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Thread: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

  1. #261

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Do you have a source or not? You claimed the IRGC follow orders from Iraq. Waiting on that citation.
    They fight alongside Iraqi troops and are part of same command structure. You are welcome to provide evidence to the contrary.
    My source says the IRGC was formed in 1979 to defend the Islamic Revolution in Iran, not to defend Iraq. Try again.
    See above: "Plenty of examples of countries sending volunteer units to other nations that functioned as part of those nation's military. "
    Also which IRGC units are present there?
    No you didn't. You just said i was wrong and provided no counter evidence. You definitely haven't explained why Iraqi protesters burnt down the Iranian consulate twice.
    Again, do you have any evidence that he was ousted for being pro-Iran? Like an actual objective evidence and not claims from sectarian/pro-american outlets?
    I've provided evidence you just keep ignoring it. If Iran is so popular them why did protesters burn down the Iranian consulate twice?
    This was already addressed. Again, you are desperately trying to maintain a narrative about Iran being hated in Iraq, but your only evidence is trying to interpret semantics of Iraqi Parliament demanding US troops leave.

  2. #262

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    And Iran ends its nuclear deal commitments.
    I'm always surprised when anyone thinks the "deal" would do anything to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  3. #263

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    An NPR correspondent tweeted the following,

    "This is stunning - #Iraq prime minister tells parliament US troops should leave. Says @realDonaldTrump called him to ask him to mediate with #Iran and then ordered drone strike on Soleimani. Says Soleimani carrying response to Saudi initiative to defuse tension when he was hit."

    This is disturbing if true.

  4. #264

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Odds are, Iran will attempt to negotiate a side deal with EU, Russia and China, putting everyone into awkward situation where US won't be able to enforce the sanctions without alienating its allies, or confronting China or Russia directly. This is a stalling game, trying to save face without forcing Trump's hand into full retaliation.
    The problem is, if that fails, the moment Iran gets close to actually deploying nuclear weaponry, it will become casus belli, and everyone WILL let Iran fall. Theocracies are ultimately not reliable allies or puppets if you don't share their religion, and it will not be worth the trouble. In the end, everyone around will be better off with US spending lives and money breaking Iran then putting it back together than with Iran being potential source of nuclear material for terrorists.
    Incorrect. Iran has pretty good relation with Russia and China, regardless of their religion. US and Israel have good relations with Saudi Arabia, which is much more unstable and irrational then Iran, and even are okay with Saudis acquiring nuclear weapons.
    The only powers that have a problem with Iran going nuclear are its geopolitical rivals, because Iran would be at an advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I'm always surprised when anyone thinks the "deal" would do anything to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
    That deal's goal was to help Obama create a propaganda illusion of himself being some kind of humanitarian promoter of peace. It was never meant to exist in long term or to force Iran to actually give up plans to acquire nukes.
    It was just Obama making himself look good to gullible population after 8 years of indiscriminately terrorizing North Africa and Middle East.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; January 05, 2020 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #265
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    They fight alongside Iraqi troops and are part of same command structure. You are welcome to provide evidence to the contrary.
    American troops fought along side the Iraqis too.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla...ry_Guard_Corps

    Where does it say once in that source that the IRGC are part of Iraq's command structure? I am waiting on your source as well.

    See above: "[I]Plenty of examples of countries sending volunteer units to other nations that functioned as part of those nation's military. "
    See my source above.


    Again, do you have any evidence that he was ousted for being pro-Iran
    Where did i claim the PM was ousted because he was pro-Iranian? I only said that the Iraqi protesters forced him to resign and that he happened to be pro-Iranian. Why did they oust him HH?


    This was already addressed. Again, you are desperately trying to maintain a narrative about Iran being hated in Iraq, but your only evidence is trying to interpret semantics of Iraqi Parliament demanding US troops leave.
    Why did Iraqi protesters burn down the Iranian consulate twice? I'm waiting on the explaination.

  6. #266

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    American troops fought along side the Iraqis too.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla...ry_Guard_Corps

    Where does it say once in that source that the IRGC are part of Iraq's command structure? I am waiting on your source as well.


