How do I get my family members to marry?

[loga_turtle]

I've had this problem with almost every campaign I've played. After a while (approximately 100 turns), I stop getting offers for my family members to get married. Is there a way to address this? It's a shame to see my amazing family members die without leaving a legacy.

[Sar1n]

There are hardcoded issues with family tree in M2. First, the number of family members you are allowed is hardcoded, based on number of provinces you control. Want more family members, expand.
Second, the game tends to "lock" on one family member and will keep you giving marriage or adoption offers for him/her until one is accepted. But if you refuse too long, the game will throw a tantrum and will stop giving you any marriage or adoption offers at all for some time.

All this is unfortunately hardcoded and no modder ever found a way around it. Keep that in mind when planning your dynasty.

[Roma_Victrix]

There are hardcoded issues with family tree in M2. First, the number of family members you are allowed is hardcoded, based on number of provinces you control. Want more family members, expand.
Second, the game tends to "lock" on one family member and will keep you giving marriage or adoption offers for him/her until one is accepted. But if you refuse too long, the game will throw a tantrum and will stop giving you any marriage or adoption offers at all for some time.

All this is unfortunately hardcoded and no modder ever found a way around it. Keep that in mind when planning your dynasty.

While all of this is very true, you guys also removed the ONE tool that the game offered to mitigate this problem: the princess agent.

With a princess, you don't have to marry her off to a foreign faction to gain an alliance or use her as a diplomat until she dies. You can literally marry her to one of your prominent family members who isn't already married, usually ensuring that they can produce children with traits like their father. The game is already hard enough as it is when it comes to this issue and the removal of the princess just makes it impossible to guarantee that the family will grow in an orderly/planned fashion.

It's actually made worse by the fact that the game seems to get confused if you recruit too many allied government client rulers at once. It lumps them in with the total number of family members, so that when the client rulers die off all of the sudden you're left with an extremely diminished amount of family members/generals. When my empire grows big enough to about 100 provinces or so, this sometimes turns into a disparity of 30 to 40 family members less than I theoretically should have, given the number of provinces. This has the potential to ruin your economy, to endanger your borders due to emboldened enemies facing your captains instead of generals, and significantly decreases your chances of keeping troublesome rebellious settlements in order with enough quality governors to make sure they aren't misbehaving and revolting.

[Sar1n]

While all of this is very true, you guys also removed the ONE tool that the game offered to mitigate this problem: the princess agent.

With a princess, you don't have to marry her off to a foreign faction to gain an alliance or use her as a diplomat until she dies. You can literally marry her to one of your prominent family members who isn't already married, usually ensuring that they can produce children with traits like their father. The game is already hard enough as it is when it comes to this issue and the removal of the princess just makes it impossible to guarantee that the family will grow in an orderly/planned fashion.

Ah, yes, the Habsburg solution.

[Haze88]

While all of this is very true, you guys also removed the ONE tool that the game offered to mitigate this problem: the princess agent.

With a princess, you don't have to marry her off to a foreign faction to gain an alliance or use her as a diplomat until she dies. You can literally marry her to one of your prominent family members who isn't already married, usually ensuring that they can produce children with traits like their father. The game is already hard enough as it is when it comes to this issue and the removal of the princess just makes it impossible to guarantee that the family will grow in an orderly/planned fashion.

It's actually made worse by the fact that the game seems to get confused if you recruit too many allied government client rulers at once. It lumps them in with the total number of family members, so that when the client rulers die off all of the sudden you're left with an extremely diminished amount of family members/generals. When my empire grows big enough to about 100 provinces or so, this sometimes turns into a disparity of 30 to 40 family members less than I theoretically should have, given the number of provinces. This has the potential to ruin your economy, to endanger your borders due to emboldened enemies facing your captains instead of generals, and significantly decreases your chances of keeping troublesome rebellious settlements in order with enough quality governors to make sure they aren't misbehaving and revolting.

