Overpaid Bureaucrats

[conon394]

Missed that thanks Gaidin

Where I live, people have responsibility for trimming their own trees if they are protruding onto other people's property or public property. If they don't the city will do it but charge them for it.

So if people don't make this professional judgment on their own you do admit the city has to do it and you know might just not want joe bob a billy bob to hack away with a chain saw if thay those branches are hanging over private property or could damage something or to do it in a way that if possible does not kill the tree?

[B. W.]

Try waving that around on fenced in government property.

And just why would I want to go trim trees on government property?

Missed that thanks Gaidin



So if people don't make this professional judgment on their own you do admit the city has to do it and you know might just not want joe bob a billy bob to hack away with a chain saw if thay those branches are hanging over private property or could damage something or to do it in a way that if possible does not kill the tree?

If a tree's branch is hanging over on your property you have the right to cut off the offending branch. That law goes back to the original Roman Republic's twelve tables. It is established law.

On your other post:
Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now.
entitlement


Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.en·ti·tle·ment

(ĕn-tīt′l-mənt)n.1. The act or process of entitling.
2. The state of being entitled.
3. A government program that guarantees and provides benefits to a particular group

[conon394]

A government program that guarantees and provides benefits to a particular group

But its not is it. It is a specific part of a persons employment contract that is different. Or maybe you think all wages for public employees are entitlements. Perhaps we should just use volunteers?

If a tree's branch is hanging over on your property you have the right to cut off the offending branch. That law goes back to the original Roman Republic's twelve tables. It is established law.

And if its a public tree branch hanging over public space like a road?

Again you cited the article, you look up how many Chicago tree trimmers out the total make the so called exorbitant over pay. But you won't will you just like the outrage of a bullet point.

Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now.

Dude not sure where you are going. If you arguing about the definition of Entitlement that would be a vocabulary argument - not grammar. Otherwise as I said before I don't get paid for this. I do care about my posts and do try to check them. But after a severe concussion one thing I surprisingly can't do well anymore without effort is match what I think I am typing to what I type all the time.. Seeing as this is a hobby/diversion to post here and again something that makes me no money like the work I am doing on my other monitor, politely f-eck off on that unless you have a specific grammar question about a post with a post number rather than 'on your other post' which one?

[Bob69Joe]

"Swamp" and "Deep State" are ways of mentioning that the government has become a business that serves itself to fund itself and employ preferred people. Let's revisit the French Terror and decide that the starving peasants really did kill the goose that laid the golden eggs by massacring the top ten percent of the bell curve in their day and raising up people to positions of authority that standardized culture and made it commercial.

Look at these salaries, and this is due to laws in place that are practically untouchable unless you want to face massive lawsuits and the destruction of your social standing, e.g. we don't talk about Civil Rights and Affirmative Action. It doesn't require a great imagination to wonder what all the regulation from government is doing for the economy and urban demographics. We don't have to blame anyone except ourselves for continuing to kick the voting can down the road as welfare, entitlements, taxes, lawsuits, and companies raise their prices. What we see happening, if we really care to look, is that companies are going overseas and to illegals to bypass unions and regulations, plus all of the tax burden and civil lawsuits of discrimination against them force them to hike up their prices.

Bottom line, too many bureaucrats you say, then the government has to be reduced along with a century of legislation.

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=divers...d+inclusion&l=

[conon394]

Let's revisit the French Terror and decide that the starving peasants really did kill the goose that laid the golden eggs by massacring the top ten percent of the bell curve in their day and raising up people to positions of authority that standardized culture and made it commercial.

What????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You do realize how piss poor the life of the French Peasant was sorry they had no golden egg just turds dropped on them from on high. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong in what you mean.

Look at these salaries

Which ones for whom doing what?

Perhaps among all the people working for governments you might be more clear - who is a bureaucrat. Evey government employee? Some ? Which ones?

and regulations

Your right i desperately want the air quality of a typical Chinese or Indian city and hay maybe my daughter can work in fire hazard or unsound fabric sweatshop factory and die in a fire (because the doors are chained shut) or when it collapses - regulations who needs them - next quarter profits baby of course not for anyone outside off the top 5%

[Bob69Joe]

Thanks for proving that hierarchy trumps equality once more. The ability to distinguish, discriminate, and qualify other humans is the role of leadership, and the French did away with that through a starving tantrum by murdering thousands of leaders in society and still starved afterwards.
Having the ability to be a leader means seeing things as they are, not worrying about the Chinese getting their air quality under wraps before their disgusting overpopulation crashes.

[B. W.]

But its not is it. It is a specific part of a persons employment contract that is different. Or maybe you think all wages for public employees are entitlements. Perhaps we should just use volunteers?



And if its a public tree branch hanging over public space like a road?

Again you cited the article, you look up how many Chicago tree trimmers out the total make the so called exorbitant over pay. But you won't will you just like the outrage of a bullet point.



Dude not sure where you are going. If you arguing about the definition of Entitlement that would be a vocabulary argument - not grammar. Otherwise as I said before I don't get paid for this. I do care about my posts and do try to check them. But after a severe concussion one thing I surprisingly can't do well anymore without effort is match what I think I am typing to what I type all the time.. Seeing as this is a hobby/diversion to post here and again something that makes me no money like the work I am doing on my other monitor, politely f-eck off on that unless you have a specific grammar question about a post with a post number rather than 'on your other post' which one?

Sorry about that. I wasn't aware of your disability. I actually didn't include it in my copy/paste. It just showed up. I thought about deleting it, but I've had difficulty in reading some of your posts so I thought it might help. Once again, My apology. I don't intentionally insult people here or in real life. I know the anonymity gives some people the incentive to be insulting, but I'm not one of those.

As far as the rest, you're not seeing the real problem. The wages are in fact a contributor, but they can be changed. The pensions on the other hand are an obligation that can cripple a city budget.

and on; the city doesn't need an entire department devoted to tree trimming. If a difficult case comes up, it can be contracted to a professional. This shouldn't be hard to figure out and yet democrats are unable to grasp the concept. It the reason so many democrat run cities are in trouble.

[Bob69Joe]

It is not a cynical position to appreciate that those seeking power are doing so for the sake of control. Whereas cultures and the hierarchy inborn to a people tied to their land was the natural and godly state of order, egalitarian ideology is only permissive to less of quality leadership. It is a hubris, pride, inherent to Western Indo-Europeans attempting to make other people think and act the way they do, but having made themselves dissolute through expansion and loss of internal vision of why life and civilization must be placed at a higher value than individual experiences which concerning stoicism and many Roman and Greek thinkers has their fault solely in themselves, but pursue ideology of equality out of spite to transcend their personal conditions.

Politicians have been destroying social standards for centuries in a quest to have no standard, thus no hindrance to establishment of their authority. Re: French Terror, the Equality and Rights of the Citizen.

[Gaidin]

and on; the city doesn't need an entire department devoted to tree trimming. If a difficult case comes up, it can be contracted to a professional. This shouldn't be hard to figure out and yet democrats are unable to grasp the concept. It the reason so many democrat run cities are in trouble.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...rimstatus.html

You’re telling me Chicago shouldn’t do that?

[Love Mountain]

It's been well established that B.W. doesn't know what he's talking about. City administration is hardly a trivial matter, even for a small town. While one can find instances of "waste" or "inefficiency" virtually anywhere and everywhere, that's because running a society is hard. As Gaidin elegantly demonstrated, even something as trivial as tree trimming presents a challenge and requires considerable resources to run and maintain. Nevermind the complexities of social services, infrastructure, and courts.

[B. W.]

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...rimstatus.html

You’re telling me Chicago shouldn’t do that?

The City of Chicago is $28 billion light on its pension fund payments. having a Bureau of Forestry to trim trees that should be handled by Roads and Grounds and the Parks and Recreation departments is not the path to financial solvency.

It's been well established that B.W. doesn't know what he's talking about. City administration is hardly a trivial matter, even for a small town. While one can find instances of "waste" or "inefficiency" virtually anywhere and everywhere, that's because running a society is hard. As Gaidin elegantly demonstrated, even something as trivial as tree trimming presents a challenge and requires considerable resources to run and maintain. Nevermind the complexities of social services, infrastructure, and courts.

Hahaha! I saw how "elegant" that was...mistaking a power easement for city property was really elegant. Hahaha!

[conon394]

and on; the city doesn't need an entire department devoted to tree trimming. If a difficult case comes up, it can be contracted to a professional. This shouldn't be hard to figure out and yet democrats are unable to grasp the concept. It the reason so many democrat run cities are in trouble.

