Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 77

Thread: Overpaid Bureaucrats

  1. #41
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    They should have been managed better, but again as I pointed out Industry does the same.

    So what are you really concerned about? The way companies and cites and states all poorly manage their pension funds? That means nobody should be able to work toward that security in retirement if it was part of their job offer? That municipal or state or federal employees should be paid less for reasons not elaborated? Or just that you don't like the DMV and want fixed somehow cheaply - maybe municipal slaves under the threat of the lash?
    If you're comparing private industry with the public sector then you comparing apples and oranges. If a private sector fund goes south the taxpayers aren't on the hook for it; just ask the teamsters about that one.

    Somebody is going to have to pay the piper for these lavish benefits plans. You can try and justify them all you want with irrelevant arguing points, but that won't solve the problem. The root cause is public sector unions. Take a look at what California is facing:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...sion-unfunded/

    And it's all related to public sector unions and the coddling by politicians who want their vote.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    If a private sector fund goes south the taxpayers aren't on the hook for it; just ask the teamsters about that one.
    You're right. Nobody is. Sorry BW. This is again, a losing argument for you. Private companies buy out of their pensions. Why? Because they can. States? They can not yet do that. That lets you whine and moan.

    That is the only difference.

    Find a better argument.

    Thanks Trump.
    Last edited by Gaidin; January 06, 2020 at 08:19 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  3. #43
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    You're right. Nobody is. Sorry BW. This is again, a losing argument for you. Private companies buy out of their pensions. Why? Because they can. States? They can not yet do that. That lets you whine and moan.

    That is the only difference.

    Find a better argument.

    Thanks Trump.
    As usual you're painting with too broad a brush and as usual you're wrong. First of all, the link you embedded is primarily directed at auto workers unions who had the companies provide the retirement payments to the retirees. Those contracts were negotiated in the glory days when the US companies dominated the market.

    Not all pension plans are paid by the company. Some are funded and managed by the unions themselves through members contributions.

    As far as states go, there is no safety for pensioners there either if the state defaults. The pensioners simply won't receive the payments they were promised. The is a long legal history for this:

    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/04/17...pension-plans/

  4. #44

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    As usual you're painting with too broad a brush and as usual you're wrong. First of all, the link you embedded is primarily directed at auto workers unions who had the companies provide the retirement payments to the retirees. Those contracts were negotiated in the glory days when the US companies dominated the market.

    Not all pension plans are paid by the company. Some are funded and managed by the unions themselves through members contributions.

    As far as states go, there is no safety for pensioners there either if the state defaults. The pensioners simply won't receive the payments they were promised. The is a long legal history for this:

    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/04/17...pension-plans/
    Here's the thing. Congress disagrees with you.

    https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...prospects.aspx

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/10/cong...-security.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/12/b...gislation.html

    https://www.investmentnews.com/artic...on-by-year-end

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-...em-11576780736
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  5. #45
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,225

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    And it's all related to public sector unions and the coddling by politicians who want their vote.
    Pensions existed before the unions in the public sphere.

    Their development sort of mirrored the rise in the privates sector

    https://pensionresearchcouncil.whart...2-3714-5-1.pdf

    Note the mention of Rome at the start I can see the heading of your flyer in forum - why should Gaius Longus get a muster out pension that allows him to buy a fine farm property just outside of pompeii what's he done - over paid soldier wasting tax money on the Rhine for 20 years.
    Last edited by conon394; January 08, 2020 at 08:17 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #46
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Please copy and paste the specific language from those articles that deals precisely with city and state public pensions. I looked through them briefly and didn't notice any.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Pensions existed before the unions in the public sphere.

    Their development sort of mirrored the rise in the privates sector

    https://pensionresearchcouncil.whart...2-3714-5-1.pdf

    Note the mention of Rome at the start I can see the heading of your flyer in forum - why should Gaius Longus get a muster out pension that allows him to buy a fine farm property just outside of pompeii what's he done - over paid soldier wasting tax money on the Rhine for 20 years.
    You want me to read a book? How about keeping the reference links down to just articles. The may prove to be interesting and I might get back to reading it if I have time, but using it as a source is a bit too much for this forum.

    Try copying and pasting the particle paragraphs from the book that you think apply and we'll start from there.
    Last edited by B. W.; January 08, 2020 at 12:19 PM.

  7. #47
    Centenarius
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    865

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    The lament about the bad morals of the Youth and the complaining over overpaid Bureucrats seem to be the two songs that accompany civilication through all times and in every country.
    If the Life of the ordinary civil servant is sooo easy and he is soooo overpaid, why don`t join our special circle? We don`t bite, give us enough coffee and everything is fine.

    I don`t feel particular overpaid, well payed yes, but surely not overpaid.
    The distribution of the money in the puplic sector can (and should be) criticized. In my opinion alot of the lawyers in the german puplic sector are superflous and to high paid, while the IT-Guys and the Engineers are paid to low.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    The lament about the bad morals of the Youth and the complaining over overpaid Bureucrats seem to be the two songs that accompany civilication through all times and in every country.
    If the Life of the ordinary civil servant is sooo easy and he is soooo overpaid, why don`t join our special circle? We don`t bite, give us enough coffee and everything is fine.

    I don`t feel particular overpaid, well payed yes, but surely not overpaid.
    The distribution of the money in the puplic sector can (and should be) criticized. In my opinion alot of the lawyers in the german puplic sector are superflous and to high paid, while the IT-Guys and the Engineers are paid to low.
    Fellow public sector worker here. The "lazy gubmint stooge" meme is, I think, pure envy and spite from those who aren't good enough to get the public jobs. I've worked public and private, and some of the private workers were the laziest, dumbest screw ups I've ever known. People who struggled with very basic concepts like "You can't do meth on your break or come to work so out of it on opioids that you fall asleep on your feet.", or just took every opportunity to shove their work onto someone else while they did nothing. I have never seen that kind of behavior ever since I started working a pubic sector job.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Fellow public sector worker here. The "lazy gubmint stooge" meme is, I think, pure envy and spite from those who aren't good enough to get the public jobs. I've worked public and private, and some of the private workers were the laziest, dumbest screw ups I've ever known. People who struggled with very basic concepts like "You can't do meth on your break or come to work so out of it on opioids that you fall asleep on your feet.", or just took every opportunity to shove their work onto someone else while they did nothing. I have never seen that kind of behavior ever since I started working a pubic sector job.
    Anybody who worked in the public sector vs private sector will be able to tell you that there are a lot of differences between the two. Not better or worse, just different. That said, at times I do wish government work moved faster, innovated more, and in general, was more efficient. Things often can't fundamentally change because nobody can be bothered to argue with higher-ups, who are sometimes elected officials completely detached or uninformed on what public administration and services need.

    Similarly, the private sector can be similarly obstinate and choose short-term gains or some corporate for the sake of an white-collar executive power trips or simple greed. One of my first jobs was as an analyst for a telecom company. There was a cell signal blind spot in the same city for over 12 years in a fairly dense suburban area. It's right by my house so I was pretty annoyed and looked it up. I did the research and due diligence, and honestly there was absolutely no reason why that spot was there. The contractors could set it up for a reasonable price, the area was on a hill, barely any foilage, pretty heavy usage in adjacent towers as well. So next to no reason why that blind spot should be there... I've reported such cases before and the company typically makes an effort to cover such holes in coverage in a timely manner.

    Imagine my surprise when I was politely told to off. It's probably close to 20 years now instead of 12. I still drive through that spot and it's still completely dead.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Anybody who worked in the public sector vs private sector will be able to tell you that there are a lot of differences between the two. Not better or worse, just different. That said, at times I do wish government work moved faster, innovated more, and in general, was more efficient. Things often can't fundamentally change because nobody can be bothered to argue with higher-ups, who are sometimes elected officials completely detached or uninformed on what public administration and services need.
    Similarly, the private sector can be similarly obstinate and choose short-term gains or some corporate for the sake of an white-collar executive power trips or simple greed. One of my first jobs was as an analyst for a telecom company. There was a cell signal blind spot in the same city for over 12 years in a fairly dense suburban area. It's right by my house so I was pretty annoyed and looked it up. I did the research and due diligence, and honestly there was absolutely no reason why that spot was there. The contractors could set it up for a reasonable price, the area was on a hill, barely any foilage, pretty heavy usage in adjacent towers as well. So next to no reason why that blind spot should be there... I've reported such cases before and the company typically makes an effort to cover such holes in coverage in a timely manner.
    Imagine my surprise when I was politely told to off. It's probably close to 20 years now instead of 12. I still drive through that spot and it's still completely dead.
    Let's talk about the USDA for a moment. There used to be a little box marked "Rural Development"(I'm not even sure if it exists anymore) in USDA. The function was simple: to channel low-interest-rate loans and grants to towns with fewer than fifty thousand people in them. The department ran a $220 billion dollar bank that serviced the poorest of the poor with needed loans. Amazingly, they nearly always repaid their loans.

    Half the job is vetting the rural America. The other half is one long unglamorous road trip. Not like they'd go to NYC. They'd go to Minco, Oklahoma. Everywhere, two flights minimum with two hours drive. On the other end was a town in dire need of a health center, or housing, or a smalll business. The USDA would give 40,000$ for the health clinic and most people are unknowingly like ', this makes a difference'.

    The USDA's loans are typically made through local banks. The people on recieving ends were often unaware of where the money was coming from. Many people were proud to have done it on there own. The USDA goes to introduce herself, and he says, "So who are you?". "I'm the USDA person." He asks, "What are you doing here?" They say, "Well, sir, we supplied the money you're announcing." Guess who was white as crap.

