098 teaser: NEW AI and DIPLOMACY

[Macaras]

Hi guys, here are some informations on the updated CAI which is included in the SSHIP version from June 2023 -
here is the link. One request - in the beginning you may find it too difficult and too much dependent on reputation and relations. In this case - start from lower difficulties, and please let me know your experience. I would be very interested as I have no time to test it on different levels then very hard.

What's new in the June 2023 version:
- there is a script that links more difficult version of AI depending if the faction has many cities. It works only on difficulty level very hard. Here is an example for HRE:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart not IsFactionAIControlled        and CampaignDifficulty = very_hard 
        log ---  check the size of human faction for ai_labels

        if not I_IsFactionAIControlled hre
            if I_NumberOfSettlements hre > 7
                link_faction_ai france difficult
                link_faction_ai poland difficult
                link_faction_ai aragon difficult
                link_faction_ai england difficult
                link_faction_ai denmark difficult
                link_faction_ai venice difficult
                link_faction_ai pisa difficult
                log ---  ai_labels linked to difficult
            end_if
            if I_NumberOfSettlements hre < 8
                link_faction_ai france default
                link_faction_ai poland default
                link_faction_ai aragon default
                link_faction_ai england default
                link_faction_ai denmark default
                link_faction_ai venice default
                link_faction_ai pisa default
                log ---  ai_labels linked to default
            end_if
        end_if

There are some empires that are very easy to start with - like Byzantium and HRE, or others that have an easy access to big cities - Italian or Middle East factions. If they grow beyond number of settlements defined in the script - they don't need protective mechanisms that are included in 'default' AI (less backstabbing, never attacking trusted allies, protection for the second or third war - in the first 150 turns). After 150 turns the 'difficult' and 'default' AIs become the same.

- some small tweaks - for example the reputation changes after released prisoners is more balanced, also asking ransom is fixed. If the ransom is paid there is no reputation damage, but if it is not, and player exterminates the captives - the reputation suffers severely.

- the demeanour in negotiations is changed a little (although the descr_diplomacy file is still a big mystery many times), so AI will be slower to considers offers as very generous.

About the previous versions:

The AI is based on PiterAI with many diplomacy and faction relations modifications, especially regarding dealing with human. The way AI factions wage war and make alliances with each other is basically unaltered PiterAI. It is still work in progress, but here, in short, is what you can expect:

1. AI will attack adjusting the size of the army, many times using invade opportunistic. It is more focused on defense though, and many times will be using full stacks for both defense and attack:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. Even though AI is aggressive and backstabbing, diplomacy is more balanced - sometimes AI will be very reliable or even trustworthy:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

However, this happens only if the player keeps his reputation high - above reliable. If your reputation goes under mixed, expect everybody being hostile, also signing peace becomes very difficult sometimes. Also the further in the game and the bigger player is - AI will be more hostile and backstabbing.

3. It is also much more difficult to make alliance, ceasefire and buy or exchange settlements (more realistic):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

3. Naval invasions happens when ai faction is strong enough:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BELOW IS THE DIPLOMACY GUIDE:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Reputation and relations go from -1.0 to +1.0. Lowest to highest:
Reputation:
Despicable -1
Deceitful -0.8
Very untrustworthy -0.6
Untrustworthy -0.4
Dubious -0.2
Mixed = 0.0
Reliable 0.2
Very Reliable 0.4
Trustworthy 0.6
Very Trustworthy 0.8
Immaculate 1
Relations:
Abysmal -1
Terrible -0.8
Very poor -0.6
Poor -0.4
So-so -0.2
Reasonable =0.0
Amiable 0.2
Good 0.4
Very Good 0.6
Outstanding 0.8
Perfect 1

1. High reputation will give some benefits:
- Trusted ally- if rep is higher than reliable (precisely 0.3) your allies will not attack you,
- Better relations with others, smaller chance of being attacked,
- New trades and alliances and even buying settlements are easier,

3. To raise reputation:
- Release prisoners (also improves relations with your enemy)
- Assist your allies in battle,
- Take part in crusades, jihads and conquer the targets
- Build big cathedrals and mosques, and big charity centers,
- Never exterminate or sack cities, be very careful to start the war first.

