Ports and trade fleets are bugged it seems

[Gigantus]

I am using Steam with the kingdom campaigns and proceeded as follows:

Used a mod (Clouds over Europe) where the max port (regular, not castle) and wharf resulted in three sea export lines in Murcia (moors).
I then gave this settlement the base port and base wharf which resulted in 1 line
base port and next level wharf - 1 line
base port, no wharf, 1 trade fleet bonus for port - 1 line
base port, no wharf, 2 trade fleet bonus for port - 1 line
next level port, no wharf, no trade fleet - 2 lines

It would seem that the port levels are hard coded where number of trade fleets are concerned, 3 fleets for the first 3 levels no change in 4th level, and that the trade_fleet capability has got no effect whatsoever.

Pretty sure at some stage it worked as it should, maybe when the executable got merged it got messed up? Or with the disk version?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Gigantus,
I don't really understand :-)

I thought it's like this:
port lvl1, trade fleet bonus 1 for port - 1 line
port lvl1, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 1 - 1 line
port lvl1, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 1, trade fleet bonus 1 for port - 1 line
port lvl2, trade fleet bonus 1 for port - 1 line
port lvl2, trade fleet bonus 2 for port - 2 lines
port lvl2, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 2 - 2 lines
port lvl2, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 2, trade fleet bonus 2 for port - 2 lines
port lvl3, trade fleet bonus 1 for port - 1 line
port lvl3, trade fleet bonus 2 for port - 2 lines
port lvl3, trade fleet bonus 3 for port - 3 lines
port lvl3, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 2 - 3 lines
port lvl3, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 3, trade fleet bonus 3 for port - 3 lines
port lvl4, trade fleet bonus 4 for port - 4 lines
port lvl4, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 4 - 4 lines
port lvl3, wharf lvl1 with trade fleet bonus 4, trade fleet bonus 4 for port - 4 lines

In my notes I've got "sea trade is capped at 4 fleets". I thought it's not possible to have more than 4.

But now you're saying that the trade fleet bonus don't matter at all?

JoC

[Gigantus]

Ran some tests without any trade fleet capability, only port buildings:

lvl1 = 1 export trade line
lvl2 = 2 export trade lines
lvl3 = 3 export trade lines
lvl4 = 3 export trade lines

Added trade fleet to lvl4 port:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Removed fleet from lvl4 port, added wharf building with trade fleet:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Note: while export is max 3 lines, import is max at 4 lines.

[Withwnar]

The short description of Merchant's Wharf says "A Merchant's Wharf allows an extra trade fleet, and increases trade to the settlement."

Maybe I'm reading that too literally but they could just as easily have written "in" or "to and from" there. As it is, the wording suggests that trade_fleet only affects imports not exports. How were the imports changing in those tests? I assume "lines" means in the trading details scroll; initially I thought it meant trading lines on the map.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Ran some tests without any trade fleet capability, only port buildings:

lvl1 = 1 export trade line
lvl2 = 2 export trade lines
lvl3 = 3 export trade lines
lvl4 = 3 export trade lines

Added trade fleet to lvl4 port:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Removed fleet from lvl4 port, added wharf building with trade fleet:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Note: while export is max 3 lines, import is max at 4 lines.

I understand that this is true:

Port lvl1 with no trade fleet capability, but with:
Wharf 1 trade fleet = 1 export trade lines
Wharf 2 trade fleet = 2 export trade lines
Wharf 3 trade fleet = 3 export trade lines
Wharf 4 trade fleet = 3 export trade lines

On the imports - I thought imports depend on the traide fleets from the other (partner) cities and they number of lines is influenced by the local buildings?

[Titus le Chmakus]

Nope, it is all bugged. It does not work as it should. I tried everything a while ago and had to revert back to the vanilla as nothing works ...

[Jurand of Cracow]

Nope, it is all bugged. It does not work as it should. I tried everything a while ago and had to revert back to the vanilla as nothing works ...

Can you just tell more about your findings? What actually doesn't work? Is it different than Gigantus' findings?

