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Thread: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

  1. #681

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    And ISIS is gone. Iraq is re-building and has been since 2003. You can keep trying to pin the blame on the US bur it comes to a time when they have to take responsibility for themselves. The US isn't forcing them to keep the current government the protesters want ousted so bad.
    If there is one thing Iraqis want, it is to get rid of US bases on their territories. Because USA is responsible for pretty much all the current problems in Iraq. American aggression and occupation would probably cause negative effects for decades to come. Iraqis have every right to blame Americans for these problems.
    The only plan here is an autonomous state, not an independent one. No where in my source does it state they plan to establish a theocratic state. They'd simply be an autonomous territory just like the Iraqi Kurds and would still be part of Iraq.
    So where does it say that they are secular? Seems to be a part of your claim, yet nowhere in the article you posted as your source.
    On the other hand, we have a history of US supporting theocratic nutjobs in the region.

  2. #682
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If there is one thing Iraqis want, it is to get rid of US bases on their territories.
    Not the Kurds or Sunnis who didn't vote the US out. Nor is that even the goal of the current protests which seek to reform the government.


    Because USA is responsible for pretty much all the current problems in Iraq. American aggression and occupation would probably cause negative effects for decades to come. Iraqis have every right to blame Americans for these problems.
    America isn't turning Iraq into an Iranian puppet nor did they force the current government into power. The corruption and problems in their government were created by themselves. Thats why the Iraqis are protesting to change that.

    So where does it say that they are secular?
    It doesn't but you were the one claiming they were jihadists who wanted a theocratic state. You must have proof right?
    Seems to be a part of your claim, yet nowhere in the article you posted as your source.
    Where did i claim I knew what government the Sunnis would form? I only mentioned my source doesn't say anything about them establishing a theocratic state like you claimed with zero evidence.

    On the other hand, we have a history of US supporting theocratic nutjobs in the region.
    So you have proof for your claims?
    Last edited by Vanoi; January 26, 2020 at 10:35 AM.

  3. #683

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Objectively, the main problem in Iraq is American invasion and occupation. Americans literally bombed their way into their country, killing thousands and causing deaths of hundreds of thousands.
    Population wants Americans out, Iraqi government that this population has fairly elected wants Americans out, so is pretty much the rest of the world.
    The only group that benefits from US occupations are Sunni jihadis, and you are yet to provide any proof that they are secular.

  4. #684
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Objectively, the main problem in Iraq is American invasion and occupation. Americans literally bombed their way into their country, killing thousands and causing deaths of hundreds of thousands.
    And the Iraq War ended a decade ago. So whats the excuse now? Was it the US who forced the current government into power?

    Population wants Americans out,
    Not the Kurds or Sunnis.


    Iraqi government that this population has fairly elected wants Americans out, so is pretty much the rest of the world.
    The same Iraqi government the protesters want to oust?

    The only group that benefits from US occupations are Sunni jihadis, and you are yet to provide any proof that they are secular.
    You haven't even proven they are jihadists. You also claimed they seek to establish a theocratic state. You going to prove that claim?

  5. #685

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Iraq war never really ended as conflicts caused by US invasion are still affecting Iran today, including rise of ISIS (which US did more to help then to fight). US has done pretty much nothing to help Iraqis recover - instead US troops are basically there to maintain US control of the region against population's wishes. While we are yet to see any evidence that protest against Iraq's government are still a thing, Iraqi parliament (elected by Iraqis) told americans to GTFO.
    Also we are still wasting on you to prove your claim that those Sunnis are secular.

  6. #686
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Iraq war never really ended as conflicts caused by US invasion are still affecting Iran today, including rise of ISIS (which US did more to help then to fight). US has done pretty much nothing to help Iraqis recover - instead US troops are basically there to maintain US control of the region against population's wishes.
    You got evidence for the claim the US helped ISIS morre than fighting it?

    I'll ask again. Did the US force the current Iraqi government into power?

    While we are yet to see any evidence that protest against Iraq's government are still a thing, Iraqi parliament (elected by Iraqis) told americans to GTFO.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/w...ests-Sadr.html

    Iraqi government security forces on Saturday took back ground from protesters in Baghdad and Basra, in an apparent bid to quell thedemonstrations that have lasted for nearly four months amid calls for new elections and an end to government corruption.
    The protests are definitely against Iraq's government as my source shows. I await your counter-evidence.

    And the vote in Iraq's Parliment is non-binding. None of the Kurdish or Sunni MPs voted to oust American forces.

    Also we are still wasting on you to prove your claim that those Sunnis are secular.
    who claimed they're jihadists? Me or you? Burden of proof is on you.
    Last edited by Vanoi; January 26, 2020 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #687

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    US spent decades backing violent Sunni theocracies in the region, and then had Pikachu face when ISIS emerged. Please, US is responsible, because US invaded Iraq. Iraqi government being corrupt doesn't change the fact that US literally destroyed the country and then cause rise of theocratic faction that destroyed half of it again. Iraqis are right to blame US for their problems. If it wasn't for US, Iraqis wouldn't have to deal with them.

