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Thread: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

  1. #1041

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    A pretty interesting article in regards to discussion on the extent of lockdown and its effects in UK, although some points apply in Western nations across the board.
    While coronavirus is already a dangerous disease itself, this pandemic may have revealed long-existing symptoms of a far bigger problem, which is the "let them eat cake" mentality of the Western elites. Having rich media personalities demand complete lockdown and arrests of people who dare leave their premises to walk in the park is certainly not helping. Of course, it is easy to clutch at the pearls and justify de-facto house arrest for everyone if you live in a mansion with an army of servants and own acres of land, but for average folks stuck in small apartments and condos this may not be as easy neither physically nor mentally. Combined with economic crisis, we may have a perfect sociopolitical storm brewing in the very near future.
    French nobility in 1770s most likely had no idea that they'd have to run for their lives or end up guillotined in a very near future. Perhaps media personalities, celebrities, bankers, high-ranking politicians and other cosmopolitan elites need to realize that scoffing at the needs of majority of population isn't a wise idea, as history has shown us time and time again.
    With that in mind, perhaps more "surgical" approach, where only most vulnerable segments of population should be subjected to quarantine is better.

  2. #1042
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    About Coronavirus and how some very nice countries reacted to it properly, I will just leave this here...

    It shows how you effectively combat the virus.

    (Of course, Orthodox Easter is in 9 days and this means that all bets are off as I expect that we will move from linear increase to exponential increase like the rest of them. We had a good ride, saved a month's worth of deaths but I think our good run will end in 10 days).
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  3. #1043
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Greek government propaganda is off the charts, mate. We are ~average in comparison to the eastern half of Europe, and people's discipline has been extraordinary, despite some early government blunders and the inadequacy of the National Health System.
    After some back-and-forth yesterday (Petsas, Mitsotakis' Deputy Minister said on TV in the morning that believers can declare that they are going to exercise/do whatever and go to churches instead, without preprecussions, but later on the day they retracted these statements) it was finally decided that no churches are going to be open to the public.

    We are still last in EU in therms of tests/capita (hence the low number of cases), we desperately lack protective equipment for hospital workers, and Government instead of hiring medical workers and doctors or opening the ICU sectors in various state hospitals that have been sealed because of understaffing literally uses the CoVID crisis to hand out tens of millions of Euros to Media and companies owned by party-affiliated people.

  4. #1044
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Greek government propaganda is off the charts, mate. We are ~average in comparison to the eastern half of Europe, and people's discipline has been extraordinary, despite some early government blunders and the inadequacy of the National Health System.
    After some back-and-forth yesterday (Petsas, Mitsotakis' Deputy Minister said on TV in the morning that believers can declare that they are going to exercise/do whatever and go to churches instead, without preprecussions, but later on the day they retracted these statements) it was finally decided that no churches are going to be open to the public.

    We are still last in EU in therms of tests/capita (hence the low number of cases), we desperately lack protective equipment for hospital workers, and Government instead of hiring medical workers and doctors or opening the ICU sectors in various state hospitals that have been sealed because of understaffing literally uses the CoVID crisis to hand out tens of millions of Euros to Media and companies owned by party-affiliated people.
    Despite all those shortcomings when it comes to the hospitals themselves, Coronavirus spread in Greece is VERY slow. For weeks now, we've seen linear increase of 50-100 new cases per day, instead of exponential increase of 10-15% more cases per day.

    Greece is of similar population and size with Ohio and Georgia in USA. Greece was at 9 cases in March 4th. Georgia had 2 cases at the time and Ohio had 3 cases.
    Now Greece has 1955 cases while Ohio has 5500 cases and Georgia has 10855.

    As such, Greece is doing something better than Ohio and Georgia and that something is social isolation and quarantines early on.

    As for European countries, the ones I checked (France, Germany, Austria, etc) all were doing worse than Greece in how quickly the virus spread although as they also took quarantine measures to curb movement, the increase has been dropping there too.

