PORTUGAL

[RodriguesSting]

Actually, maybe more castles in Iberia would solve everyone's problems. The only ones who actually benefit of having many cities, really, are the moors, who can capitalize that cash into their fortresses, and to boot it up, can get decent numbers of Andalusian field troops from cities. Castille got one castle (ironic) and Aragon as well.

[Draken2007]

Upon review, I think Portugal's recruitment issues could be solved entirely if only Lisboa and Coimbra were castles instead of cities. They got good castle recruitment in Portuguese lands, and decent on Spanish, but akin to other Iberians, apparently, abysmal in Andalusian lands. So, as Portuguese lands can't have castles, and Spanish lands would require waging war on fellow Christians...

Portugal only starts with Coimbra, and then it captures Lisboa and Silves. Portugal has three provinces, not two.

[RodriguesSting]

Portugal only starts with Coimbra, and then it captures Lisboa and Silves. Portugal has three provinces, not two.

Only Coimbra and Lisbon have the hidden resource Portugal, which is what would theoretically allow them to be great castles. Silves contains moors and Andalusia, which Portugal can do about nothing with.

Edit: Actually, adding the portuguese hidden resource to Silves and then, during campaign, converting it to a castle, would go a long way to improve the Portuguese gameplay with a very simple change. At least you would get to be able to witness what was intended for their castle recruitment. Would be just a start though.

[Steward Denethor II]

I played Portugal for like 25 turns on the old patch, it was fun. I crushed the Moors and then sacked Northern Egypt while on Crusade (sacked Cairo twice!). Their roster seemed fine. It would be good if they could have Lusitanian Javelins as regulars I admit, maybe give those guys good stamina as well. However with them as mercenaries it is not a big deal.

I think it probably should just be called the Kingdom, not the County. Yes on turn 1 they are a county but very early on they became a Kingdom. Perhaps the AI should get a script to retake Lisbon (which happened historically).

Silves should have the Portugal hidden resource, yes. It is a part of Portugal. It could have the Moors and Andalusia resource as well.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think it probably should just be called the Kingdom, not the County. Yes on turn 1 they are a county but very early on they became a Kingdom. Perhaps the AI should get a script to retake Lisbon (which happened historically).

Silves should have the Portugal hidden resource, yes. It is a part of Portugal. It could have the Moors and Andalusia resource as well.

Name - to be considered in the future.
Silves - I've added the portugal hidden resource.
Script to retake Lisbon for the AI is not needed, but there's an additional for the third city for the PT AI:

    ;====================================================================================================== PORTUGAL: Badajoz 2    ; The AI is usually very good at taking Lisbon, no need for that one. This one is to provide Portugal with a third settlement and challenge the Moors.


    monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType portugal
        and I_TurnNumber = 1


        if I_IsFactionAIControlled portugal
            spawn_army
                faction portugal
                character	Fernando Barros, named character, age 30, x 28, y 127, family
                traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , MilitaryInclination 1 , Military_Edu 2 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1 , BiologicalSon 1 , Handsome 6 , Intelligent 8
                unit		SE Bodyguard					exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Caballeros Hidalgos				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Caballeros Villanos				exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Dismounted Sword Mailed Knights	exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Light Swordsmen					exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Spear Militia					exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Spear Militia					exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Lusitanian Javelinmen			exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Javelinmen						exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Peasant Archers					exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
                unit		Peasant Archers					exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
            end
        end_if


        terminate_monitor
    end_monitor


    monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType portugal
        and I_TurnNumber > 0


        if not I_IsFactionAIControlled portugal
            terminate_monitor													; terminate to shorten the turn times in the future
        end_if


        if not I_SettlementOwner Badajoz = moors
            terminate_monitor
        end_if


        if I_SettlementUnderSiege Badajoz
            and I_TurnNumber = 1
            terminate_monitor
        end_if


        if not I_CharacterTypeNearTile portugal, named_character, 0, 28, 127
            terminate_monitor
        end_if


        if I_TurnNumber = 2
            console_command auto_win attacker
            siege_settlement Fernando Barros, Badajoz, attack
            terminate_monitor
        end_if


        if I_TurnNumber = 1
            siege_settlement Fernando Barros, Badajoz, maintain
        end_if


    end_monitor

[RodriguesSting]

Actually that gives me an idea about a Reconquista mechanic. Upon taking (and holding?) Andalusian lands, you would add your corresponding culture hidden resource in the province. That way, by actively taking Moorish lands, you would be effectively expanding your homeland, having many more provinces out of which you could potentially draw your entire recruitment from (and maybe keeping the local Moorish, Andalusian, and Berber populations, that is, hidden resources, as a bonus). That would make waging war against the Moors rather than the Christians the most profitable thing you could do.

