[TGC 0.98 public alpha II+patch 001] Released version 09.03.2021

[juanplay]

Here to report a crash. Playing as the Roman Empire turn 203. Crash happened after I eliminated the lombard faction during the rebel faction turn. Just before it crashed, the camera adjusted itself to the city of belgrade (which I control) where a diplomat was nearby.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/vqdpxv5jvxg8pzk/system.log.txt/file (System log)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/xs2pcjnvnreiosw/1.sav/file (Save File)


Edit: Just loaded a savegame before I eliminated the Lombards, the crash still happened and it seems that diplomat during the Rebels faction turn is the culprit.

[AnthoniusII]

Things that will come with the next patch.

[_Tartaros_]

nice campaign . good to see fatimids hold over former aghlabid territories + abbasids winning the war against tulunids. pechenegs and magyars have established themselfes and the smaller factions are still very much alive at this many turns. somehow southern italy and sicily are able to train crimgothic units - i need to look at this too.
regarding belgrade - thats the normal procedere if a diplomatic action is started at turnswitch. the camera is zooming to the place of action (in my turn, it switched to orsova). the crash itself is after the rebel turn, but the crashlog didn´t mention anything unusual.

Here to report a crash. Playing as the Roman Empire turn 203. Crash happened after I eliminated the lombard faction during the rebel faction turn. Just before it crashed, the camera adjusted itself to the city of belgrade (which I control) where a diplomat was nearby.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/vqdpxv5jvxg8pzk/system.log.txt/file (System log)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/xs2pcjnvnreiosw/1.sav/file (Save File)


Edit: Just loaded a savegame before I eliminated the Lombards, the crash still happened and it seems that diplomat during the Rebels faction turn is the culprit.

[basil2]

I just tried the alpha, it's amazing, good work guys!
Small things i've noticed playing around as ERE:
- there's someting wrong with stratmap settlements in the area of Kiev and it caused me CDT every time i go in that area.
- the script for Cyprus needs to be adjusted becouse it continues to pop up the message about "Abbasids invaded the island, this means war" even if i conquered the two settlements very early in the game.
- The emirate of Crete didn't attacked me at all (we started at war and now it's turn 80). They just keep to build armies in Crete.
- in general, AI is passive until turn 60, when it's too late to be a real challenge (at least for a huge empire like ERE)

[AnthoniusII]

I just tried the alpha, it's amazing, good work guys!
Small things i've noticed playing around as ERE:
- there's someting wrong with stratmap settlements in the area of Kiev and it caused me CDT every time i go in that area.
- the script for Cyprus needs to be adjusted becouse it continues to pop up the message about "Abbasids invaded the island, this means war" even if i conquered the two settlements very early in the game.
- The emirate of Crete didn't attacked me at all (we started at war and now it's turn 80). They just keep to build armies in Crete.
- in general, AI is passive until turn 60, when it's too late to be a real challenge (at least for a huge empire like ERE)

The problem is not of the strat_map models but some map areas that have4 discontinued rivers or wrong rebel scipted. Other areas such these located north of Danube when they are rebel or having rebelions.
The script already adjusted.
You must play in VH/VH dificulty . Just like TATW orifinaly ment to be played. In that dificulty in 4-5 turns Naxos will be under siege or of Crete will wait longer you will face many attacks that wont allow you replenish your guarisson .
IN VH/VH the XAI 4.1 WORKS PERFECTLY. _tartaros_ succefully combined the latest RealybadAI by Germanicu5 with BAI 4.1 ! RealybadAI in TATW has an issue that has not been solved when re-inforcements tried to eneter the field. TGC has not such issue. If the enemy has 4 armies prepair to fight with all 4 of them and if you have reserves nearby secure a place that will join your army safely. In oldest data version i had a "Battle of 5 armies" having :
2 full stack armies of mine.
3 Magyar full stack armies.
Units in medium size to allow my old PC to avoid crash.
Graphics in maximum and in HD!
The battle lasted about an hour. Because i was in defence i hided my general and two of his last soldiers in the forsest to avoid the remains of 5 units of Magyars that were seatching for me.

[_Tartaros_]

i personally think the map ctd is connected to a horde faction - pechengs or magyars - maybe some missing text line in data/text. the ctd in my experience only happens if magyars or pechenegs are horde factions. after they settled, the map-ctd is gone - at least in the last savegames i´ve checked from different players.

