‘Today THEY are trying to catch up’: Putin says Russia surpasses all competitors in advanced weapons for the first time

[Kyriakos]

I am not at all anti-russian, however basking about your military isn't exactly first world...

[conon394]

Avangard for instance means US missile shields mean and that european nations especially the self hating slavic nations of eastern europe will pay a heavy price for whoring themselves out to die for the great satan. Avangard also means that white american 1%ers like your buddies in the Beltway get like 11 minutes to stop their pizzagate parties and repent of their sins.

As implemented the US anti missile deployments were never intended to stop Russia. Until such time as the the US deploys at a minimum 3 interceptors every soviet reentry vehicle - it did not require a Russian response.
Altogether Avanguard if deployed as a nuclear weapon is a poor move. Its use in other ways or even testing could provoke a response with very time to think. It has already pushed to the US implement hyper sonic weapons, and consider militarizing space. That is costly and destabilizing and really neither Russia nor the US will be safer.

nor Chinese HGV tech

Yep all those tests and complex ones I am so impressed by a lack of data.

[Mithradates]

I mean they visited people at homes on a weekday. Majority of people who are at home on a weekday are elderly. Hence, my point.

Table 1. Political preferences and age of respondents

age
18-24 147
25-39 498
40-54 412
55+ 582

Its not just the elderly:

Given the accessible dynamics of public opinion and the growth of Stalin's benevolent assessments, it can be assumed that a positive attitude towards the leader and his role in the history of the country was established at the level of a new social norm (previously it was mostly negative, then it was neutral, now it is positive)

[Heathen Hammer]

age
18-24 147
25-39 498
40-54 412
55+ 582

So it shows that majority are people over 40, biggest group - people over 55. So yeah, just a bunch of old Soviet boomers reminiscing about the times of their youths. Like I said, if Germans were legally allowed to speak their minds on the issue, we'd see same kind of sentiments in regards to a certain austere Austrian painter (as NYT would refer to him today).

[Cookiegod]

Only russian aircraft carrier had fire and is basically done as damage value is almost as high as residual ship value

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...uznetsov-fire/

Submarine sank even with floating dock - LOL

https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-ne...naval-base-se/
Last week SU-57 crashed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-service.html

And last not least Russian botched test of new missile? managed to kill 7 russian

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/w...ent-putin.html

- Well done, looks like russian weaponry is more dangerous to russians than to anybody else.

Oh wow. Everyone can nitpick crap without any relevance to the overall picture.
- No one expects the Russian aircraft carrier to perform well, including the Russians, so they're very stingy with cash for that one. The only reason why they keep having it is so that the know-how doesn't get completely lost, in case they ever decide to build a new one.
- Same goes for the floating dock that sunk: It's a Soviet era submarine that was never completely decomissioned and just kept around. Keep in mind that this happened in the fleetbase located in what used to be Ukraine, so the Russians aren't exactly to blame for this decay. Never mind again that this was not a U-boat being fixed or in active service. It's just one that wasn't scrapped.
- Yeah wow. A Su-57 test plane crashed, that must mean it's worthless. By that logic the F-22, F-35, Eurofighter, Rafale, etc. are all crap. Either that or just admit how disingenuous you are. Russian Flanker-Series fighter planes have their weaknesses, reliability isn't one of them.
- Yup, the new experimental engine exploded, the people weren't killed by the explosion, iirc, but drowned/froze in the cold sea. Personally not a fan of those nuclear engines, given that you can't utilise them without polluting everything, and I'm not a fan of this arms race in general. But that doesn't change the fact that the Russians have a technological edge in that regard. No other country can build this type of engine. No one should build that kind of engine in my opinion, but heck. Too many boys with the same mentality as yours around, so we have a new cold war and a new arms race.

All of which brings us back to: Oh wow.

Russia is a gas station with an army. There's a reason you don't own a Russian TV, drive a Russian car, use a Russian payment service or consume Russian entertainment. Russia creates very little. Their plans for the future lie not in building their country up, but in dragging other countries down to their level, whether through war, as in Ukraine; or through disinformation campaigns aimed at pitting citizens against each other, as they've been doing in Europe and America. Russia is an enemy, but ultimately, it's a tragedy. You can't even hate them, not the way you would al Qaeda or Nazi Germany. You can only feel sorry for them and hope for their liberation. A free and prosperous Russia would be glorious.