Would a light-weight monitoring script for that even possible?

Edit: Even if your faction manages to not reconquer anything, taking the reconquered lands from your Iberian cousins later would be much better than the current Andalusian lands, as they get mutual recruitment. That is, despite recruiting better on their homelands, Portugal, Castille, and Aragon can recruit better on each other's lands than they can recruit elsewhere.

[Jurand of Cracow]

The problem for both religious sides was that it was much more profitable to take on your rivals you share faith with than on the others. The Almoravids came to the rescue of the Muslims but they mostly fought the taifas to bring them under their heel. There're not that many Zallaquas. The cooperation of the Christians in the first part of the 13c. was something rather unique. Of course, the Medieval narratives and later histories draw a different picture - but this is exactly what the modern theory of historiography tells us to pay attention to. Otherwise Granada wouldn't stand for another 200 years. Of course, there're limiting powers for such a behavior - and we do have them reflected in the game mechanics: the pope or the reputation. Besides, the game takes place within 400 years timeframe. All in all, I think the current framework is ok and special scripting to make Portuguese go after the Muslims is not required.

[j.a.luna]

The problem for both religious sides was that it was much more profitable to take on your rivals you share faith with than on the others. The Almoravids came to the rescue of the Muslims but they mostly fought the taifas to bring them under their heel. There're not that many Zallaquas. The cooperation of the Christians in the first part of the 13c. was something rather unique. Of course, the Medieval narratives and later histories draw a different picture - but this is exactly what the modern theory of historiography tells us to pay attention to. Otherwise Granada wouldn't stand for another 200 years. Of course, there're limiting powers for such a behavior - and we do have them reflected in the game mechanics: the pope or the reputation. Besides, the game takes place within 400 years timeframe. All in all, I think the current framework is ok and special scripting to make Portuguese go after the Muslims is not required.

For me Reconquista in sship is well balanced, only add new unit roster for iberian and moors factions and the famous Almohad invasion ( via script?). Also i would like see in Iberia permanent religious orders troops as Santiago, hospitalers and templars due to castilians/ aragoneses/portugueses were in permanent war against moors (infidels), a unique iberian crusade.

[RodriguesSting]

The problem for both religious sides was that it was much more profitable to take on your rivals you share faith with than on the others. The Almoravids came to the rescue of the Muslims but they mostly fought the taifas to bring them under their heel. There're not that many Zallaquas. The cooperation of the Christians in the first part of the 13c. was something rather unique. Of course, the Medieval narratives and later histories draw a different picture - but this is exactly what the modern theory of historiography tells us to pay attention to. Otherwise Granada wouldn't stand for another 200 years. Of course, there're limiting powers for such a behavior - and we do have them reflected in the game mechanics: the pope or the reputation. Besides, the game takes place within 400 years timeframe. All in all, I think the current framework is ok and special scripting to make Portuguese go after the Muslims is not required.

The goal wasn't to make Portugal specifically go after the Umayyads, but rather, all Iberians. It is inspired by a CK2 mod Reconquista mechanic, arguably better than what was implemented by Paradox: whatever lands you conquered by the holy war would be incorporated into your de-jure kingdom. That would make these lands much more valuable to you. Shifting your culture hidden resource into Andalusian lands would be somewhat akin to that, specially as Iberian recruitment seems weak outside Iberia.

[RodriguesSting]

Peace is not an option. The larger you grow, the more likely are Castille or even the Moors to ignore any attempts of keeping a good neighborhood policy and swallow your provinces whole. Furthermore, in no other game, ever, I was so constantly assailed by spies as in this one. Portugal was meant to the spy paradise in WW2, but it seems Castille can't wait that much. And, as your recruitment is terrible, trying to get an effective standing army to defend yourself will be very difficult.

I can try to keep peace by bribing both sides regularly. You can climb one degree in relationships every 3K gifted, and I think, when Perfect, they won't try to kill you. I think I won't bother with Alliances anymore too -- they seem to have no effect on standing, and thus, the likelihood of an invasion.

Also, down to two provinces, Castille was still pumping out a hell of an army. Probably due to the easier access to Javelinmen. But might as well also be because I'm playing on Hard. Guess I should humble myself and just go for Normal if I am to insist on surviving until Heavy Mail.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Peace is not an option. The larger you grow, the more likely are Castille or even the Moors to ignore any attempts of keeping a good neighborhood policy and swallow your provinces whole. Furthermore, in no other game, ever, I was so constantly assailed by spies as in this one. Portugal was meant to the spy paradise in WW2, but it seems Castille can't wait that much. And, as your recruitment is terrible, trying to get an effective standing army to defend yourself will be very difficult.

