I started a TLK campaign a week or so ago, maybe 10 days. I'm still fine-tuning my submod for it.
Tribunus
Re: CUMANS (Cuman-Kipchak Confederation)
I started a TLK campaign a week or so ago, maybe 10 days. I'm still fine-tuning my submod for it.
History and gameplay!
Re: CUMANS (Cuman-Kipchak Confederation)
Well, I'm not sure if there's manpower to finish the TLK. I've summarised my observations here.Originally Posted by k/t
Decanus
Re: CUMANS (Cuman-Kipchak Confederation)
Dasht-i-Qïpčaq
Contrary to my previous post in this thread, there is a way to reconstruct or at least come close to proper naming of settlements in the Qipchaq domain - I touch on this briefly on my mod thread which is currently being prepped for another release (mind, I am not an accredited figure and I am not a linguist). In addition, we have Rus, Arabic, Turkic, Persian, and partially Mongolic sources for the region. There exists Hebrew and inscriptions of Turkic origin as well. For my purposes in historical toponymy I have went through quite a bit of primary and secondary literature on the subject of the Khazar and Kipchak.
I will just touch on the cities in the steppes here:
Many settlements, especially in the East and in Slavic lands, follow the convention of "color" + "Settlement type."
Saqsin (Turkic. Sarïghshin, Sarïshin, or scientifically Sarïğčin , or Cumanic Codex based Sarikent)
During the time of the Khazar the settlement on this location was named Atil (Turkic origin), after the river Volga. Atil means "Big River" in Khazar Turkic, according to Wiki. However, Atil was destroyed by the Rus prior to 1132. The city recorded in the area was Saqsīn by the Persians. This is "Yellow City" in Turkic. And by the Arabs, a corruption of Turkic, as Sariğšīn (simplified as Sarighshin). Saray/Sarai/Sara/etc. means palace or city. Sari is how "yellow" is recorded in the Codex Cumanicus. It is also the same word in Turkish, Azerbaijani, and Tatar (Sary). In older Turkic forms it would be scientifically Sarığčın, but the "i" in old turkic is written as "ï" (umlaut) for academic purposes, like the I in expensive, I presume. So, Sarïğčin or more simply Sarïshin are most accurate imo. The Turkic form would be most accurate. The Cumanic form based on the Codex is identical to modern Turkish - which is Sarikent.
Idrisi living in the west and likely ignorant of Atil's fate gives the Arabic Āṭīl
Ḥamdallāh Mustawfī Qazvīnī gives the Persian form of the name as Saqsīn
The Chagatai and later Persian forms are Saksïn or Saḳsīn
Mongolic form may be Širağčın (Shiragh-chin), but historically was possibly Saray-Batu, but the location is one of conjecture.
There is a whole host of other names. By the time the Latins had domains in the region the city extant was Hajji-Tarkhan, Astarkhan. Which, itself is a Turkic name (see Tamantarkhan).
Given that Atil, Saqsin, and Saray Batu were among the most powerful cities in the region, Saqsin should be the capital. The Magyars and the Bulgarians were the only steppe tribes with any relevance in the Western arms. The Cumans captured Sarkel only 10 years or so before the campaign start.
Aqtobe (Cumanic. Saray-Kici)
The relocation of Aqtobe corresponds with with the city of Sarai-Juk (Little-Sarai, Palace/City). It existed prior to the Mongol invasions. In Cumanic (see the Codex Cumanicus) it would be Saray-Kici. Chagatai from around the 1700s or 1800s as Saraychiq. Sarāchūk in Arabic. Saraidjik in Ottoman Turkish. I give these names not only for my mod, but to compare the authenticity of the compounded Saray-Kici from the Codex.
Cherson (Khazar. Šuršun)
Šuršun (Shurshun) is the Khazar name.
Sharukan
I have yet to find anything.
Sarkel (Cumanic. Aqqala )Sarkel is the simplified Khazar name of Sarkyl/Šarkil (Sharkil). The name directly translates to White-Castle. In Cumanic it would be Aqqala. The Rus', Byzantines, and others directly translated this. I elaborate on this phenomenon in my mod thread. Note that the various names for Erzurum including Armenia use the form -qala, Kaliqala, meaning castle. Which would add credence to the loaning of words between Turkic, Armenian, Georgian, Persian, and Arabic peoples.
Tamantarkhan
Taman-Tarkhan seems to be the proper name. Taman is the Khazar name of the city, maybe after someone named Taman. Albeit, the peninsula is almost named as such. The etymology is unknown to me. Typical meglomania of the past if it is named after someone*. Tarkhan is an old Turkic word used for titles. I assume this place-name is similar to the Slavic Tsarjugrad (City of Tsars). Afaik, the Khazar name is the most approximate name for the city. The Byzantine and Rus' names are Tmutorokan' and Tamátarcha.
Azaq
The Ottomans give the name Azak on maps, but I have yet to see it in anything more closely related to Kipchak. Azaq is fine, I know of no other Turkic forms.
Other names of interest, which I will include in my mod of course, are:
Yerosolim
Kärmän or Ṣiyyob = Kiev (Khazar/Khazar Hebrew) note that Kiwamen and Kirmin are old Turkic names for Kiev.
Tiraphiz = Trapezond (Khazar)
Kōsheṭandīna = Constantinapoli (Khazar Hebrew)
Mäkkä = Mekka (Mamluk-Kipchak)
Last edited by Cephalophore; January 29, 2021 at 01:05 AM.
Decanus
Re: GEORGIA
some examples of contemporaneous Cuman/Turkic/Magyar helmets, sword, and clothing:
Note the very Rus' style.
thicc cuman boi
Sourced from works such as:
Muslim Sources on the Magyars in the Second Half of the 9th Century: The Magyar Chapter of the Jayhānī Tradition
The Bulgars and the Steppe Empire in the Early Middle Ages The Problem of the Others
The Romanians and the Turkic Nomads North of the Danube Delta from the Tenth to the Mid-Thirteenth Century
Last edited by Cephalophore; January 30, 2021 at 04:31 PM.
History and gameplay!
Re: GEORGIA
The Cumans will be assisted by a script similar to a bunch of other historical scripts:
;---- INVASIONS ;------- Scripts common for invasions mechanisms (decrease purse, countdown of counters etc.)
;------- Scotland Mobilizes
;------- Bulgarian Uprising (098 deactivated)
;------- Eldeguzid invasions of Georgia
;------- Turcoman Help for Rum
;------- Berber Help for Moors
;------- Makurian Help for the Fatimids
;------- Steppes Untamed - Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans
;------- Qara Khitai
;------- GOLDEN HORDE (MONGOL INVASIONS)Code:;====================================================================================================== ;------- Steppes Untamed - Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans ----------------------------------------- ;====================================================================================================== ; by JoC 2022 ;====================================================================================================== Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans ; script is a modification of Makurian Help script ; historically, the steppes could be tamed by any civilized faction only in 15-16 century ; the goal of this script is to provide help to the Cumans Fatimids if they have problems with Rus too early ; the armies are sizable but there's 2% chance no military help will be provided, only additional money ; this is a recurrent help - there's a 10 turns cool-down period per army spawned. ; It ends after the Mongol invasion. ; in the future: should be supplemented by script like Skytian raiders in EBII monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType cumans and I_NumberOfSettlements cumans < 4 and RandomPercent < 20 and I_EventCounter Nomadic_Tribes_Help_for_Cumans < 1 log -------------------- Script : Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans (1) INFORMATION --------------------- historic_event CUMANS_NOMADIC_TRIBES_HELP_IN_NEED log -------------------- Script : Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans (2) TERMINATION AFTER MONGOLS SACK SAMARKAND -- if I_EventCounter SAMARKAND_SACKED > 0 terminate_monitor end_if log -------------------- Script : Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans (3) FUNDING FOR THE ARMIES ----------- if I_EventCounter temp_purse_cumans = 0 increment_kings_purse cumans 5000 inc_event_counter temp_purse_cumans 21 ; it goes down in another script end_if log -------------------- Script : Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans (4) SPAWN OF ARMIES ------------------ if RandomPercent < 90 log ------ spawn Ashina of_the_Kharlugh spawn_army faction cumans character Ashina of_the_Kharlugh, named character, age 35, x 374, y 185 traits LoyaltyStarter 2 , MilitaryInclination 1 , Military_Edu 3 , GoodCommander 3 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 7 , Intelligent 8 unit Cuman Bodyguard exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0 unit Behk Druzhina exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi Senior Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Dismounted Cuman Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 end inc_event_counter Nomadic_Tribes_Help_for_Cumans 10 ; it goes down in another script end_if if RandomPercent < 65 log ------ spawn Muyun of_the_Pecheneg spawn_army faction cumans character Muyun of_the_Pecheneg, named character, age 32, x 374, y 186 traits LoyaltyStarter 3 , MilitaryInclination 1 , Military_Edu 2 , GoodCommander 3 , ReligionStarter 1 , StrategyDread 2 , Handsome 6 , Intelligent 7 , GoodCavalryGeneral 2 , Miserly 2 unit Cuman Bodyguard exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Dismounted Cuman Militia exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Dismounted Cuman Militia exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Dismounted Cuman Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 end inc_event_counter Nomadic_Tribes_Help_for_Cumans 10 end_if if RandomPercent < 40 log ------ spawn Timur of_the_Bashkir spawn_army faction cumans character Timur of_the_Bashkir, named character, age 28, 374, y 187 traits LoyaltyStarter 3 , MilitaryInclination 1 , Military_Edu 1 , StrategyChivalry 2 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 5 , Intelligent 6 , GoodCavalryGeneral 2 , Generous 2 unit Cuman Bodyguard exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Turkomans exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Pechenegs exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi Senior Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 unit Kasogi exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0 end inc_event_counter Nomadic_Tribes_Help_for_Cumans 10 end_if log -------------------- Script : Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans (5) CHANGES IN DIPLOMACY ------------------ ; ------ SHARUKAN if I_SettlementOwner Sharukan = byzantium console_command diplomatic_stance byzantium cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sharukan 8 ; set public unrest to 40% - it will DECREASE over time end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sharukan = kievan_rus console_command diplomatic_stance kievan_rus cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sharukan 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sharukan = russia console_command diplomatic_stance russia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sharukan 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sharukan = georgia console_command diplomatic_stance georgia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sharukan 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sharukan = hungary console_command diplomatic_stance hungary cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sharukan 8 end_if ; ------ AZAQ if I_SettlementOwner Azaq = byzantium console_command diplomatic_stance byzantium cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Azaq 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Azaq = kievan_rus console_command diplomatic_stance kievan_rus cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Azaq 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Azaq = russia console_command diplomatic_stance russia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Azaq 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Azaq = georgia console_command diplomatic_stance georgia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Azaq 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Azaq = hungary console_command diplomatic_stance hungary cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Azaq 8 end_if ; ------ BULGAR if I_SettlementOwner Bulgar = byzantium console_command diplomatic_stance byzantium cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Bulgar = kievan_rus console_command diplomatic_stance kievan_rus cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Bulgar = russia console_command diplomatic_stance russia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Bulgar = georgia console_command diplomatic_stance georgia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Bulgar = hungary console_command diplomatic_stance hungary cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if ; ------ SARKEL if I_SettlementOwner Sarkel = byzantium console_command diplomatic_stance byzantium cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Bulgar 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sarkel = kievan_rus console_command diplomatic_stance kievan_rus cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sarkel 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sarkel = russia console_command diplomatic_stance russia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sarkel 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sarkel = georgia console_command diplomatic_stance georgia cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sarkel 8 end_if if I_SettlementOwner Sarkel = hungary console_command diplomatic_stance hungary cumans war add_settlement_turmoil Sarkel 8 end_if log ------ Script end end_monitor
History and gameplay!