4. If you are at war and relations fall to terrible or abysmal your enemy may not want peace no matter what. Just stay in your territory, release prisoners if he attacks you, wait until he forgets a little bit the harm done and when relations go up, try ceasefire again. Being at war is sometimes beneficial as winning battles and releasing many captives gives good reputation the fastest.
5. When you are among one of the 5 or even more one of 3 biggest factions, the relations will gradually decrease to very bad, and that should result in a war from many directions. If your reputation is very good, it will not happen or will happen later (remember that some factions start already being one of the biggest)
6. Buying or trading settlements is very rare, if another faction has only few settlements probably there is no reasonable price that will make them sell it.
7. Beware of being called warmonger as it will decrease rapidly your relations and public order in your cities.
8. Giving money as a gift will help your relations very little and not affect your reputation at all (neither + nor -). Usually, the amount to pay for increase in relations is too big to make it worth it. Alliances are also much more expensive than before or in vanilla.
9. Many times, especially in beginning, you will need to wait for the other factions to propose the alliance or ceasefire- you will basically have not enough money to pay for it. It’s on purpose, otherwise the whole diplomacy in the game is reduced to have a lot of money. There are only 5 cases when the AI will want peace (even sometimes to the point of paying a lot for it):
- randomly (so if you want peace, send diplomats every turn)
- when much weaker than human (three entries with very specific conditions- military balance, free strength balance, frontline balance and especially number of enemies counts)
- has a ceasefire mission from the Pope (only between catholic factions, even if AI is winning and is very stronger, sometimes the player may not be conscious of being helped by the Pope)
If you enemy doesn’t want peace, you are the one that needs to pay for it. After signing a treaty, there is a time when no attack will occur (10 turns after ceasefire and 20 turns after alliance).

10. As alliances are more expensive and the diplomacy more precarious- choose your allies well. The world will soon be divided into different groups of allies. If you rep is good enough to be treated as a trusted ally you will benefit from your allies helping you in war. To survive as Portugal, Hungary, Serbia and some other factions depends on having trusted allies and keeping some borders protected. Most of the times it is extremely difficult or impossible to wage war with few enemies at the same time.
11. The difficulty raises with time. In the beginning the player have a little easier time to prepare for war. After turn 50 AI becomes more aggressive, after turn 100 your allies will be more backstabbing (if you are not considered a ‘trusted ally’).

There are other factors in diplomacy, but not so important as the ones above. The ones I wrote above are tested to be working and trigger but still needs improvement. Following your feedback, I will continue working on it and raise/ lower some factors to make it work better.

[demagogos nicator]

Very interesting changes. Great job!

[alhoon]

Very good!

[nvm]

Wait, you actually got the game to show the exact modifiers to diplomacy? That is very impressive, how exactly did you do that?

[Macaras]

Wait, you actually got the game to show the exact modifiers to diplomacy? That is very impressive, how exactly did you do that?

There is a command that works in the scripts : console_command toggle_demeanour. I put it together with two other commands that we use to see some details of the game:

;========================================================================================
;------- Reveal everything ( shift + r to trigger)
;========================================================================================


monitor_event ShortcutTriggered ShortcutTriggered strat_ui revealShortcut
log --- REVEAL SHORTCUT FIRED
console_command toggle_fow
console_command toggle_perfect_spy
console_command toggle_demeanour
end_monitor

Perfect spy is like a toggle_fow but allows to see also the armies, its basically "perfect spy" everywhere With this script after pressing shift + r you will also see the demeanor in the diplomacy window.

[Kilgore Trout]

I've played with Pieter AI before and I found the game to not be enjoyable as I was attacked constantly by almost everyone after a certain point. I like a challenging game, but I was being attacked everywhere with small armies by all my former allies. It was one small battle after another after another every turn.

Perhaps one solution might be if you could make a second version of the Pieter AI with a very low backstabbing where alliances usually hold quite strongly. Anyway, just a thought. Looking forward to your new version of Pieter AI!