[Withwnar]

On the imports - I thought imports depend on the traide fleets from the other (partner) cities and they number of lines is influenced by the local buildings?

I think you're right. I never did grasp sea trade! My earlier suspicion about imports was wrong.

A quick test with the disk version gave me this...

Lvl 1 port with no trade_fleet = 0 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 2 trade_fleet = 2 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 3 trade_fleet = 3 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 4 trade_fleet = 4 export lines

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think you're right. I never did grasp sea trade! My earlier suspicion about imports was wrong.

A quick test with the disk version gave me this...

Lvl 1 port with no trade_fleet = 0 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 2 trade_fleet = 2 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 3 trade_fleet = 3 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 4 trade_fleet = 4 export lines

Actually this is how I thought everything works.

Gigantus' findings with the new Steam version seems to contradict it your findings with the disc version:
- the port levels are hard coded where number of trade fleets are concerned: Lvl1 not trade_fleet capability actually gives 1 fleet;
- no change in 4th level (so max. 3 export lines)
- impact of the trade_fleet capability: for Gigantus it has got no effect whatsoever.

[Gigantus]

Could be an issue with the executable as it seems there is a difference between the disk and steam (me) version.

[Titus le Chmakus]

I think you're right. I never did grasp sea trade! My earlier suspicion about imports was wrong.

A quick test with the disk version gave me this...

Lvl 1 port with no trade_fleet = 0 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 2 trade_fleet = 2 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 3 trade_fleet = 3 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 4 trade_fleet = 4 export lines

As far as I remember, wasn't it 1 export line for the port (no matter of its level) + 1 per wharf level ?

[Jurand of Cracow]

As far as I remember, wasn't it 1 export line for the port (no matter of its level) + 1 per wharf level ?

This is the question.
It seems to me that the current common wisdom (untill somebody falsifies it):
- if you've got a disc (box) version install of the Medieval 2, then it's true if you add trade_fleet bonus to the port and the relevant trade_fleet bonuses to the wharf;
- if you've got a Steam version, it's not, and the number of trade fleets is hardcoded to the port levels 1,2,3, and there's a limit of 3 fleets.

[Titus le Chmakus]

I do have a disc version and the trade_fleet bonus does not work as it should.

The hardcode limit is 1 fleet for the port (no matter the level) + 1 fleet per wharf level.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I do have a disc version and the trade_fleet bonus does not work as it should.

The hardcode limit is 1 fleet for the port (no matter the level) + 1 fleet per wharf level.

Titus, as I understand you're finding is that with the a disc version the situation is as follows:

Lvl (any) port with no trade_fleet = 1 export lines
Lvl (any) port with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl (any) port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl (any) port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 2 trade_fleet = 2 export lines
Lvl (any) port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 3 trade_fleet = 3 export lines
Lvl (any) port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 4 trade_fleet = 4 export lines

This is slightly different from the Withwnar, as I understand:
Lvl 1 port with no trade_fleet = 0 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet = 1 export line
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 2 trade_fleet = 2 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 3 trade_fleet = 3 export lines
Lvl 1 port with 1 trade_fleet + wharf with 4 trade_fleet = 4 export lines

[Titus le Chmakus]

Nope, I have double checked ingame looking at the sea export lines in the trade pannel.

Lvl 1, 2 and 3 ports -> 1 export line
Lvl 4 ports -> 2 export lines

Lvl 1 wharf -> 2 export lines
Lvl 2 wharf -> 3 export lines
Lvl 4 wharf -> 4 export lines

BUT

If they do not add toghether. If you have a level 4 port with level 3 wharf, you will have 4 export lines because the game takes the higher value among these. If you have a huge city with everything built (max port + max wharf) and destroy the wharf, you will notice you only have 2 exports line (because your port is at max).
Is it clear or have I misexplained ?

And if you code more trade_fleet bonus in EDB, it does not work. These numbers above are hardcoded.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Ran some tests without any trade fleet capability, only port buildings:

lvl1 = 1 export trade line
lvl2 = 2 export trade lines
lvl3 = 3 export trade lines
lvl4 = 3 export trade lines

Added trade fleet to lvl4 port:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Removed fleet from lvl4 port, added wharf building with trade fleet:

1 fleet = 3 export trade lines
2 fleet = 3 export trade lines
3 fleet = 3 export trade lines
4 fleet = 3 export trade lines

Note: while export is max 3 lines, import is max at 4 lines.

Coming back to the issue: I'll post here my tests made on the Steam version of M2TW.
They seem to confirm Gigantus' tests and go against my previous knowledge, and Withwnar and Titus knowledge as well.

----------------

Wharf (sea_trade building) of any level without port: 0

----------------

Number of incoming trade lines (ie trade lined generated in other settlements): no limit (I've seen up to seven but I assume more is possible).

----------------

Port building without any trade_fleet capability:

port lvl1 = 1 export trade line
port lvl2 = 2 export trade lines
port lvl3 = 3 export trade lines
port lvl4 = 3 export trade lines

----------------

Port building lvl X without any trade_fleet capability + wharf building with trade_fleet X:

port lvl1 + wharf trade_fleet 1 = 1 export trade line
port lvl1 + wharf trade_fleet 2 = 1 export trade lines
port lvl1 + wharf trade_fleet 3 = 1 export trade lines

port lvl2 + wharf trade_fleet 1 = 2 export trade line
port lvl2 + wharf trade_fleet 2 = 2 export trade lines
port lvl2 + wharf trade_fleet 3 = 2 export trade lines

port lvl3 + wharf trade_fleet 1 = 3 export trade line
port lvl3 + wharf trade_fleet 2 = 3 export trade lines
port lvl3 + wharf trade_fleet 3 = 3 export trade lines

port lvl4 + wharf trade_fleet 1 = 3 export trade line
port lvl4 + wharf trade_fleet 2 = 3 export trade lines
port lvl4 + wharf trade_fleet 3 = 3 export trade lines


----------------------

Another building given trade_fleet bonus: ???

----------------------

Now the idea: what if one just repaint one building instead of the other:
- wharf is renamed port (I mean: pic, description, requirement to build) - for the engine is remains a wharf
- port is renamed wharf (pic, description, requirement to build)

Then it would all be ok, right?

[makanyane]

The EDB port trees seem to be hard-coded to link to the building of the port models on the strat map, so if your "wharf" is actually the port line internally that will be what triggers the visual upgrade.

Does that fit in with what you want?

[Jurand of Cracow]

The EDB port trees seem to be hard-coded to link to the building of the port models on the strat map, so if your "wharf" is actually the port line internally that will be what triggers the visual upgrade.

Thanks, very good advice!

Do you know :
1) does the sea_trade (ie wharf) provide any special hardcoded bonus? It looks like a mediocre building if you've just softcoded effects.

      capability      {
        trade_fleet 1
        trade_base_income_bonus bonus 1
        population_growth_bonus bonus 2
		}

2) what will happen if I re-code only the names of the buildings leaving the chain name unchanged (I'd expect the game to generate on-map models on the basis of the chain name, so it would work)

building port{
  convert_to castle_port
  levels port shipwright dockyard naval_drydock
  {

building port{
  convert_to castle_port
  levels port1 port2 port3 port4 port5 
  {

[Gigantus]

1 - soft coded via capabilities
2 - in my opinion the hard coded stuff will be linked only to the tree name and the levels, not the individual branch names and unlike the core building there are no battle models involved so you should be fine. Simply change the lowest level name, create\build that port in game and set it up via descr_strat as well and see what happens.

[Nordlaender]

This is the question.
It seems to me that the current common wisdom (untill somebody falsifies it):
- if you've got a disc (box) version install of the Medieval 2, then it's true if you add trade_fleet bonus to the port and the relevant trade_fleet bonuses to the wharf;
- if you've got a Steam version, it's not, and the number of trade fleets is hardcoded to the port levels 1,2,3, and there's a limit of 3 fleets.

I am using the Steam version of MTW2 and the Stainless Steel 6.4, and I have achieved 4 export fleets maximum.

The level one port provides the first trade fleet, then the wharf, (forgot name), and docklands provide 3 more, as you can see below: