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Thread: Overpaid Bureaucrats

  1. #1
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Like the "made men" of mobster fame these folks are practically impossible to fire once they've made through a probationary period. The article mentions that it is a particular problem in Democratic party controlled cities and states, but it, in fact, carries across party lines. These cities and states pay huge retirement pensions and when these people retire they often times move away from those areas that have made them wealthy (Unfortunately, they like to move near me because the taxes and cost of living is less than their home turf. I can't hardly walk down the street without meeting one of them).

    Lots of Democratically run cities and states are in trouble financially and these retirees are a further drain on finances when they take the money and run. So, here's the question, "Do you think these retirees should be required to spend at least a portion of their retirement years in the locality they retired from before they move away to greener pastures?" Keep in mind that their retirement pensions were based on the cost of living in the city they retire from.

    If you have any other ideas I'd like to hear them. Also, why do you think people keep voting for this nonsense? For instance, just check the salaries for the City of Chicago. Its annual payroll comes to about 3 billion dollars. Is it a good return on the money?

    To see how much the bureaucrats in your city make, just click on the link embedded in the article:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...the_dough.html

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    To be fair, those problems start once you have that low unemployment as USA has. I was talking to a friend that was telling me many sectors have trouble feeling in the positions they require and they bend over backwards for the employees trying to find incentives.
    USA has 6 million unemployed people and more open jobs than unemployed people. Unqualified people are hired because there are not enough qualified people.

    Try to lower the salaries of bureaucrats and the employees will simply leave and they need them.

    In general, I am against reintroducing limited serfdom. Freedom of movement is a very important right.

    This problem should be addressed in the next economic crisis. Once unemployment raises above 5% etc reduce salaries of bureaucrats instead of laying them off and increasing unemployment etc.
    It could also be addressed by ... hiring immigrants! You know, the legal ones. Go bring some immigrants that have finished high-school or something and give them some low jobs to increase your potential pool
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    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    To be fair, those problems start once you have that low unemployment as USA has. I was talking to a friend that was telling me many sectors have trouble feeling in the positions they require and they bend over backwards for the employees trying to find incentives.
    USA has 6 million unemployed people and more open jobs than unemployed people. Unqualified people are hired because there are not enough qualified people.

    Try to lower the salaries of bureaucrats and the employees will simply leave and they need them.

    In general, I am against reintroducing limited serfdom. Freedom of movement is a very important right.

    This problem should be addressed in the next economic crisis. Once unemployment raises above 5% etc reduce salaries of bureaucrats instead of laying them off and increasing unemployment etc.
    It could also be addressed by ... hiring immigrants! You know, the legal ones. Go bring some immigrants that have finished high-school or something and give them some low jobs to increase your potential pool
    There may be some truth to that rationale, but if you take the City of Chicago for instance I'm pretty sure they could get someone to fill the position of Aviation Commissioner for far less than the current salary of $400,000.00 per year.

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    There may be some truth to that rationale, but if you take the City of Chicago for instance I'm pretty sure they could get someone to fill the position of Aviation Commissioner for far less than the current salary of $400,000.00 per year.
    I am not as sure. Simply put there are probably openings in big air companies that would siphon out the talent in that sector by offering 1M$ per year. So, you would end up with a bad Aviation commissioner.
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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    There may be some truth to that rationale, but if you take the City of Chicago for instance I'm pretty sure they could get someone to fill the position of Aviation Commissioner for far less than the current salary of $400,000.00 per year.
    Really what are the requirements and qualifications needed?

    Buy hey don't worry BW the private sector has got you covered.

    Preside over the 737 MAX fiasco and you can leave with all this when you are shown the door:

    According to Boeing’s proxy filing in April, Muilenburg has accrued pension benefits worth just over $12 million per year.
    In addition, he’s entitled to walk away with $6.6 million in severance pay and another $32 million from various performance awards.

    In April, Muilenburg already owned nearly 176,000 Boeing shares from previous stock awards, worth about $59 million at today’s share price."
    "

    You might think he would be fired for cause and loose the severance but of course not that might indicate liability. When you screw up in the corporate world nobody really rips your epaulets off .

    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...is-muilenberg/

    Also some small town type potions include a significant amount of extra work. The local prosecutor in for the rural county I live in have to serve as the constant legal advisor to every board in the county (the county has an attorney but the prosecutor is expected to rotate the work load). That's a long meeting sitting around listing to a 6 or 7 hour argument while two business owners drag out a meeting on zoning just so you can remind the board they really don't have legal jurisdiction even if the one of guys is a friend of the board chair. If you just when through the number of cases he has to actually work he might well look overpaid. Add all the actual time and legal work he does however and its not so clear that is the simple story of some overpaid bureaucrat.
    Last edited by conon394; December 24, 2019 at 08:51 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Really what are the requirements and qualifications needed?

    Buy hey don't worry BW the private sector has got you covered.

    Preside over the 737 MAX fiasco and you can leave with all this when you are shown the door:

    According to Boeing’s proxy filing in April, Muilenburg has accrued pension benefits worth just over $12 million per year.
    In addition, he’s entitled to walk away with $6.6 million in severance pay and another $32 million from various performance awards.

    In April, Muilenburg already owned nearly 176,000 Boeing shares from previous stock awards, worth about $59 million at today’s share price."
    "

    You might think he would be fired for cause and loose the severance but of course not that might indicate liability. When you screw up in the corporate world nobody really rips your epaulets off .

    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...is-muilenberg/

    Also some small town type potions include a significant amount of extra work. The local prosecutor in for the rural county I live in have to serve as the constant legal advisor to every board in the county (the county has an attorney but the prosecutor is expected to rotate the work load). That's a long meeting sitting around listing to a 6 or 7 hour argument while two business owners drag out a meeting on zoning just so you can remind the board they really don't have legal jurisdiction even if the one of guys is a friend of the board chair. If you just when through the number of cases he has to actually work he might well look overpaid. Add all the actual time and legal work he does however and its not so clear that is the simple story of some overpaid bureaucrat.
    The requirement in Chicago is that you have to be a friend or relative of the Mayor or one of his aldermen. I suspect that aviation in Chicago would do just find if there were not a commissioner to sign off on paperwork.

    But never mind that, how do you justify these other examples?


    • Tree trimmers in Chicago lopped off $106,000.
    • New York City school janitors cleaned off $165,000 while out earning the principals at $135,000.
    • Lifeguards in Los Angeles County, California, made up to $365,000.
    • In the small school district in Southlake, Texas (8,000 students), the school superintendent earned $420,000.


    Bear in mind that their retirement comes close to their annual salary which adds to the drain on city finances.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The requirement in Chicago is that you have to be a friend or relative of the Mayor or one of his aldermen. I suspect that aviation in Chicago would do just find if there were not a commissioner to sign off on paperwork.

    But never mind that, how do you justify these other examples?


    • Tree trimmers in Chicago lopped off $106,000.
    • New York City school janitors cleaned off $165,000 while out earning the principals at $135,000.
    • Lifeguards in Los Angeles County, California, made up to $365,000.
    • In the small school district in Southlake, Texas (8,000 students), the school superintendent earned $420,000.


    Bear in mind that their retirement comes close to their annual salary which adds to the drain on city finances.
    Let the record reflect that bw has posted no actual job requirements asked for nor has he replied to how much the private sector pays their failures.

  8. #8
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Tree trimmers in Chicago lopped off $106,000.


    I will justify that when you drill down and tell me you read the actual data for source not a comment on it.

    I might but I would have to waste my holiday time and register and do the search. But... a couple thoughts.

    The Red state arch conservative berg town I live in cut its public workers a couple years back who were skilled at removing dangerous tree limbs. The ones that hang over traffic for example. Got rid rid of the equipment as well. Result 3 years latter more damage claims settlements than they had paid the employees for a decade and that excludes the expense of having to hire a private service now.

    Chicago is a city with a high cost of living if you want a skilled employee you are going to pay.

    Need to be able to operate the equipment. Not drop something on private property, climb trees, ...

