amount of time; whereas an outbreak in Miami will spread like wildfire to neighbouring areas and just keep going as major cities/large population hubs in the USA are relatively close to each other.

  10. #2990

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    It's easy to largely cut out cities from each other easy in pretty much any country. The distance between them doesn't really change that fact. All you need is to cut off the highways going out of the city that are about half a dozen for Miami and you've already managed to halt the ground traffic out of the metropolitan area. The national guard can easily do that.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Look at it this way, Victoria + NSW are about the same size as California. The former two states combined have a population of about 15 million while California has a population of roughly 40mil. And discrepancy in population only grows as you add more states/areas to the equation.
    The problem is within this area we have two cities with 5 + 6 mil each (Sydney + Melbourne), while California might have 6 or 7 cities/towns with similar populations.
    Whereas we would have to literally close only x2 Highways, you would (as you already stated), have to close multiple highways, etc.
    And the problems only multiply and get worse for the US as you add more states...
    Last edited by Stario; May 16, 2021 at 08:16 AM.

  12. #2992

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Look at it this way, Victoria + NSW are about the same size as California. The former two states combined have a population of about 15 million while California has a population of roughly 40mil. And discrepancy in population only grows as you add more states/areas to the equation.
    The problem is within this area we have two cities with 5 + 6 mil each (Sydney + Melbourne), while California might have 6 or 7 cities/towns
    Irrelevant. The kind of contrast you tried to present doesn't exist whether we're in Australia or California/Florida. All have big cities with dense neighborhoods.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Irrelevant. The kind of contrast you tried to present doesn't exist whether we're in Australia or California/Florida. All have big cities with dense neighborhoods.
    Look at it this way the contiguous States contain a population density of roughly 75 people per square kilometer as opposed to roughly same size Australia of 3 people per square kilometer.

  14. #2994

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Look at it this way the contiguous States contain a population density of roughly 75 people per square kilometer as opposed to roughly same size Australia of 3 people per square kilometer.
    This is not true for pretty much all cities. You're adding wild life areas to play with numbers to dilute the population density. Miami metropolitan area's population density is about 388 per km2. Sydney's is 433 per km2.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This is not true for pretty much all cities. You're adding wildlife areas to play with numbers to dilute the population density. Miami metropolitan area's population density is about 388 per km2. Sydney's is 433 per km2.
    That's the whole point if Sydney has an outbreak it is much easier to contain due to as you say ''wildlife areas'' I.E. huge distances between large population hubs. Whereas if Miami municipality has an outbreak it flows to the next municipality, and the next, and the next...(you get my point).

    Again NSW is roughly x4 larger than Florida, yet Florida has nearly x3 the population I.E. roughly 8million v 22million; the point being your municipalities/cities are much closer together, so any virus/disease just spread like wildfire from one municipality to the next in any and all directions. Therefore much harder to contain.
    Last edited by Stario; May 16, 2021 at 12:25 PM.

  16. #2996

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    That's the whole point if Sydney has an outbreak it is much easier to contain due to as you say ''wild life areas'' I.E. huge distances between large population hubs. Where as if Miami municipality has an outbreak it flows to the next municipality, and the next, and the next...(you get my point).
    Again NSW is roughly x4 larger that Florida, yet Florida has nearly x3 the population I.E. roughly 8million v 22million; point being your municipalities/cities are much closer together, so any virus/disease just spread like wildfire from one municipality to the next in any and all directions. Therefore much harder to contain.
    Sigh... If we add the wildlife areas around Miami we'd be also decreasing the population density of the metropolitan area. USA is not Coruscant. Your line of thinking has no basis in reality. Cities being close to each has no relevancy for lockdown measures.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sigh... If we add the wildlife areas around Miami we'd be also decreasing the population density of the metropolitan area. USA is not Coruscant. Your line of thinking has no basis in reality. Cities being close to each has no relevancy for lockdown measures.

    ...Now let's say the virus spills over to Georgia as well, which has a population of roughly 10 million; so that's 22mil + 10 million =32 million people in an area that's roughly half the size of NSW. With so many people in so little geographical space, you can lose control fast.
    AND this is what seems to have happened in the USA; while the outbreak in Melbourne was much easily controlled due to distance to the next high-density population hub I.E. Canberra a whooping 650km away.