Re: CUMANS (Cuman-Kipchak Confederation)
There's a new video about this faction. Recently, I've also included two books that are in the open access.
Re: CUMANS (Cuman-Kipchak Confederation)
This video isn't very accurate in terms of arms and armor. Its just refferencing pop-culture history and such. Some incorrect statements used in the video:
"There are many archaeological discoveries of the famed cuman facemask helmets found in burial sites"
- Not quite. First, the helmet he is showing on the left is not an archaeological discovery, its a theoretical modern reproduction. Its hard to say what is it based on and where can it be dated to, because it does not look like any archaeological finding. The model in the middle is using that theoretical modern recustruction as a source, so the conclusion is the same. That model on the right is using what is probably Lipovets helmet as the basis for it. I'll explain about that as simply as i can, so you can understand. In short, there is 0 archaeological evidence of cuman facemask helmets. They probably did wear facemasks, that is my opinion, but the fact is that nobody found any. I guess its semantics here, but look at it like this. Cumans before mongol invasion? They have their own state, they have their own culture, weapons and armor. Cumans after mongol invasion? They are in a melting pot with all the Rus states, mongol overlords and other turkic nations. The famous Kovali and Lipovets helmets are not cuman helmets. They are 14th century bascinet-like helmets from the Golden Horde. Not arguing about the masks here, really, but the helmets themselves. Kovali and Lipovets helmets being bascinets is pretty much a dead givaway that they are from the second half of 14th century onwards. Meanwhile, their shape, which is often reffered as cylindro-conical or tent-shaped comes from east Asia, brought in by the mongols. In 14th century, lots of nations adopted that shape from mongols. Turkic people in the Golden Horde, turkic people in Anatolia, persians, georgians, ruthenians, lithuanians, poles, slavs in Balkans, byzantines, hell, even the germans far up in the western Europe. You should read these pages just to grasp the idea of tent-shaped, cilyndro-conical helmets starting being after late 13th, 14th century.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/establishing-for-50406649
https://swordmaster.org/2016/05/07/m...-deisusom.html
"found in burial sites together with maille and lamellar armor"
- Yeah, about that. Nomadic burial sites in western Asia have maille most of the time. Lamellar? Not so much. I'd like author to name just any cuman burials, containing lamellar. For european cumans, who moves into Hungary, Balkans, you have depictions of them wearing either maille or robes (assuming there could be maille under the robes, because many images show maille coifs with helmets or hats on as well).
It should be noted that the video's owner uses footage from TW: Attila's mod Medieval Kingdoms 1212 AD. Its unlikely that he knows about the revamp, which is coming to fix the cumans, they will not look like that after the update, they will look historically accurate. There are so many clues on how cuman soldiers looked like before mongol invasion and its not like shown in the video.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I have nothing against the Circassians-a proud warrior people, a component in many armies in the Levant and Middle East-but the Circassian region is a wee bit ridiculous, all to give historical semblance to the Kievan exclave of Tmudarakan; in my opinion, it would be better to return it to its original borders, and it is only to ensure territorial continuity for Georgia; consider that the Caucasus has been both a brake on expansion over the mountains and a "shield" for possible invasions.
History and gameplay!
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I'd be great if you'd provide a picture of the map with a sketch what should be changed. I think that the Tmutarakan was perhaps historical in 10th and (even less) in 11th century, but it should not constitute a separate province. On the other hand, the Circassia could/should.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I would consider the old borders/previous version ( I used the old image to refer only to Tmudarakan! not others! ) for Tmudarakan - like the gateway to the Azov/Kerch Strait - and Chersonesos ( think today of what Sevastopol is) were important trade emporiums and markets for Rus', Byzantium, Trebizond, Genoese ( Gazaria and Mantrega ) Khanate, Ottomans and finally for Russia - especially for slave from the steppes ( maybe move the indicated resources here ). They were the main "ports" and strategic areas in the Black Sea.
Circassia is known more for its warrior people ( the Mamluks was largely Circassian even a Mamluk ruling dynasty of Burji ) in fact we already have a Circassian unit, the kasogi ( Ossetian term ) so I think more of an AoR unit in the areas - strong and expensive maybe - in surrounding areas. The various Circassian tribes never unified under one banner, a fact that greatly reduced their influence in the territory and benefited the invaders over the centuries ( that's why I don't think of a separate region ). Only in the 1800s we have circassian Imamate Caucasic in the area.
Also for Saqsin on the Volga delta - today's Astrakhan Oblast; a strategic region on the delta is more credible than the current one so stretched always for what I was reiterating, belonging to a medieval dimension, as if we were looking at the Venetian lagoon, the Dalmatian coast, Trebizond, and Sinope.
The boundaries of the current one seem very political if we think of the Wakan Corridor in Afghanistan or the Caprivi finger in Africa; in SSHIP we have a very good number of (circled) strategic areas both military ( Nice steps to Italy ) and commercial ( Lund and Visbyin Baltic Sea, Mediterranean islands, Levant, Costantinople and Black Sea )and I think they have been excellently balanced between being there or not-I don't know how many provinces can be made? Corsica and Tangier are expendable, maybe Barqua in the hands of the Banu Hilal rebels. If I had to I would definitely bring back Aqaba ( it assumes importance in the Mamluk period of 1500, later than most of the game ) to Kerak.
I also tried to edit it with Geomod but I messed up and will have to reinstall the mod
Last edited by Mattus; August 10, 2022 at 01:29 PM.
History and gameplay!
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Before answering - it seems that this pic is from the SSHIP v. 097 ? iirc, the v.098 map looks differently... you think we should revert to that older one?
Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; August 10, 2022 at 02:11 PM.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I used the SSHIP 0.97 map for reference only to the region in question! Not all regions and maps but only for Tmudarakan and Saqsin region ( previous version of these borders)!
Did I manage to explain now? Sorry but I try to explain better.... Ahahah
SSHIP 0.98 map is OK but the Tmudarakan and Saqsin regions I find more realistic in version 0.97. Understand?!
Remove these corrections ( red X) better the prevoius ( blue circle ); I have tried with Geomod by myself but it gives me an error after modified
Last edited by Mattus; August 10, 2022 at 02:48 PM.
History and gameplay!
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Now I've understood it. And I can provide an explanation: the borders of the provinces are important for trade connections that are set up automatically by the Med2 engine, and also for access to the sea - what enables building ports and also provide with the sea trade connections. In both cases the goal of the new borders was the same: cut off Sarkel from the seas so that there'll be no port and no sea trade routes, while providing land trade connections between Tmutarakan and Kutatisi, and between Itil and Derbend.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Yes....I understand the mechanics of trade routes, but in a sense precisely because of the role played by Taman and Saqsin on the strategic sea aspect I find the old version more credible and reliable.During the 12th century Genoa founded numerous emporiums along the Caucasian coast, such as Layso or Casto near modern Sochi-surely less famous than Crimea-as a conduit to the people of the steppes.
Similarly it was sometimes safer to sail the coastal sea route than to sail the coast itself ( bandits and, indeed, moguls/cumans )
Finally, I would put back as before, for a visual aspect - it is something aberrant to the eye! XD - as well as for a historical contribution; as it would form the rift in the connection between the two sides of the Caucasus.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
don't want to sound pushy - and I apologize in case - but even the same mechanics following the AI is identical: it tends to follow the trade route in invasions; in 0.97 Georgia almost never invaded beyond the Caucasus - as it did historically, by contrast the Cumans happened to attack me beyond Caucasus ( likely according to historical sources ); in 0.98 the situation is reversed with Georgia pushing further north than south.