  8. #688
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    US spent decades backing violent Sunni theocracies in the region, and then had Pikachu face when ISIS emerged.
    No source? Well it doesn't matter. If they become an autonomous state that means they are still de facto part of Iraq and ahear to Iraq's government. They can't form a theocracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Please, US is responsible, because US invaded Iraq. Iraqi government being corrupt doesn't change the fact that US literally destroyed the country and then cause rise of theocratic faction that destroyed half of it again. Iraqis are right to blame US for their problems. If it wasn't for US, Iraqis wouldn't have to deal with them.
    Yet it wasn't the US who forced the current government on Iraq. Last time i checked as per my source the protesters did mention reform and corruption in the government as the reason for their demonstrations, not the US invasion in 2003.

  9. #689
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Let's try to tone down the discussion and keep it impersonal please. Try to structure your answers avoiding referring to other posters. Try to address the argument itself, not the other poster, as per the rules of the mudpit.
    Last edited by alhoon; January 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM.
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  10. #690
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    The State Department did not directly blame Tehran for the rocket strikes in the Iraqi capital, but the spokesperson's statement made reference to Iranian threats in the region and past attacks by Iranian-backed militias on US interests. There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the attack.

    "The security situation remains tense and Iranian-backed armed groups remain a threat. So, we remain vigilant," the spokesperson said. Since September there have been more than 14 attacks by Iran and Iranian-supported militias on US personnel in Iraq, according to the State Department.

    The spokesperson said the State Department would not comment further on the security situation in Baghdad.
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/polit...dad/index.html
    Will the Iraqis eject US forces? Will the country fracture along ethnoreligious lines? One thing is certain: Tehran will not cease her attacks on the US and our allies, so long as the Ayatollah’s regime exists.

  11. #691

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    No source? Well it doesn't matter. If they become an autonomous state that means they are still de facto part of Iraq and ahear to Iraq's government. They can't form a theocracy.
    That's not what happened last time Americans backed Sunnni extremists.
    Yet it wasn't the US who forced the current government on Iraq. Last time i checked as per my source the protesters did mention reform and corruption in the government as the reason for their demonstrations, not the US invasion in 2003.
    Iraqis elected the current government in Iraq. Same government that wants American invaders out. Ironically, the most significant act of protests in Iraq were Iraqis almost storming the US embassy. Your anti-Iran narrative simply makes no sense when you look at what is happening in reality.

  12. #692
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    An interesting article about why the Iraqi officials object to Washington blaming the Hezbollah Brigades for the lethal attack against the military base of Kirkuk. According to their testimony, the bombing matches all the typical traits of previous ISIL attacks against Americans: It even originated from a Sunni conservative area, which is notorious for its sympathy towards ISIL and where Shiite militias would feel unwelcome. Meanwhile, the American officials not only refuse to share the confidential evidence they supposedly possess about Hezbollah's involvement, but they also rejected the offer for cooperation of the Iraqi authorities, despite standard practices.

  13. #693

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by 95thrifleman View Post
    Well it seems Trump's election plan is to start a war
    And what is the world going to do about it? Let me guess, nothing, correct?

  14. #694
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Another rocket attack in Iraq.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-51850880

    Two American soldiers and one British soldier were killed in the attacks. Looks like things could get bad again.

  15. #695

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Things are gonna get bad for Iran either way. Saudis and Russians are trying to see who can outlast who in a price war (easily Russia) and the global economy looks like it might enter a recession in the coming weeks. Both things will minimize oil revenues for Iran. Though to be fair Iran has been under a sanctioned economy for so long that they are largely self-sufficient. The regime can survive, and we might be all too busy to give Iran the attention it deserves.

  16. #696
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Iran isn't self-sufficient. Protests in Iran prove that
    They just happen to be using any and every method to stay afloat. Loans from countries like China helped.

    Combine the oil crash with the pandemic and you get a very bad scenario for Iran. And i still think a response is possible. Trump wouldn't let this one go.

  17. #697
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Another rocket attack in Iraq.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-51850880

    Two American soldiers and one British soldier were killed in the attacks. Looks like things could get bad again.
    But would shouldn't dare to respond of course.

  18. #698

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Iran isn't self-sufficient. Protests in Iran prove that
    They just happen to be using any and every method to stay afloat. Loans from countries like China helped.

    Combine the oil crash with the pandemic and you get a very bad scenario for Iran. And i still think a response is possible. Trump wouldn't let this one go.
    You can debate the definition of "self-sufficiency" but Iran has survived for 40+ years under harsh sanction regimes. They will continue to survive Trump's pressure that has butchered their trade. It's unlikely to implode and protests, as I mentioned before, are not an uncommon occurrence in Iran. It's almost a tradition at this point.

  19. #699
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    You can debate the definition of "self-sufficiency" but Iran has survived for 40+ years under harsh sanction regimes. They will continue to survive Trump's pressure that has butchered their trade. It's unlikely to implode and protests, as I mentioned before, are not an uncommon occurrence in Iran. It's almost a tradition at this point.
    The sanctions put on Iran now are the worst they have ever been. No previous administration went after Iran's oil sales like Trump has.

    https://www.newsweek.com/iran-fourth...-1491306?amp=1

    Combine that with the coronavirus and Iran's outlook is grim.

  20. #700

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Another rocket attack in Iraq.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-51850880

    Two American soldiers and one British soldier were killed in the attacks. Looks like things could get bad again.
    Iraqis already told Americans to make like trees and off. If words aren't enough, then rockets do the talking. All of this could have been avoided if Americans left years ago. Or, you know, never invaded in the first place.

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