    The point being, Australia cannot really be compared to EU or USA, not only are we Isolated from the rest of the world but also we have a huge landmass relative to our small population, these huge distances also separate our major population hubs/cities which gives much more time to react.

    ...AND yes you can add as many ''wildlife areas'' as you'd like; the fact remains the whole of Florida (which includes Miami), can fit into NSW about four times, so no matter how you sugarcoat it, it will always be a much smaller area with nearly triple the population.
    Last edited by Stario; May 16, 2021 at 12:42 PM.

  18. #2998

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    ...Now let's say the virus spills over to Georgia as well, which has a population of roughly 10 million; so that's 22mil + 10 million =32 million people in an area that's roughly half the size of NSW. With so many people in so little geographical space, you can lose control fast.
    AND this is what seems to have happened in the USA; while the outbreak in Melbourne was much easily controlled due to distance to the next high-density population hub I.E. Canberra a whooping 650km away.

    The point being, Australia cannot really be compared to EU or USA, not only are we Isolated from the rest of the world but also we have a huge landmass relative to our small population, these huge distances also separate our major population hubs/cities which gives much more time to react.

    ...AND yes you can add as many ''wildlife areas'' as you'd like; the fact remains the whole of Florida (which includes Miami), can fit into NSW about four times, so no matter how you sugarcoat it, it will always be a much smaller area with nearly triple the population.
    From a coherent and sensible perspective, we can compare Australia to Florida just fine. Australia has dense cities just like Florida does. It's cities are interconnected via highways, airports and trains just like Florida is (though I'm not sure about trains in the case of Florida). None of that, however, matters when a full lock down situation is concerned. Your struggle to make sense of geography has no value for that.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    From a coherent and sensible perspective, we can compare Australia to Florida just fine. Australia has dense cities just like Florida does. It's cities are interconnected via highways, airports and trains just like Florida is (though I'm not sure about trains in the case of Florida). None of that, however, matters when a full lock down situation is concerned. Your struggle to make sense of geography has no value for that.
    This is why lockdowns aren't working in the USA & why the death toll in USA is so high compared to countries like Australia I.E. very difficult to control the virus once in gets into a population that is so dense. When the whole of Australia (roughly similar size of mainland USA excluding Alaska), has nearly the same population as a single state of Florida, you really begin to appreciate the scale of things...

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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    Y Those things are just very relative, subjective, and intertwined with historical perceptions and cultural traits. This whole thing started when someone looked at the map of Europe and thought that Finland is in Eastern Europe...assigning things like east and west to human geography in terms of physical geography usually makes no sense.
    Yes, as you said before, it’s pretty obvious that these kinds of divides have always been motivated by political and cultural history. Some even say that Trump is the defender of the so-called western civilization. There is no such thing as western civilisation | Philosophy -how many times this article has been cited?
    To avoid cherry picking, let's stick with this:by the conventional definition, there are 44 sovereign states or nations in Europe.
    -------
    Locking Down, or Keeping the Economy Open? The International Banker - December,17

    As far as the anti-lockdown position is concerned, many are pointing to Sweden as having adopted the ideal model...“This is simply wrong,” Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, tweeted in September. “Herd immunity is not a strategy or a solution. It is surrender to a preventable virus.”
    As Gabriel Scally, a professor of public health at the University of Bristol, asserted in September, there is simply too much praise being given to the Swedish model.
    Adopting herd immunity in much bigger countries such as the US would mean potentially allowing hundreds of millions of people to contract the illness and many of those to die.

    ...So, what is the best way forward? According to Catherine Hill, a noted French epidemiologist, focusing primarily on the health crisis will ultimately get the economy back on the road to recovery as soon as possible. We need to stop thinking that there is an opposition between economy and public health,” Hill told CNN. “If we solve the coronavirus crisis, then we solve the economic crisis. In China, they controlled the epidemic, and the economy returned. The aim is simple: To get rid of the virus, so that life gets back on track.”
    And according to Robert J. Barro, co-author of the April 2020 paper “The Coronavirus and the Great Influenza Pandemic: Lessons from the ‘Spanish Flu’ for the Coronavirus’s Potential Effects on Mortality and Economic Activity”, government directives such as social distancing and quarantines were crucial in lowering death rates during the Spanish Flu but that conditions worsened as such restrictions were relaxed. As such, Barro asserted that a similar situation could transpire once more during the current situation “with a temptation to ease too fast”.