    What I mean is: Quarantine works. And when your health system is as bad as the Greek one, quarantine is 100% necessary.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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  5. #1045
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    A fairly informative 6 minute video from Vox, no less, shows the difference between Covid-19 and the ordinary seasonal flu:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIGhz3uwuQ

  6. #1046

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Much like UK, Canada is getting hit harder by idiocy of the ruling elites then by the virus itself.
    In Toronto, people set themselves on fire, looting and other crime became a norm, while Toronto's smug moron of a mayor is asking police from his mansion to crackdown on... people walking their dogs. Talking about getting priorities straight.
    While there are a few good apples (Ontario's Premier Ford is actually doing his job and doubling-down on providing medical equipment), it is overshadowed by general incompetence of our federal government, with PM basically in hiding while making dumb cliche speeches from his porch. Given how Trudeau pretty much went out of his way to make outbreak as bad as possible(by first stating that virus isn't a threat and chastising everyone who acknowledged it as such for being racist against Chinese), he could at least do more then just read out speeches that sound like supermarket pamphlets. Unlike US, Canada has a problem with a leadership hole.
    This is an entirely avoidable atrocity, caused by greed and incompetence of rich globalist elites.

  7. #1047
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.






    https://www.yahoo.com/news/dumped-milk-smashed-eggs-plowed-160839647.html
    Dumped Milk, Smashed Eggs, Plowed Vegetables: Food Waste of the Pandemic

    David Yaffe-Bellany and Michael Corkery

    In Wisconsin and Ohio, farmers are dumping thousands of gallons of fresh milk into lagoons and manure pits. An Idaho farmer has dug huge ditches to bury 1 million pounds of onions. And in South Florida, a region that supplies much of the Eastern half of the United States with produce, tractors are crisscrossing bean and cabbage fields, plowing perfectly ripe vegetables back into the soil...

  8. #1048
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    About Coronavirus and how some very nice countries reacted to it properly, I will just leave this here...

    It shows how you effectively combat the virus.

    (Of course, Orthodox Easter is in 9 days and this means that all bets are off as I expect that we will move from linear increase to exponential increase like the rest of them. We had a good ride, saved a month's worth of deaths but I think our good run will end in 10 days).
    This afternoon I put on my face mask and safety glasses, hopped on my bicycle (yeah, I'm an old geezer, but I can still ride a bicycle) and peddled down to the convenience store to buy some beer and supplies. The place was packed and nobody in there was wearing a mask. Everybody there looked to be under 40.

    I can't tell you how pissed I was. It was as if they didn't care if they carried the virus and infected someone else. It is pretty obvious where this will lead a few weeks from now. It's crazy. Some people aren't going to realize the emergency until they see a dead body on their doorstep.

  9. #1049
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    An interesting read about democracy vs authoritarianism and the role of surveillance in the (post) corona era:

    https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-...9-1fe6fedcca75


    Today billions of people daily wash their hands, not because they are afraid of the soap police, but rather because they understand the facts. I wash my hands with soap because I have heard of viruses and bacteria, I understand that these tiny organisms cause diseases, and I know that soap can remove them. But to achieve such a level of compliance and co-operation, you need trust. People need to trust science, to trust public authorities, and to trust the media. Over the past few years, irresponsible politicians have deliberately undermined trust in science, in public authorities and in the media. Now these same irresponsible politicians might be tempted to take the high road to authoritarianism, arguing that you just cannot trust the public to do the right thing.
    Last edited by Muizer; April 13, 2020 at 07:31 AM.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  10. #1050
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/u...rspreader.html

    Well some idiots from this company boarded planes without considering they may be carriers despite working with Coronavirus. The results are more infections that are still felt around USA.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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  11. #1051
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    An interesting read about democracy vs authoritarianism and the role of surveillance in the (post) corona era:

    https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-...9-1fe6fedcca75




    yeah
    - empowering citizens, giving them good scientific education, giving them reliable information and trusting them to do the right thing

    - You may be able to trust a majority, but when you are dealing with a virus if a significant minority dont go along with voluntary measures then the virus just continues to live

    - unless you really go full scale totalitarian, and the thing is that in many of this cases you can trust the population, provided its well educated and well informed
    "people will do the right thing", yeah sure, thats why we dont need the police anymore... oh wait

  12. #1052

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    China has imposed restrictions on the publication of academic research on the origins of the novel coronavirus, according to a central government directive and online notices published by two Chinese universities, that have since been removed from the web.