    It gets that way when you blow up a check that says UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. But hey. That's where the money comes from. You either take it or you go broke. Let's be honest. Our government wants our people to succeed.

    But I guess some people have...pride.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  11. #51
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,225

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Let's talk about the USDA for a moment. There used to be a little box marked "Rural Development"(I'm not even sure if it exists anymore) in USDA. The function was simple: to channel low-interest-rate loans and grants to towns with fewer than fifty thousand people in them. The department ran a $220 billion dollar bank that serviced the poorest of the poor with needed loans. Amazingly, they nearly always repaid their loans.

    Half the job is vetting the rural America. The other half is one long unglamorous road trip. Not like they'd go to NYC. They'd go to Minco, Oklahoma. Everywhere, two flights minimum with two hours drive. On the other end was a town in dire need of a health center, or housing, or a smalll business. The USDA would give 40,000$ for the health clinic and most people are unknowingly like ', this makes a difference'.

    The USDA's loans are typically made through local banks. The people on recieving ends were often unaware of where the money was coming from. Many people were proud to have done it on there own. The USDA goes to introduce herself, and he says, "So who are you?". "I'm the USDA person." He asks, "What are you doing here?" They say, "Well, sir, we supplied the money you're announcing." Guess who was white as crap.

    It gets that way when you blow up a check that says UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. But hey. That's where the money comes from. You either take it or you go broke. Let's be honest. Our government wants our people to succeed.

    But I guess some people have...pride.
    Still about

    https://www.rd.usda.gov/

    -------------------------------------

    @ BW

    You want me to read a book? How about keeping the reference links down to just articles. The may prove to be interesting and I might get back to reading it if I have time, but using it as a source is a bit too much for this forum.

    Try copying and pasting the particle paragraphs from the book that you think apply and we'll start from there.
    I hope you do read books. But in point of fact I went out of my way to find the introductory chapter and quick history summary. 12 pages is not the end of the world. Given the level of not facts in the intellectually incurious OP link I think 12 pages is not an undo request.

    Have you for example delved into the double link Data Base to see how many 'tree trimmers' in Chicago out of the total made over 6 figures and under what circumstances and at what seniority or management level?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #52
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Let's talk about the USDA for a moment. There used to be a little box marked "Rural Development"(I'm not even sure if it exists anymore) in USDA. The function was simple: to channel low-interest-rate loans and grants to towns with fewer than fifty thousand people in them. The department ran a $220 billion dollar bank that serviced the poorest of the poor with needed loans. Amazingly, they nearly always repaid their loans.

    Half the job is vetting the rural America. The other half is one long unglamorous road trip. Not like they'd go to NYC. They'd go to Minco, Oklahoma. Everywhere, two flights minimum with two hours drive. On the other end was a town in dire need of a health center, or housing, or a smalll business. The USDA would give 40,000$ for the health clinic and most people are unknowingly like ', this makes a difference'.

    The USDA's loans are typically made through local banks. The people on recieving ends were often unaware of where the money was coming from. Many people were proud to have done it on there own. The USDA goes to introduce herself, and he says, "So who are you?". "I'm the USDA person." He asks, "What are you doing here?" They say, "Well, sir, we supplied the money you're announcing." Guess who was white as crap.

    It gets that way when you blow up a check that says UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. But hey. That's where the money comes from. You either take it or you go broke. Let's be honest. Our government wants our people to succeed.

    But I guess some people have...pride.
    Whataboutism. The thread is about pension problems in some US states and cities.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Still about

    https://www.rd.usda.gov/

    -------------------------------------

    @ BW



    I hope you do read books. But in point of fact I went out of my way to find the introductory chapter and quick history summary. 12 pages is not the end of the world. Given the level of not facts in the intellectually incurious OP link I think 12 pages is not an undo request.

    Have you for example delved into the double link Data Base to see how many 'tree trimmers' in Chicago out of the total made over 6 figures and under what circumstances and at what seniority or management level?
    Well, in fact, I did breeze through it and didn't find anything particularly helpful. That's the reason I asked you to identify the specific paragraph that pertains to the discussion as it relates to today's problem with certain US cities. Perhaps you missed the language you were intending to include.

    As far as the tree trimmers, you're missing the point entirely. If cities are in financial straits they can't afford such luxuries until they get their financial house in order. At some point, the debt service on these entitlements will require the elimination of any city tree trimming service and yet the taxpayer will still be paying for it. How do you justify that?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Whataboutism. The thread is about pension problems in some US states and cities.
    This is you not understanding the intricate connection between everything. Brownback lowered Kansas taxes to near 0 when he was governor only to see the State system collapse under his nose because the state couldn't afford anything. The more people have jobs the more money local, state, and federal governments get through their work and the better the country is able to support the people. If the state system collapses to nothing ala Kansas, they sure as hell aren't paying the pensions, much less supporting current jobs for current residents, like, you know, teachers for current children.