    See my source above.
    The article you just posted doesn't even talk about Iraq.
    Where did i claim the PM was ousted because he was pro-Iranian? I only said that the Iraqi protesters forced him to resign and that he happened to be pro-Iranian. Why did they oust him HH?
    Sooo, that means no evidence that Iraqis hate Iran. Glad we finally reached reality here.
    Why did Iraqi protesters burn down the Iranian consulate twice? I'm waiting on the explaination.
    Sectarian violence happens in Middle East all the time. You yourself admitted that the only group that opposes Iran in Iraq are Sunni/Wahabi types.

  7. #267

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Incorrect. Iran has pretty good relation with Russia and China, regardless of their religion. US and Israel have good relations with Saudi Arabia, which is much more unstable and irrational then Iran, and even are okay with Saudis acquiring nuclear weapons.
    The only powers that have a problem with Iran going nuclear are its geopolitical rivals, because Iran would be at an advantage.
    I'm sorry, but if you really think that Russia and China cultivate Iran for any other reason but to be a drain on USA, you're mistaken.
    Neither Chinese nor Russia's regime are welcoming toward muslims, but their own differences are suspended only due to common enemy. But despite common saying, enemy of my enemy is an ally, not friend, and such alliances of convenience last only as they're mutually beneficial. The moment Iran becomes more trouble than worth, they'll let it fall. At best, they'll support some militias causing US trouble after the Iranian regime falls when they'll be trying to put the country back together like Iraq.

  8. #268
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The article you just posted doesn't even talk about Iraq.
    Doesn't need to. As my source says, the IRGC was formed in 1979 as a branch of the Iranian Armed Forces. Its commanders and soldiers are Iranians following orders from the Iranian government as they are part of the Iranian Armed Forces.

    Meaning your wrong. You can always post that citation to prove me wrong though. Still waiting.

    Sooo, that means no evidence that Iraqis hate Iran. Glad we finally reached reality here.
    Where did i claim Iraqis hate Iran? I am still waiting for you to explain why the pro-Iranian PM was forced to resign.

    Sectarian violence happens in Middle East all the time. You yourself admitted that the only group that opposes Iran in Iraq are Sunni/Wahabi types.
    Please quote me where i said only Sunnis and jihadist oppose Iran in Iraq. You seem to be creating a bunch of arguments against claims i never made.

    For it to be sectarian violence the Iraqi protesters would have to be Sunnis. Do you have any proof that the Iraqi protesters are only Sunnis and that it was Sunni Iraqis who burnt down the Iranian consulate twice?
    Last edited by Vanoi; January 05, 2020 at 02:28 PM.

  9. #269

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you really think that Russia and China cultivate Iran for any other reason but to be a drain on USA, you're mistaken.
    Neither Chinese nor Russia's regime are welcoming toward muslims, but their own differences are suspended only due to common enemy. But despite common saying, enemy of my enemy is an ally, not friend, and such alliances of convenience last only as they're mutually beneficial. The moment Iran becomes more trouble than worth, they'll let it fall. At best, they'll support some militias causing US trouble after the Iranian regime falls when they'll be trying to put the country back together like Iraq.
    Russians and Chinese are welcoming towards muslims that don't aim to blow themselves up because of how mulsim they are. In that since stable Iranian government seems to have long-term good relations with pretty much everyone, but US-Israel-Saudi Axis, which merely view it as a geopolitical rival. The image of Iran as some expansionist warmongering barbaric monstrosity is little more then neoconservative/globalist propaganda narrative. In reality Iran is a stable and reliable regional power that will probably end up the dominating player in Middle East, as US influences is decreasing in the region and Saduis and Israelis aren't capable of opposing it by themselves.

  10. #270
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Listen attentively.

    Trying to get a direct answer from Pompeo is an impossible task. A liar defending a liar doesn't have answers.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  11. #271

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Doesn't need to.
    Kinda does if you are claiming that IRGC isn't regarding orders from Baghdad.
    Where did i claim Iraqis hate Iran? I am still waiting for you to explain why the pro-Iranian PM was forced to resign.
    So you renounce your claim that Iraqis dislike Iran? Good.
    Please quote me where i said only Sunnis and jihadist oppose Iran in Iraq. You seem to be creating a bunch of arguments against claims i never made.

    For it to be sectarian violence the Iraqi protesters would have to be Sunnis. Do you have any proof that the Iraqi protesters are only Sunnis and that it was Sunni Iraqis who burnt down the Iranian consulate twice?
    Why else would they burn a consulate of a Shia country?

