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Thread: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The events in OP clearly prove the latter wrong and former is your assumption.
    Again, one can vote for one policy, but not the other.
    A couple thousand protesters don't represent the millions of Virginians who voted for the pro-gun control Democrats. Why did the Democrats win HH? Why is it so hard to answer my question?

    Your claim was implied in the part you quoted. I'm just pointing out lack of objective evidence that gun control is popular, but we see the proof that opposition to gun control is popular, given how this thread is about massive pro-gun rally.
    You haven't cited any evidence showing gun control isn't popular. I can't imply a claim i can only actually make one. You just don't have an answer to the question or evidence foe the claim earlier.

    I'll ask again. How did the Democrats win in Virginia.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    A couple thousand protesters don't represent the millions of Virginians who voted for the pro-gun control Democrats. Why did the Democrats win HH? Why is it so hard to answer my question?
    Again, unless you are claiming that Democrats won only because their policy on guns your talking point is irrelevant.
    You haven't cited any evidence showing gun control isn't popular. I can't imply a claim i can only actually make one. You just don't have an answer to the question or evidence foe the claim earlier.

    I'll ask again. How did the Democrats win in Virginia.
    Asking em to prove a negative? Again, we have massive protests against gun control, how many thousands showed up to support gun control?

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again, unless you are claiming that Democrats won only because their policy on guns your talking point is irrelevant.
    Election results reflect the attitudes of the population thus its very relevant. Why did they win HH?


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Asking em to prove a negative? Again, we have massive protests against gun control, how many thousands showed up to support gun control?
    Prove a negative? You're saying there's no way measure opposition to gun control in the US? Thats just you admitting you have no evidence. The "massive" protests only include a couple thousand people while again many more Virginians elected the Democrats who are pro-gun control.
    Last edited by Vanoi; February 07, 2020 at 08:41 PM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    There is a giant conspiracy involving every country but the US and every media outlet not subservient to the Republican Party to trick people into thinking that having their children murdered in school is a bad thing. That people might come to the conclusion on their own that having their children shot to death was something to be avoided is just silly. Obviously everyone who voted Democrat in Virginia was fooled by the smear campaign that told them having children shot now and then was not the way things should be.

    /sarc

  5. #125

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    If we are at a point where soldiers, rather than local law enforcement, is rounding up people, then we are probably past the point where anyone is switching sides.
    Regardless, the context of my comment was a response to a post regarding the plausibility of citizens standing up to the military, in which case the citizens would be unlikely to be on their own. In a similar hypothetical between law enforcement and the population, law enforcement would simply lose, since without the help of the military, law enforcement would be both seriously outnumbered and seriously outgunned. By some estimates, the US has considerably more civilian owned firearms than citizens. It is certainly more civilian owned firearms than adult citizens. Threats to infringe upon the second amendment (real or perceived) also tend to boost sales, so I expect that number will steadily increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #126
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So as we all know, the newly-elected government of Virginia attempted to pass laws against individual firearms ownership, immediately triggering massive protest movement against infringement on gun rights... people of all backgrounds and political beliefs showed up to defend their Constitutional Rights.
    My dear cowboys, throw away all your holsters and change the Constitution. This is what really matters,
    Congresswoman Betty McCollum (DFL, MN-04) has introduced an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to make health care a right for all Americans. The Health Care for All Amendment (H.J. Res. 17) states:

    “Health care, including care to prevent and treat illness, is the right of the people and necessary to ensure the strength of the Nation. The Congress shall have power to enforce and implement this article by appropriate legislation.”
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  7. #127

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Election results reflect the attitudes of the population thus its very relevant. Why did they win HH?
    Still dodging, eh? Are you claiming that Democrats only won because of their stance on guns?
    Prove a negative? You're saying there's no way measure opposition to gun control in the US? Thats just you admitting you have no evidence. The "massive" protests only include a couple thousand people while again many more Virginians elected the Democrats who are pro-gun control.
    We are yet to see any evidence that there is grassroots support for anti-gun narrative. We see proof of the opposite in massive rallies for gun rights. We don't see that for the opposing side of the isle. We only see support for gun control from elites and their pocket media.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Still dodging, eh? Are you claiming that Democrats only won because of their stance on guns?
    Only one dodging is you. Why did the Democrats in in Virginia HH if as you claimed gun control isn't popular?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    We are yet to see any evidence that there is grassroots support for anti-gun narrative.
    Thats outright false. Plenty of pro-gun control protests over the years especially after mass shootings.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_U...lence_protests


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    We see proof of the opposite in massive rallies for gun rights. We don't see that for the opposing side of the isle. We only see support for gun control from elites and their pocket media.
    Again a couple thousand people isn't massive. Instead we see Virginians voting in the Democrats whose platform in the 2019 election included gun control. Are you saying protests trump elections now?