    This is a hard thing for you to process, but, sometimes, government programs are good.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  14. #54
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,225

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Well, in fact, I did breeze through it and didn't find anything particularly helpful
    The key point is there is no particular correlation between public sector pensions and public sector unionism. Most of them of course occurred in the grand era of US economic ascendancy when polities and corporations in the US needed an answer to communism.

    As far as the tree trimmers, you're missing the point entirely. If cities are in financial straits they can't afford such luxuries until they get their financial house in order.
    They are a luxury? Better tree limbs fall and ill people in storms.

    At some point, the debt service on these entitlements will require the elimination of any city tree trimming service and yet the taxpayer will still be paying for it. How do you justify that?
    What entitlement are you talking about?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    They are a luxury? Better tree limbs fall and ill people in storms.
    I like how he also has no problem with tree branches falling on power lines and causing district wide damage and outage. Taking care of that would require use of this:



    to handle things in an environment like this:



    and this:

    Last edited by Gaidin; January 10, 2020 at 03:39 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #56
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    This is you not understanding the intricate connection between everything. Brownback lowered Kansas taxes to near 0 when he was governor only to see the State system collapse under his nose because the state couldn't afford anything. The more people have jobs the more money local, state, and federal governments get through their work and the better the country is able to support the people. If the state system collapses to nothing ala Kansas, they sure as hell aren't paying the pensions, much less supporting current jobs for current residents, like, you know, teachers for current children.

    This is a hard thing for you to process, but, sometimes, government programs are good.
    I see. You have a new theory on how the universe works, but you just can't find the words to explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The key point is there is no particular correlation between public sector pensions and public sector unionism. Most of them of course occurred in the grand era of US economic ascendancy when polities and corporations in the US needed an answer to communism.
    They are a luxury? Better tree limbs fall and ill people in storms.



    What entitlement are you talking about?
    Public pensions are entitlements. The pensions were negotiated by the public sector unions. If you can't see the relation, I can't help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I like how he also has no problem with tree branches falling on power lines and causing district wide damage and outage. Taking care of that would require use of this:



    to handle things in an environment like this:



    and this:

    Once again you don't know your facts. Those power line easements are taken care of by the power company. When you pay your power bill, the cost for that is included in your bill. The city has nothing to do with it.

    Where I live, people have responsibility for trimming their own trees if they are protruding onto other people's property or public property. If they don't the city will do it but charge them for it.

  17. #57
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,225

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Public pensions are entitlements. The pensions were negotiated by the public sector unions. If you can't see the relation, I can't help you.
    They exited before unions and are a form of deferred compensation. Like any pension offered by any entity. You bet on trusting the entity to manage well and be able to hire accountants and actuarial talent and investment mangers you can't for disputed risk. I don't see the entitlement. I'm not sure I see you hostility to public sector unions.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #58
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bayou country
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    They exited before unions and are a form of deferred compensation. Like any pension offered by any entity. You bet on trusting the entity to manage well and be able to hire accountants and actuarial talent and investment mangers you can't for disputed risk. I don't see the entitlement. I'm not sure I see you hostility to public sector unions.
    Liberal "thought" processes never cease to amaze me. When your assets to cover liabilities are at 40% percent and you can't cover current operating expenses the end result of what is going to transpire is obvious. You can't tax your way out of that situation.

  19. #59
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    13,225

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Liberal "thought" processes never cease to amaze me. When your assets to cover liabilities are at 40% percent and you can't cover current operating expenses the end result of what is going to transpire is obvious. You can't tax your way out of that situation.
    Well there is a lot there. It still seems your argument is with mismanagement on the factual basis. But then it veers off into disliking unions and calling pensions entitlements. They are not the last. Thay are in fact tool to prevent employee turnover which can be costly. For municipalities that have residency requirements for employment something not to be ignored in a USA of all working families. That the organizations that manage them typically assume the best in all cases (public or private) is not really a reason to doubt or dislike them. On the public side maybe stop electing supply side fools like Brownback (Kansas) or Engler (Michigan) and those funds would not be underfunded.

    You still have not changed your OP title to 'the problem with public sector pensions in the post Regan era of US tax for ever...' So the core still seem still does stand as you seem to feel somehow 'Bureaucrats' are c grade rejects who are supposed to supply you with great service at what less than wally mart wages. And I suppose the DMV is supposed to what camera watch the office and pay less when its massively overstaffed office for lunch time is doing nothing at say 8-9am?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    Where I live, people have responsibility for trimming their own trees if they are protruding onto other people's property or public property. If they don't the city will do it but charge them for it.
    Try waving that around on fenced in government property.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •