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Thread: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 002

  1. #121

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    Last edited by BlackDevilTW; January 21, 2020 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    OK, here are some more of my impressions after 100 turns of a Bulgaria campaign.

    The economy is not well balanced, and too easy for large factions. Sure, Bulgaria starts with a negative net income, but after distributing units to forts for free upkeep and building town watch buildings wherever possible (again for the free upkeep), it is not hard to get a decent net income every turn. With 25 starting regions, it is easy to maintain a couple of full stacks in the field, which allows the completion of the buffer regions quest and all the monetary bonuses it gives. There are many regions with good mining potential, but it is trade that completely throws all balance off. Towns on existing paved roads can very easily get to 4-5k per turn in income, because of the trade. By the time I got to turn 100, I had 700k+ in the treasury, and even with building expensive structures and maintaining almost full garrisons in half my settlements, I still make more than I can spend. Money allows you to buy loyal generals (just gift them estates for the +5 boost), which makes the whole campaign much easier. And apart from a few turns at the start, I have kept all taxes at normal or low. Tweaking trade down should fix that, while farming and mining should probably be slightly more important.

    The starting factions AI is very passive. Smaller factions have an especially hard time expanding, as they go bankrupt very fast and their starting armies are not sufficient for the AI to capture rebel held settlements with strong garrisons. In my campaign, Serbia took Spalato, and Venice took a couple of settlements in Italy. The Aghlabids died early (probably a dynastic line issue), and Moravia took Buda, but only after 90 turns. Emirate of Chandax managed to take Naxos, Rhodos and Corinth. They may have been able to take Athens, but I beat them to it, and their gains came at the expense of the Romans, i.e. weaker garrisons than rebels to take on. The Tulunids have not expanded at all either, and the Abbasids took a settlement in Cyprus, which triggered the war with the Roman Empire. Not sure whether the Franks expanded or not, but there are a lot of rebels on their borders still blissfully surviving in their villages. The only aggressive and fast expanding AI were the Pechenegs, and to a lesser extent the Romans, thanks to being the strongest and wealthiest faction in the game. Serbia felt especially weak, with their roster of predominantly levy units and light cavalry bodyguards - they were easier to defeat than the Bogomil uprising rebel stacks.

    Also, the AI has no diea what to do with the minor settlements. It usually leaves them empty, or every once in a while would place an army there. It obviously cannot figure out how to take advantage of the free upkeep, so this is a mechanic that is helpful to human players only - any savings the AI gets are incidental. Maybe lowering the free upkeep to one unit will fix that to a degree. The AI also does not recruit special agents is very susceptible to having spies infiltrate its settlements. One can use self imposed rules, but generally, spies are much easier to obtain and more efficient in opening gates than siege engines, so perhaps that has to be balanced somehow, by lowering the chances of successful missions or by increasing the costs and upkeep of spies significantly. I also did not notice the AI building ships. As Bulgaria, I was able to sink a few Roman ships with mercenary galleys and ladyas, and those ships were galleys as well - I have not seen a single dromon built by the Romans. In general, the AI ships sail kind of aimlessly around, not transporting troops or agents (assuming those survive the ridiculously common storms).

    The scripts are really cool, as they give the mod its flavor and enhance the historical immersion. However, I only saw two faction specific scripts for Bulgaria - the buffer regions script, and the Bogomil uprising. After that, nothing, basically back to free play. A war with the Romans did not trigger any scripts or goals. I took Constantinople (btw, the Roman AI moves its capital early on and leaves Constantinople defended by a single general as a rule) and nothing again. The ruler starts as a Tsar (should be Knyaz) and there is no quest to get the Tsar title, no quests to impose control over the Slavic areas to the West and North, take settlements from the Romans, establish a Bulgarian patriarchy or anything. Tartaros and Anthonius had mentioned that the intent is to have increasingly difficult and demanding quests starting with the Buffer Regions and going up from there, but at least I did not get them with Bulgaria.

    To sum it up, the game starts at a slow and somewhat challenging pace, with fun scripted quests, but after a few conquests and with some basic buildings built, the economy ramps up into overdrive, and the passive AI does not stand a chance. At turn 103, I had 59 regions, many of them well developed to a city (stone walls) or higher, with the strongest army and an economy that produced more treasure that I could spend even when building and recruiting at a 100% capacity. The only challenge was coming from the Magyars via the full stacks of elites that the scripts spawned, and even those are not of an existential nature, but more of a temporary devastation and annoyance. Sadly, I could not keep playing to see if a shadow faction or some other invasion, or change in AI behavior will make things more interesting again, but large factions like Bulgaria and the Romans (I assume, have not played them yet) are a bit too easy.

  3. #123

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    So far made it to turn 19. Can't play the other campaign for some reason. ctd at turn 20. Campaign map looks great! Venice does not have a banner. Can't play the custom campaign for some reason. Looking forward to see new improvements and releases. So far love the mod!