[Macaras]

It happens that a small army attack another small army but as much as I observed ai always obeys the factor 0.95 set in the descr_campaign, which mean ai will only attack if his army is 95% of the enemy's army or bigger. I totally agree with your observation on being backstabbed, in the last version I lowered it. If you are very reliable and relations are more or less, above terrible your allies will never attack you, unless you become very strong, there is 'tall poppy' syndrome- they see you as a threat, then the relations will go down to abysmal and you will be attacked. Here is the last update, if you want to try it:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/jz2mt...-2022.zip/file

[Kilgore Trout]

Thanks for your reply, but I won't be able to play for quite awhile as I'm very busy with work now. Very much looking forward to it though when I get the time!

[mekal]

think i remember reading somewhere that version 0.98 altered diplomacy so that even while having immaculate reputation youll still lose relations with other empires if youre to large is there a way to revert that so its just reputation based if so could someone please share what files i would need to edit thank you

[Macaras]

think i remember reading somewhere that version 0.98 altered diplomacy so that even while having immaculate reputation youll still lose relations with other empires if youre to large is there a way to revert that so its just reputation based if so could someone please share what files i would need to edit thank you

Hi Mekal, its in the file .../SSHIP_098/data/descr_faction_standing.txt :

;------------------------------------------
;Standing rapidly decrease when human becomes strong
;Gets to 50% strongest and in first 5 factions
;Reputation reliable and above prevents 


Trigger 0088_Update_Tall_Poppy4
    WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
    Condition FactionHasRank
        and FactionScorePercent overall > 50
        and FactionScoreRank overall <= 5
        and FactionIsLocal
        and GlobalStanding < 0.4
        
    FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave, papal_states } -0.05
    
;------------------------------------------
;Standing rapidly decrease when human becomes very strong
;Gets to 67% of the strongest and in first 3 factions
;Has to have really good reputation (above very reliable) not to be seen as the worst threat


Trigger 0088_Update_Tall_Poppy5
    WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
    Condition FactionHasRank
        and FactionScorePercent overall > 67
        and FactionScoreRank overall <= 3
        and FactionIsLocal
        and GlobalStanding < 0.6
        
    FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave, papal_states } normalise -1.0 10

There are also three more entries above that affect also AI. If you want to switch them off, you may just put a sign ';' in the beginning of the line "FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave, .....".
One observation - if your reputation is above 0.4 or even better 0.6 - you will not be punished by these entries. If you are very reliable and up - trustworthy, very trustworthy, immaculate reputation you will also very unlikely be attacked by your allies, ceasefires will be easier and everybody will like you more. To have this reputation:
-release prisoners (especially above 100 captives),
-take part in the crusades, jihads,
-construct cathedrals and temples,
-never exterminate or sack settlements - never attack an ally, very rarely start wars.

[mekal]

thank you so much establishing solid borders then switching to playing tall is going to be much more enjoyable now

[mekal]

One observation - if your reputation is above 0.4 or even better 0.6 - you will not be punished by these entries. If you are very reliable and up - trustworthy, very trustworthy, immaculate reputation you will also very unlikely be attacked by your allies, ceasefires will be easier and everybody will like you more. To have this reputation:
-release prisoners (especially above 100 captives),
-take part in the crusades, jihads,
-construct cathedrals and temples,
-never exterminate or sack settlements - never attack an ally, very rarely start wars.

apologies i couldnt find the edit button i was still slowly losing reputation with every other empire on the map with very trustworthy reputation even while being at peace i may have misunderstood though either way hopefully this changes that and thank you again

[Macaras]

Maybe the problem is the warmonger part which lowers reputation but its corresponding part in cs.txt was not working properly. So you may comment the lines that start with "FactionStanding global normalise..." it will make these entries doing nothing.

Trigger Player_Aggressivity_Warmonger
    WhenToTest FactionTurnEnd
    
    Condition I_EventCounter player_aggressivity > 8
    and I_EventCounter player_aggressivity < 12
    FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave } normalise -1.0 1000
    FactionStanding global normalise -1.0 60


;------------------------------------------
Trigger Player_Aggressivity_Warmonger12
    WhenToTest FactionTurnEnd
    
    Condition I_EventCounter player_aggressivity > 11
    and I_EventCounter player_aggressivity < 24
    FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave } normalise -1.0 700
    FactionStanding global normalise -1.0 40
    
;------------------------------------------
Trigger Player_Aggressivity_Warmonger24
    WhenToTest FactionTurnEnd
    
    Condition I_EventCounter player_aggressivity > 23
    
    FactionStanding exclude_factions { slave } normalise -1.0 500
    FactionStanding global normalise -1.0 20

[Kilgore Trout]

Is the AI that comes in the April 98 download the most up to date version?

