[TGC 0.98 public alpha II+patch 001] Released version 09.03.2021

[perris0707]

I did just that and it worked like a charm. Thanks much!

[AnthoniusII]

What turn do the Athanoi become available for the Romans?

0
Play and learn.
That is the purpuse of this mod.
The finall victory is to keep your state intact and your enemies destroyed in 1071! Not earlier!!!

[stevietheconquer]

thank you for the public alpha!

[Jurand of Cracow]

The finall victory is to keep your state intact and your enemies destroyed in 1071! Not earlier!!!

Is this difficult? The Romaioi seem to be all powerful, they have a decent budget surplus etc.
Is it somehow similar to the Western Roman Empire challenge in the Attila? (this a decent thing, despite very large faction at the beginning)

[Mister_Kitty]

Is this difficult? The Romaioi seem to be all powerful, they have a decent budget surplus etc.
Is it somehow similar to the Western Roman Empire challenge in the Attila? (this a decent thing, despite very large faction at the beginning)

I'm about 30 turns into the Roman Empire playthrough on VH/VH + hardest AI package, and it's easy. Public order problems are nonexistent when you can build Small Orthodox Churches in one turn. Lombards still haven't declared war on my Sicilian territories and I Crete was a pushover when I landed with a stack of Scutari-trash.

Part of the reason it's so easy is because of the OP Romanoi bodyguards; it's a 80-man cataphract unit and because of the dozens of generals you get at game start there's nothing stopping you from stacking five of them into an army and destroying everything the AI can throw at you.

I think that several factions need to be buffed. You start off at war with Crete, and they did try siege Naxos, but I was able to beat them back. They just aren't aggressive enough to compare to the powerful pirate threat the Byzantines actually faced with the Emirate of Chandax in real life. Crete needs to be buffed with a bigger navy and better armies; I'd recommend allowing for the Byzantines to only build a navy in Constantinople so it isn't as easy to rush Crete at game start.

Lombards don't start off at war with the Romans and aren't declared war on me in my 30 turns of playing. The AI is pretty much waiting for me to murder them. The Aghlabids don't start off at war with Rome at game start when they really should be hostile; they conquered most of Sicily from the Romans a couple of years before game start.

It's a really great mod, and I'm enjoying it. However, the Romans are too powerful when placed in a player's hands; cities are too developed, the population is too happy, and you start off with too many troops to rush the docile AI with.

[Mr_Nygren]

It's a really great mod, and I'm enjoying it. However, the Romans are too powerful when placed in a player's hands; cities are too developed, the population is too happy, and you start off with too many troops to rush the docile AI with.

This is actually very good in my opinion as i love when the faction i play is very strong, the population is happy (i hate revolts), the cities start developed- the general bodyguards probably shouldn't be used as armies though. I think the developers expect people to try and simulate real history.

I would agree the generals might need a nerf based on what you wrote. But if used as they are intended it makes sense for them to be that powerful.

[_Tartaros_]

to be true, i wanted to make most generals fight on foot with a tiny bodyguard, but i wasn´t successfull behind the scenes with that idea and shure, if you build up armies of generals, nothing can stop you. all this generals act as governours (not in the familytree). The AI supposed to have many generals too to counter this, but well this need finetuning.

let the other factions some time to growth, adding some negative effects isn´t the problem (needs some testing too). aghlabids are neutral, but hate the ERE - i´m not shure why they aren´t at war from the start of the campaign (must have a reason, because we researched the historical situation and preferences). after about 50-80 turns all other AI-faction start to pile up massive armies. if you get to big, the CAI runs into "kill the human player" mode and start attacking you no matter what.

[sullivanclan1]

Am I allowed to change the unit stats and the buldings in the edu and edb scripts and change the timescale and flourins in desr_stract?

[Kavhan Isbul]

Downloaded and installed, will be playing it in the coming days and reporting issues. Any special instructions for installing the additional content?

[_Tartaros_]

Am I allowed to change the unit stats and the buldings in the edu and edb scripts and change the timescale and flourins in desr_stract?

you can test it in your personal build. what do you want to change? if you are ready, send a small abstract or the ideas/reasons behind it. after all units for version 1.0 are implanted the edu-stats will get a complete overhaul to be fitting with the rest. we will need to look for OP and UP unitstats. it will be one of the last thing befor that release.

Downloaded and installed, will be playing it in the coming days and reporting issues. Any special instructions for installing the additional content?

Cool i´m eager to hear the opinions and feedback out there.
the additional content adds historical music and new fonts (fonts need additional coding in the future, because names are not showing correctly sometimes).

@ all
In the additional content is a 4GB patch. i highly recommand this to make the gameplay more stable. if you don´t now what this is look here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-can-I-get-it

it basicly makes the kingdoms.exe use 4GB instead of just 2GB Ram (this goes for all mods starting with that .exe).

[Jurand of Cracow]

to be true, i wanted to make most generals fight on foot with a tiny bodyguard, but i wasn´t successfull behind the scenes with that idea and shure, if you build up armies of generals, nothing can stop you. all this generals act as governours (not in the familytree). The AI supposed to have many generals too to counter this, but well this need finetuning.

In my opinion, the number of provinces and the ensuing number of generals with good bodyguards, is a serious balancing problem. I haven't played TGC long, just a few turns, and I fear it may break the mod as it did for the (very interesting otherwise) mod Wrath of the Norsemen - at least for me. I've written a long review of the mod (see in my sig) and analysed the problems. The relevant part is here, maybe it would provide food for thought for you.

three things that may be employed by a player to abuse the M2TW engine and the WotN mod design:
1. Hitpoints – you get a lot and you’ve go invincible general
2. Number of generals – easy way to have automatically-renewable heavy cavalry.
3. Trade treaties – easy way to get a lot of money out of AI.

