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Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #1741

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Even if the Chicoms didn't create the rona flu for malicious purposes, they still sat on data for months that would have saved lives. Their hands are hardly clean. Saying so isn't racist.

  2. #1742
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Even if the Chicoms didn't create the rona flu for malicious purposes, they still sat on data for months that would have saved lives. Their hands are hardly clean. Saying so isn't racist.
    Actually your saying so is racist when it's based on racist yellow peril propaganda and QAnon talking points. What 'data' did the chinese government 'sit on for months'? This is a novel coronavirus and yet the Chinese managed to chart the genome within weeks of discovering it as a novel coronavirus. Your government wanted to go with the herd immunity approach only being talked down when facing a sheer Holocaust in case numbers.

    Reality and the overwhelming evidence coming from medics and scientists and sheer historical data disprove the lie much beloved by QAnon and racists.
    Last edited by Exarch; June 06, 2020 at 09:44 PM.

  3. #1743

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Actually your saying so is racist when it's based on racist yellow peril propaganda and QAnon talking points. What 'data' did the chinese government 'sit on for months'? This is a novel coronavirus and yet the Chinese managed to chart the genome within weeks of discovering it as a novel coronavirus. Your government wanted to go with the herd immunity approach only being talked down when facing a sheer Holocaust in case numbers.

    Reality and the overwhelming evidence coming from medics and scientists and sheer historical data disprove the lie much beloved by QAnon and racists.
    It's the least controversial aspect of this entire situation that the Chicoms ed up. Also, your wet markets are a blight upon human civilization.

    Don't cap, I'm not some Baizuo, I know exactly what China is up to.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; June 06, 2020 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #1744
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    It's the least controversial aspect of this entire situation that the Chicoms ed up. Also, your wet markets are a blight upon human civilization.

    Don't cap, I'm not some Baizuo, I know exactly what China is up to.
    Ah yes, the cope is strong in this one. Notice how the 'source' from AP isn't revealed? It's supposedly drawn from the fevered imaginations of tom clancy wannabes.

    I will however correct a glaringly ignorant point from your post: 'wet markets' as a term is simply another racist term for farmers markets in China, are you going to shut down farmers markets in the UK for the mass outbreak of Mad Cow Disease from the 90s? No? Didn't think so.

    Now we are of course assuming that the virus even originated in China when the genetic evidence indicates a source outside of China; that China was competent enough to detect a virus inside its own borders when it was freely floating around the world and yet the anglo led countries persisted in pogroms and racist persecution against Chinese peoples is quite frankly, disgraceful.

    Given the current state of the UK today and the BLM protests, we can only expect the cases to go up 2 weeks hence.

  5. #1745

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    See now you're just insulting my intelligence and appealing to liberal racial ideology, which I don't buy. This is quite literally addressing points of a propaganda mouthpiece story. Nothing about Wuhan's wet markets remotely resemble farmer's markets as the west would conceive of them. chicom health standards are non-existent to none, and this was directly responsible for the rona flu. China sat on life saving information in a desperate and pathetic attempt to save face in the international community and your attempts to further shield the chicoms from liability in this are a paper dragon which I will strike down with my superior debating kung-fu. The fact you can't even accept the rona flu started in Wuhan just demonstrates the level to which you will deny any blame the chicoms deserve.

    Hopefully after Trump wins re-election we will impose sanctions upon china which will destroy its economy as was happening before this whole thing kicked off. I for one won't be buying chicom any time soon.

  6. #1746
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Hopefully after Trump wins re-election we will impose sanctions upon china which will destroy its economy as was happening before this whole thing kicked off. I for one won't be buying chicom any time soon.
    Not even the vaccine against COVID-19?
    China Leads The Worldwide Race To Develop A COVID-19 Vaccine


    source: https://www.npr.org/2020/05/19/85897...vid-19-vaccine

  7. #1747

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Considering the people's republic of chicom had a four month head start, I would have hoped they could develop a vaccine faster, but that seems unlikely.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Considering the people's republic of chicom had a four month head start, I would have hoped they could develop a vaccine faster, but that seems unlikely.
    mmhmmm, bigger question you Anglos should be asking is why the Anglo white suprmeacsits have yet to devise a vaccine if they were working on one before this outbreak?
    Netizens demand explanation from US over Trump's January 11 first vaccine development remark

    By Liu Caiyu Source:Global Times Published: 2020/5/16 18:27:28



    US President Donald Trump tours a Honeywell International Inc. factory which produces N95 masks during his first trip since widespread COVID-19 related lockdowns went into effect, in Phoenix, Arizona. Photo: AFP



    Chinese netizens are demanding an explanation from the US as its president revealed that the US started to develop a candidate for the first COVID-19 vaccine on January 11. Despite this, US politicians still attempt to blame China for its own failures while having earlier knowledge of the impending epidemic.
    Source: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1188532.shtml

    Curiously, 11/1 was also when China released the genome of SARS-Cov-2 so going by Trump's claim, it appears the US would have known about the nature of SARS-Cov-2 well before the global outbreak. And yet despite having this apparent 'intelligence' and forewarning, the US and the UK, both Anglo nations in their arrogance failed spectacularly in containing and preparing against COVID-19.

  9. #1749
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Can you, as a supposed professional in the field, who cites studies that have to be retracted,
    The Lancet paper, I presume. I missed this. You are not entitled to agressive ignorance.

    I'm not talking about the retracted paper, I'm talking about the Recovery Trial, a randomised controlled trial, a major study lead by the University of Oxford. Read the news. Read the Guardian- it was a Guardian investigation that raised questions about Surgisphere, and showed errors in the data of the Lancet paper.
    Guardian- Hydroxychloroquine does not cure Covid-19
    The first results from the Recovery trial, which has been testing seven therapies for Covid-19, swiftly followed the retraction of a paper in the Lancet medical journal on Thursday night claiming that hydroxychloroquine was linked to an increased risk of death in Covid-19 patients.

    The Recovery trial is a “gold standard” randomised controlled trial.
    Among the 11,000 patients in the RECOVERY trial, 1,542 were randomly assigned to receive hydroxychloroquine compared to 3,132 getting regular care, with the rest using the other treatments in the study. After 28 days in the hospital, 26 percent died on hydroxychloroquine, while 24 percent in the control group died, a statistically equal result.

    Supporters of the drug hailed the paper’s retraction, but the World Health Organization and countries that have authorised use of the drug are now likely to change their position.

    Peter Horby, professor of emerging infectious diseases and global health at the University of Oxford, said they had informed the WHO, which had just restarted its hydroxychloroquine trials after pausing them because of the Lancet paper.
    That was an observational study – comparing patients in hospitals who happened to have been treated with the drug with others who had not.
    “One of the key lessons we should learn historically is that making treatment decisions based on observational data is not the way forward"
    Also, as I said before, HCQ doesn't work as a preventive measure in lupus patients, a key therapy for this patients. Even worse, these patients are struggling to get HCQ.
    Last edited by Ludicus; June 07, 2020 at 03:23 AM.
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  10. #1750

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Also, as I said before, HCQ doesn't work as a preventive measure in lupus patients, a key therapy for this patients.
    As I understand it, people with lupus are already at a higher risk both because of the disease itself and because they often are on immunosuppressants. So I don't think you can draw any conclusions from that.

    Unfortunately, there hasn't been a completed trial of what I thought might work based on the in vitro data and animal models, that is HCQ+zinc as prophylaxis. Although if that doesn't work either, I won't be surprised, a lot of things that work in vitro and/or in animal models don't pan out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #1751
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    As I understand it, people with lupus are already at a higher risk both because of the disease itself and because they often are on immunosuppressants. So I don't think you can draw any conclusions from that.
    A fine reasoning, but check here,
    COVID-19 and systemic lupus erythematosus: a case series ...
    To our knowledge, this is the first case series to report the characteristics and clinical course of COVID-19 in patients with SLE in the USA. 18 patients diagnosed with SLE on the basis of the revised classification criteria by the American College of Rheumatology had confirmed or clinically suspected COVID-19 infection.
    Previous intake of immunosuppressants before admission to hospital did not seem to influence the severity of infection.
    --------
    As I have already mentioned, there are two cases reported by our university hospital. Post 1637.I quote,

    While these two cases do not provide any definite answer to the question of whether antimalarials can prevent COVID-19 or severe disease, they show that, indeed, patients with SLE can develop disease, even if on stable hydroxychloroquine therapy.
    The mild disease course should not be attributed to the concomitant antimalarial. Rather, it is likely related to other factors known to be associated with better outcomes, such as female sex and younger age"
    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    a lot of things that work in vitro and/or in animal models don't pan out.
    Indeed.
    For example, Ivermectin kills the virus in cell culture within 48 hours. Antiviral ResearchVolume 178, June 2020, 104787 The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro
    Ivermectin is also produced here ( you know, for tropical diseases in our former colonies) ..so, let's begin to exporting to Europe. In Africa, onchocerciasis relies on annual mass ivermectin distribution.
    Last edited by Ludicus; June 07, 2020 at 05:25 AM.
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  12. #1752

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    The Lancet paper, I presume. I missed this.
    You missing things is not unusual. Though you replied directly to that quote (even editing so that it is clear you were replying to that directly) in post 1738. So it is difficult to see how you could have missed it...
    You are not entitled to agressive ignorance.

    I'm not talking about the retracted paper,
    I'm not talking about HCQ. I'm asking you to explain why claims you make should be given any credibility.


    But I will still take that as a 'no', you (who cites studies that have to be retracted, claim correspondence is a study, supports a point you make with an article that contradicts your point, and fraudulently edits quotes) can't explain why...

  13. #1753
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    I remember this study from the team of Didier Raoult in France:

    Early treatment of COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin: A retrospective analysis of 1061 cases in Marseille, France

    Methods

    We retrospectively report on 1061 SARS-CoV-2 positive tested patients treated for at least three days with the following regimen: HCQ (200 mg three times daily for ten days) + AZ (500 mg on day 1 followed by 250 mg daily for the next four days). Outcomes were death, clinical worsening (transfer to ICU, and >10 day hospitalization) and viral shedding persistence (>10 days).

    Results

    A total of 1061 patients were included in this analysis (46.4% male, mean age 43.6 years – range 14–95 years). Good clinical outcome and virological cure were obtained in 973 patients within 10 days (91.7%). Prolonged viral carriage was observed in 47 patients (4.4%) and was associated to a higher viral load at diagnosis (p < .001) but viral culture was negative at day 10. All but one, were PCR-cleared at day 15. A poor clinical outcome (PClinO) was observed for 46 patients (4.3%) and 8 died (0.75%) (74–95 years old). All deaths resulted from respiratory failure and not from cardiac toxicity. Five patients are still hospitalized (98.7% of patients cured so far). PClinO was associated with older age (OR 1.11), severity of illness at admission (OR 10.05) and low HCQ serum concentration. PClinO was independently associated with the use of selective beta-blocking agents and angiotensin II receptor blockers (p < .05). A total of 2.3% of patients reported mild adverse events (gastrointestinal or skin symptoms, headache, insomnia and transient blurred vision).

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...179?via%3Dihub

    This study doesn't have a control group, however it doesn't same very successful in comparison with the average of different city and region in France and Switzerland. For example in Geneva we have a mortality around 0.5% when we extrapolate the result of serological study on a few thousand people.
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  14. #1754

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    According to Sørensen, the virus has properties that differ greatly from SARS, and which have never been detected in nature.
    - When we technically describe the virus, we see that it has not come about in a natural development. It's done by Americans and Chinese, as part of what's called "gain of function" studies. It is done all over the world. You say you don't, but it happens all the time in advanced labs, according to Sørensen.
    China and the United States have for many years collaborated on coronavirus research. In so-called gain of function tests, the virus's infectivity is artificially increased to make it easier to use in scientific experiments. Such manipulated viruses are called "chimera" .

    In recent days, Sørensen's findings have sparked fierce debate in the British press.
    Sir Richard Dearlove, who was head of British Foreign Affairs MI6 from 1999 to 2004, tells the Daily Telegraph newspaper that the work of the research duo shows that the pandemic that paralyzes the world may have started in a laboratory.

    https://www.nrk.no/norge/norsk-forsk...lse-1.15043634
    Exclusive: Coronavirus started 'as an accident' in Chinese lab, says former MI6 boss
    Sir Richard Dearlove tells Telegraph's Planet Normal podcast that new scientific report suggests key elements of the virus were 'inserted'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...caped-chinese/
    Well this is either potentially earth shattering news, or very awkward. Perhaps both?
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  15. #1755

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Well this is either potentially earth shattering news, or very awkward. Perhaps both?
    I created this thread on the topic in order to go more in depth on all the evidence. A chimera can also occur in nature under the right conditions, but in post #7 there, I go over the reasons why I consider that unlikely in this case. In post #9, I detail the experiments that were being performed at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It's a matter of public record that they were passing chimeric coronaviruses through human cell cultures in order to make them more infectious to humans. And yes, some American scientists were involved and US tax dollars were being funneled into the research. The question as to whether these experiments have done more harm than good is hard to answer without knowing for certain if COVID-19 was the result of an escape from their lab. Currently there is no solid evidence for any particular origin hypothesis, but I believe escape from the WIV is the most parsimonious explanation based on the circumstantial evidence. Ludicus has debated against that conclusion in the other thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #1756
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Ludicus debates stuff and sometimes its just Ludicus debating stuff with himself. I don't believe anyone can follow you there on your level.

  17. #1757
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Meanwhile in the USA, Desinfectant Don makes sure there is enought medical material:

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...bs/3153622001/

  18. #1758
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    As an aside...

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/new-z...navirus-report

    At 17 days since their last Covid-19 positive test, and with the last person to have Covid-19 now recovered, New Zealand is lifting it's lock-down entirely (other than border controls). That's not a bad effort.
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  19. #1759

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    That's eradication. Good on New Zealand. They did a month severe hard lock down, 2 weeks of soft lock down, and 2 more weeks of heightened alert, and after 2 months they've completely eradicated the virus from the island.
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  20. #1760
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    It helps that they didn’t allow the virus to enter the country in large amounts as well. This along with the lockdown is why they don’t have any coronavirus.
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