Anyway, it's fair to say the past month hasn't been good news for the Kremlin. Russia is locked out of international sports for 4 years, Lukashenko and Zelensky said no to Putin's demands, and the EU extended its sanctions against Russia by 6 months and announced plans to adopt a European Magnitsky Act.

Testing missiles Russia will never use is a nice show of force, but strength is a lot like silence; the more you speak of it, the less you have it. Behind the facade of a rising Russia is a decaying country ruled by a regime with an increasingly tenuous hold on power.

Realism is not your strong suit. Have you ever even stepped foot outside whatever state you live in?

Tried to implement communism. Scary thing is, there are still many people in Russia that think of it as "good old times".

Communism was brought to Russia by the Germans. Plenty of elderly people miss the Soviet Union, but that's not scary, but perfectly normal. The percentage of people missing the Soviet Union is/was higher in other postsoviet countries than in Russia, btw.
Plenty of eastern Germans miss the German Democratic Republic, so that Germany even has a word for that phenomenon: Ostalgie. That doesn't mean the Communists are waiting around the corner plotting to recreate it in a year or so. Plenty of Reagan-fans in the US and Empire-nostalgia-people in England that are much more of a problem.

Ok, a post listing advanced Russian kit and the FIRST picture is a pair of 70's era Mig-31 Foxbats?

Sure now let me show you advanced British kit using a picture of Tornado and advanced American tech using a pic of an F-16......

The MiG-31 is a very good plane for the task it has. It's an interceptor plane. None of the newer Russian (or Western) planes can perform the task better it is specialised for. So it's going to stay around. Just like with many weaponsystems in most militaries around the world the same principle applies here: Older doesn't necessarily mean worse.

If anything Russia should invest into space technology. So how goes this new russian space launch site? New Rockets? Next technology race will be about space. Claiming, mining and militarization will be big focus. China and USA are miles ahead. Multiple companies creating new rockets new techs....

Russia stands very strong in the rocket & space business. And even though the monopoly is gone, due to the Americans returning with "private", though extremely heavily government subsidised enterprises, there isn't much of a lead there, if any at all. Russia has new rockets, and e.g. SpaceX is still using old Soviet engines. With good reason. Other examples include Glonass. Neither the Europeans, nor the Chinese have so far managed to achieve parity with the US GPS. Not that it matters, given that both countries would surely vaporise the others satellite network in any significant war.

---

---

But the main problem is this: With conventional ICBMs, the flight time is still around half an hour. So if some blips appear on some radar, both militaries still have some time to think, make some calls before pressing the red button for retaliation strikes, or set off some warning sirens etc. to get people to try and find some sort of shelter. With faster missiles, any warning times are gone. This is where everything is going now. Russia, US & China are all developing those capabilities, so all three of them will have them, and we have in no small part the military build-up in the eastern European Union to thank for that. The world is irreparably being made more dangerous and there is no obvious way to fix that. The old cold war got almost hot several times, and each time it was averted because people were able to give it some thought first and then deciding not to do anything stupid. In the future, no such time will be given.

Good job, well done, GG

[Mithradates]

So it shows that majority are people over 40, biggest group - people over 55. So yeah, just a bunch of old Soviet boomers reminiscing about the times of their youths. Like I said, if Germans were legally allowed to speak their minds on the issue, we'd see same kind of sentiments in regards to a certain austere Austrian painter (as NYT would refer to him today).

Those who view Stalin with admiration, respect, or sympathy:
18-24 38%
25-39 51%
40-54 55%
55+ 56%

Even the lowest group is 38%, I highly doubt that Hitlers support amongst the Germans is 38% or higher.

Of the 1,638 people surveyed, 51% view the Communist leader positively, a big jump from the past year when 40% said the same.

The amount of people who view him with admiration, respect, or sympathy is at its highest level since the Levada Center began asking people the question back in 2001.

Its not a fading trend (as it should be if its just old peoples nostalgia), its an increasing trend, its a new social norm.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

("Soviet boomers" wtf )

[Abdülmecid I]

Not sure why these percentages are considered so surprising. In fact, I'd expect them a bit higher, but I suppose that religious piety and Kremlin domestic propaganda are quite efficient, especially among younger generations. The crux of the matter is that the comparison with Germany is a bit absurd, as neither is the Soviet Union comparable to the Third Reich nor is modern Russia comparable with Germany. During the USSR era, Soviet citizens enjoyed zero unemployment, excellent social security and a particularly efficient and equal education system, which easily resulted into an increased quality of life and reduced stress levels. Even in terms of entertainment and corruption, the Soviet Union performed remarkably better than the Russian Federation.