[Hrobatos]

I was able to restart my campaign with older save and it was quite passive till turn 80 when suddently like 6 or 8 stacks of Hungarians appered. They anhiliated Moravia and pushed Bulgarians back. It was quite a challenge. In addition to that at the same time Venetians and Langobards decided its good idea to invade me altough we dont share a border. Luckily my allies Franks decided to go to war against them..
Quite amazing campaign so far. Also no crashes since Magyars settled. Maybe issue is with them.

I find the cultures odd. How come we dont have like "normal" ones like Greek, Italian, Vlach, Slavic, Greek, Turkic, Germanic etc?

Also it would be nice to have wider selection of AoR units outside of core regions.

[AnthoniusII]

I was able to restart my campaign with older save and it was quite passive till turn 80 when suddently like 6 or 8 stacks of Hungarians appered. They anhiliated Moravia and pushed Bulgarians back. It was quite a challenge. In addition to that at the same time Venetians and Langobards decided its good idea to invade me altough we dont share a border. Luckily my allies Franks decided to go to war against them..
Quite amazing campaign so far. Also no crashes since Magyars settled. Maybe issue is with them.

I find the cultures odd. How come we dont have like "normal" ones like Greek, Italian, Vlach, Slavic, Greek, Turkic, Germanic etc?

Also it would be nice to have wider selection of AoR units outside of core regions.

The culture system replaced the old one for a number of reasons. First of all Slavs of the north had significant differences of those south of Danube since their separation and the invasion if Bulgarians and their mix with the old local people that had the roman citizenship. Italy also had a strong Roman (byzantine) influence in the people settled there. So despite the fact that Franks and Lombards were "Germans" they were quite different. In the Venetian tiny roster i will post soon you will see the mix of Lombard/Frankish and Roman equipement in their units.
Italian Militias are actually AOR units but since Romans, Lombards, Venetians and Pope are permanent settled in Italy they have them in their roster as their units.
Two north slavic units that were available everywhere in an old data , now will be available in north europe from Franks, Ottonians and Moravians.
Goths are AOR in Crimea like some Chazar units that will be added.
The AOR units that still lack is 2 units of Armenians but the Armenian roster will have 5 units to represent the Armanian uprissings.
EDIT: Remember that TGC is a historical manual. As such m certain mercenaries will be available via events in spesific dates and places.

[_Tartaros_]

there is also the difference between classical mercenaries hired in the inn buildingline and local troops that are conscripted to your ranks in the barracks. you will notice he difference if you run dry of money. mercenaries will abandon you, conscripts stay.

[Tex The Veteran]

It says that the patch 002 is "dangerous" and it doesnt allow me to download it...

[_Tartaros_]

that´s maybe because of mega.nz
some countries don´t like this site

[Hrobatos]

when can we expect to get a next version?

It would be nice to get some temporary models for strat map generals and captains. One could use officers and convert them for example.

[Hrobatos]

The culture system replaced the old one for a number of reasons. First of all Slavs of the north had significant differences of those south of Danube since their separation and the invasion if Bulgarians and their mix with the old local people that had the roman citizenship. Italy also had a strong Roman (byzantine) influence in the people settled there. So despite the fact that Franks and Lombards were "Germans" they were quite different. In the Venetian tiny roster i will post soon you will see the mix of Lombard/Frankish and Roman equipement in their units.
Italian Militias are actually AOR units but since Romans, Lombards, Venetians and Pope are permanent settled in Italy they have them in their roster as their units.
Two north slavic units that were available everywhere in an old data , now will be available in north europe from Franks, Ottonians and Moravians.
Goths are AOR in Crimea like some Chazar units that will be added.
The AOR units that still lack is 2 units of Armenians but the Armenian roster will have 5 units to represent the Armanian uprissings.
EDIT: Remember that TGC is a historical manual. As such m certain mercenaries will be available via events in spesific dates and places.

I still dont think there would have been that much difference this early on among Slavs. Besides Balkan regions could have high Roman population along Slavs and some Greeks as well along coasts and in the south and some Turks too in Bulgaria and Pannonia.

You could have Roman culture as primary of Langobards as they were romanised but have some Germanic minority in those regions and have Germanic culture for Franks as those were mostly Bavarians who were active in Italy.

I dont know, I just find current system arbitary and kind of weird.

[absinthia]

I still dont think there would have been that much difference this early on among Slavs. Besides Balkan regions could have high Roman population along Slavs and some Greeks as well along coasts and in the south and some Turks too in Bulgaria and Pannonia.

its is neither all about the Balkans nor about the Slavs you know. it was all a large melting pot of cultures, traditions and influences.
for example, the Rus had a Norse ruling elite, turned Slavic, with a great affinity for the Constantinoplean brand of Romanism. while fairly detached from Papal and Italian sphere of influence. yet Rome and Constantinople likely considered them selves equally Roman and Christian.

the Moravians were also Slavic, but heavily influenced by the Franks. the Franks in turn would to a certain degree label them selves as Roman, at least the elite, which the Moravians did not.

the Bulgars, already an amalgamation of Turks, Huns and eastern Slavs, settled in an area already populated by Avars, Slavs and Germans and eventually adopted their own flavour of christianity.

the Levant was already a good mix of formerly romanised population with a good chunk of Arabs on top.

the Maghreb also had a strata of romanised population, Berber tribes and settled Arabs.

and then Sicily, which had been thoroughly romanised for a long time had an influx of Arabs and a shift of religion as well.

while the schism between Orthodox and Catholic christianity had not yet occurred, the cracks between east and west were abundantly clear. and Islam had long since split between the major fractions of Shia and Sunni.

this is all a rather simplistic recount and not a point of debate, for that one could write a series of books. my point being that there were so many layers of identity that simply labeling a faction as either Roman, Slavic, Arab or German does not even begin to cut the cheese. one might like to put everything into neat boxes, but the reality was not so.
so the goal of the mod was to create a somewhat unique cultural identity for the factions. whether this has worked out is another matter.

You could have Roman culture as primary of Langobards as they were romanised but have some Germanic minority in those regions and have Germanic culture for Franks as those were mostly Bavarians who were active in Italy.

or were the romans Lombardised?
since the edict of Rothari and throughout the Lombard kingdom there were mainly two set of laws, Roman law and Lombard law. while certain kings tried to bridge the gap and labeled them selves kings of all Italy, others labeled themselves as king of the Romans and king of the Lombards. it might not seem like a great distinction, but the implication on cultural identity were certainly felt.
the Romans worked the fields and paid their taxes, the Lombards fought their enemies and ruled the others.

furthermore, the view of one unified Germanic culture is outrageously simplistic.
the Lombards and the Goths belonged to the east Germanic group, while the Franks belonged to the western. their respective routs into Italy and points of contact with Romans were fairly different.
again, i can not even begin to build a case for proper debate without writing a series of thick books. the point merely being that the situation were somewhat more complex than two-dimensional labels of Slavic, Germanic and Roman.

[Hrobatos]

that would depend on what does one refers to as culture, I have primarily refered is linguisticly, as I do tend to consider people whom I can speak to as closer to me than to those I cannot.

Imagine if you were a Bulgarian in Germany. Those Germans may be awesome or terrible but if you cant speak to them, then there is invisible barrier between you which stops any interaction. With say Croats or Serbs or Russians you would able to somewhat communicate with basic questions

Now one might argue that particular meal has certain origin, or particular title and so one, but language and religion are for a common person far more important as two pillars of group identity.

[absinthia]

in short, the take TGC has towards the concept of cultural identity is how the peoples saw themselves. hence there are two Roman empires.
this way one avoid an eternal flamewar over who would be the real Romans and based on what criteria. they would both be equally right or wrong.

now, it has been a long time since i worked on the mod. so even though i initially came up with the idea, i might remember it wrong and the development might have taken a different path.
unless i am mistaken cultures in M2TW is static, while religion is fluid. by using the M2TW religion scheme as a secondary culture a faction could start out something like Romano-slavic and turn Franko-slavic or even Arab-slavic.
the genetics and language of the general population would still be Slavic, but at least the ruling class would like to think of them selves as something else and cherry pick certain aspects of another culture.
and there we have the Franks, for example. it is quite unlikely that Charlemange had a drop of Roman blood in him and he did not speak a word of Latin until old age. yet he put on the guise of being Roman and styled himself Roman emperor. in his own mind he was the true Roman emperor and then other guy just a Greek with fancy shoes.

but again, my memory is rather foggy concerning this and the current developers might prove me wrong.

[Hrobatos]

this all may be true but it is Cassus Beli and not ethno-cultural identities. Currently in TGC those cannot be altered, they are as they are. I find it arbitraty, that I as Croatian faction can accress my Croatian units in "Balkan" culture ( has this term even existed in this period= ? which means in Serbia and Bulgaria but not for example in Moravia. Moravia is predominantly "European" ?
Supposedly Croatia is "Balkan" and not "European".

I am not saying this model is necceserily wrong, but seems kind of arbitrary and its certainly not clear what it is supposed to represent.

It is ofcourse the team which decided what and which way they will represent historical realities, but perhaps it would be better to use either religions, or ethno-cultural identities rather than current system. Or in very least to consider making AoR wider. Avars and Slavs or Hunns and Germans were quite foreign to each other, but still willing to cooperate.

[_Tartaros_]

no, you can´t recruit them in balkan culture. this is only one condition, how often they respawn. you can train croatian units only in croatian hearthland. Every faction has this area of recruitment for the factional troops + the elite in the capital. all the other regions provide only limited local troops or mercenaries.

for example as croatia:

in italian regions = italian levies, partly roman acontistai and lombard conscript spearman
in frankish regions = frankish conscripted spearman
in moravian regions = moravian javilmen
a.s.o.

only very late in the game, if convert the regions very significantly (which should represent intensive cultural assimilation) your fist tier factional troops become available.

[AnthoniusII]

To continue what Anshinthia started to explain. In TGC's era things were very different of what we can find the date the vanilla game starts or other mods that start in 1066.
Great Moravia started as pure Orthodox Christian and Cyril and Methodius preached there and their pupils tought the rest of Slavs. But after their defeat by the Ottonians they brutaly converted to Cathilicism after 1054 AD.
While Croats came in the balkans the same era with serbs and douzens of other slavic tribes they desided for political reasons to join the sphear of influence of the Pope. Before 1054 though and despite the many diffrences in Christinanity there was no clear separation in it. So The balkan Slavs shared a common influence. Moravians were in a different position. The Franks on the one side and the other German and Slavic non christian populations gave them a unique culture.
Not to mention that they were the 1st in central europe to have -AGAIN- steppe people invasions.
In Italy Lombards were heavily romanised but the kept their German heriatge and that shown in the pacts of Charlemagne with their King. Soon i will post the Venetian mini roster. You will see a clear mixure of Lombard/Frankish and Roman (byzantine) influences in their armors despite the fact that officialy Venice was still a Roman autonomus region.
_tartaros_ mentioned an other feature. In TGC we "desided" the obvius principal that local population simply does not disapear when it changes rulers. So in every region and conqueror has to bring his settlers and increase -via buildings- and population growth - his own culture. Untill that moment the new ruler has to rely on local population and its local warriors. Mostly peasants with few exeptions.
EDIT:
Conclusion: Untill 1054 there is only one Christianity. But Christians use their cultural heritage to add and make their own versions of it untill the great Schism.
Arabs will face the Fatimid religion revolt and invasion despite the fact that Islam was already devided. The Muslim world looked very scimilar with the feudal Japan.
Officialy there was one Chaliph and many Emirs , each one of them wanted to the the chaliph in the place of the Chaliph.
If you see our Lombard remade units preview you will see a unit that its upgrade looks too much Norman style.
Such units exist in other rosters too. So units will unlock themselves or their upgrades via historical events.
Early Norman knights must be under the Lombard and Roman influence to change their fighting style too!
Everything in TGC relies on dates and their events. You can not hire Vikingar Vikings before Rus make their 1st raid to Roman lands.
You can not have Pecheneg mercenaries before Pechenegs apear.
You can not have Magyar mercenaries before fight with them.
You can not have Norman knights mercenaries before their first land in Italy.
Magyars can not have Hungarian knights before the marriage of their King with the German Princess event.
You can not have Armenian mercs if you do not hold their lands.
The list goes on with Berbers, Beduins etc. They only thing that changes is on which ruler each mercenary unit can be available.

[Kavhan Isbul]

You can not have Magyar mercenaries before fight with them.

Are you sure about that? In my Bulgarian campaigns, Magyar foot and horse archers are available for recruitment in Inns in quite a few provinces from the very start, before any diplomatic relations with them are initiated, one way or another.