  9. #129

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Only one dodging is you. Why did the Democrats in in Virginia HH if as you claimed gun control isn't popular?
    Not really. Again, are you claiming that Democrats only won because of their stance on guns?
    Thats outright false. Plenty of pro-gun control protests over the years especially after mass shootings.
    Not grassroots and school walk-outs don't count. Thanks for proving my point.
    Again a couple thousand people isn't massive. Instead we see Virginians voting in the Democrats whose platform in the 2019 election included gun control. Are you saying protests trump elections now?
    Again, we see massive rally against gun-control and no demonstrations for it. How so? And Trump got a lot of flac for backing down on some issues, including not opposing gun control enough.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Not really. Again, are you claiming that Democrats only won because of their stance on guns?
    Yes really. Why did the Democrats win in Virginia if gun control isn't as popular as you claimed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Not grassroots and school walk-outs don't count. Thanks for proving my point.
    Protests are protests regardless if they are school walk outs. Not only that these protests fit the definition of what is a grassroots movements since many of them were local and started by locals themselves. Do try again HH. You can't just dismiss my evidence because you still don't have any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again, we see massive rally against gun-control and no demonstrations for it. How so? And Trump got a lot of flac for backing down on some issues, including not opposing gun control enough.
    Again, a couple thousand people isn't massive. And it completely fails in comparison to the Virginia elections where the pro-gun control Democrats won. i showed you demonstrations already in my previous post. Here's another protest.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e39_story.html

    You can keep denying the evidence all you want. I'll keep replying with my sources and evidence to prove you wrong.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Yes really. Why did the Democrats win in Virginia if gun control isn't as popular as you claimed?
    Why did Trump win in US, if mass-immigration is as popular as you claimed?
    Protests are protests regardless if they are school walk outs. Not only that these protests fit the definition of what is a grassroots movements since many of them were local and started by locals themselves. Do try again HH. You can't just dismiss my evidence because you still don't have any.
    So none of the protests you listed were grassroots moments according to your own link. I'm sorry, but just because corporations and elites like something, doesn't mean the rest of the population does.
    And it completely fails in comparison to the Virginia elections where the pro-gun control Democrats won.
    Again:
    are you claiming that Democrats only won because of their stance on guns?
    You keep deflecting on this. Why is it so hard to prove your claim that Democrats were only elected for their stance on guns?

    Essentially what we have is massive grassroots movements for gun rights, virtually no grassroots movement supporting gun control and your only source about gun control support are notoriously flawed polls and corporate/elitist "activism".

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Yes really. Why did the Democrats win in Virginia if gun control isn't as popular as you claimed?


    Protests are protests regardless if they are school walk outs. Not only that these protests fit the definition of what is a grassroots movements since many of them were local and started by locals themselves. Do try again HH. You can't just dismiss my evidence because you still don't have any.


    Again, a couple thousand people isn't massive. And it completely fails in comparison to the Virginia elections where the pro-gun control Democrats won. i showed you demonstrations already in my previous post. Here's another protest.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e39_story.html

    You can keep denying the evidence all you want. I'll keep replying with my sources and evidence to prove you wrong.
    If Virginia had the direct democracy of citizens voting directly on referendums, per polling data we would already have strong background checks in the state but not really a rollback of other gun rights. Things like open-carry policy will almost certainly continue to be legal even with the Democratic Party in complete control. Also, people vote for political parties due to various concerns or legislative wishes, but these don't always line up with the party's entire platform. I'm sure there are many Republicans who are fiscally conservative but don't have any desire to overturn Roe V. Wade and abortion rights, for instance. For that matter, tons of registered gun owners in Virginia are also registered Democrats.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Can you cite some of those polls?