I can try to keep peace by bribing both sides regularly. You can climb one degree in relationships every 3K gifted, and I think, when Perfect, they won't try to kill you. I think I won't bother with Alliances anymore too -- they seem to have no effect on standing, and thus, the likelihood of an invasion.

Also, down to two provinces, Castille was still pumping out a hell of an army. Probably due to the easier access to Javelinmen. But might as well also be because I'm playing on Hard. Guess I should humble myself and just go for Normal if I am to insist on surviving until Heavy Mail.

Spies - the Muslim faction are somehow programmed to send assassins, I have no idea what parameter rules it.

The number of the AI troops should be limited by the recruitment pool regeneration, hmm.

Hard is an ok difficulty to play, but for Portugal (perhaps the most difficult faction on the map to play) it may be to high. I don't know.

[DavidofLaSalle]

Before 0.97, Portugal's start was very difficult. The only way I wasn't quickly overwhelmed was if I managed to win a heroic victory at Lisbon. Having Coimbra and Lisbon gave just enough funds to recruit enough troops (including as many mercenaries as possible) to survive. Even then, you would have to make peace with the Moors right after, because taking both Leon & Castile and the Almoravids at the same time was not feasible (Leon nevers makes peace, unless you are able to ally with Aragon).
This current iteration of Portugal was more reasonable. My goodness that starting Trebuchet was handy. It allowed me to quickly take Lisbon, Badajoz, and Silves, and then Sevilla and Cordoba quickly followed. From there, I was in a very solid position as the major power in the peninsula. This was on VH/VH.

[RodriguesSting]

Before 0.97, Portugal's start was very difficult. The only way I wasn't quickly overwhelmed was if I managed to win a heroic victory at Lisbon. Having Coimbra and Lisbon gave just enough funds to recruit enough troops (including as many mercenaries as possible) to survive. Even then, you would have to make peace with the Moors right after, because taking both Leon & Castile and the Almoravids at the same time was not feasible (Leon nevers makes peace, unless you are able to ally with Aragon).
This current iteration of Portugal was more reasonable. My goodness that starting Trebuchet was handy. It allowed me to quickly take Lisbon, Badajoz, and Silves, and then Sevilla and Cordoba quickly followed. From there, I was in a very solid position as the major power in the peninsula. This was on VH/VH.

Castille is indeed quite reluctant to accept peace, but until they summon an actual invasion army, they will just send tiny stacks that are sword fodder for your bodyguards. That said, by a sum of around 10K, they will quickly accept peace, and following, an alliance. In fact, ever since taking Lisbon, I have never been at war in this game, and managed to get a large amount of the peninsula by just bribing and purchasing settlements, while building a decent standing army of villanos.

It is terribly boring though. M/M. I would risk war more if I only could get a castle early to make a conventional standing army. But the only good castle within reach is Toledo, so good luck with that.

[DavidofLaSalle]

@RodriguesSting

On VH, they would usually send full stacks of militia, with a few villanos mixed in, every 10 turns or so. And 10K was difficult to come by as well.
Your method of expansion is very interesting. I usually brute force everything, I will certainly be looking to try your method out! How much does it typically cost to purchase a settlement early on? When I do try, it typically costs way more than I have lol
And yes, I would agree that Badajoz is fairly useless. By the time its grown enough to be useful, you've already taken the rest of the peninsula and have Toledo and Granada at your disposal.

[RodriguesSting]

@RodriguesSting

On VH, they would usually send full stacks of militia, with a few villanos mixed in, every 10 turns or so. And 10K was difficult to come by as well.
Your method of expansion is very interesting. I usually brute force everything, I will certainly be looking to try your method out! How much does it typically cost to purchase a settlement early on? When I do try, it typically costs way more than I have lol
And yes, I would agree that Badajoz is fairly useless. By the time its grown enough to be useful, you've already taken the rest of the peninsula and have Toledo and Granada at your disposal.

Then I will teach you the ways of peace. The Way of the Peace and the Black Peace. Both allow you to expand without having to wage war, but one will allow you to keep a chivalrous general and good reputation, and the other is much faster but will lead to Dread and poor reputation. As reputation is currently on a weird spot, it doesn't matter much.

Both ways require you to continuously work with your diplomats to make sure your neighbors don't dislike you enough to invade. In my experience, the only way to achieve that is to keep your relations as high as possible, with "Good" being the sure sign that you have to act fast. A 3K gift is enough to climb your reputation by one degree, and, in my experience, with my reputation from Mixed to above, it lasts 2-3 turns until it goes down one degree. That means, effectively, you will be spending 1k to 1.5k with neighbor per turn, and twice that if you want to actually achieve a Perfect relationship. That's useful, because when you get to Perfect, you can actually move your diplomat (assuming you're working with only one) out to go please the next neighbor, or start the actual work of expanding your realm.

The Way of the Peace, you will acquire your settlements mostly by bribe or purchase. Anything smaller than a city will usually be bribed by around 21K, but that requires that it doesn't have any governor or important agent (bishops?) inside. Otherwise, you have to try to purchase it diplomatically. You can expect costs to be much higher. Be prepared to have to offer at least 35K for that same settlement, or until your offer is Balanced. You can try to go the lowest it will allow while still Balanced, to try to save some money, but you can risk the faction losing interest in the offer and waste that diplomat's turn. Bribing is cheaper, the faction makes no money out of it, and can give you a garrison, but the settlement will have some Unrest for a while. Buying is more expensive, but usually more available than bribes, won't result in extra unrest, and the settlement will receive a garrison, usually of mercenaries or whatever high level troops it can train, so it is arguably a way to get troops as well, even stuff still locked to you.

Black Peace, it focus on creating more opportunities for you to bribe settlements, by using spies to cause revolts (destroying buildings and maybe killing resident governors and agents, lowering the price of the settlement, both on bribe and purchase), and using assassins to murder governors and resident agents. This also unlocks a new method of expansion: you can get a settlement to rebel, and take it with your own forces, effectively encroaching into the faction's lands without having to start a war with them.

Keep in mind though, there's settlements that will never be bribed or sold. I am not sure what parameters the AI use, but eventually, you will have to resort to arms. But without having to worry about invasions, or at least, multiple invasions, you can have a far more relaxed game.

[DavidofLaSalle]

@RodriguesSting

Thank you for all the info!

I think for the most part I was going up to about 20k for a settlement and seeing it wasn't enough, so I would give up. Or I was offering to bribe and being rejected outright. I will look for these options more from now on, so thank you!

Black Peace I have been practising a good amount to this point. In my current run through, I waged a proxy war with the Papacy until I was strong enough to weather the excommunication penalties and take them on myself. I luckily had Pisa and the HRE whom I could funnel funds to wage war against the Papacy (they had expanded to own the majority of the Italian Peninsula and into Switzerland, southern France, and southern Germany, approximately 12-15 settlements). This kept them busy and prevented expansion. In the meanwhile, I spammed spies and assassins to destabilise their cities. After being weakened from wars with a weak Pisa and a weak HRE and being weakened by losing a number of their settlements to rebellion, I was only at war with them for a very brief time to provide the "cutting blow".

I will definitely look into more of a white peace in the future though, so thank you again!

[Swagger]

Don't. Replace. Portugal.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Don't. Replace. Portugal.

I doubt there's anybody in the modding team who would wish changing a faction. Too many things would have needed to be done. Even if in my opinion Spain is too overcrowded while two other areas merit an additional faction: Tunesia should be inhabited by the Zirids (and gameplaywise would be challenge to Sicily), and an additional faction should be in Rus so that there'd be 3 entities competing: pricipality of Suzdal-Rostov, principality of Halych-Volodymyr and the pricinpality (later a republic) of Novgorod (plus expanding Kypchacks, Lithuania and Poland - the would make this part of the world really difficult for any faction).
But we've got Portugal and it will stay.

[Swagger]

[Swagger]

I can't recall which strat names can be altered or even exist but here's a few suggestions to revamp these:

Portuguese Faction Leader, should be "Dom" or "Rei".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_(h...nd_territories
We say "Dom Afonso Henriques" (our first King) more usually than "Rei Afonso Henriques", either way is totally fine and understandable. Dom just has a more.. native gist to it.
Rei means King ofc.

Alternatively we also say "Rei Dom Afonso Henriques", it's a redudancy but it goes something like: King as in Royal Title and Dom from being a noble.
To keep things less cluttered, I'd suggest the first one (either "Dom" or "Rei")

Portuguese Faction Heir, if you want it natively accurate, I'd suggest "Príncipe de Portugal" -> ["de Portugal"] being optional
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Portugal

Male Royal Family Members, if you want it natively accurate, I'd suggest "Infante de Portugal" -> ["de Portugal"] being optional
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante_of_Portugal

For Random, non royal Generals, i'd suggest "Fidalgo".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidalgo
Fidalgo is any noble without a specific title (count, duke etc), just a nobleman.

As for Captains, I'd go with "Capitão", as it's pretty much what's already in and works perfectly, just in Portuguese.