  4. #124

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    @tartaros I made some buildings and scripts for the Roman campaign, should I post some screenshots, see if you like them?

  5. #125
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    i´m thinking about bundling all the new feedback together and reset the economy + CAI traits to make it more difficult.
    also look into the magyars - they seem to have a missing text file that cause the map-ctd, a someone posted that budapest had this issues after they showed up there
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    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
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  6. #126
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    I may just hint that the CAI in the SSHIP (and Titanium as well) is quite aggressive. I have never checked the code, but from the experience it is. Eg. my 7-province strong faction was destroyed in 9 turns by doing nothing. It was not scripted, an enemy had strong armies, but what's important is decisiveness of the the CAI.
    (bear in mind that diplomatic AI is something different - and this one is after the recent changes in reputation mechanism unintentionally tame in the SSHIP)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  7. #127
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020

    good idea. i´ve also looked into piter CAI some time ago.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
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    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

  8. #128

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    I started a Chandax campaign (before the patch). What I noticed was that it is extremely hard to transport armies by sea for trips that take more than a turn or two. The storms are very common and usually result in the death of any FMs or generals on the ships (the troops stay intact though, only the ships lose men). The bigger issue is how long it takes to transport troops by sea. On land, because of the bonus generals have in movement, one can get from Constantinople to Belgrad in 2-3 seasons, and fairly safely. It takes at least 4 turns to transport an army from the southern shore of Crete to North Africa, and this is even if the general activates the movement bonus prior to boarding the ship. The chance of a storm during those 4 turns is close to 100%. I even had agents lost at sea when they ended their turn on a ship, the storm is almost automatic.

    It appears that the general's movement bonus applies to only the first turn of traveling by sea. The next turn, the bonus is gone and does not reactivate until the army is disembarked on land. On the flip side, if a general with an army spends a turn in sea, it counts as resupplying - the food starts to get depleted only after getting back on dry land. However, anything over a turn or two at sea creates a huge risk of a storm and a dead general, and it is virtually impossible to conduct sieges and win battles without a general. To get my army from Crete to Tobruk I basically had to have another ship in an open water as a sort of a decoy for storms - that worked and I was able to get my crown prince across alive.

    I am not sure that anything can be done to fix the movement issue, but maybe we can tweak the storms to have a lower chance of occurring, as they pretty much defeat any attempts at naval operations. For a faction like Chandax, it is a severe handicap.

  9. #129
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    you need to stay one turn to get the general movement bonus, this should shorten the time in the boats.
    i also always embarc my army to the next coast and go step by step.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
    872-1071
    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

  10. #130

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    Quote Originally Posted by _Tartaros_ View Post
    you need to stay one turn to get the general movement bonus, this should shorten the time in the boats.
    i also always embarc my army to the next coast and go step by step.
    This is what I do too, when possible. I take the army outside for 1 turn, then get in the boat the next turn. However, the bonus only applies for the turn during which it gets in the boat. After that, once it ends a turn in the boat, the bonus is gone.

    In the Aegean, you can do the island hop, but if you want to take an army from Crete to North Africa, there is nothing but water in between, with no options to make a stop along the way. The alternative is going down the coast starting in Anatolia and the all the way around through Syria and Egypt, which creates its own set of problems, and will take a dozen turns even if executed perfectly.

  11. #131

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    What kind of changes in TGC 0.9.7 patch001? Is it saved campaign competable?

  12. #132
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    there are minor, but important changes. a changelog can be found in the firstpost.
    it´s not savegame, because it basicly changes overall settings for XCAI and the magyars faction.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    patch 001, is in the attachement, unpack on your desktop. drag and drop the unpacked data folder into your TGC folder. Overwrithe everything when asked.

    changelog:
    patch 001 - 22012020
    gave magyars a familytree + family
    made "EE catapults" much stronger against wall (they are only used for the magyars and pechenegs scripts)
    Corrected the wall damage for siegeequipment in general (Ballistas where OP, Lithovolos are the most powerfull now)
    AI Generals are tougher now in battle
    XCAI on vh and h difficulty shift into the more aggressive mode and target human player much earlier - this should make the other factions attack bigger human factions like ERE and Bulgaria much sooner
    Forts/Minor Cities only provide 1 free upkeep instead of 3
    Aghlabids and ERE start at war from the start


    @kavhan isbul

    the scripts for other factions are mostly not done or ready. but they will be implanted as we progress with the overall mod. i keeped the bulgarian empire scripts a bit to the side, because there roster will be updated. some scripts are shared between the BGE and ERE (thessalonica markets script for example - which is not implanted in the alpha for now). so no worry, they will be more optional missions and interesting scripts for all factions.

    Island hopping should be the way anyway for naval invasions. look at the punic wars, roman civil war, belisars invasion of africa and the crusades. they all jumped from port to port and suffered big losses in storm (when not carefull enough).
    Last edited by _Tartaros_; January 24, 2020 at 03:25 AM.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
    872-1071
    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

  13. #133
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    What do you mean tougher for the generals?
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  14. #134
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    AI Generals have a hidden trait from the beginning of TGC to prevent unrealistic defection and a moralbonus for the AI armies.
    I gave them one more moral (overall ability to fight against human players) and one more hitpoint (suicidecharges).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
    872-1071
    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

  15. #135
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    Please take out the extra hit point. There is a reason WHY generals bodyguards are not the strongest units in every faction roster (all of them). It has to do with historical accuracy.
    There are moments (in history), in which a nation owes,
    if it wants to be considered as a great one, to be able to fight.
    Even without hope of winning. Just because it has to.
    Greek War motto.
    XXI Armored Brigade. Proud that served in that unit in 1996!
    "Spartans do not ask how many (enemies are) but where they are"!
    XXI Armored Brigade's motto.
    The Greek Secret (or why they will fight again if it will be necessary or why they do not sell their history).


  16. #136
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    done
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
    872-1071
    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

  17. #137
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Please take out the extra hit point. There is a reason WHY generals bodyguards are not the strongest units in every faction roster (all of them). It has to do with historical accuracy.
    The extra hit point doesn't make bodyguards stronger, but the general (one soldier in the unit) less likely to die before the other soldiers. This is much historical imo - the other soldiers would always trying to save their general. The Medieval 2 engine is not as bad as RTW, but still the generals sometimes charge and die early in the battle.
    I think for the historical accuracy purpose there should be that Hit Point.

  18. #138

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    I copied the patch into the data folder and started a new campaign with Bulgaria, also with the kingdoms.exe file patched with the 4Gb patch. So far, the game is more stable 15 or so turns in. I had one CTD, when I tried to open negotiations with a diplomat approaching a Magyar minor settlement. No CTDs when approaching armies or actual settlements, so probably a minor settlement issue. Those minor settlements also have princess speech lines when selected, which is a little funny.

    A note on Bulgarian titles. Boris I was never really a Tsar. He started as a Kanas Ubigy (or just Kan), and following the adoption of Christianity his title was Knyaz. Simeon I was the first Tsar in history, and he actually made a bid deal about the title, as he was only satisfied to be considered nominally equal in status and authority to the Basileus (a Knyaz suggests an inferior status). This has a potential to be a good quest, requiring the Bulgarian ruler to defeat Roman armies and take Roman settlements, potentially sieging/taking Constantinople before being proclaimed as a Tsar with some authority bonus attached to the title. The heir in Bulgaria was called Kanartikin instead of Prince. Not sure if any further titles are intended to be implemented in the mod, but both the Roman Empire and Bulgaria had quite a few military and administrative posts with their respective titles.

  19. #139

    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    Game works so far
    got passed turn 20 without ctd
    Still can't play any other faction for some reason
    italian merchant cavalry is missing a unit card
    Bulgaria attacked me out of nowhere
    have 6 cities

  20. #140
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [TGC 0.97 public alpha] Released version 15.01.2020 + patch 001

    Quote Originally Posted by Kavhan Isbul View Post
    I had one CTD, when I tried to open negotiations with a diplomat approaching a Magyar minor settlement. No CTDs when approaching armies or actual settlements, so probably a minor settlement issue. Those minor settlements also have princess speech lines when selected, which is a little funny.
    that´s because the name under the forts are names of an invisible princess from another faction used as token to create this name. it´s a method from gigantus (i think) 1648 mod. not sure it ctd because of the invisible princess from another faction or because of something else.

    Thanks for the reply´s that the patch is working and making the game more stable - i´m still try to track down this magyars map ctd.
    would be interesting if someone could try to play as kiev or magyars and save every turn by it´s turnnumber to see if the ctd is random or linked to something.

    used Kanartikin and Knyaz instead

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    Game works so far
    got passed turn 20 without ctd
    Still can't play any other faction for some reason
    italian merchant cavalry is missing a unit card
    Bulgaria attacked me out of nowhere
    have 6 cities
    when you are in the faction menue, you need to click one time on the faction you want to play + one time on the lombard icon to unlock them.
    btw good to hear that the game runs passed turn 20 and bulgaria attacks you (seems to be rare as Aghalbids are at war from the start and ERE is kind of a rival).
    Last edited by _Tartaros_; January 24, 2020 at 03:01 PM.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by k/t View Post
    "But I don't know how to mod!!!!"
    Learn. I didn't know how to do anything when I got this game, and now I know how to do quite a bit. Volunteer. Struggle. Figure it out.
    There are lots of cool mods that never see the light of day because people don't realize that mods need workers, not watchers, or realize it but continue to watch anyway.

    The Great Conflicts
    872-1071
    public alpha 15.01.2020
    The Great Preview 01.12.2019 + Special 06.12.2019

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