Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #4261
    Senator
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,121

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    @anteus: Take Germany out of this list. Here we have a coalition of Rightwings and dumpass esoteric "leftwing" people, who form a violent mob on the streets. Mostly in eastern Germany thought. There are critics to the Anti-Covid-Laws and Vaccines in all parties, but most are in the political fringes. Must be something special in Germany, some people claim it has to do with our strange relationship with Esoteric and Homöpathie and a lack of Scientific Knowledge in the population.

    I´m waiting for the Vaccines for little children (younger than 5 years) being rolled out, so I can vax my daughter. With this done, my Family and friends will be relative safe.

    @DarkKnight & Coughdrop: Nothing to add; I feel your pain.

  2. #4262
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Deep within the dark german forest
    Posts
    8,389

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Must be something special in Germany, some people claim it has to do with our strange relationship with Esoteric and Homöpathie and a lack of Scientific Knowledge in the population.
    You big pharma slave. How can you claim that 1 drop of homoepathic essence in 1000 liter waters don't work.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  3. #4263

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Are you sure? In a vast majority of developed countries, a vast majority of eligible adults are vaccinated against Covid. This has happened because hesitancy hasn't become an identity signal of the followers one of the major political parties. It has remained fringe.
    Those developed countries where the rate is lower are also the countries which have allowed their political discourse to reach that point of contempt, and where vaccine hesitancy has become intermingled with the identity signals of the followers of a particular major political party.
    As I said, there are always fringe elements who likely find joy in being on the fringe. You'll never convince them of anything. But in a place like the US where vaccine hesitancy is more widespread than other developed countries, the only way to move that dial is to separate it from that package of identity markers, and the only way to do that, is to have genuine conversations - either at the national level (amongst politicians) or the local level (amongst peers).
    I'll take that accusation of naivety thanks. Usually that means I'm pushing the right buttons.
    Very few countries passed the 80% threshold. Vast majority usually means 90% which is covered by even less, developed or not developed. Even Germany sits below 75%. The EU average sits at 74%. The rest doesn't make up a fringe portion but a sizeable minority that sways a lot of power. What makes your take naive is the fact that you're not really offering a solution. You're merely disregarding the elephant in the room as a tiny fly when its not.
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #4264
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cool and normal
    Posts
    5,419

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Very few countries passed the 80% threshold. Vast majority usually means 90% which is covered by even less, developed or not developed. Even Germany sits below 75%. The EU average sits at 74%. The rest doesn't make up a fringe portion but a sizeable minority that sways a lot of power. What makes your take naive is the fact that you're not really offering a solution. You're merely disregarding the elephant in the room as a tiny fly when its not.
    Of course I'm not offering a solution. I'm offering a framework for finding a solution. What you're offering is a justification of embedded polarisation and status quo. And backing it up with a subjective appraisal? Not exactly progressive now is it?

    Again... the accusation of naivety from someone seemingly justifying treating people with contempt suggests that I am on the right track.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  5. #4265
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    TheDarkKnight is right as usual.

    Anti-vaxers are the reason we are still dealing with Covid. It’s mutating BECAUSE they would rather listen to Russian propaganda mouthpieces than actual experts trying to save their lives. If we’d gotten the vaccination rate high enough to reach herd immunity we wouldn’t be dealing with mutations and life would be back to normal.

    It cannot be stressed enough. All of this we are still dealing with? It’s because of THEM. And they have the audacity to complain about the world THEY created that we all have to live in.
    Blaming the non-vaccinated people is .
    We are about 7.9 billion people on this planet. Remove the young kids (below 5 or 6 years old) and very isolated populations (some tribes in the middle of nowhere) for which Covid is not a immediate issue/danger. They are may be 15 to 20% of that population. That means there are still roughly 6.3 billions of people that should be vaccinated in theory and according to our governments.
    Beside, the Covid has a high mutagenic potential. Just see how many strains we already have in 2 years time.
    All scientist agree that after 3 months, the antibodies drop drastically, not to mention the relative efficiency of the vaccines, I mean, it doesn't prevent to be infected or to spread the virus.
    Now, explain to me how you will vaccinate 6.3 billions of people in less than a month in order to avoid any birth of a new strain?
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  6. #4266