    Indeed dot.com says that salary is potential in the private market.

    https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Tree+T...8aAm7_EALw_wcB

    There at least 2 in this range (example below)

    Tree Climber/Trimmer/Arborist
    TreeNewal LLc
    Dallas-Fort Worth, TX
    $55,000 - $100,000 a year

    A couple more with a 30-40 dollar an hour range that puts you at 70,000 - 78,000 assuming the Federal standard for no overtime, no bonus pay, weekend work or anything else (*). And how are we calculating this pay anyway 401K additions, benefits?

    So is the job what is the job description for these Chicago derisively labeled 'Tree trimmers' anyway - you don't know. How many years experience? What job exactly. How many? All , everyone I doubt it. Were they all fired what is the cost of contracting the alternative?

    This site

    https://work.chron.com/tree-climber-paid-14724.html

    Puts the top 10% at a national average (inflation adjusted from their 2011 data) at 56,000. But consider most jobs in the industry are in rural areas. Steven county WA has a lot tree trimmers and their cost of living is rather lower than Chicago.

    * which means you can easily likely get to over 100,000 if you like working sick and take every overtime opportunity.

    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #9
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    The requirement in Chicago is that you have to be a friend or relative of the Mayor or one of his aldermen. I suspect that aviation in Chicago would do just find if there were not a commissioner to sign off on paperwork.

    But never mind that, how do you justify these other examples?


    • [FONT="]Tree trimmers in Chicago lopped off $106,000.[/FONT]
    • [FONT="]New York City school janitors cleaned off $165,000 while out earning the principals at $135,000.[/FONT]
    • [FONT="]Lifeguards in Los Angeles County, California, made up to $365,000.[/FONT]
    • In the small school district in Southlake, Texas (8,000 students), the school superintendent earned $420,000.


    Bear in mind that their retirement comes close to their annual salary which adds to the drain on city finances.
    O_O
    These salaries are indeed huge. Except from Lifeguards I think.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    O_O
    These salaries are indeed huge. Except from Lifeguards I think.
    He had a bit of focus on a hilariously expensive city in Chicago. Make your judgement:

    https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_l...linois/chicago
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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Lifeguards in Los Angeles County, California, made up to $365,000.


    See the problem here is when abstracted through the lens of the politically motivated (and ideologically biased) American Thinker you loose any perspective.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/life/li...al-lifeguards/

    So a few senior management 'life guards' do make a lot of money adding up all possible compensation and seemingly those earning overtime and special hours pay. And in one of the most ridiculously expensive states in the US on the water front.

    I like the last bit


    “I supervised 13 (or) 14 engineers when I was working, and I was making $111,000 when I retired three years ago with an MBA and a technical-engineering degree,” said Musgrave, who doesn’t have a pension. “I mean, come on! All you have to do is look at good-looking women at the beach. I mean, they shouldn’t even get paid! I’d do it for 10 percent of that pay.”

    Really at any point in one of you TPS meetings did one of you supervisory staff pull you to your death while you made you way to the office coffee machine (*)? Really supervised that many engineers at no pension or savings at only bit over a 100,000 K. Sorry I am married to a family of a ton a civil engineers. Corporate and consulting if you are supervising that many solid degrees and PE engineers you are making more (benefits again - OK no pension but no 401 K???). "technical-engineering degree" does not impress me in a comment either you have and engineering degree or not and why no mention of having a PE (or maintaining it)? So you have somebody who maybe got BS in some engineering field (with what GPA?) and than coasted into management with an MBA (not really an impressive degree) but running over 14 engineers as appropriately defined I doubt it.

    * https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-rescuers...ive-1680233920

    I am sure office guy is in great shape and can you swim fast and drag an overweight American out of the water.
    Last edited by conon394; December 26, 2019 at 07:27 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Thing is. I’m just not sure BW cares about cost of living math unless it’s his own.

  13. #13
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Thing is. I’m just not sure BW cares about cost of living math unless it’s his own.
    No doubt. But where is the thread on over paid board members. The ones at Theranos or Enron for example they were doing what corporate governance for their checks again, because I missed it.

    Or how about a another fine example of the market system

    https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/...on/1867197001/

    I am sure the owner was shocked to find so many illegals worked for him. No economic advantage at all to have people not ever going to report to OSHA, or join a union, nope not one bit of short term next quarter thinking. Who knew Illegals were so devilishly clever at producing fake documents. Why is Adam Neumann getting a now north of 2 billion dollar golden parachute because he was a good con man?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    No doubt. But where is the thread on over paid board members. The ones at Theranos or Enron for example they were doing what corporate governance for their checks again, because I missed it.

    Or how about a another fine example of the market system

    https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/...on/1867197001/

    I am sure the owner was shocked to find so many illegals worked for him. No economic advantage at all to have people not ever going to report to OSHA, or join a union, nope not one bit of short term next quarter thinking. Who knew Illegals were so devilishly clever at producing fake documents. Why is Adam Neumann getting a now north of 2 billion dollar golden parachute because he was a good con man?
    Theranos and Enron I find particularly interesting because it's BW's overpaid bureaucrats charging them with fraud for stringing the private sector along, filing false paperwork, and other forms of BS.
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  15. #15
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    New York City school janitors cleaned off $165,000 while out earning the principals at $135,000.


    a reply

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-new-york-post-and-the-dollar140000-janitors

    You know back in the day around 1985 my father managed to earn around 150,000 dollars. He was a tool and die maker (and locksmith and machinist, and just about other rating he could get the man practically lived at night school for a decade [although I will admit I kinda loved all the time I got to spend in university libraries as child care growing up]). He worked 12 days, weekends, holidays, took no sick time or vacation so he could cash it out. and picked work at outside job shop. I would suspect that in New York city if you are willing to work everyday and and take all the optimal overtime a janitor could do the same, that is totally bounce your base pay. How many Janitors are rated for other maintenance duty? How many years of seniority? And how about a little sense of how many janitors out of what total made that much money.

    Or a different example

    https://www.financialsamurai.com/abo...-bart-janitor/

    So what is the point than about janitors you want a system where if you choose to bust you and family are just surfs BW? I bet a Lawyer is going to start whining about a transfer to the bay area if his or her salary is not adjusted from the in Peoria.
    Last edited by conon394; December 28, 2019 at 05:53 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post


    a reply

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-new-york-post-and-the-dollar140000-janitors

    You know back in the day around 1985 my father managed to earn around 150,000 dollars. He was a tool and die maker (and locksmith and machinist, and just about other rating he could get the man practically lived at night school for a decade [although I will admit I kinda loved all the time I got to spend in university libraries as child care growing up]). He worked 12 days, weekends, holidays, took no sick time or vacation so he could cash it out. and picked work at outside job shop. I would suspect that in New York city if you are willing to work everyday and and take all the optimal overtime a janitor could do the same, that is totally bounce your base pay. How many Janitors are rated for other maintenance duty? How many years of seniority? And how about a little sense of how many janitors out of what total made that much money.

    Or a different example

    https://www.financialsamurai.com/abo...-bart-janitor/

    So what is the point than about janitors you want a system where if you choose to bust you and family are just surfs BW? I bet a Lawyer is going to start whining about a transfer to the bay area if his or her salary is not adjusted from the in Peoria.
    Speaking of cost of living.

    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-over...lity-Pay-Areas
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  17. #17
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    I leave for a couple of days to enjoy the holiday and what do I find when I come back? A lot of "whataboutism" that's what. I thought lefties didn't like whataboutism.

    "back in the day" In those days and years prior, the boss' salary averaged two or three times what the average worker made, not thirty or forty times. The same goes for plant managers and CEOs. The job remains the same, but the salaries have become outrageous.

    And why, oh why, are you comparing private sector jobs and salaries with public sector salaries? It is not the same thing. When I was a kid government jobs were a safe landing zone for the "C" grade students. Good job security and poor salaries compared to the private sector. Government jobs are nearly impossible to get fired from. That's why they are considered a safe place for underachievers. In thirty years the whole concept has been turned upside down.

    So how about sticking with the questions that were asked. Do you think it is appropriate to have such large salaries for people working for cities that are clearly in financial trouble and why pay someone a pension based on the local cost of living when they are going to take that money and move somewhere where it is cheaper to live? Shouldn't there be an average that these pensions are based on such as what we see in the private sector?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    We love your hypocrisy BW. You care about a government worker that even 35 years into his career can't make more than the lower six figures when boosted for a highly expensive city. But you don't care about a young CEO that can crash a company and get a 7 to 10 figure golden parachute not counting whatever his 10 figure salary and stock option pay was up to that point.

    You also don't understand that any government agency is just as huge as any decent sized corporation. Thus just like any government agency any decent sized corporation will hire both mediocre and highly skilled people. The difference? The highly skilled government workers that take up that career take it up because they see public service as a calling. Not everyone goes into the military. Not everyone even can go into the military.

    You see, this is why we are so hostile to your opinion. You look down on everyone that doesn't agree with you. Even when we tear your crap up in a shredder.

    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  19. #19
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    I leave for a couple of days to enjoy the holiday and what do I find when I come back? A lot of "whataboutism" that's what. I thought lefties didn't like whataboutism.
    Why would you uniformly dismiss people who took the time to engage your vacuous AM talkshow narrative in good faith? Could it be because you have nothing behind it save your ideology? You questioned the rationale behind public sector salaries in certain locales, and people addressed your question directly. That’s not whataboutism.
    And why, oh why, are you comparing private sector jobs and salaries with public sector salaries?
    Why not?
    It is not the same thing.
    Why not? When filling positions, the government competes with the private sector for workers. Your question literally pertains to salaries and compensation, so of course comparison to the private sector is not only relevant, but entirely necessary for any sort of context. What “return” should any municipality be getting in exchange for paying people to take out the garbage, monitor parking meters and drive buses? Meter maids are supposed to be so efficient they magically generate surplus revenue? How many passengers should bus drivers be hustling for extra fare? How much do you think a qualified Aviation Commissioner with the requisite years of experience and education should be paid? Assuming you could pay “far less” and still get the same quality of eligible candidates, how much will those savings actually impact the overall city budget over time?
    So how about sticking with the questions that were asked. Do you think it is appropriate to have such large salaries for people working for cities that are clearly in financial trouble and why pay someone a pension based on the local cost of living when they are going to take that money and move somewhere where it is cheaper to live? Shouldn't there be an average that these pensions are based on such as what we see in the private sector?
    I reject the nonsensical premise behind your question. The reality behind public sector salaries in places like Chicago has been explained to you, you just didn’t like the answers. I have no idea what people leaving a city in retirement has to do with your question about salaries and benefits. Paying people to work for the government is not merely some form of cash stimulus designed to generate a “return.” Suggesting it is merely betrays your ideological premise that public sector workers are inherently a waste of money and resources. Instead of coyly asking if public sector retirement benefits should be equivalent to those in the private sector, you should at least admit you’d prefer they get virtually no retirement benefits at all, just like in the private sector.

    The reality behind your question is that public sector workers are not the mobsters you describe them to be, nor are they engaged in some kind of racket to raid cash from public coffers. Salaries for federal employees with a bachelor’s degree were roughly equivalent to their private sector counterparts. Those with higher degrees like Master’s/PhD actually earn far less than they could in the private sector. The one category where federal workers’ salaries are far higher than those in the private sector with comparable profiles is people with a HS diploma or GED, wherein federal workers earned around a third more in salary.

    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52637

    One reason for the relatively better benefits and job security enjoyed by public sector employees is the much higher rate of unionization. Perhaps private sector employees who don’t get the same level of pay or benefits should organize and close the gap. Yet for some reason you left that out of your “analysis.” The federal government also relies on private sector contractors for nearly half of its workforce, so we are left to assume you’re only complaining about the other 50-60% of “government jobs.”

    To the extent Chicago is “in trouble financially,” the city already tried to privatize some public jobs to save money. It turned out not to be the bargain they’d hoped for. Was that a better “return” for the money?

    Your disingenuous handwringing about public sector salaries is thoroughly outdated. By that I mean FDR already exposed the ideology from whence it arises as a fraudulent set of talking points. Blaming the government for luring workers away from the private sector by offering decent pay and good benefits is especially ridiculous when private sector wage growth has been relatively stagnant for decades. Public sector workers aren’t spoiled. Private sector workers got ed.

  20. #20
    B. W.'s Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Overpaid Bureaucrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    We love your hypocrisy BW. You care about a government worker that even 35 years into his career can't make more than the lower six figures when boosted for a highly expensive city. But you don't care about a young CEO that can crash a company and get a 7 to 10 figure golden parachute not counting whatever his 10 figure salary and stock option pay was up to that point.

    You also don't understand that any government agency is just as huge as any decent sized corporation. Thus just like any government agency any decent sized corporation will hire both mediocre and highly skilled people. The difference? The highly skilled government workers that take up that career take it up because they see public service as a calling. Not everyone goes into the military. Not everyone even can go into the military.

    You see, this is why we are so hostile to your opinion. You look down on everyone that doesn't agree with you. Even when we tear your crap up in a shredder.

    Nobody I know that's been too the DMV feels like they're getting their money's worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Why would you uniformly dismiss people who took the time to engage your vacuous AM talkshow narrative in good faith? Could it be because you have nothing behind it save your ideology? You questioned the rationale behind public sector salaries in certain locales, and people addressed your question directly. That’s not whataboutism.

    Why not?

    Why not? When filling positions, the government competes with the private sector for workers. Your question literally pertains to salaries and compensation, so of course comparison to the private sector is not only relevant, but entirely necessary for any sort of context. What “return” should any municipality be getting in exchange for paying people to take out the garbage, monitor parking meters and drive buses? Meter maids are supposed to be so efficient they magically generate surplus revenue? How many passengers should bus drivers be hustling for extra fare? How much do you think a qualified Aviation Commissioner with the requisite years of experience and education should be paid? Assuming you could pay “far less” and still get the same quality of eligible candidates, how much will those savings actually impact the overall city budget over time?

    I reject the nonsensical premise behind your question. The reality behind public sector salaries in places like Chicago has been explained to you, you just didn’t like the answers. I have no idea what people leaving a city in retirement has to do with your question about salaries and benefits. Paying people to work for the government is not merely some form of cash stimulus designed to generate a “return.” Suggesting it is merely betrays your ideological premise that public sector workers are inherently a waste of money and resources. Instead of coyly asking if public sector retirement benefits should be equivalent to those in the private sector, you should at least admit you’d prefer they get virtually no retirement benefits at all, just like in the private sector.

    The reality behind your question is that public sector workers are not the mobsters you describe them to be, nor are they engaged in some kind of racket to raid cash from public coffers. Salaries for federal employees with a bachelor’s degree were roughly equivalent to their private sector counterparts. Those with higher degrees like Master’s/PhD actually earn far less than they could in the private sector. The one category where federal workers’ salaries are far higher than those in the private sector with comparable profiles is people with a HS diploma or GED, wherein federal workers earned around a third more in salary.

    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52637

    One reason for the relatively better benefits and job security enjoyed by public sector employees is the much higher rate of unionization. Perhaps private sector employees who don’t get the same level of pay or benefits should organize and close the gap. Yet for some reason you left that out of your “analysis.” The federal government also relies on private sector contractors for nearly half of its workforce, so we are left to assume you’re only complaining about the other 50-60% of “government jobs.”

    To the extent Chicago is “in trouble financially,” the city already tried to privatize some public jobs to save money. It turned out not to be the bargain they’d hoped for. Was that a better “return” for the money?

    Your disingenuous handwringing about public sector salaries is thoroughly outdated. By that I mean FDR already exposed the ideology from whence it arises as a fraudulent set of talking points. Blaming the government for luring workers away from the private sector by offering decent pay and good benefits is especially ridiculous when private sector wage growth has been relatively stagnant for decades. Public sector workers aren’t spoiled. Private sector workers got ed.
    Kennedy is the one who legalized the unionization of government workers. Since then private sector unions have been dwindling and government unions have been growing. See if you can figure it out.

    I'm all for private sector unions and I'm all against public sector unions. So there.

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