Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[Heathen Hammer]

Polio loves you.

Dunno what it's like where you live. But we literally have to present physical doctor signed record of about 15 vaccinations(maybe more these days) to be admitted to school. That or, well, be immuno compromised.

Apples and oranges.

What an obtuse way to treat how vaccines work. There is no logic in what you're saying. Let's create a baseline. Do you think vaccines some how stop your body from acquiring the virus the vaccine is made against?

You just said that it does not. I'm going with what you said. If vaccine's purpose is to make it easier to treat virus once you have it, then question of whether someone gets one is strictly within the realm of doctor-patient relationship, which is just individuals' private business.

[B. W.]

The Xiden regime is releasi8ng infected illegals into the US and it is being assisted by Catholic charities:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/07/28/...s-whataburger/

This is the regime that's claiming it's doing everything it can to protect its citizens.

[Heathen Hammer]

The Xiden regime is releasi8ng infected illegals into the US and it is being assisted by Catholic charities:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/07/28/...s-whataburger/

This is the regime that's claiming it's doing everything it can to protect its citizens.

Wouldn't be the first time.
Many tend to pretend to forget that early 2020 liberal stance on COVID was that not pretending that it doesn't exist is racist and xenophobic.

[PointOfViewGun]

You just said that it does not. I'm going with what you said. If vaccine's purpose is to make it easier to treat virus once you have it, then question of whether someone gets one is strictly within the realm of doctor-patient relationship, which is just individuals' private business.

That means you're against any and all vaccines? Because a vaccine helps your body combat the virus much easier which in turn makes it much easier for healthcare officials to treat breakout infections if they occur. This results in much less transmission and much less hospitalization with much less casualties. This is true for all vaccines. This is how diseases are eradicated. If you obtusely classify that as a measure that doesn't matter for the public health you're merely displaying faulty knowledge on how vaccines work.

[Heathen Hammer]

That means you're against any and all vaccines? Because a vaccine helps your body combat the virus much easier which in turn makes it much easier for healthcare officials to treat breakout infections if they occur. This results in much less transmission and much less hospitalization with much less casualties. This is true for all vaccines. This is how diseases are eradicated. If you obtusely classify that as a measure that doesn't matter for the public health you're merely displaying faulty knowledge on how vaccines work.

But I'm saying what you said lol; you said vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting a disease, only making it easier to treat. If that's true, then no vaccination mandates/requirements are needed, since vaccination is strictly within doctor-patient relationship and is strictly individual's concern.

[Gaidin]

But I'm saying what you said lol; you said vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting a disease, only making it easier to treat. If that's true, then no vaccination mandates/requirements are needed, since vaccination is strictly within doctor-patient relationship and is strictly individual's concern.

They're extremely needed. You still get the virus. Your body knows how to fight it.

So what happens if we stop the polio vaccine?

Ask FDR.

[Heathen Hammer]

They're extremely needed.

Well, Pointofviewgun just debunked that by pointing out that vaccines don't prevent you from getting virus, only making it easier to treat it.

[Cope]

But I'm saying what you said lol; you said vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting a disease, only making it easier to treat. If that's true, then no vaccination mandates/requirements are needed, since vaccination is strictly within doctor-patient relationship and is strictly individual's concern.

An inoculated person is significantly less likely to contract the disease each time they are exposed to it. For this reason, having a large portion of the population vaccinated significantly slows the spread of the disease. As above, vaccinated persons are also overwhelmingly less likely to experience severe symptoms, hospitalization or death.

However, mandatory vaccination should only be required when absolutely necessary (i.e. for those working with vulnerable groups). Attempts to exclude vaccine sceptics from normal life is wholly unethical, particularly in countries which are approaching herd immunity.

[PointOfViewGun]

But I'm saying what you said lol; you said vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting a disease, only making it easier to treat. If that's true, then no vaccination mandates/requirements are needed, since vaccination is strictly within doctor-patient relationship and is strictly individual's concern.

Oh, you agree with me than. Thank you for saying that vaccination are needed.

[Stario]

However, mandatory vaccination should only be required when absolutely necessary (i.e. for those working with vulnerable groups).

Mandatory vaccines should never be required and are outright illegal. So if any place of employment threatens you with "no vaccine no work" or you lose working hours due to NOT being vaccinated seek legal advice/go straight to a solicitor.

Malette v Shulman (1990)

a. widely accepted globally;

b. "[a] competent adult is entitled to reject a specific treatment of all treatment, or to select an alternative form of treatment, even if the decision may entail risks as serious as death and may appear mistaken in the eyes of the medical profession or of the community...it is the patient who has the final say on whether to undergo the treatment."