    Similarly, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) acknowledged that the global recession has been largely driven by people “voluntarily refraining from social interactions as they feared contracting the virus”, and, as such, lifting lockdowns is “unlikely to lead to a decisive and sustained economic boost if infections are still elevated” as voluntary social distancing will likely persist. “The number one priority is getting control of the virus,” Andrew Goodwin, chief UK economist at advisory firm Oxford Economics, told CNN. “And the quickest, [most] aggressive way you can do that is the best thing for the economy.
    The quickest most aggressive way, that's what I have been saying. Some people keep saying that lockdowns and masks are useless and harmful.For those who keep falsely saying that antilockdown Sweden has better data that than most of lockdowns countries in Europe (a few days ago,Sweden ranked 19th worst among 44 European countries, deaths per million) and ask why even do lockdowns, it is now time to call attention to to fact that Sweden continues to have the one of the EU's most serious spread of Covid-19, with 4,198 new infections reported on average each day.

    It is also interesting to note that the worldometer systematically fails to report Swedish’s daily new cases numbers- see here- Worldometer Coronavirus,and it can take many days until all deaths for a particular day are reported in Sweden.
    Around 1 in 3 people have coronavirus without displaying any symptoms, yet they don’t care about asymptomatic testing.In Sweden,only symptomatic adults and children of school age and older get tested COVID-19 testing - The Public Health Agency of Sweden
    Children of preschool age are primarily advised to stay at home if they are ill, without getting tested for COVID-19. The Public Health Agency of Sweden recommends that adults with symptoms of COVID-19 (in Swedish) get tested to see if they have an ongoing infection. The same recommendation applies to children of school age and older, i.e., from about 6 years of age
    It seems to me that the the number of confirmed cases is lower than the number of actual cases, the main reason for that is limited testing. Testing falls short as Sweden battles second pandemic wave.
    Last November, the Health Agency on urged people to limit testing to when they had displayed symptoms for more than 24 hours.
    --------
    Here, the situation remains very stable, the Rt is at 0.92,and as of May 9, Portugal with fewest daily Covid cases in EU
    Right now, for comparison, Portugal is now 41 days behind Sweden in terms of the number of coronavirus cases per 100,000 population, with 25 infections per 100K people reported last 7 days. Sweden has roughly the same population as Portugal, 10,154,031 vs 10,170,786, and 285 infections infections per 100K people reported last 7 days. Sweden has 306 serious/critical cases; Portugal, 71.

    Here and now, for travels from countries with an incidence rate equal to or greater than 500 cases per 100,000 inhabitants in the last 14 days-Sweden, Brazil, India, South Africa and more five countries,only “essential travel is allowed. In addition they must present proof of a negative test to COVID-19 carried out within 72 hours before boarding time, and it is also compulsory to comply with a prophylactic isolation period of 14 days, at home or in a place indicated by the health authorities, after entering mainland Portugal.

    The incidence of UK cases per 100,000 is very low.Coronavirus cases in England's cities and large towns
    So, good news for British turists: Non-essential travels from UK are allowed to enter Portugal in a few hours,as of the 00:00 of 17th of May, but must present proof of a negative test to COVID-19 (RT-PCR), carried out within 72 hours before boarding time. Portugal to allow UK tourists from Monday - BBC News
    2021 Champions League final moved to Portugal - UEFA.com
    as a result of Turkey being placed on UK’s ‘red list’.
    Since the last month, here we are,in the green zone.( Rt and incidence of new cases)



    Please, don’t dare to say that agressive lockdowns and masks are useless and harmful.
    -------

    Btw, Taiwan is now on partial lockdown, imposing two weeks of restrictions. While not ordering a total lockdown, the government is urging people to stay at home as much as possible. The government said masks must be now worn outdoors, urging people to work and study from home.
    Taiwanese empty supermarket shelves as local COVID cases


    Last edited by Ludicus; May 16, 2021 at 07:43 PM.
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