All of which is not knowing how severely it may affect the dynamics of land trade, which I repeat I would not find so historically erroneous, which I repeat I would not find so historically erroneous and likely to be real in its malus.
I find the breakdown of the game dynamics for routes much more believable - even historically speaking we have territorial splits between Caucasus and non-Caucasus ( Persians, Greek colonies, Pontus Kingdom, Romans etcc )
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I think I have come to my senses and found a very good compromise: on the Black Sea we exclude the presence of the port for the Sarkel ( however, I would add the slave resource at Taman ) while on the Caspian the Deghestan acquires more modern but historically reliable boundaries for the former emirate of Derbent and Shamlakate of Tarki - as the current federal state-as far as the river with the bridge, not including Serkel on the Caspian.
Historically reliable and plausible and keeps the dynamics of the game for ports and roads as you rightly argued; I think it is also visually prettier! An outstanding compromise I think!
History and gameplay!
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Placing resources is also a very delicate game to play. If you add to many (or maybe too profitable) then you'd get a significant population growth boost and then a historically tiny spot may grow quickly to a large city. It'd be follish to find Chersonesos and Taman as two most important trading partners of Constantinople ;-)I think I have come to my senses and found a very good compromise: on the Black Sea we exclude the presence of the port for the Sarkel ( however, I would add the slave resource at Taman ) while on the Caspian the Deghestan acquires more modern but historically reliable boundaries for the former emirate of Derbent and Shamlakate of Tarki - as the current federal state-as far as the river with the bridge, not including Serkel on the Caspian.
Historically reliable and plausible and keeps the dynamics of the game for ports and roads as you rightly argued; I think it is also visually prettier! An outstanding compromise I think!
I can't actually see the difference you propose. Just open it in the Paint and add a few lines to signify it :-)
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I tried zooming in and circling - a little garnet - however, I think you can see it now!
History and gameplay!
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
ok, I've compared it to 098 and it seems pretty similar, only:
- Itil - in 098 it follows the Khasar traditional lands: Samandar was more to the south than in your pic, and the region should reflect it. 098 map just catches that spot.
- in the west I still have problems with making one province for Tmutarakan. I think this province should be "Mountains west of Caucasus", so the lands of Circensians (and the 098 map catches the mountains, they might be impassable, though, I don't remember). I don't think just Tmutarakan deserves a separate province status. I have no idea if the lenght of the borders makes the Georgians moving north... I think any borders makes it more likely.
Civis
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
I expose only an historial view and: from the the Varagian Routes of Don ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_..._to_the_Greeks ) we can see the important of the Kerc strait for Azov Sea and Tmudarakan/Taman in the Rus' period or Byzantium, and to follow - many clashes between them in history for the control of Kerc Strait and these site ( here, in the marsh area near the city they've extracted the naphtha for Greek fire! ) and these historic views convince me to support this idea of region ( We have examples for every century for the importance of these commercial area, differently and independent of ther rest of Ciscaucasia.
A Circassian region on the mountain will be too modern concept of etnicity and its issue of unity started from 1400s - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inal_t...t_of_Circassia - in the Tama areas to inlands. They were been for long times under cumans, mongols or timurids control and served like soldiers for many kings or sultans ( until become sultans themself but in a foreign country ). However the start of circassian expansion was the Taman areas in 1400s because was a strategic and rich region of trade.
A region of that type is acceptable if the game would start around 1400s/1500s in the ended of the Golden Horde, after that, many Khanate rised in the areas of North Caucasus/Ciscaucasia
For Itil, I considered even the Astrakhan Khanate and Shamlakate of Tarki and Emirate of Derbent, and the Terek river between them ( I suppose that the river is that ) Samadar is in the north of the river.... indeed I used the river like a natural and geographical border - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar...us,_740_CE.svg - the error is minimal and acceptable with this map resolution( some cities are in a incorrect position, like on the wrong side of river); the kazars owned the entire scytian zone, between Don and Volga to Caucasus ( Ciscaucasia zone ).
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