I'd kill to have the princess back if only to prevent my Royal dynasty from dying out within a generation . I've also stopped installing clients until the Royals breed first

[Septentrionalis]

While all of this is very true, you guys also removed the ONE tool that the game offered to mitigate this problem: the princess agent.

There must have been some virtue in removing that feature. Was it a practical one or something having to do with being unfit for the setting? I have not played Medival 2 as such, but at least a recruitable princess agent would feel odd.

[Roma_Victrix]

There must have been some virtue in removing that feature. Was it a practical one or something having to do with being unfit for the setting? I have not played Medival 2 as such, but at least a recruitable princess agent would feel odd.

It wouldn't make sense for every faction, but even for republics like Rome it actually still makes sense when you consider the obviously politically motivated Roman marriage alliances that occurred before and during the lifetime of Julius Caesar and Octavian. For that matter Mark Antony literally married a foreign queen, Cleopatra VII of Ptolemaic Egypt. It's not like these things don't make sense within our EBII time frame. The princess agent is perfectly acceptable in this world of classical antiquity, especially with Hellenistic factions having Macedonian Greek royal houses. The Antigonids, Ptolemies and Seleucids commonly resolved their conflicts by resorting to temporary marriage alliances coupled with treaties.

[Jurand of Cracow]

a recruitable princess agent would feel odd.

It depends on how you intrepret such an agent.
As pointed out, the marriages were diplomacy tools in the EBII timeframe. I'd add that not only in the Greek or Persian world but also among "barbarians". Eventually, marriages between elites of the various tribes lead to the creation of larger political groups in the Late Antiquity, what gave them the power to overcome the Western Roman empire structures (the process is descriged eg. in Peter Heather works).
"Recruiting" a princess might be interpreted (and decribed) as "appointing a noble women to perform diplomatic or political actions". Wouldn't be odd, imo.

[Roma_Victrix]

It depends on how you intrepret such an agent.
As pointed out, the marriages were diplomacy tools in the EBII timeframe. I'd add that not only in the Greek or Persian world but also among "barbarians". Eventually, marriages between elites of the various tribes lead to the creation of larger political groups in the Late Antiquity, what gave them the power to overcome the Western Roman empire structures (the process is descriged eg. in Peter Heather works).
"Recruiting" a princess might be interpreted (and decribed) as "appointing a noble women to perform diplomatic or political actions". Wouldn't be odd, imo.

It would be utterly fantastic if they could be recruited like diplomats, but on a much more limited basis in terms of quantity, of course. That way you could have not only a second diplomatic agent but also one that could ensure the longevity of royal dynasties, which disappear a little too quickly if it's only one or two generations. Some dynasties died out quickly, it is true, but the major Hellenistic royal houses lasted for centuries.

[Jurand of Cracow]

It would be utterly fantastic if they could be recruited like diplomats, but on a much more limited basis in terms of quantity, of course. That way you could have not only a second diplomatic agent but also one that could ensure the longevity of royal dynasties, which disappear a little too quickly if it's only one or two generations. Some dynasties died out quickly, it is true, but the major Hellenistic royal houses lasted for centuries.

Well, as you know, there's a Royal Ladies of the Court submod to the Stainless Steel making them recruitable. Not difficult to adopt to the EBII, I believe.
In the newest SSHIP (096) there's a script giving the AI additional princesses since the Medieval 2 mechanics makes it less likely for princess-agents to appear (since they'are likely CoA before their fathers acceed to the throne).

[Roma_Victrix]

Well, as you know, there's a Royal Ladies of the Court submod to the Stainless Steel making them recruitable. Not difficult to adopt to the EBII, I believe.
In the newest SSHIP (096) there's a script giving the AI additional princesses since the Medieval 2 mechanics makes it less likely for princess-agents to appear (since they'are likely CoA before their fathers acceed to the throne).

Cool! That's fantastic how you can bypass the strictures of the game like that to ensure their presence in SS. The more you mention it, the more I'd like to see it in EBII!