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Of course I'm not offering a solution. I'm offering a framework for finding a solution. What you're offering is a justification of embedded polarisation and status quo. And backing it up with a subjective appraisal? Not exactly progressive now is it?
    Again... the accusation of naivety from someone seemingly justifying treating people with contempt suggests that I am on the right track.
    Does you making stuff up about what I said suggests that I am on the right track as well? Nowhere did I justify anything. I didn't even comment on it. You're neither offering a solution nor a framework for finding a solution. We're highlighting the elephant in the room. Your entire premise is dependent on ignoring that elephant.
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #4267
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,294

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Beside, the Covid has a high mutagenic potential. Just see how many strains we already have in 2 years time.
    Fun fact: actually it doesn't. Its mutation rate is significantly slower than that of common viruses because its protein structure is unusually stable. It's just so over the top virulent that it can increase its numbers to a pandemic, which in turn causes the likelihood of dangerous mutations to occur somewhere in the world despite of it's low innate mutation frequency.

  8. #4268
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Fun fact: actually it doesn't. Its mutation rate is significantly slower than that of common viruses because its protein structure is unusually stable. It's just so over the top virulent that it can increase its numbers to a pandemic, which in turn causes the likelihood of dangerous mutations to occur somewhere in the world despite of it's low innate mutation frequency.
    Fun fact: its protein structure as you said is just what covers and protect the virus RNA. That's also what antibodies use to recognize and neutralize viruses (to stay simple). Hence the issue with Omicron as its protein structure has evolved quite significantly.
    But actually, what makes a virus dangerous or not is its RNA. Since that virus appeared in China, we had Beta, Delta, Omicron recorded as the most infectious one, not to mention the others which didn't last for long. That's already and at least 4 major strains in 2 years, meaning a bigger mutagenic potential than the influenza one.
    So, I think you're wrong when saying that the covid 19 doesn't mutate that much. Just an example:

    Professor Laurence Hurst, of the Milner Centre for Evolution at the University of Bath, said:
    “Our findings mean that if a patient suffers Covid19 for more than a few weeks, the virus could evolve which could potentially lead to new variants.
    https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements...ously-thought/

    And that article is quite old. Try to imagine the same about Omicron which is more infectious.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; January 27, 2022 at 11:23 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #4269
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,294

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Fun fact: its protein structure as you said is just what covers and protect the virus RNA. That's also what antibodies use to recognize and neutralize viruses (to stay simple). Hence the issue with Omicron as its protein structure has evolved quite significantly.
    But actually, what makes a virus dangerous or not is its RNA. Since that virus appeared in China, we had Beta, Delta, Omicron recorded as the most infectious one, not to mention the others which didn't last for long. That's already and at least 4 major strains in 2 years, meaning a bigger mutagenic potential than the influenza one.
    So, I think you're wrong when saying that the covid 19 doesn't mutate that much. Just an example:


    https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements...ously-thought/

    And that article is quite old. Try to imagine the same about Omicron which is more infectious.
    I'm not making any up. I'm not a virologist, biologist or medical doctor. I see it as important to keep this thread updated and to spread relevant information and to keep people's morale up, not to be right about crap.

    So what i know is that the virus is so extremely infectious, that it does not matter whether its mutation rate is relatively high or low compared to other "flue-like" viruses. It is simply the case that it spreads over so many human populations so darn quickly, that it will mutate to more dangerous versions of itself, simply because there are so many hosts (humans). How is that to be misunderstood?

  10. #4270
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    13,057

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    The mutation rate of SARS-CoV-2 ranges from 1.12 × 10-3 to 6.25 × 10-3, while seasonal influenza virus has a lower evolutionary rate (0.60-2.00 × 10-6).Furthermore, even omicron is more deadly than the flu.In the case of SARS-CoV-2 (all variants) the ACE2 receptor is entirely is present throughout the body, not just the lungs. Covid-19 can primarily attack the lungs,but ACE2 receptors are everywhere.It is a multi-systemic disease.. Myocarditis in asymptomatic patients can occur, and for some time ( months, or more) the patient is totally unaware of the damage, until he develops a symptomatic myocarditis , with all its consequences. It is a neurotropic coronavirus. Covid brain "fog" is a true neurological condition, 43% of the patients reported cognitive symptoms starting 1 or more months after the first COVID symptom.A colleague of mine, "fully" recovered from the acute infection, is now affected by this condition.According to some statistics, one in ten patients are not fully recovered after the first year.
    --
    Here, right now, about 40% of the patients admitted to the Covid wards are not hospitalized because of Covid. We will let the virus circulate more or let freely when the entire population is totally vaccinated or infected. (March or Abril). Life must goes on.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 27, 2022 at 12:35 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #4271
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,294

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    But there simply is no correlation of viruses becoming more infectious and therefore less dangerous. It appears to be by pure chance that it has been so far. And it wasn't even. Delta was both, more infectious and more dangerous. If you know better, please do tell! If you really do know better, then please explain how it is, that viruses (which are not even life forms) appear to be competing over their hosts.

    edit: the dude i answered to withdrew his comment. This is not directed at you, Ludicus.
    Last edited by swabian; January 27, 2022 at 12:39 PM.

  12. #4272
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I'm not making any up. I'm not a virologist, biologist or medical doctor. I see it as important to keep this thread updated and to spread relevant information and to keep people's morale up, not to be right about crap.
    What I'm writting is not crap. That's called biology. Anybody able to use internet can check that.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    So what i know is that the virus is so extremely infectious, that it does not matter whether its mutation rate is relatively high or low compared to other "flue-like" viruses. It is simply the case that it spreads over so many human populations so darn quickly, that it will mutate to more dangerous versions of itself, simply because there are so many hosts (humans). How is that to be misunderstood?
    If Omicron takes over the other strains such as Delta, then we can reasonably be optimistic because if even more infectious, it is also less dangerous. That means that it evolves in the right direction. And a virus that becoming less and less dangerous never become more dangerous again.
    But if both strains, Delta and Omicron live together, then a more dangerous strain can appear from Delta. Only futur will tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    But there simply is no correlation of viruses becoming more infectious and therefore less dangerous. It appears to be by pure chance that it has been so far. And it wasn't even. Delta was both, more infectious and more dangerous. If you know better, please do tell! If you really do know better, then please explain how it is, that viruses (which are not even life forms) appear to be competing over their hosts.

    edit: the dude i answered to withdrew his comment. This is not directed at you, Ludicus.
    On top of my above comment, remember the corona virus OC-43 (also call the Russian flu). Between 1889 and 1894, it spreads around the world, causing several hundred thousand dead. Nowadays, that virus still exists but if you catch it, you won't get more that a simple cold.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; January 27, 2022 at 12:53 PM. Reason: link added for Russian flu
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  13. #4273
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    13,057

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    But there simply is no correlation of viruses becoming more infectious and therefore less dangerous...This is not directed at you, Ludicus.
    In fact there is a correlation, the H1NI of the Spanish flu is an example, but in the end you are right, we can't generalize. We simple don't know. *“Knock on wood*.Lets hope the omicron will soon hit a ceiling, and more dangerous variants will struggle to outcompete it.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 27, 2022 at 01:33 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  14. #4274
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
    Moderator Emeritus Content Emeritus Administrator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The good (not South) part of the USA
    Posts
    11,632
    Blog Entries
    12

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Of course I'm not offering a solution. I'm offering a framework for finding a solution. What you're offering is a justification of embedded polarisation and status quo. And backing it up with a subjective appraisal? Not exactly progressive now is it?

    Again... the accusation of naivety from someone seemingly justifying treating people with contempt suggests that I am on the right track.
    You seemed to have sidestepped me but I'm feeling feisty.

    How do you reach out and have a dialogue with those that not only continue to deny the realities of the pandemic but are also threatening hospital workers because they believe Antifa communist doctors are killing covid patients? Because it is happening. And while I don't expect those addled idiots to actually do anything I have been wrong before. We have seen what lengths they are willing to go to when they are throwing their tantrums and not getting their way.

    These people are being radicalized by the lies they believe, the lies we don't harshly challenge them on. How long until that radicalization turns violent? I don't particularly fancy wondering if the neighbor down the street who is still flying his pathetic little Trump train flag over his American flag is going to blow up the local hospital because he believes the vaccine clinics are giving people 5G, to be honest.
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  15. #4275

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I can confirm. I work in a hospital and have been threatened, with one person on another site threatening to find out where I live and cut my head off. Administration recently had us go over the plan for dealing with a mass shooter because we've had so many threats and violent anti-vaxers thinking we're killing their family members.

  16. #4276
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cool and normal
    Posts
    5,419

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
    You seemed to have sidestepped me but I'm feeling feisty.

    How do you reach out and have a dialogue with those that not only continue to deny the realities of the pandemic but are also threatening hospital workers because they believe Antifa communist doctors are killing covid patients? Because it is happening. And while I don't expect those addled idiots to actually do anything I have been wrong before. We have seen what lengths they are willing to go to when they are throwing their tantrums and not getting their way.

    These people are being radicalized by the lies they believe, the lies we don't harshly challenge them on. How long until that radicalization turns violent? I don't particularly fancy wondering if the neighbor down the street who is still flying his pathetic little Trump train flag over his American flag is going to blow up the local hospital because he believes the vaccine clinics are giving people 5G, to be honest.
    TBH, I didn't see the need to continue because we were repeating ourselves. I get it. As per POV, you're essentially justifying treating people with contempt. You may see it as in response to their actions, but they probably see it in response to the actions of you, or people you support. And around it goes *shrug*
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  17. #4277
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    13,057

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Mandatory face masks were lifted in England In Closed Spaces
    Like here, nearly half Covid positive patients were hospitalized for other reasons.But...in closed spaces, really? should we treat Covid as influenza? I think it's too soon for that. Let's review the numbers in the next week.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  18. #4278

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    With so many anti-vaxers leaning on the Bible in their lunacy, it brought Proverbs 1:20-33 to my mind:

    Wisdom cries aloud in the street,
    in the markets she raises her voice;
    21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
    at the entrance of the city gates she speaks:
    22 “How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple?
    How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing
    and fools hate knowledge?
    23 If you turn at my reproof,
    behold, I will pour out my spirit to you;
    I will make my words known to you.
    24 Because I have called and you refused to listen,
    have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
    25 because you have ignored all my counsel
    and would have none of my reproof,
    26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
    I will mock when terror strikes you,
    27 when terror strikes you like a storm
    and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
    when distress and anguish come upon you.
    28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
    they will seek me diligently but will not find me.
    29 Because they hated knowledge
    and did not choose the fear of the Lord,
    30 would have none of my counsel
    and despised all my reproof,
    31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way,
    and have their fill of their own devices.
    32 For the simple are killed by their turning away,
    and the complacency of fools destroys them;
    33 but whoever listens to me will dwell secure
    and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.”

  19. #4279
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    ^^ On the other hand, you must admit that the communication of our governments on that topic have been quite poorly carried out. That doesn't help to prevent people to believe in conspiracy theories and other .
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  20. #4280

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his family have left their home in Ottawa for a secret location, the CBC reports, amid security concerns as thousands pour into the Canadian capital on Saturday in trucker convoys to protest vaccine mandates.

    Mr Trudeau has condemned the growing anti-mandate movement in the country as contrary to public health and Canadian values of kindness.

    As protests began on Saturday, the Parliamentary Protective Service estimated up to 10,000 people may attend the events this weekend, and the Ottawa Police Service has received reinforcements from the Toronto, London, York, and Durham regions, plus the Ontario Provincial Police.

    Truckers have been travelling in a convoy for days to protest newly enacted rules requiring proof of vaccination for drivers heading between Canada and the US, a movement that has grown to include sweeping protests against pandemic restrictions overall.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2003458.html
    Truckers in the United States are getting ready to follow the lead of their Canadian counterparts and form a convoy that will travel from California to Washington D.C.

    This after 50,000 Canadian truck drivers formed a 45-mile convoy to Ottawa this week to protest the government’s vaccine mandate. The same mandate issued by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security who is requiring that non-U.S. essential workers such as truck drivers be fully vaccinated against COVID. If they are not fully vaccinated, they will not be allowed to cross land borders, from Canada or Mexico.

    https://www.kark.com/news/national-n...ccine-mandate/
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    We may be witnessing the apex of human civilization. It is as the songs foretold:



    June 6 in DC?
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •