Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

We're now preparing to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of "14 days to flatten to the curve."'

Their system of compliance requires your lack of defiance.

If they ordered you to strap a dildo to your forehead would you? Don't answer that, because it is clear many of you would do so.


Real pandemics don't require mandatory lock-downs. When a pandemic is real, such as the 1665-1667 Bubonic Plague in London, people take it upon themselves to avoid the public [i.e. Isaac Newton isolating himself away from others and doing some of his seminal work during that time].

Fake pandemics require government mandates because society realizes nothing serious is actually occurring and the people want to continue on with their business and live their lives, and have lives worth living.

The leaders don't follow their own guidelines because they know the whole thing is a put-on and a hoax. They wine, dine, travel, mingle, and move freely because they know there is nothing to fear. It is all a media-hyped fear-frenzy aimed at the masses, it is not for the ruling classes.

[Exarch]

https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...s-what-we-know

The California strain is about 40% more infectious than the UK strain; there is now concern that even the vaccines won't be effective against this new strain.

I don't know about you lot but i am sick and tired of being locked down. Don't be stupid, get the vaccine so we can go back to normality, whatever the hell that's going to look like post pandemic.

[ByzantinePowerGame]

https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...s-what-we-know

The California strain is about 40% more infectious than the UK strain; there is now concern that even the vaccines won't be effective against this new strain.

I don't know about you lot but i am sick and tired of being locked down. Don't be stupid, get the vaccine so we can go back to normality, whatever the hell that's going to look like post pandemic.

They won't allow normality. Fauci has already said that even vaccinated people will never be allowed to have indoor dining, theaters, sports, etc., again.

I will not be subjected to a dubious vaccination for an obvious sham hoax of a pandemic to be allowed to have a portion of my rights restored.

COVID-1984 is meant to be permanent.

Welcome to permanent medical martial law. The more you comply the more your rights will wither and die.

Massive non-compliance is the only answer if you want true normalcy and freedom.

The response to Sars-Cov2 in the US is highly federalized and overall delayed. The Obama administration actually has built up some preparation for pandemics, but this has all been removed under the Trump administration, like a totally senseless demolition, borne out of an envious and jealous hatred and a motive for revenge against Obama., which directly leads to the person of Donald Trump.

Of course the US is not inept, they have reacted very well but were overwhelmed very quickly, eventually. The best example is New York. It's not a lack of ability to react, but a disability to react in time and in a unified manner. Most necessary measures were basically delayed, because it was indeed the wrong president at the wrong time. Surprisingly, the EU has proven to work better together than the federal states of the USA.

The consequence that has to be drawn for the US, is to grant federalized rights to the CDC that overrules the decisions of individual states, like Florida. There has to be an equivalent of the FBI regarding pandemics.

I don't believe you have a coherent or correct understanding of the United States and its government and various levels of government.

The President is NOT a super-governor who governs the governors and can order them around on matters of state law. The President heads up the executive branch of the federal government.


As for New York having done a great job, do you still want to say that given that even the lame-stream media is throwing jabs at Cuomo now for his forcing sick people into nursing homes with a resulting massive death toll.

[Infidel144]

California teachers' union president is blasted as a 'hypocrite' as he's filmed dropping off his 2-year-old daughter at her private preschool for in-person lessons - despite leading the charge that it's UNSAFE to open public schools

"'Meet Matt Meyer. White man with dreads and president of the local teachers’ union,' the group wrote on Twitter. 'He’s been saying it is unsafe for *your kid* to be back at school, all the while dropping his kid off at private school.'

In a separate post to YouTube, the group added: 'Matt Meyer Berkeley Federation of Teachers President blocks opening public schools in-person, yet has had his own child in in-person school since June 2020. Stop the hypocrisy. Our children are suffering. Open schools full-time Now.'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-school.html

[Coughdrop addict]

They won't allow normality. Fauci has already said that even vaccinated people will never be allowed to have indoor dining, theaters, sports, etc., again.

I will not be subjected to a dubious vaccination for an obvious sham hoax of a pandemic to be allowed to have a portion of my rights restored.

COVID-1984 is meant to be permanent.

Welcome to permanent medical martial law. The more you comply the more your rights will wither and die.

Massive non-compliance is the only answer if you want true normalcy and freedom.

So, are all the people who say they had a loved one die from Covid liars and deep state agents? Are millions around the world just pretending to be sick or dead to make Trump look bad? Are the people I've personally seen on ventilators fighting for their lives all faking it?

[Cyclops]

California teachers' union president is blasted as a 'hypocrite' as he's filmed dropping off his 2-year-old daughter at her private preschool for in-person lessons - despite leading the charge that it's UNSAFE to open public schools

"'Meet Matt Meyer. White man with dreads and president of the local teachers’ union,' the group wrote on Twitter. 'He’s been saying it is unsafe for *your kid* to be back at school, all the while dropping his kid off at private school.'

In a separate post to YouTube, the group added: 'Matt Meyer Berkeley Federation of Teachers President blocks opening public schools in-person, yet has had his own child in in-person school since June 2020. Stop the hypocrisy. Our children are suffering. Open schools full-time Now.'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-school.html

You're right, that's a great example of how relevant discussion on these issues in the US and UK is dominated by ignorant and angry voices that can't tell the difference between a kindergarten and a school, and willing to drag kiddies into the debate. Bonus points for race references.

We have idiot antivaxxers (as distinguished from vaccine questioners, I have time for them) rallying across the country to protest mandatory COVID vaccination-when it isn't mandatory. https://www.theguardian.com/australi...capital-cities. I mean if only there was a vaccine against stupidity...oh wait...

In Australia certain unions have flexed their muscles and this has been reflected in the details of the lockdowns. I am told the teachers and construction worker's unions have had their concerns heard and lockdown measures have tended to suit their agendas. Health workers OTOH have tended to run toward danger and the vast majority of instances have seen their unions not exerting pressure in anyway as members volunteer for dangerous work, and recent retirees in more vulnerable categories actually return to work both an ancillary and front line workers.

The criticism that "the lockdown is not for the elite" is unfortunately based in some real examples. We had sportspeople classified as essential workers so they could play the Australian Open. Good for morale to keep he tennis and women's footy going (my Magpies are undefeated! Molloy is a gun!), and its a standing joke in my family that Australians would accept a coup if the footy was allowed to continue uninterrupted (and maybe an extra public holiday thrown in).

There are also examples of rich people evading quarantine with few consequences (both legal and through public shaming by newspapers) and poor people getting slammed. These ranged from the Aspen ski-holiday patients zero that started the plague in my city who went more less unpunished (and the newspapers decided not to name them, how nice) than the migrant-family party girls who flew between states and lied about it (who rightly got smashed and wrongly had their names and their pictures splashed for all to see).

No doubt the US and UK have numerous examples too from Trumps super spreader parties (what a fricking idiot he is) to Dominic Cummings "essential travel" rubbish. These examples are pretty minor but they undermine public confidence.

Its not just with regards to the pandemic: you see how a guy like Trump can take a crap on the system with the coup stuff and walk away scot free.

There's hypocrisy in this as there is across our systems. How the hypocrisy gets addressed is a good example of how the rage machines work.

[Exarch]

The criticism that "the lockdown is not for the elite" is unfortunately based in some real examples. We had sportspeople classified as essential workers so they could play the Australian Open. Good for morale to keep he tennis and women's footy going (my Magpies are undefeated! Molloy is a gun!), and its a standing joke in my family that Australians would accept a coup if the footy was allowed to continue uninterrupted (and maybe an extra public holiday thrown in).

There are also examples of rich people evading quarantine with few consequences (both legal and through public shaming by newspapers) and poor people getting slammed. These ranged from the Aspen ski-holiday patients zero that started the plague in my city who went more less unpunished (and the newspapers decided not to name them, how nice) than the migrant-family party girls who flew between states and lied about it (who rightly got smashed and wrongly had their names and their pictures splashed for all to see).