Frankly, the only tangible change I can think of is a greater accessibility to modern consumer goods, thanks to the generous sponsorship of foreign investors (nicely symbolised by Gorbachev eating Pizza Hut) and native oligarchs, but even this advantage only concerns the less luxurious products. The western journalists who interpret the poll data as a supposed popular desire of autocracy and geopolitical supremacy are probably either ignorant or insincere enough to perceive the USSR as some sort of a cartoonish North Korean dystopia, which Putin's and Yelchin's "parliamentarism" fortunately dismantled.

[Cope]

Not sure why these percentages are considered so surprising. In fact, I'd expect them a bit higher, but I suppose that religious piety and Kremlin domestic propaganda are quite efficient, especially among younger generations. The crux of the matter is that the comparison with Germany is a bit absurd, as neither is the Soviet Union comparable to the Third Reich nor is modern Russia comparable with Germany. During the USSR era, Soviet citizens enjoyed zero unemployment, excellent social security and a particularly efficient and equal education system, which easily resulted into an increased quality of life and reduced stress levels. Even in terms of entertainment and corruption, the Soviet Union performed remarkably better than the Russian Federation.

Frankly, the only tangible change I can think of is a greater accessibility to modern consumer goods, thanks to the generous sponsorship of foreign investors (nicely symbolised by Gorbachev eating Pizza Hut) and native oligarchs, but even this advantage only concerns the less luxurious products. The western journalists who interpret the poll data as a supposed popular desire of autocracy and geopolitical supremacy are probably either ignorant or insincere enough to perceive the USSR as some sort of a cartoonish North Korean dystopia, which Putin's and Yelchin's "parliamentarism" fortunately dismantled.

"So long as the bosses pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work"

[conon394]

Oh wow. Everyone can nitpick crap without any relevance to the overall picture.

Well to be fair the response was to Exarch presenting every proclamation from RT as the word of god with a does of of his weird racist ranting as well - there really is no easy fair measured response.

But the main problem is this: With conventional ICBMs, the flight time is still around half an hour. So if some blips appear on some radar, both militaries still have some time to think, make some calls before pressing the red button for retaliation strikes, or set off some warning sirens etc. to get people to try and find some sort of shelter. With faster missiles, any warning times are gone. This is where everything is going now. Russia, US & China are all developing those capabilities, so all three of them will have them, and we have in no small part the military build-up in the eastern European Union to thank for that. The world is irreparably being made more dangerous and there is no obvious way to fix that. The old cold war got almost hot several times, and each time it was averted because people were able to give it some thought first and then deciding not to do anything stupid. In the future, no such time will be given.

Err outside of Poland who I think one can say has some justification for being armed to the teeth if they want where is this military build up?

---------------

The crux of the matter is that the comparison with Germany is a bit absurd, as neither is the Soviet Union comparable to the Third Reich nor is modern Russia comparable with Germany. During the USSR era, Soviet citizens enjoyed zero unemployment, excellent social security and a particularly efficient and equal education system, which easily resulted into an increased quality of life and reduced stress levels. Even in terms of entertainment and corruption, the Soviet Union performed remarkably better than the Russian Federation.

Well to be honest you mean the USSR after Stalin - that is the problem. Now maybe the cost Stalin was willing to pay with other people's lives was worth in the very long assuming you were alive, and maybe a different USSR would have wilted in WW2 [Which kinda ends the debate], but I think you have to have to consider even an infant born in the last year of Stalin is what 67? To live through his entire career you be around 100. He lead the USSR to victory in WW2 and to a co equal great power with the US. Did thay cover his dark side in grade school or just the Great Patriot war.

[Mithradates]

"So long as the bosses pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work"

It was called the "unemployment inside the gate" people showed up at their workplace and did nothing for 8 hours, only useless idling, "zero unemployment" pfff hahaha commie

[Heathen Hammer]

Those who view Stalin with admiration, respect, or sympathy:
18-24 38%
25-39 51%
40-54 55%
55+ 56%

Even the lowest group is 38%,

That's still a minority. The only age group, majority of which views Stalin positively are people over 40. That's people who were born and raised in USSR and experienced chaos of 1990s, probably lost money, careers, etc.

I highly doubt that Hitlers support amongst the Germans is 38% or higher.

After Merkel's rule it wouldn't be that much surprising. But until Germany has freedom of speech, we won't have objective data on that.