  12. #272
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Kinda does if you are claiming that IRGC isn't regarding orders from Baghdad.
    My source indicates who they take orders from. Are claiming that all Iranian Armed Forces take orders from Iraq now? I think this is the sixth or seventh time you havent proven the IRGC take orders from Iraq.

    So you renounce your claim that Iraqis dislike Iran? Good.
    Why did the pro-Iranian PM get ousted? You told me you could explain it. I'm waiting.
    Why else would they burn a consulate of a Shia country?
    Humans hate each other for a variety of reasons. You act as if all Shia in the world get along and don't hate each other. I'm waiting for your sources.

  13. #273
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Iraq prime minister tells parliament US troops should leave.
    This is disturbing if true.
    The Iraq Parliament. It is true.Post 259.
    ---
    For the record,let's go back to 2108, Trump Violates Iran Nuclear Deal That Generals Support - The Intercept

    This will make America much safer,” the president declaimed, jabbing his fingers at the assembled reporter.

    Guess who’s celebrating the president’s decision to violate a nuclear nonproliferation agreement signed by the United States less than three years ago? His new national security adviser, John Bolton, a former paid speaker for an Iranian ex-terror group who has long been obsessed with “regime change” in Tehran; the crown prince — and de facto ruler — of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, who claims Iran’s supreme leader “makes Hitler look good”; and the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, who constantly compares the Islamic Republic to the so-called Islamic State.

    Because guess who won’t be celebrating?

    The entire U.S. military establishment: Defense Secretary James Mattis, who says he has read the text of the nuclear agreement three times and considers it to be “pretty robust”; Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford, who says, “Iran is adhering to its JCPOA obligations” and a U.S. decision to quit the deal “would have an impact on others’ willingness to sign agreements”; the head of U.S. Strategic Command, Gen. John Hyten, who says, “Iran is in compliance with JCPOA” and argues “it’s our job to live up to the terms of that agreement”; and the head of U.S. Central Command, Gen. Joseph Votel, who says the nuclear deal is “in our interest” because it “addresses one of the principle threats that we deal with from Iran.”


    Those are just the generals who are still in uniform.

    In March, a statement signed by 100 U.S. national security veterans from across the political spectrum said the nuclear agreement “enhances U.S. and regional security” and “ditching it would serve no national security purpose.” Fifty of the 100 signatories were retired U.S. military officers, including leading Republicans such as retired Gen. Brent Scowcroft, who served as national security adviser to George H.W. Bush, and retired Gen. Michael Hayden, who served as director of both the NSA and the CIA under George W. Bush.


    Then there’s retired Gen. Colin Powell, national security adviser to Ronald Reagan and secretary of state under George W. Bush, who has called the JCPOA “a pretty good deal.”

    And Trump’s own former national security adviser, soon-to-be-retired Gen. H.R. McMaster, who was “working closely with two key senators to prevent Trump from destroying the Iran deal” prior to being fired and replaced with Bolton in March.


    Guess who else isn’t celebrating? The Israeli security establishment.
    Netanyahu may claim to possess thousands of “secret nuclear files” that show the JCPOA was “built on lies,” but Israel’s generals and spymasters disagree, including: the chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, Gen. Gadi Eisenkot, who says the deal “with all its faults is working”; the chair of the Israeli Space Agency and award-winning military scientist, Isaac Ben-Israel, who says “the agreement is not bad at all, it’s even good for Israel” because “it averts an atom bomb for 15 years”; the former director of the spy agency Mossad, Efraim Halevy, who says the JCPOA provides a “credible answer to the Iranian military threat, at least for a decade, if not longer”; the former chief of domestic security agency Shin Bet, Carmi Gillon, who says the nuclear agreement has helped “make the region, and the world, a safer place”; the former head of Israeli military intelligence, Amos Yadlin, who says “tearing up the deal would create a dangerous void”; and former Israeli prime minister — and the country’s most decorated soldier — Ehud Barak, who says withdrawing from the deal would be a “mistake.”
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  14. #274

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Russians and Chinese are welcoming towards muslims that don't aim to blow themselves up because of how mulsim they are. In that since stable Iranian government seems to have long-term good relations with pretty much everyone, but US-Israel-Saudi Axis, which merely view it as a geopolitical rival. The image of Iran as some expansionist warmongering barbaric monstrosity is little more then neoconservative/globalist propaganda narrative. In reality Iran is a stable and reliable regional power that will probably end up the dominating player in Middle East, as US influences is decreasing in the region and Saduis and Israelis aren't capable of opposing it by themselves.
    No, not in long term.

    Iran, Saudi Arabia and UAE are timed charges. In a few decades, maybe 50 years, as oil loses most value, they'll plunge into massive recession and become extremist spawning ground, as any country does when undergoing such massive economic crisis. That's a sociological fact. And nobody sane wants such countries to have nukes.

    That is a reason why China and Russia did support the Iranian nuclear deal. In the end, they don't want Iran to have nukes any more than US do. Nukes inIran are even more unpredictable issue than North Korean ones, and they were only allowed time to develop them because they already had conventional deterrent in form of artillery and other conventional weaponry aimed at Seoul and other South Korean cities.

  15. #275
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    The Iraq Parliament. It is true.Post 259.
    When Parliament convenes and actually passes the law the agreement ends. For the US is still in Iraq and i don't see them leaving for at least a month. Maybe 3 weeks.

  16. #276

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad


  17. #277
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...205154964.html

    Rockets landed near the US Embassy. Six people injured so far.

  18. #278

    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    My source indicates who they take orders from. Are claiming that all Iranian Armed Forces take orders from Iraq now? I think this is the sixth or seventh time you havent proven the IRGC take orders from Iraq.
    Your source doesn't say anything about IRGC units in Iraq.

    Why did the pro-Iranian PM get ousted? You told me you could explain it. I'm waiting.
    Are you claiming he was ousted because he was pro-Iranian?
    Humans hate each other for a variety of reasons. You act as if all Shia in the world get along and don't hate each other. I'm waiting for your sources.
    Sources of what, that Iraq has sectarian conflicts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    No, not in long term.

    Iran, Saudi Arabia and UAE are timed charges. In a few decades, maybe 50 years, as oil loses most value, they'll plunge into massive recession and become extremist spawning ground, as any country does when undergoing such massive economic crisis. That's a sociological fact. And nobody sane wants such countries to have nukes.

    That is a reason why China and Russia did support the Iranian nuclear deal. In the end, they don't want Iran to have nukes any more than US do. Nukes inIran are even more unpredictable issue than North Korean ones, and they were only allowed time to develop them because they already had conventional deterrent in form of artillery and other conventional weaponry aimed at Seoul and other South Korean cities.
    Iranian statehood is exponentially older then that of most "free democracies", let alone Saudis or UAE, so Iran's imminent demise claims deserve a bit of skepticism.
    Iran certainly doesn't behave like the other two either. No apocalypse will happen once Iran has nukes. American-Israeli-Saudi axis will huff and puff, but life will go on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...205154964.html

    Rockets landed near the US Embassy. Six people injured so far.

    Must be expression of sympathies Iraqis have for American "liberators".
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; January 05, 2020 at 04:20 PM.

  19. #279
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Must be expression of sympathies Iraqis have for American "liberators".
    "Katyusha rockets"

    I was expecting something a bit more grand. So far Iran is over rated. But I allow they are looking to a longer game.
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  20. #280
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    Default Re: Iraqi protesters storm U.S. embassy in Baghdad

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Your source doesn't say anything about IRGC units in Iraq.
    Doesn't need to. Them being in Iraq doesn't change they are a foreign military force. They work with the Iraq government like the Americans do. Cooperation isn't taking orders. Eigth time you haven't proven that the IRGC takes orders from Iraq.


    Are you claiming he was ousted because he was pro-Iranian?
    Why was the Iraqi PM ousted? You told me you knew the answer. What is it? I'll keep repeating my questions.

    Sources of what, that Iraq has sectarian conflicts?
    You claimed the consulates were burned down in sectarian violence. Prove it with actual evidence. Claiming it was sectarian violence because Iraq has sectarian violence isn't evidence. Iraq has violence not related to sectarianism. You need to prove it was.



    Must be expression of sympathies Iraqis have for American "liberators".
    By injuring fellow Iraqis? They sure showed America.

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