Rumour around Sydney was that the Avalon cluster was from someone in the political elite coming from the US rather than cabin crew given that the Northern Beaches tend to house a lot of the rich and powerful and that Australia's Elites have been caught skirting quarantine measures.

[Infidel144]

Il Duce Cuomo, the Emmy Award winning seniorcide (who ordered nursing homes to take patients with the China Cave Bat Lab Lung Aids virus, and then attempted to cover up resulting deaths), praised as model by Dr. Fausci, is:
"...to Be Stripped of Pandemic Emergency Powers in Legislative Deal"
"Legislators from New York's Assembly and state Senate struck a deal Tuesday to strip Gov. Andrew Cuomo of his pandemic-linked emergency powers and return matters like lockdowns to local control.

The deal will reverse emergency powers granted to Cuomo exactly a year ago, in the early days of the COVID pandemic, that gave him free rein to order measures like quarantines. It will allow executive actions critical to public health to remain in effect while permitting other temporary emergency powers to expire on April 30."
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/poli...-deal/2919491/

====
Meanwhile:

"After Border Patrol release, asylum-seekers test positive for Covid in Brownsville, Texas"

"Miriam Izaguirre, a 35-year-old asylum-seeker from Honduras, crossed the Rio Grande at dawn Monday with her young son and turned herself in to the authorities.

A few hours later she was released, and the first thing she did was take a rapid test for Covid-19 at the Brownsville bus station. They told her her test came out positive.


"Right now we were tested for Covid and they separated about eight of us because we were positive," she told Noticias Telemundo Investiga. "We are waiting right now." She was waiting to catch a bus to Houston."

"A spokesperson for Brownsville confirmed that, since they began doing these tests Jan. 25, 108 migrants have tested positive for Covid-19, which is 6.3 percent of those who took the test."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/af...as/ar-BB1eapiV

[Lord Thesaurian]

Top aides to Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo were alarmed: A report written by state health officials had just landed, and it included a count of how many nursing home residents in New York had died in the pandemic.
The number — more than 9,000 by that point in June — was not public, and the governor’s most senior aides wanted to keep it that way. They rewrote the report to take it out, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/n...me-deaths.html

Wow. Is Cuomo done? Surely, right? Crowded people into nursing homes, then tries to cover up the ensuing carnage.

[irontaino]

Wow. Is Cuomo done? Surely, right? Crowded people into nursing homes, then tries to cover up the ensuing carnage.

In a world where it was people over party, yes. Sadly, he's an establishment Democrat, so that'll get swept under the rug.

[antaeus]

In a world where it was people over party, yes. Sadly, he's an establishment Democrat, so that'll get swept under the rug.

When I read about it on Fox, they seem happy to throw away the law to hang him from the nearest tree. Democrats are giving him due process, that doesn't mean he's not going to get fed to the wolves, that just means that the wolves will have to wait for their meal.

Either way, his career is toast.

[Infidel144]

Frau Whitmer may face charges as well:
"Macomb County Prosecutor says criminal charges possible against Governor Whitmer over nursing home deaths

Criminal charges could be in the works against Governor Gretchen Whitmer over putting COVID patients inside nursing homes used as hubs early in the pandemic.

New Macomb County Prosecutor Peter Lucido says people who lost loved ones to COVID as residents or staff inside nursing homes should go back to get the vital information about the circumstances of their death and take that to local police and make a complaint as a wrongful death."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/coronaviru...ng-home-deaths

[Cyclops]

When I read about it on Fox, they seem happy to throw away the law to hang him from the nearest tree. Democrats are giving him due process, that doesn't mean he's not going to get fed to the wolves, that just means that the wolves will have to wait for their meal.

Either way, his career is toast.

You'd bloody hope so.

I think a bad plan that all the states signed up for would have been better than multiple good plans: in the event the US got multiple bad plans so it was the worst of all possible scenarios.

Both sides getting away with murder by blaming the other, I'd love to see just a bit of collegial spirit.

All I see is cheap point scoring and stupid stupid arguments. This crisis has certainly highlighted the weakest point of the powerful US system.