Hit points: immortal generals.
My generals got many traits which add 2, 3 or 5 hit points. They’re very easily obtainable (perhaps as the generals are in the field, I haven’t delved into EDCT) and a general can get them from different traits. As you add the armor and the shield benefits of the bodyguard units the result is: many generals are close to being immortal.
A player’s exploit is simple: he just sends generals to fight. They charge against heavy spearmen and they survive long fighting. I’ve seen several times my generals surviving the battles alone or with just 1 other guy. And they would kill hundreds of the enemies. Pretty unhistorical as would want to kill (or take prisoner) a general.
A solution is a non-brainer, of course: just lower the HP bonuses in the EDCT.

Number of generals: heavy cavalry for free (or heavy infantry, if a bodyguard unit is composed of)
The problem with the hitpoints wouldn’t be so serious if there’d be few generals in the game. However, the M2TW engine offers you a new general if the number of the provinces is higher that the number of generals you’ve got at the moment. In the WotN the provinces give little income but there's plenty of them. So you can get plenty of generals. The brake is on money: their upkeep costs a lot (970 per unit for the Slavic bodyguards). As a general sucks so much money, you simply don’t allow another adoption. The result is: the number is constantly lower so the engine keeps on offering you adoption / marriage every turn. So you send your general into the heat of the battle, he fights to the last men, he kills 400 enemies, and then he dies. And… on the following turn you just agree to adopt a new one. In the gameplay it means that you get a free unit of heavy cavalry. Given how good cavalry is, it means a free best unit free-of-charge anytime you need it. But even if the general doesn’t die - his unit is automatically replenished within 2-3 turns. Again – free cavalry, no building, no recruitment needed.

I’ve used both exploits (hit points + limitless generals) in my game: for 60 turns I didn’t recruit a single unit to be used in battle (only for garrisoning) and something like 10 villages were conquered only with bodyguard cavalry units (as they have no walls you don't need any infantry). So why to have the whole beautiful bunch of units present in the mod if the master strategy is so simple?

A solution to this problem: lower the number of soldiers in a bodyguard unit and lower the costs accordingly. On Huge size: not 50 for the FL, but 20 (what would make a general’s unit consisting of 10 guys, not 25, and lower the costs by multiplying by 2/5). This would also have a side benefit that a player would employ them more often as governors of the settlements – for now a general sitting in a town is just a waste of huge money on his bodyguard (he costs 900 while he can add to the income 20 or 50, really at his best: no sane player would use a general as a governor).

Interestingly - in The Last Kingdom mod the number of bodyguard cavalry is indeed lowered: the base value is 15 riders.

[Miszel]

Solution Jurand proposes is very good, general exploit is what always made the game so easy, there is no reason to not adopt generals and send them to suicide charges (maybe thats what AI think is doing, playing meta game xD).
Higher upkeep (you can imagine it reflects the costs of keeping a mini court and retinue) way higher than unit value + lowering the number of bodyguards seems to be the way to go. But it needs testing, AI likely will be losing generals easier, or falling into economic troubles because of their upkeep.

[_Tartaros_]

good points. will going to test this

[Jurand of Cracow]

Solution Jurand proposes is very good, general exploit is what always made the game so easy, there is no reason to not adopt generals and send them to suicide charges (maybe thats what AI think is doing, playing meta game xD).
Higher upkeep (you can imagine it reflects the costs of keeping a mini court and retinue) way higher than unit value + lowering the number of bodyguards seems to be the way to go. But it needs testing, AI likely will be losing generals easier, or falling into economic troubles because of their upkeep.

For the AI costs may be easily accomodated (parameters of the AI overall income), while for losing them in battle - you may give the AI more HP, they'll be more likely to survive.

Another issue is the impact of the governors on the income of settlements. You need to give them huge bonuses (Tax +30% etc.) to make them useful as governors (I don't know the balance of public order, in some mods the most important issue is indeed that some cites with only good governors wouldn't rebel.

A player may also be deterred from adopting through some money mechanism - in the Byg's Grim Reality any new general would incurr a few thousands of florins, so adoption could be detrimental to the financial stability, so the player wouldn't adopt often.

[_Tartaros_]

they earn a trait called local governor, bosting there stats after some time in the settlement.

edit:
made the cav generals consist of 5 units and infantry generals of 15
AI-Generals get a buff of +3 hitpoints (hidden trait)

[Jale82]

I still have the 0.9.5. version, I guess 0.9.7. is not much upgraded?

[Jale82]

Am I allowed to change the unit stats and the buldings in the edu and edb scripts and change the timescale and flourins in desr_stract?

Thinking about editing first number in stat pri? For those nice missile units... You can do anything you like but it's not interesting that way.

[The Despondent Mind]

Turn 15 with Emirate of Chandax, and I get a CTD during the rebels turn...

[AnthoniusII]

NO
Generals bodyguards are a unit like all others. NO hiden advandages no hiden stats, no immortality.
TGC is a educational tool first and then a mod. If i wanted a mod like all others it would be ready 10 years ago!
All units stats are temporal , the final will be made by me and Koultouras. That was teh reason i insisted for a 2nd round closed beta.

[_Tartaros_]

Turn 15 with Emirate of Chandax, and I get a CTD during the rebels turn...

the rebel turn was finished and ctd happen during the start of chandax new turn. do besiege something? can you pload a savegame?