This means a competent adult patient has the right to refuse medical treatment for whatever reasons; rational or irrational. A patient's body is his/her own & he/she may refuse or accept treatment I.E. "a right in each person to bodily integrity".


The cease & desist (mandatory vaccination to certain businesses), letters are already in circulation & a class action lawsuits against these draconic lockdowns (here in Australia), began just yesterday; if it succeeds there will be a lot of plebs getting damages refunds/not needing to pay their fines for breaching lockdown directives; it should be concluded in about 3-4 days.

[Gaidin]

The cease & desist (mandatory vaccination to certain businesses), letters are already in circulation & a class action lawsuits against these draconic lockdowns (here in Australia), began just yesterday; if it succeeds there will be a lot of plebs getting refunds/not needing to pay their fines for breaching lockdown directives; it should be concluded in about 3-4 days.

Ironically, most of the discussion is about America, which is mostly at-will employment. Which corporations here are openly discussing requiring vaccinations or multiple tests a week(at the cost of the employee), and if the employee tests positive, the employee goes into quarantine without pay.

I never thought I'd see a situation where at will employment would turn out a positive thing. But eat it.

[Cope]

I never thought I'd see a situation where at will employment would turn out a positive thing. But eat it.

The alternative to "at will employment" is slavery. I can't say I'm surprised to see liberals and leftists celebrating corporate coercion.

[Gaidin]

The alternative to "at will employment" is slavery. I can't say I'm surprised to see liberals and leftists celebrating corporate coercion.

A bit extreme. I guess police officers are slaves. According to you anyway.

[Stario]

I am not American but from wikipedia:

"In United States labor law, at-will employment is an employer's ability to dismiss an employee for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning,^[1] as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g. firing because of the employee's race, religion or sexuality)"

So unless Americans don't believe in informed consent & self-determinisation or are willing to simply throw such concepts away. I would say it would fall under the "illegal" part. So would still seek legal advice if threaten to be dismissed/fired for refusing the C19 vaccine.
But I accept I could be wrong, I've lived in the USA. In fact, the major reason my American wife eventually agreed to stay and settle in Australia is that she realised (when her father got sick), the US health system is third-world compared to Australia's health care system & it seems your labour laws are not much better.

Well in any case then good luck with your jab & at being my science experiment...

[Gaidin]

So unless Americans don't believe in informed consent & self-determinisation or are willing to simply throw such concepts away. I would say it would fall under the "illegal" part. So would still seek legal advice if threaten to be dismissed/fired for refusing the C19 vaccine.
But I accept I could be wrong, I've lived in the USA. In fact, the major reason my American wife eventually agreed to stay and settle in Australia is that she realised (when her father got sick), the US health system is third-world compared to Australia's health care system.

Oh, our healthcare system is absolute crap. Depending on where you live and how much of a profit the company demands they make. I did like the uhh...covid map and where you might learn about who's who though...

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-...s-apply-2021-7

[Stario]

Oh, our healthcare system is absolute crap. Depending on where you live and how much of a profit the company demands they make. I did like the uhh...covid map and where you might learn about who's who though...

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-...s-apply-2021-7

I don't have a problem with wearing masks (been wearing mine actually for the last year-and-a-half & I see the benefit of it not just for CoV-19, but because the flu can also suck).

My problem is mostly with the erosion of civil liberties and our democracy here in Australia- our Dictator Premier just requested help from the army to enforce lockdowns- so by this weekend you will probably hear something in the news about it, and there was something on the news today re: people arrested because they failed to show ID.

Albeit never thought I will ever see this in Australia (but maybe I am just hyper-sensitive especially coming from Communist Czechoslovakia where you would get arrested and thrown in the cellar for a day & maybe get roughed up a bit for not having ID on you if you failed to cough up some bribe money or a bottle of good quality Vodka or Slivovica), for most of the younger generation don't see the problem with the lockdowns & the army being deployed...

But now I digress...It is a bit odd however that CDC mandates vaccinated individuals to wear masks!? But what the heck, masks are no big deal really...

[Gaidin]

But now I digress...It is a bit odd however that CDC mandates vaccinated individuals to wear masks!? But what the heck, masks are no big deal really...

The CDC doesn't publish mandates. It publishes guidance. States and local governments put out mandates and policy based on that. Even corporations and companies will have their own policy based on that.

But either way, why would or should vaccinated individuals want to wear masks? Because they could still get Covid. By the numbers, Pfizer provided a 94% odds of protection against the Alpha variant and provides an 88% odds against the Delta variant. AstraZeneca provided 74% odds against Alpha and provides 67% odds against Delta. Those numbers aren't 100%.

Any new vaccine probably has something in its history like this if you really wanted to look at the books, and even today if you've gotten your shots as a child you can still get a breakthrough case. Either way, this is an area of active research and you're better off with than without and I wouldn't be shocked if any vaccine for COVID starts putting out boosters pretty soon.

Even without what we might call a breakthrough case, as someone with a vaccine, I still probably casually come into contact with COVID as I go through my daily stuff. My body deals with it. When you read the news the cases that have required hospitalizations, all of them, literally do not have vaccinations. The break through cases, now, are something not requiring hospitalization, with mild symptoms, though they did have some long haul things to deal with still some months later(commonly loss of smell, cough, fatigue, weakness, difficulty breathing, or muscle pain).

So. That in mind. Let's ask the question again without politics in mind. Why would vaccinated people want to wear masks?

[Heathen Hammer]

An inoculated person is significantly less likely to contract the disease each time they are exposed to it. For this reason, having a large portion of the population vaccinated significantly slows the spread of the disease. As above, vaccinated persons are also overwhelmingly less likely to experience severe symptoms, hospitalization or death.

However, mandatory vaccination should only be required when absolutely necessary (i.e. for those working with vulnerable groups). Attempts to exclude vaccine sceptics from normal life is wholly unethical, particularly in countries which are approaching herd immunity.

That's a pretty good point. I can see why vaccine should only be necessary when it comes to dealing with vulnerable groups. However blanket mandates seem to do more harm then good, especially in the light of vaccine being rather experimental as they never had the time to test it properly. I guess the biggest problem is Big Pharma which is probably making wads of cash off the whole thing while cutting corners wherever possible.

[Infidel144]

"Show us the Data" via the WaPo:

"CDC reversal on indoor masking prompts experts to ask, ‘Where’s the data?’

New recommendations from federal health officials this week on when vaccinated Americans should don face masks came with a startling bolt of news: People who have had their shots and become infected with the delta variant of the coronavirus can harbor large amounts of virus just like unvaccinated people. That means they could become spreaders of the disease and should return to wearing masks indoors in certain situations, including when vulnerable people are present.

But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did not publish the new research. In the text of the updated masking guidance, the agency merely cited “CDC COVID-19 Response Team, unpublished data, 2021.”

Some outside scientists have their own message: Show us the data.

“They’re making a claim that people with delta who are vaccinated and unvaccinated have similar levels of viral load, but nobody knows what that means,” said Gregg Gonsalves, an associate professor at the Yale School of Public Health. “It’s meaningless unless we see the data.""

continues:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...82d_story.html

[Ludicus]

I don't have a problem with wearing masks (been wearing mine actually for the last year-and-a-half & I see the benefit of it not just for CoV-19, but because the flu can also suck).

You said the exact opposite a few months ago.For example you said that masks don't let you breathe well through the nose, that they force you to breathe through the mouth, and that they alter the oxygen concentration in the blood.

Mandatory vaccines should never be required and are outright illegal

Since many, many years ago, some countries require, for example, yellow fever and meningitis vaccinations.They are mandated by governments to protect their citizens.It's a matter of public health. List of countries, territories and areas Vaccination
The same applies to SARS-Cov 2 Where Can You Travel if You're Vaccinated? | Travel | US News
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Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination - CDC
A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others.
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Recently published.- 22 July.
Prevention and Attenuation of Covid-19 with the BNT162b2 ...

If further data confirm that the administration of mRNA vaccines reduces the number of viral RNA particles and the duration of viral RNA detection, thereby blunting the infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, then the overall results support that mRNA vaccines not only are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection but also may mitigate the effects of breakthrough infections — a finding that is especially important to essential and frontline workers, given their potential to transmit the virus through frequent close contact with patients, coworkers, and the public.

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I don't believe that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry about the same viral load as those who are unvaccinated, doesn't make sense.Anyway, masks are here to stay...

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My problem is mostly with the erosion of civil liberties and our democracy here in Australia.

Thinking about it, about 8 months ago, the "corrupt" Government of New South Wales (Australia) was bought by the C.C.P.
-Professor Edward Holmes named NSW Scientist of the Year

For his troubles, Professor Holmes will be awarded $60,000 from the NSW government on Tuesday night, after not a single day off in the past nine months, and a steady battering of online harassment and death threats from conspiracy theorists.
His guess carries more weight than most, being among the world-leading experts in the genetics, evolution and origin of many viruses including hepatitis C, HIC, Influenza, West Nile, Dengue, Zika and Ebola.