More viruses are coming, I'd love to see the house set in order just a little. Maybe take the CDC out of the political arena? Clean up the research and science side so there's less conflicts of interest, and stop electing dumb arse anti-science leaders? I mean the US has incredible strength in the research area, that should not be so pooed-on as it is.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Not at all, that is complete nonsense, to excuse the United States' inability to control the epidemic. Lock downs have a huge impact in outbreaks. Lockdowns, used cyclically,have been used by most European countries in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Lockdown appears to have been successful not only in alleviating the burden on the intensive care units across Europe and the world, but also in preventing uncontrolled epidemics

Your denials were already refuted in the Mudpit thread. Also, numerous US states and localities did lockdowns to varying degrees, so your assertion doesn’t even hold up to rational thought. Your preference for rhetorical assertions in a thread about the origins of the pandemic rather than addressing the studies I provided in the proper thread merely confirms you have no real basis for cheerleading lockdowns. Repeating anecdotes and causation fallacies you’re clearly unable to defend or justify doesn’t help your case either.

[Ludicus]

Your denials were already refuted in the Mudpit thread. Your preference for rhetorical assertions.. I provided in the proper thread merely confirms you have no real basis for cheerleading lockdowns. .

Says the arrogance of the ignorance. I have already told you. I don't care about your studies, don't patronize me. What's really going to matter is what happens on the practical ground.You can say that in order to avoid repeated lockdowns and their impacts, we need a sustainable COVID-19 public health strategy. Fine words, but that's on the paper. Reality has no sympathy for excuses.And learn this, lockdown effectiveness to reduce the infection growth rate and shorten an epidemic is better predicted by its early onset and progressive ending than its stringency. See post above.
Btw,
These GOP governors long resisted masks and coronavirus ...
Red state governors reject Biden on mask orders - POLITICO
First Thing: White House butts heads with anti-mask governors

What are you complaing about?

[Lord Thesaurian]

I have already told you. I don't care about your studies, dont patronize mr. What's really going to matter is what happens on the practical ground. Reality has no sympathy for excuses.

If you don’t care about studies of real data, you can hardly pretend to care about reality.

[Ludicus]

If you don’t care about studies of real data, you can hardly pretend to care about reality.

Your studies and reality do not concide. This is the reality, " on January 15, 2021, a new lockdown was adopted.On January 28 the daily cases were 16,432, and daily deaths were 303-something like a Boing crashing everyday. As of today, daily cases were 642 and daily deaths were 22.

Boris Johnson is due to announce his government's plan to exit lockdown on Feb 22, 2021. Covid-19: Boris Johnson to unveil 'cautious' plan to lift ... - BBC
Do you know the reason? Because it works!
Do you want a study? I will give you a study,Lockdown impact on COVID-19 epidemics in regions across ...

Lockdown therefore appears to have been successful not only in alleviating the burden on the intensive care units of the two most severely affected regions of France, but also in preventing uncontrolled epidemics in other regions. (1) These simple observations support results from other studies which have estimated the impact of lockdown on SARS-CoV-2 spread to be strong.Enforcement of public health and social measures in combination with important testing, tracing, and isolating capacities will be critical in case of an epidemic rebound to avoid re-introducing a lockdown—a situation for which the economic cost and broader impact on society are considerable.

(1) Exactly as I said before.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Your studies and reality do not concide. This is the reality, " on January 15, 2021, a new lockdown was adopted.On January 28 the daily cases were 16,432, and daily deaths were 303-something like a Boing crashing everyday. As of today, daily cases were 642 and daily deaths were 22.

Boris Johnson is due to announce his government's plan to exit lockdown on Feb 22, 2021. Covid-19: Boris Johnson to unveil 'cautious' plan to lift ... - BBC
Do you know the reason? Because it works!
Do you want a study? I will give you a study,Lockdown impact on COVID-19 epidemics in regions across ...


(1) Exactly as I said before.

The paper, funded by governmental organizations, presents an observation about the peak in hospitalizations in France, in relation to the timing of implementing lockdowns, and infers causation. The potential confounders are obvious, and if the conclusions drawn from a single anecdote don’t comport the analyses of global data I provided in the appropriate thread (at least one of which was also published in Lancet), that would pose a problem with the former, not the latter. The observation that transmission rates for COVID-19 fell virtually everywhere in the world during this early pandemic period, independent of the imposition or removal of lockdowns in various places, runs counter to, not in favor of, the causal role of lockdowns.

[Ludicus]

The observation that transmission rates for COVID-19 fell virtually everywhere in the world during this early pandemic period, independent of the imposition lockdowns

A complete nonsense. For example, COVID-19 in England - analysis of the first two waves -Imperial College...

Only national lockdown brought the reproduction number below 1 consistently in the first wave.
Introducing national lockdown one week earlier would have reduced the first wave death toll from 36,700 to 15,700 (95% CrI 8,900-26,800)

But from what I can see, you are a follower of “The Great Barrington Declaration”, Who Are the Scientists Behind the Great Barrington ...

After gaining some publicity, this strategy was strongly denounced by many in the scientific community.

Climate Science Denial Network Behind Great Barrington Declaration
Koch-Funded PR Agency Aided Great Barrington Declaration Sponsor»
The GBD was funded by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian think thank. A Right-Wing Think Tank Is Behind the Controversial Great ...
----
expert reaction to Barrington Declaration, an open letter ...
-------
Meanwhile- from the news,
“Auckland, New Zealand, is set to ease its seven-day lockdown on Sunday, moving from alert level three to alert level two because no new community coronavirus cases were recorded Friday”. Why? because it works.
Do you want studies? More studies?

The Efficacy of Lockdown Against COVID-19: A ... - PubMed

Results: Our results show that lockdown is effective in reducing the number of new cases in the countries that implement it, compared with those countries that do not. This is especially true around 10 days after the implementation of the policy. Its efficacy continues to grow up to 20 days after implementation.Conclusion: Results suggest that lockdown is effective in reducing the R0, i.e. the number of people infected by each infected person, and that, unlike what has been suggested in previous analyses, its efficacy continues to hold 20 days after the introduction of the policy.

Covid-19: How to break the cycle of lockdowns - The BMJ

On 4 January, just as the rollout of new vaccines seemed to offer hope on the horizon, England entered its third national lockdown, following the likes of France, Germany, and Spain back into a familiar cycle of restrictions and perseverance. Countries all over the world are grappling with the same dilemma. Until populations at large are vaccinated, people are not safe from covid-19.

Effectiveness of Second Wave COVID-19 Response ...In Australia

Data showing exponential rise in cases, doubling every 7-10 days, can be used to trigger early lockdown measures.
Such measures are shown to be necessary to reduce daily and total case numbers, and the consequential health burden, so preventing health care facilities being overwhelmed. Early control of second wave resurgence potentially permits strict lockdown measures to be eased earlier.

[Lord Thesaurian]

A complete nonsense. For example, COVID-19 in England - analysis of the first two waves -Imperial College...

But from what I can see, you are a follower of “The Great Barrington Declaration”, Who Are the Scientists Behind the Great Barrington ...

Climate Science Denial Network Behind Great Barrington Declaration
Koch-Funded PR Agency Aided Great Barrington Declaration Sponsor»
The GBD was funded by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian think thank. A Right-Wing Think Tank Is Behind the Controversial Great ...
----
expert reaction to Barrington Declaration, an open letter ...
-------
Meanwhile- from the news,
“Auckland, New Zealand, is set to ease its seven-day lockdown on Sunday, moving from alert level three to alert level two because no new community coronavirus cases were recorded Friday”. Why? because it works.
Do you want studies? More studies?

The Efficacy of Lockdown Against COVID-19: A ... - PubMed


Covid-19: How to break the cycle of lockdowns - The BMJ


Effectiveness of Second Wave COVID-19 Response ...In Australia

The studies I cited have nothing to do with the Great Barrington Declaration. The methodology and conclusions from these kinds of studies you’ve cited were already addressed here and earlier in the thread, which I assume is the reason you don’t want to talk about it. One of your citations is an opinion article, the others are based on correlations observed in individual countries.

Results: Our results show that lockdown is effective in reducing the number of new cases in the countries that implement it, compared with those countries that do not. This is especially true around 10 days after the implementation of the policy. Its efficacy continues to grow up to 20 days after implementation.Conclusion: Results suggest that lockdown is effective in reducing the R0, i.e. the number of people infected by each infected person, and that, unlike what has been suggested in previous analyses, its efficacy continues to hold 20 days after the introduction of the policy.

Judging from the one cross country empirical analysis you provided, the study purports to be provide the “first empirical evidence, from a cross-country perspective, regarding the efficacy of lock- down measures.” The authors of the claim, to their credit, note in the full text of the study (which I’m sure you read) their results may be skewed by the coincidence of the timing of lockdowns in parallel with the overall course of the pandemic across the world. They find that in Europe, for example, “countries that implemented the lockdown have, on average, more New Cases than in countries that did not. This is possibly due to the fact that in the countries that implemented lockdown, the spread of COVID-19 was already advanced compared with other countries.” This is consistent with the medical consensus that lockdowns have a minimal impact on containment beyond the earliest phases of an outbreak, which the vast majority of countries had arguably passed by the time lockdowns were ever introduced.

The authors’ goal is to “confirm that lockdown policies have had a positive impact on the pandemic,” which is a fairly moot point given I’ve yet to see research arguing lockdowns made the disease worse. Even so, the potential confounders are obvious, as I said, which could be why the authors, in order to establish a linear relationship between lockdowns and the number of cases rely on their own amalgamated dummy variables to build their primary model. The latter may therefore suffer from omitted variable bias as mentioned in the earlier critique of these kinds of studies (reiterated in summary below). The studies I cited also suggest their caveats are well-founded, given that

A) The containment approach is costly, unsustainable, inflexible and impractical. When adopted at the very beginning of the outbreak, it may help slow down the transmission of the virus. But, against the backdrop of globalisation, it is impossible to institute barriers against such spread.

B) Full lockdowns, border closures, and high rate of COVID-19 testing were not associated with reduced number of critical cases or overall mortality.

C)Given the observation that transmission rates for COVID-19 fell virtually everywhere in the world during this early pandemic period, we are concerned that these studies may substantially overstate the role of government-mandated NPI’s in reducing disease transmission due to an omitted variable bias.

Early declines in the transmission rate of COVID-19 were nearly universal worldwide, suggesting that the role of region-specific NPI’s imple- mented in this early phase of the pandemic is likely overstated. Effective reproduction numbers in all regions have continued to remain low relative to initial levels indicating that the removal of lockdown policies has had little effect on transmission rates.

D) There is a lack of strong evidence supporting a role for stay-at-home orders and business closures in the control of COVID in early 2020.

E) Reports from reputable bodies like Oxfam, the UN, and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health have contained mutually reinforcing warnings that the severity of the lockdown measures could reverse a decade’s worth of gains in infant and child mortality with over a million additional deaths, exacerbate health, hunger, and misery insecurities, and push another half billion people into poverty.

Lockdown policies that have had minimal impact on the global spread and severity of the virus but result in “over a million additional deaths” and 500 million impoverished from externalities vs 2.5 million global Covid deaths is hardly a success. If you’re going to insist on arguing about lockdowns, it doesn’t help to strawman the issue, dismiss empirical evidence as “nonsense” and/or Anglo-American capitalist conspiracies, and suggest the “first empirical evidence” remotely supportive of the average efficacy of lockdowns represents anything more than that.

In the framework of this analysis, there is no evidence that more restrictive nonpharmaceutical interventions (‘lockdowns’) contributed substantially to bending the curve of new cases in England, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain or the United States in early 2020. By comparing the effectiveness of NPIs on case growth rates in countries that implemented more restrictive measures with those that implemented less‐restrictive measures, the evidence points away from indicating that mrNPIs provided additional meaningful benefit above and beyond lrNPIs. While modest decreases in daily growth (under 30%) cannot be excluded in a few countries, the possibility of large decreases in daily growth due to mrNPIs is incompatible with the accumulated data.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484