You know in the silly small 'red' run town I live in thought that way about snow removal a couple years ago after a string of extremely mild winters. Equipment and facilities hardly used for 2 years why are we paying for that? Good so end it all - lay off the experienced crews and loose the equipment and facilities. Next 3 winters have been snowy. The cost of contracting has been in excess of the budget bill for the cut staff and equipment every year and vastly so in the really bad winter 2 years ago. And of course the quality of work has declined since fewer people are doing less and covering less roadway less often. Better yet contractors have a nasty habit of running into vehicles (mostly they are out of town and have a poor sense of the streets) adding settlement fees.

The wages are in fact a contributor, but they can be changed

They should why? Municipalities have to compete in the marketplace for people, what other reality do you want.

More important I still need to understand what you think a bureaucrat is. Do really just mean anyone employed by any public entity in any capacity?

and on; the city doesn't need an entire department devoted to tree trimming

You still have failed to actually prove you have pored over the data for Chicago and tree trimming.

But worry not I got little online work in the last 48 hours so

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Admin...rent/atdi-52tt

So the department of Streets and Sanitation has on my count 95 Tree Trimmers. They are hourly and listed at a typical week of 40 hours. Wage rate is 27.20 - 38.87. So assuming you bullet point is based on accurate data and is rolling benefits) I really don't the issue with an experienced person making with overtime and say opting for holiday and weekend work the figure you cited - given what you find for private sector employment. America is not exactly a country of fit farm people ready to be in the hoplite militia. How many people tapping away here are fit and able to climb a tree or be in a aerial work platform and operate a chain saw and do it effectively and efficiently without mishap or accident or injury? Do so when its below zero or at 100 degrees?

The wage as I posted earlier is simply a competitive wage for an experienced trimmer in a high cost of living area - again

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Tree+T...8aAm7_EALw_wcB

Now benefits are not counted, but than again they don't show up for private sector job postings either.

The City of Chicago is $28 billion light on its pension fund payments. having a Bureau of Forestry to trim trees that should be handled by Roads and Grounds and the Parks and Recreation departments is not the path to financial solvency.

But it is already just a section of DSS Department of Streets and Sanitation.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept.../forestry.html

So Chicago manages its pensions poorly - again that is typical for almost everyone who offers them. They should be managed better but they still make sense for a municipality that enforces residency requirements. They still remain not an entitlement but a form of deferred compensation and means to employee retention.

[B. W.]

You know in the silly small 'red' run town I live in thought that way about snow removal a couple years ago after a string of extremely mild winters. Equipment and facilities hardly used for 2 years why are we paying for that? Good so end it all - lay off the experienced crews and loose the equipment and facilities. Next 3 winters have been snowy. The cost of contracting has been in excess of the budget bill for the cut staff and equipment every year and vastly so in the really bad winter 2 years ago. And of course the quality of work has declined since fewer people are doing less and covering less roadway less often. Better yet contractors have a nasty habit of running into vehicles (mostly they are out of town and have a poor sense of the streets) adding settlement fees.

Wow! All that happened while you were waiting on global warming to take effect. Don't worry it will all work out. They said ten years ago that global warming will be unstoppable in ten years so you only have five more years to go..oh wait, they've said that ten year thing several times now so you'll just have to wait it out.

They should why? Municipalities have to compete in the marketplace for people, what other reality do you want.

More important I still need to understand what you think a bureaucrat is. Do really just mean anyone employed by any public entity in any capacity?



You still have failed to actually prove you have pored over the data for Chicago and tree trimming.

But worry not I got little online work in the last 48 hours so

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Admin...rent/atdi-52tt

So the department of Streets and Sanitation has on my count 95 Tree Trimmers. They are hourly and listed at a typical week of 40 hours. Wage rate is 27.20 - 38.87. So assuming you bullet point is based on accurate data and is rolling benefits) I really don't the issue with an experienced person making with overtime and say opting for holiday and weekend work the figure you cited - given what you find for private sector employment. America is not exactly a country of fit farm people ready to be in the hoplite militia. How many people tapping away here are fit and able to climb a tree or be in a aerial work platform and operate a chain saw and do it effectively and efficiently without mishap or accident or injury? Do so when its below zero or at 100 degrees?

The wage as I posted earlier is simply a competitive wage for an experienced trimmer in a high cost of living area - again

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Tree+T...8aAm7_EALw_wcB

Now benefits are not counted, but than again they don't show up for private sector job postings either.