Also, any ideas what new things will be in the next patch or update, and when that might come?

Thanks!

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is the AI that comes in the April 98 download the most up to date version?

Also, any ideas what new things will be in the next patch or update, and when that might come?

Thanks!

very soon! we're just putting together a new version.
and the Macaras' AI/diplomacy will be there

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, then I might just wait until it comes out before I start my new campaign.

Also, btw, I was wrong in requesting the Germanicu5 ReallyBadAI Hardcore Addon be included in SSHIP. I played a custom battle with .98 and it appeared that the the Addon is already included. So that is a wonderful thing!

Thanks Jurand! Looking forward to the next edition or update!

[Macaras]

This is a first attempt to make some diplomacy guide which seems to be very important to know what’s going on during the campaign. I hope it will be helpful:

1. Reputation and relations go from -1.0 to +1.0. Lowest to highest:
* Despicable
* Deceitful
* Very Untrustworthy
* Untrustworthy
* Dubious
* Mixed
* Reliable
* Very Reliable
* Trustworthy
* Very trustworthy
* Immaculate

1. High reputation will give some benefits:
- trusted ally- if rep is higher then reliable your allies will not attack you,
- Better relations with others, smaller chance of being attacked
- New trades and alliances and even buying settlements are easier
3. To raise reputation:
- release prisoners(also improves relations with your enemy)
- Assist your allies in battle,
- Take part in crusades, jihads and conquer the targets
- Build big cathedrals and mosques, and big charity centers,
- Never exterminate or sack cities, be very careful to start the war first.
4. If you are at war and relations fall to terrible or abysmal your enemy may not want peace no matter what. Just stay in you territory, release prisoners if he attacks you, wait until he forgets a little bit the harm done and when relations go up, try ceasefire again. Being at war is sometimes beneficial as winning battles and releasing many captives gives good reputation the fastest.
5. When you are among one of the 5 or even more one of 3 biggest factions, the relations will gradually decrease to very bad, and that should result in a war from many directions. If your reputation is very good, it will not happen or will happen later (remember that some factions start already being one of the biggest)
6. Buying or trading settlements is very rare, if another faction has only few settlements probably there is no reasonable price that will make them sell it.
7. Be ware of being called warmonger as it will decrease rapidly your relations and public order in you cities.
8. Giving money as a gift will help your relations very little and not affect your reputation at all. Usually the amount to pay for increase in relations is so big that make it not worth it. Alliances are also much more expensive then before or in vanilla.
9. Many times, especially in beginning, you will need to wait for the other factions to propose the alliance or ceasefire- you will basically have not enough money to pay for it. It’s on purpose, otherwise the whole diplomacy in the game is reduced to have a lot of money.
10. As alliances are more expensive and the diplomacy more precarious- choose your allies well. The world will soon be divided into different groups of allies. If you rep is good enough to be treated as a trusted ally you will benefit from your allies helping you in war. To survive as Portugal, Hungary, Serbia and some other factions depends on having trusted allies and keeping some borders protected. Most of the times is extremely difficult or impossible to wage war with few enemies at the same time.
11. There are other factors in diplomacy, but not so important as the ones above. The ones I wrote above are tested to be working and trigger but will be improved in the next version. Following you feedback I will continue working on it and raise/ lower some factors to make it work better.

[borysik]

I find the AI/diplomacy punishes the player too much. I'm convinced it's impossible to win with some factions such as Rum on harder difficulty where releasing Romans is not viable and you also need the additional income from ransoming. AI aggression is fine but imo the diplomacy debuffs for certain actions need a bit of a nerf.

[Macaras]

I think that the next version will be a little toned down and polished in this sense, regarding warmongering and some other aspects. Its coming soon