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Essentially what we have is massive grassroots movements for gun rights.
    Le me put it this way.Essentially what you (I mean, the country) have is a serious gun fetishism. America has an obscene surplus of guns, and a huge deficit in mental healthcare.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  15. #135
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Why did Trump win in US, if mass-immigration is as popular as you claimed?
    Oh bringing up old debates now? Remember my response to this last time? If restricting immigration is so popular, then why did the Democrats win the House in 2018 and Senate seats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So none of the protests you listed were grassroots moments according to your own link. I'm sorry, but just because corporations and elites like something, doesn't mean the rest of the population does.
    School walks outs by definition are local which makes them grass roots. Worse yet, the protests were organized by advocacy groups, not corporations further making your point worthless. Try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again:

    You keep deflecting on this. Why is it so hard to prove your claim that Democrats were only elected for their stance on guns?

    Essentially what we have is massive grassroots movements for gun rights, virtually no grassroots movement supporting gun control and your only source about gun control support are notoriously flawed polls and corporate/elitist "activism".
    I'm not making a claim though. I'm only asking a question in response to your claim where you said gun control isn't that popular. You mentioned the small protests in Virginia, but those still fail to answer how the pro- gun control Democrats won in Virginia.

    You keep saying yourself that there isn't any grassroot movements for gun control while claiming there were massive protests in opposition to gun control and massive grassroot movements to support it.

    And yet, with all of this, the Democrats have won nationally in 2018 and won in Virginia just last year. How do the Democrats just keep winning if gun control ins't as popular as you claim it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    If Virginia had the direct democracy of citizens voting directly on referendums, per polling data we would already have strong background checks in the state but not really a rollback of other gun rights. Things like open-carry policy will almost certainly continue to be legal even with the Democratic Party in complete control. Also, people vote for political parties due to various concerns or legislative wishes, but these don't always line up with the party's entire platform. I'm sure there are many Republicans who are fiscally conservative but don't have any desire to overturn Roe V. Wade and abortion rights, for instance. For that matter, tons of registered gun owners in Virginia are also registered Democrats.
    Thats a better answer than HH has given me so far.
    Last edited by Vanoi; February 08, 2020 at 11:56 AM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Can you cite some of those polls?
    As far as I'm aware there is only polling available for certain issues, big ticket items like stronger background checks, with 86% of Virginians favoring that despite the grumblings of the NRA. There is also a poll showing that 73% of Virginians want a "red flag" law enacted to take guns out of the hands of individuals who are proven to be a danger to the public. A much smaller majority of 54% wants to ban "assault-style weapons", namely semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15. As far as I know there is no data on open-carry, which I've never heard being an issue raised among gun rights legislation advocates in Virginia on either side of this debate, therefore it most likely is not something that will be on the table.

    Source: https://www.insidenova.com/news/poli...c8b418c52.html

  17. #137

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Oh bringing up old debates now? Remember my response to this last time? If restricting immigration is so popular, then why did the Democrats win the House in 2018 and Senate seats?
    So you are adding to your prior claim that Democrats only got elected in Virginia because of their stance of guns, another claim that Democrats only got the House because they want to give citizenship to illegal aliens? Again, you are going to need to provide a source on that.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    So you are adding to your prior claim that Democrats only got elected in Virginia because of their stance of guns, another claim that Democrats only got the House because they want to give citizenship to illegal aliens? Again, you are going to need to provide a source on that.
    Thats a nice deflection but as i mentioned my questions deal with the claims and responses you've made. You just don't want to answer because you have zero evidence to support anything you've said.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Thats a nice deflection but as i mentioned my questions deal with the claims and responses you've made. You just don't want to answer because you have zero evidence to support anything you've said.
    No, your whole narrative resides on a premise that all parties are elected over single issue . I pointed that out repeatedly and you outright ignored my response and just continued repeating same faulty argument.

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Thousands peacefully protest for Constitutional gun rights in Virginia, legacy media screeches, WV offers to annex pro-2A counties

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No, your whole narrative resides on a premise that all parties are elected over single issue . I pointed that out repeatedly and you outright ignored my response and just continued repeating same faulty argument.
    Except it doesn't. It was you who claimed gun control isn't popular. I simply asked you how a pro-gun control party like the Democrats managed to win in Virginia.

    Have you read your own OP? You've outright claimed in your own OP that almost all counties in Virginia are pro-2nd Amendment except one overpopulated Democrat county. You mentioned the "massive protests" in opposition to gun control and have repeatedly mentioned and claimed that is no grassroot support for gun control, thats its not popular, and thats its just an agenda being pushed on us by the media and elites in society.

    You've done nothing but imply that most of Virginia opposes these measures and that gun control is only favored by a minority. You haven't proven any of this, and just avoid my questions. Continue please.

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