But it is already just a section of DSS Department of Streets and Sanitation.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept.../forestry.html

So Chicago manages its pensions poorly - again that is typical for almost everyone who offers them. They should be managed better but they still make sense for a municipality that enforces residency requirements. They still remain not an entitlement but a form of deferred compensation and means to employee retention.

I'm glad you took the time to show private sector wages for tree trimming. They're making less money by ten or fifteen dollars an hour, plus they don't get a city funded pension. So that means Chicago, a city in financial trouble, is paying their employees higher than private sector wages and giving them a generous pension.

Your solution is hoping that the people responsible for the mess can find a way out of it. History has shown that isn't very likely.

[conon394]

Wow! All that happened while you were waiting on global warming to take effect. Don't worry it will all work out. They said ten years ago that global warming will be unstoppable in ten years so you only have five more years to go..oh wait, they've said that ten year thing several times now so you'll just have to wait it out.

Funny thing weather is not climate. And I was talking about precipitation not the actual temperature. Fact is the locals will tell the odd thing is you can now more often than not get by with a sweater into and up to December. In any case your just contract it thing has issues. When you suddenly need contract help on a city wide scale its a good bet so do other cities in same place be it tornado damage or snow and thus the private sector is going to make you pay.

I'm glad you took the time to show private sector wages for tree trimming. They're making less money by ten or fifteen dollars an hour

I glad you did not (apparently) read the list.

Only one job on the first page falls near your range - in Greenville Texas. And even then you are understating it. But say be a journeyman trimmer for Arborworks inc and Chicago seems to hitting the mark for tree trimming in and expensive area to live (*).

You can follow the links from you OP link why do a bit work yourself what does a tree trimmer get in Boone Iowa?

So that means Chicago, a city in financial trouble, is paying their employees higher than private sector wages and giving them a generous pension.

So this is basically factually incorrect - the wages thing. Also of course private sector workers lack a residency requirement. So say for what ever reason I was a tree trimmer for the City of Chicago sucks for my wife with her new degree in plant breeding because all her career jobs would be on the west side of DeKalb with either Pioneer or Monsanto sucky long commute particularity in the winter no chance to split the different in terms housing location without loosing a good job.

Do the math and counting -scrape every wage wage on the Indeed site and and defend your argument with actual data based point

--------

* "Job Description

ArborWorks is one of the premier utility vegetation management companies operating from Central to California to Southern Oregon. We pride ourselves in offering our employees a quality of life that is second to none. We have established a culture deeply rooted in safety and production. We have a great passion for our craft and are always on the lookout for strong team members. If you are a self-starter and have the passion for arbor care/ line clearance and are looking for a great company experience, we welcome the opportunity to speak with you. We have a great passion for each and every employee that we have on our team and are constantly looking for motivated individuals to join. We offer careers not jobs!

Qualifications:

LIne Clearance Qualified - Must provide proof
Drivers License

Benefits:

Competitive Pay
Health Ins
Union Retirement
Paid Vacation

Job Type: Full-time

Salary: $35.41 to $39.66 /hour

Additional Compensation:

Commission"

Looks the they pay better than Chicago actually.

But I suppose as you see it sure sweet home Chicago only hires c-grade hacks.

Your solution is hoping that the people responsible for the mess can find a way out of it. History has shown that isn't very likely.

Too bad you think my solutions are actually implemented. Because if thay were the board of Boeing and its chief officers would all be jail right now for murder... but that is not going to happen so I see no reason the general kick the can down the road mentality of pension management in the enter economy is a particular problem with respect to some as yet by you undefined 'bureaucrats'.

But back to Boeing have you considered the cost you pay for the chief Boeing to be fired but still make millions of dollars doing it (aside from the bit where you are not on 737 max). What exactly do think would happen to a tree trimmer in Chicago if he or she was fired for cause? Oh wait if you are rich enough you don't get fired for cause, sorry I forgot, just like at wework - capitalism at its most grotesque. But god help us we can't mange to sustain a system were you put 30 years fricking cleaning sewers you get a solid pension.

[B. W.]