    Under the new policy, all academic papers on Covid-19 will be subject to extra vetting before being submitted for publication. Studies on the origin of the virus will receive extra scrutiny and must be approved by central government officials, according to the now-deleted posts.
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/....html?ofs=fbia

    This is what governments who are blatantly ing lying about the whole situation do.

  13. #1053

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    yeah


    "people will do the right thing", yeah sure, thats why we dont need the police anymore... oh wait
    In the current technological age, the extent of potential abuse of power by the state is far more dangerous then possible negative outcomes from lack of governance. In that light things like "preventive" surveillance, gun control or and general over-regulation by the state is something that we do need to leave behind to preserve civilization and liberty.
    The best future is small governments and citizens having more freedoms at the expense of the state.

  14. #1054
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    In the current technological age, the extent of potential abuse of power by the state is far more dangerous then possible negative outcomes from lack of governance. In that light things like "preventive" surveillance, gun control or and general over-regulation by the state is something that we do need to leave behind to preserve civilization and liberty.
    The best future is small governments and citizens having more freedoms at the expense of the state.
    The problem, imho Achilles heel, of such a libertarian/anarchistic view is that it ignores the fact that 'government' isn't the only source of power and control in society. There's corporate power, criminal power, religious power ... all sorts of power. The real lesson here is the importance of "the people" controlling who exerts power and to ensure it is done on their behalf.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  15. #1055

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    The problem, imho Achilles heel, of such a libertarian/anarchistic view is that it ignores the fact that 'government' isn't the only source of power and control in society. There's corporate power, criminal power, religious power ... all sorts of power. The real lesson here is the importance of "the people" controlling who exerts power and to ensure it is done on their behalf.
    The problem with that is... Corporate, religious and criminal power stems from... government acting in its favor. Religious power stems from tax exempts and blasphemy laws imposed by governments, corporate power stems from government imposing regulation in favor of corporations and criminal power stems from government disarming its own citizens and/or making criminals a monopoly on selling plants and powders that happen to be in demand by the public. I guess the real lesson is... necessity to put the government in its place by ballot or by bullet if government ignores the ballot.

  16. #1056
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-dec...153600394.html

    Trump thinks its his decision on when the country re-opens up. Its not.

  17. #1057

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Justin Trudeau: A fine for leaving your house for thee, a family trip for me. Another good demonstration of smug "let them eat cake" mentality. The best thing that can happen to Canada is Trudeau resigning and Liberal party being dissolved for incompetence and abuse of power.
    Also he previously claimed that his wife had the virus, did he lie to generate sympathy for himself, if not, then why isn't she in self-isolation? How many people did that dumb bimbo infect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-dec...153600394.html

    Trump thinks its his decision on when the country re-opens up. Its not.
    Um, Trump is a president, that's literally his decision during emergency situations. In fact, its his job to make that decision.

  18. #1058
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Nope. All current states under lockdown were done so with state executive orders. Trump can't order any state to open. Thats a violation of the 10th Amendment. Its up to the individual states to open up.

  19. #1059

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Nope. All current states under lockdown were done so with state executive orders. Trump can't order any state to open. Thats a violation of the 10th Amendment. Its up to the individual states to open up.
    That's not what Trump said though. Sounds like another case of partisan journos using semantics to have a "gotcha" moment against BAD ORANGE MAN.

  20. #1060

    Default Re: Coronavirus outbreak - From China to the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    That's not what Trump said though. Sounds like another case of partisan journos using semantics to have a "gotcha" moment against BAD ORANGE MAN.
    Trump's words:
    For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect....

    ....It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons. With that being said, the Administration and I are working closely with the Governors, and this will continue. A decision by me, in conjunction with the Governors and input from others, will be made shortly!
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