Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #3161

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    First, an overwhelming majority of Israelis have not received both doses of the vaccine (its ~57%); second, the Pfizer efficacy rate refers to protection against "severe C19"; third, despite the spike in case numbers there has been no correlative rise in the number of deaths, thus proving the second point correct.
    Last edited by Cope; July 04, 2021 at 09:13 AM.



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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    First, an overwhelming majority of Israelis have not received both doses of the vaccine (its ~57%); .
    Assuming the Israeli citizens were socially responsible to take their second dose after the 4 week window (it's been 2 months since then), that still doesn't explain the sharp rise in cases comparable to the UK.

    second, the Pfizer efficacy rate refers to protection against "severe C19"; third, despite the spike in cases numbers there has been no correlative rise in the number of deaths, thus proving the second point correct
    Your Pfizer mRNA vaccines are notably ineffective against the new strain of Delta despite propaganda otherwise, let me show you the sort of doublespeak that the US media love to parrot on about:
    While still highly effective against the delta variant, the study showed the vaccine was less effective against it and certain other variants than against the original strain of the virus.
    ...

    The antibody response against the delta variant was about two times weaker than against the ancestral strain of the virus.
    Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...-delta-variant
    (Moderna and Pfizer use the same mRNA technology)

    How the hell can something be called "highly effective" and then demonstrate "two times weaker than against the ancestral strain of the virus"?

    Once again, it amuses me when so called freedom loving americans believe everything the government tells them without looking at the data, but it's less funny when we're seeing vaccinated individuals passing the virus onto other vaccinated individuals. That shouldn't be happening, and it should definitely not be happening with "over 80-90% efficacy" Pfizer :

    This week, at least 75 high school pupils were confirmed to have contracted the virus at a Tel Aviv end-of-year party, after a student was infected by a vaccinated relative. That relative contracted the virus from another vaccinated individual who had recently returned from London, according to Channel 13 news.
    Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/offici...riant-spreads/

    It is absolutely infuriating when new mutations and variants come about because of stupid like governments trying to politicise the virus and failing to properly protect their ppl. I will grant the Israelis have been more socially responsible when it comes to vaccinations but other governments...

  3. #3163
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Didn't you receive the Pfizer vaccine Exarch?
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Didn't you receive the Pfizer vaccine Exarch?
    AstraZeneca; i'm a healthcare worker and i'd already had the first dose before the government came out and said only Pfizer should be given to under 50s.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...-delta-variant
    (Moderna and Pfizer use the same mRNA technology)

    How the hell can something be called "highly effective" and then demonstrate "two times weaker than against the ancestral strain of the virus"?

    Once again, it amuses me when so called freedom loving americans believe everything the government tells them without looking at the data, but it's less funny when we're seeing vaccinated individuals passing the virus onto other vaccinated individuals. That shouldn't be happening, and it should definitely not be happening with "over 80-90% efficacy" Pfizer :
    Because you did not read the actual bushed note did you? In any case the media in general is do a poor job of talking about 'effectiveness'. Its not just the front line number a all the factors severity of illness after, risk of death and weather you are spreader. Taken altogether Pfizer and Modern remain remarkably effective in aggregate.
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    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #3166

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Context:



    Based on preliminary data from Israel, the Pfizer vaccine appears to only be somewhere between 60 to 80% effective at preventing infection by the Delta variant, but seems to remain ~96% effective at preventing serious cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Pretty sure Exarch is not interested in context.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #3168
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Thompson MG, Burgess JL, Naleway AL, et al. Prevention and Attenuation of Covid-19 with the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 Vaccines. NEJM June 30, 2021. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...=featured_home
    This prospective cohort study involving 3975 health care personnel, first responders, and other essential and frontline workers shows that mRNA vaccines attenuated the viral RNA load, risk of febrile symptoms, and duration of illness among those who had breakthrough infection despite vaccination.

    -----
    Two doses of AstraZeneca's vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalizations among those infected with the Delta variant. mRNA vaccines are 94% effective at preventing hospitalizations from the Delta vaccine after just one dose - and 96% effective after two.
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    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    General question: I was thinking, in theory, the delta variant should mutate at some point into a harmless version that keeps delta's ability to suppress other virus strains, shouldn't it? Actually some mutation of simple flu could help to suppress Sears-Cov-2 strains, right?

    edit: i was gonna ask furthermore if it could be an idea to bring about the inevitable artificially (i will probably forget it so i ask right now): create a harmless flu virus with suppressive properties that keeps delta and its offspring from entering our cells - also create a vaccine against said artificial virus at the same time of course. That an idea or what? Yeah it might mutate into something more dangerous, but that's not more likely if nature takes its course, or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    AstraZeneca; i'm a healthcare worker and i'd already had the first dose before the government came out and said only Pfizer should be given to under 50s.
    Biontech is the only vaccine so far that is approved for children above 12 in the EU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    -----
    Two doses of AstraZeneca's vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalizations among those infected with the Delta variant. mRNA vaccines are 94% effective at preventing hospitalizations from the Delta vaccine after just one dose - and 96% effective after two.
    Yeah, I've read similar numbers in German newspapers. But AZ apparently requires two doses to prevent hospitalizations with a 92% rate. Biontech, J&J (and I think Moderna as well) already provide reliable protection against heavy c19 symptoms with only one dose.
    Last edited by swabian; July 04, 2021 at 10:07 AM.

  10. #3170
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Great outcome, I look forward to getting my second dose of Astra soon.

    Even the weaker vaccines like the backward Sinovac and the other one have been some help.

    While Astra works well, it looks like the mRNA vaccines have been a big hit. We are finally getting a dedicated lab here in Victoria, a long overdue investment in plague mitigation.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Great outcome, I look forward to getting my second dose of Astra soon.

    Even the weaker vaccines like the backward Sinovac and the other one have been some help.
    .
    See, this is the attitude that results in needless white anglo deaths; please explain how atoms in a Chinese vaccine work differently to atoms made in a pure white aryan vaccines?

    Not to mention China is now the only source of vaccines and aid for the rest of the world whilst the US and the Five Eyes hoard all the vaccines for themselves and their white allies.

  12. #3172

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    See, this is the attitude that results in needless white anglo deaths; please explain how atoms in a Chinese vaccine work differently to atoms made in a pure white aryan vaccines?

    Not to mention China is now the only source of vaccines and aid for the rest of the world whilst the US and the Five Eyes hoard all the vaccines for themselves and their white allies.
    Same way atoms of sodium cause nasty burns and chlorine is deadly when airborne gas, but together form relatively harmless table salt.

    But in truth, Chinese vaccines are different from most of those coming from the west. Chinese vaccines that are exported are simple inactivated virus vaccines. That's old, proven technology, but doesn't work well against fast mutating viruses. Like this. Truly an embodiment of "made in China", they are fast and cheap to deploy...but less reliable and won't be effective for long.

    Those coming from the west are mostly mRNA or vector based vaccines. Those are new technologies that promise more reliable, lasting protection.

    Next time, try to learn a bit about what you're talking about before parroting the phrases given to you from China.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    See, this is the attitude that results in needless white anglo deaths; please explain how atoms in a Chinese vaccine work differently to atoms made in a pure white aryan vaccines?
    Method of action is different.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Same way atoms of sodium cause nasty burns and chlorine is deadly when airborne gas, but together form relatively harmless table salt.

    But in truth, Chinese vaccines are different from most of those coming from the west. Chinese vaccines that are exported are simple inactivated virus vaccines. That's old, proven technology, but doesn't work well against fast mutating viruses. Like this. Truly an embodiment of "made in China", they are fast and cheap to deploy...but less reliable and won't be effective for long.

    Those coming from the west are mostly mRNA or vector based vaccines. Those are new technologies that promise more reliable, lasting protection.

    Next time, try to learn a bit about what you're talking about before parroting the phrases given to you from China.
    These figures are in line with ministry data that show that many of the new cases are among people who have been vaccinated, while the number of serious cases is rising much more slowly, Ynet said. Last Friday, 55% of the newly infected had been vaccinated, the website said. As of July 4, there were 35 serious cases of coronavirus in Israel, compared with 21 on June 19.

    Source: https://fortune.com/2021/07/05/israe...delta-variant/

    lol Believe whatever you want pal, dead Israelis and Anglos are the least of my concerns, but it does make sense why Pfizer demanded to not be held accountable for any side effects or adverse reactions or inadequate protection...

    What does concern me is why the USG and the Five Eyes are threatening scientists and doctors who follow the science and refuse to kowtow to their QAnon conspiracy theory:

    Exclusive: Western scientists face government probe, death threats for opposing COVID-19 lab-leak theory: source
    Source: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1227825.shtml

    Why would a free and democratic country need to threaten scientists and doctors with death if they disagree with their QAnon conspiracy theory?
    Last edited by Exarch; July 06, 2021 at 01:58 AM.

  15. #3175

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Source: https://fortune.com/2021/07/05/israe...delta-variant/

    lol Believe whatever you want pal, dead Israelis and Anglos are the least of my concerns, but it does make sense why Pfizer demanded to not be held accountable for any side effects or adverse reactions or inadequate protection...

    What does concern me is why the USG and the Five Eyes are threatening scientists and doctors who follow the science and refuse to kowtow to their QAnon conspiracy theory:


    Source: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1227825.shtml

    Why would a free and democratic country need to threaten scientists and doctors with death if they disagree with their QAnon conspiracy theory?
    Some dropoff in preventing infection was expected, but these vaccines remain effective in preventing serious cases. This is obvious if you look at Great Britain, for example, where fatality rate dropped in recent months even though infection rate went up, or even at Israel. Your own quote says that the number of serious cases is rising slower than infections.

    And how do Chinese vaccines fare? Let's have a look at, say, Seychelles.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-..._in_Seychelles
    A small country, with nearly 2/3 of population fully vaccinated by Sinopharm, out of main focus any major power...so the data is somewhat believable. It saw a major spike in last two months, with fatality rate unchanged-and some of the fatalities were among fully vaccinated.

    It doesn't seem like the vaccinations are doing much good there.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Some dropoff in preventing infection was expected, but these vaccines remain effective in preventing serious cases. This is obvious if you look at Great Britain, for example, where fatality rate dropped in recent months even though infection rate went up, or even at Israel. Your own quote says that the number of serious cases is rising slower than infections.

    And how do Chinese vaccines fare? Let's have a look at, say, Seychelles.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-..._in_Seychelles
    A small country, with nearly 2/3 of population fully vaccinated by Sinopharm, out of main focus any major power...so the data is somewhat believable. It saw a major spike in last two months, with fatality rate unchanged-and some of the fatalities were among fully vaccinated.

    It doesn't seem like the vaccinations are doing much good there.

    why, yes let's have a look at the Seychelles where 5 of 6 fatalities took white Anglo AstraZeneca; the same Seychelles where Sinopharm only made up 57% of the total vaccines there, and where the population is only 60% vaccinated.



    You still haven't answered my elementary question: how is Indian variant COVID rising as quickly as it is in Israel where the majority of vaccinated took Pfizer? Stated efficacy of 92-96% should not be producing results like "55% of the new covid cases were already vaccinated".
    Small wonder Israel and Pfizer had to revise down the truth of just how effective Pfizer really is when real world action demonstrates it behaves similarly to traditional vaccines with only marginal improvements.

    case example in Uruguay which found Sinovac (another Chinese vaccine, similar to Sinopharm) to be comparable in efficacy to Pfizer where it was 66% effective against Gamma strain COVID in comparison to Pfizer's 78%
    Source: https://www.gub.uy/ministerio-salud-...y-8-junio-2021

    The fact that you believe what letters and branding on a bottle have on the efficacy of a vaccine shows just how anti science the english speaking west has become; the fact that the USG is terrorising and threatening scientists who refuse to toe the lab leak conspiracy theory shows just how far the Anglos have fallen.

    Here's an idea, leave the science to actual scientists and doctors. In fact, the reason why we're in such a state is because idiots think they know better than health professionals; we wouldn't even have an Indian Delta ing strain if idiots listened to the health advice and stayed locked down for two bloody weeks.

    But what i really want to know is why the Anglo United States refuses to allow the WHO to investigate its bioweapons facilities like Fort Detrick...?

  17. #3177

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post

    why, yes let's have a look at the Seychelles where 5 of 6 fatalities took white Anglo AstraZeneca; the same Seychelles where Sinopharm only made up 57% of the total vaccines there, and where the population is only 60% vaccinated.



    You still haven't answered my elementary question: how is Indian variant COVID rising as quickly as it is in Israel where the majority of vaccinated took Pfizer? Stated efficacy of 92-96% should not be producing results like "55% of the new covid cases were already vaccinated".
    Small wonder Israel and Pfizer had to revise down the truth of just how effective Pfizer really is when real world action demonstrates it behaves similarly to traditional vaccines with only marginal improvements.

    case example in Uruguay which found Sinovac (another Chinese vaccine, similar to Sinopharm) to be comparable in efficacy to Pfizer where it was 66% effective against Gamma strain COVID in comparison to Pfizer's 78%
    Source: https://www.gub.uy/ministerio-salud-...y-8-junio-2021

    The fact that you believe what letters and branding on a bottle have on the efficacy of a vaccine shows just how anti science the english speaking west has become; the fact that the USG is terrorising and threatening scientists who refuse to toe the lab leak conspiracy theory shows just how far the Anglos have fallen.

    Here's an idea, leave the science to actual scientists and doctors. In fact, the reason why we're in such a state is because idiots think they know better than health professionals; we wouldn't even have an Indian Delta ing strain if idiots listened to the health advice and stayed locked down for two bloody weeks.

    But what i really want to know is why the Anglo United States refuses to allow the WHO to investigate its bioweapons facilities like Fort Detrick...?
    I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from-your image comes from some obscure source and refuses to show in my browser. They're off anyway, around 70% of population got both shots by the end of June.

    What really is anti-science is believing that 12 percentage points difference in efficacy is comparable, and that different vaccines, based on different principles and working differently are the same, despite the fact that you even posted evidence that they aren't, because the efficacy difference is quite significant, and refusing to understand difference between infection prevention and protection from serious symptoms.

  18. #3178
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Exarch is only here for the laughs.


    In other news...

    One side effect of self the isolating of countries (As per Taiwan, Australia, China, New Zealand, The Pacific), seems to be that viruses that are often commonly circulating as a part of the standard range of seasonal colds and flus, have stopped circulating. This has been both a positive and a negative. It has led to historically and dramatically low influenza rates in Australia and New Zealand, but it has also led in some cases to them bursting back into populations that haven't seen them for a couple of years in a slightly more aggressive way. For example, when New Zealand reopened it's border to Australia, it saw a surge in cases of RSV which like the regular seasonal flu, has been almost completely absent for two winters - while Australia had seen a number of regular cold associated viruses (including RSV) continue to circulate.

    I imagine that as countries like Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, China etc start to reopen their borders from later this year, we'll end up seeing localised outbreaks of a number of viruses which have had time and space to do their seasonal evolution in isolated populations. This will occur both in the isolating countries, and those they're isolated from. With that in mind... it might be good to make sure you Euro-mericans top up your flu vaccines this autumn - because the first tourist flights from the isolated world will probably be bringing more than just their cameras...
    Last edited by antaeus; July 06, 2021 at 08:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Exarch is only here for the laughs.

    .
    I would laugh if only lives weren't at stake :



    The above just encapsulates why america is failing against COVID and will fail when indian strain covid aka Delta strain starts americas second wave.

    Secondly and more amusingly for the mass of infected americans who survived long covid and the anti-vaxxer Americans:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1879578.html

    Now we can make fun of anglo americans, COVID and erectile dysfunction but i don't think it's funny especially since this is the leading cause of american Incels shooting up schools.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    COVID is getting and it's gonna get more in the weeks to come as Delta and now Lambda strains are running havoc across the world.

    Btw anyone notice that the individuals who defy lockdown orders and refuse to wear masks or socially distance tend to come from the boomer demographic?

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