Funny thing weather is not climate. And I was talking about precipitation not the actual temperature. Fact is the locals will tell the odd thing is you can now more often than not get by with a sweater into and up to December. In any case your just contract it thing has issues. When you suddenly need contract help on a city wide scale its a good bet so do other cities in same place be it tornado damage or snow and thus the private sector is going to make you pay.



I glad you did not (apparently) read the list.

Only one job on the first page falls near your range - in Greenville Texas. And even then you are understating it. But say be a journeyman trimmer for Arborworks inc and Chicago seems to hitting the mark for tree trimming in and expensive area to live (*).

You can follow the links from you OP link why do a bit work yourself what does a tree trimmer get in Boone Iowa?



So this is basically factually incorrect - the wages thing. Also of course private sector workers lack a residency requirement. So say for what ever reason I was a tree trimmer for the City of Chicago sucks for my wife with her new degree in plant breeding because all her career jobs would be on the west side of DeKalb with either Pioneer or Monsanto sucky long commute particularity in the winter no chance to split the different in terms housing location without loosing a good job.

Do the math and counting -scrape every wage wage on the Indeed site and and defend your argument with actual data based point

--------

* "Job Description

ArborWorks is one of the premier utility vegetation management companies operating from Central to California to Southern Oregon. We pride ourselves in offering our employees a quality of life that is second to none. We have established a culture deeply rooted in safety and production. We have a great passion for our craft and are always on the lookout for strong team members. If you are a self-starter and have the passion for arbor care/ line clearance and are looking for a great company experience, we welcome the opportunity to speak with you. We have a great passion for each and every employee that we have on our team and are constantly looking for motivated individuals to join. We offer careers not jobs!

Qualifications:

LIne Clearance Qualified - Must provide proof
Drivers License

Benefits:

Competitive Pay
Health Ins
Union Retirement
Paid Vacation

Job Type: Full-time

Salary: $35.41 to $39.66 /hour

Additional Compensation:

Commission"

Looks the they pay better than Chicago actually.

But I suppose as you see it sure sweet home Chicago only hires c-grade hacks.



Too bad you think my solutions are actually implemented. Because if thay were the board of Boeing and its chief officers would all be jail right now for murder... but that is not going to happen so I see no reason the general kick the can down the road mentality of pension management in the enter economy is a particular problem with respect to some as yet by you undefined 'bureaucrats'.

But back to Boeing have you considered the cost you pay for the chief Boeing to be fired but still make millions of dollars doing it (aside from the bit where you are not on 737 max). What exactly do think would happen to a tree trimmer in Chicago if he or she was fired for cause? Oh wait if you are rich enough you don't get fired for cause, sorry I forgot, just like at wework - capitalism at its most grotesque. But god help us we can't mange to sustain a system were you put 30 years fricking cleaning sewers you get a solid pension.

I read the list. You didn't. Many of those companies pay less than $20/per hour. That's far below the rate Chicago pays. The company you picked out is a company that operates exclusively in high voltage power line easements. That's the reason it pays so well.

And you mentioned Boeing. Boeing's pension is in good shape. That is the IAMAW union that is 85% funded. The company doesn't control or pay the pension benefits. The union does and the workers pay into their own fund and have it managed.

The situation with Boeing's management team is another matter altogether. They made bad choices and should be fired.

[Bob69Joe]

According to Minding the Campus, Penn State University’s Office of Vice Provost for Educational Equity employs 66 staff members. The University of Michigan currently employs a diversity staff of 93 full-time diversity administrators, officers, directors, vice provosts, deans, consultants, specialists, investigators, managers, executive assistants, administrative assistants, analysts and coordinators. Amherst College, with a student body of 1,800 students employs 19 diversity people. Top college diversity bureaucrats earn salaries six figures, in some cases approaching $500,000 per year. In the case of the University of Michigan, a quarter (26) of their diversity officers earn annual salaries of more than $100,000. If you add generous fringe benefits and other expenses, you could easily be talking about $13 million a year in diversity costs. The Economist reports that University of California, Berkeley, has 175 diversity bureaucrats.

Diversity officials are a growing part of a college bureaucracy structure that outnumbers faculty by 2 to 2.5 depending on the college.

Democracy duped us all, voters we. It turns out that expecting to get something done is going to require cadres of bureaucrats. Take that Napoleon!

https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2020/01/01/colleges-dupe-parents-and-taxpayers-n2558704

[Gromovnik]

This Williams fellow is BSing a bit. Anyway, I thought you would support something like that?