Its not a fading trend (as it should be if its just old peoples nostalgia), its an increasing trend, its a new social norm.

Meh, I'd be more concerned with radical islam and cosmopolitan oligarchy in Russia, then with a bunch of aging people admiring a long-dead communist. I mean positive image of "socialist paradise" was mainly result of propaganda (both internal within USSR and Soviet-funded Western academia and Hollywood presenting socialism in general in positive way), along with hopes of "being like the West" being shattered when Western "democracies" backed Yetsin in his violent coup of 1993, that established him a dictator, while majority of population was used as piggy bank for corrupt oligarchs and their cronies.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

("Soviet boomers" wtf )

The age group?

[Mithradates]

That's still a minority. The only age group, majority of which views Stalin positively are people over 40. That's people who were born and raised in USSR and experienced chaos of 1990s, probably lost money, careers, etc.

After Merkel's rule it wouldn't be that much surprising. But until Germany has freedom of speech, we won't have objective data on that.

Its people over 25, not 40. Also being nostalgic about the USSR isnt the same as being nostalgic about a genocidal maniac who murdered millions of his own people.
Russia is trying to rebrand Stalin as a positive historical figure of victory and patriotism, they are revriting history, thats why he is getting popular.

, I'd be more concerned with radical islam and cosmopolitan oligarchy in Russia, then with a bunch of aging people admiring a long-dead communist. I mean positive image of "socialist paradise" was mainly result of propaganda (both internal within USSR and Soviet-funded Western academia and Hollywood presenting socialism in general in positive way), along with hopes of "being like the West" being shattered when Western "democracies" backed Yetsin in his violent coup of 1993, that established him a dictator, while majority of population was used as piggy bank for corrupt oligarchs and their cronies.

The age group?

Boomers are the stereotypical baby boomers who were born between 1946 and 1964 and ruined the world for the millennials etc. its a western world thing, doesnt really makes sense in the case of Soviet Russia.

[conon394]

Boomers are the stereotypical baby boomers who were born between 1946 and 1964 and ruined the world for the millennials etc. its a western world thing, doesnt really makes sense in the case of Soviet Russia.

True. But as Gen X - obligatory eye roll is required for having to listen both of them whine all the time - my sarcasm and cynicism will keep me warm at night without a pension or health care (most of the the time).

[Love Mountain]

I don't see any US countermeasures against that, let alone any of the other America killers in Russia's arsenal. Quite a poor result from the world's biggest military spender. American taxpayers ought to be asking themselves what the hell they're going without affordable infrastructure, medicine and schooling for, if they can't at least feel superior with the best weapons on the planet.

Given that most of the twc posters aren't taxpayers, the latter is a moot point anyhow.

Avangard and Zircon are answers in search of a question. There are two issues with Avangard off the top of my head;

1. They are tactical weapons, but they are of strategic nature.
2. It doesn't do anything about boost phase interception, which is the biggest ICBM vulnerability anyway.

If you launch Avangard, you are triggering MAD, and current Russian ICBMs are more than sufficient (and already operational...) for that role. This makes the whole point of Avangard questionable. What's the point of advertising a superweapon when you already possess hundreds of them that have been tested for decades and are still extremely effective? Propaganda obviously. Avangard also shares the biggest weakness that all ICBMs have, they are vulnerable to boost-phase interception. Now, this does not mean that Avangard is worthless. Quite the contrary, the experience Russia will gain with hypersonic weapons, will obviously be applicable to non-strategic weapons. Zircon is actually far more "dangerous", but it's not here yet. First, its release date is supposedly in the mid 2020s. Second, its testing out a bunch of new technologies. Scramjets, hypersonic glide vehicles, and everything that makes those things work. I am very skeptical of just how well these things will work, and its not Avangard and Zircon we should be worried about, its about Avangard and Zircon 3.0 or 4.0.

In short, these new Russian weapons are going to be important stepping stones towards something truly fearsome, and Russians have made excellent weapons before, especially when they've had time to perfect them. Exhibit A: Kornet ATGMs, probably the most battle-tested modern ATGM. So yes, Avangard and Zircon will probably lead to something great.

Hell, Russian weapons are so good at killing that even NATO spear carrier, Turkey would prefer to use Russian weapons than inferior Anglo American weapons:

For a bit of context, Turks are central asian descendants who are wannabe europeans and so they are the perfect candidate for NATO's nazi like aspirations in dominating eastern europe. Better that turks die than the pure white aryan races of western europe. Turks, who form the bulk of NATO's armymen, are supposed to soak up Russian bombs and bullets so the white anglo americans can swoop in and declare victory and steal all the glory ala ww2.

Can you please rephrase this in a way that I can understand?

Only russian aircraft carrier had fire and is basically done as damage value is almost as high as residual ship value

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...uznetsov-fire/

Submarine sank even with floating dock - LOL

https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-ne...naval-base-se/

Last week SU-57 crashed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-service.html

And last not least Russian botched test of new missile? managed to kill 7 russian

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/w...ent-putin.html

- Well done, looks like russian weaponry is more dangerous to russians than to anybody else.

Lol, these stories are pretty funny, but fact remains that Russia is capable and does produce good armament. For all the criticism you can lob at Russian defense industry, you can make a lot of criticisms about the European and American defense industries as well. They all have their own share of mishaps or utter failures. To be honest, considering the Russian economy, their relatively recent revitalization, and their results, I think it's quite respectable. Projects in the West have failed with far more resources than Russia.

Between an economy that's about as unequal as the US and political oppression, it's not too surprising that nobody wants to live there.

They don't.

[Exarch]

As implemented the US anti missile deployments were never intended to stop Russia.

That's simply not true; throughout the 2000s and 2010s, the ABM system was first and foremost about protecting american 1%er paedophiles from Russian nuclear tipped justice, rather than the pathetic iranian nuclear program at the time.

Thankfully, these russian weapons systems have now restored the fear of god in white americans.

You know what the real tragedy of all of this is? It's that some russians wanted to become a part of NATO as equals, rather than the slave colony that white americans wanted russia to be, as janissaries like the turks to fight and die for white anglo supremacy:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9264246.html

Now, the Russians have thrown their lot in with the greatest civilisation the human race has ever known: China.

[conon394]

That's simply not true; throughout the 2000s and 2010s, the ABM system was first and foremost about protecting american 1%er paedophiles from Russian nuclear tipped justice, rather than the pathetic iranian nuclear program at the time.

No it was not and it was nor has ever been deployed or potentially deployed in any way that would impact MAD with Russia - unless the Russians had a fantastically low opinion of their ICBM readiness and effectiveness.

Politically it was stupid, I would agree since it just pushed Russia to react and has now produced a current and future serious of counter reactions that make us all less safe.

Thankfully, these russian weapons systems have now restored the fear of god in white americans.

Err always had the fear you count the number of close calls, mishaps, accidents and last minute 'its really geese' incidents over the cold war... All Putin has done is reduce the reaction time in the system and made everyone else do the same. I feel neither less or more fear but just a senses of apathy that we are moving back toward a world that gave us the Cuban missile event and a lot time to react with both plans being total because of it.

You know what the real tragedy of all of this is? It's that some russians wanted to become a part of NATO as equals, rather than the slave colony that white americans wanted russia to be, as janissaries like the turks to fight and die for white anglo supremacy:

With out article V it would be window dressing anyway - looks like an ex pols thing to write their history before they die. What is your thing about Turkey anyway. They have no security concerns thay did not join NATO willingly? Aside from Korea (a UN mandate not NATO) I am rather unclear on any other time the Turks died for an Anglo-America lead venture.

Now, the Russians have thrown their lot in with the greatest civilisation the human race has ever known: China.

Matter of opinion, personalty I would chose historically Athens but hey I dislike oligarchy. And technically got to say Sumerians have the bragging rights on first so that makes China derivative. Standard of living looks better in Rome at the time, and of course to be a silly as you this

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...March_2017.jpg

Looks like the west wins the President for life of China is dressed in Western Fashion.

(of course that last point is intentional silly sarcasm)

[Heathen Hammer]

Its people over 25, not 40. Also being nostalgic about the USSR isnt the same as being nostalgic about a genocidal maniac who murdered millions of his own people.
Russia is trying to rebrand Stalin as a positive historical figure of victory and patriotism, they are revriting history, thats why he is getting popular.

Who do you mean by "Russia"? Russian government has consistently funded production of movies and documentaries that state the opposite. Putin himself said he views 1917 events rather negatively.
It has more to do with spite and nostalgia then some conspiracy to generate admiration for a long-dead socialist war criminal.

Boomers are the stereotypical baby boomers who were born between 1946 and 1964 and ruined the world for the millennials etc. its a western world thing, doesnt really makes sense in the case of Soviet Russia.

People were born in Russia between 46 and 64 as well.