ABBASIDS

[Jurand of Cracow]

I. General information

This thread is meant to gather all information about the faction and to conduct discussions on the faction related issues.

The entries should be developed by both the SSHIP team and the interested players.

[Jurand of Cracow]

II. Strategy & gameplay


To be developed in due course. If you've played the game with this faction and have insights how to help fellow players, please write a proposal for this section.

Probably one of the best campaigns in Medieval 2 Total War and its mods. For any lurkers wondering why to play this faction in SSHIP: as the Abbasids youÂ’ll spend the first 175 turns surviving against overwhelming odds to restore the caliphate as the preeminent power in Mesopotamia and the Levant against a diverse set of enemies including the Seljuk empire, the Zengids, the Fatimids, Georgia, the Sultante of Rum, the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and Byzantium (and thatÂ’s just by turn 175 and not including the myriad of Crusader armies youÂ’ll encounter). Then the real fun begins. As you finally get your feet underneath you, the Mongols arrive. This is one of the few campaigns in any total war campaign that maintains its intensity through 300+ turns. There is no reprieve. You will not find yourself bored after 100 turns when you control Iraq and Syria thinking the snowballing is about to begin, because to your west is a resurgent Byzantium stronger than you with the nomadic threat from the east still to come. What a wonderful campaign. Cheers to everyone who contributed to this projectÂ’s development and this campaign in particular. A complete joy.

In historical context they woule be facing an impossible odds. Playing them however Abbasid are one of the easier faction. Their starting economy for a 3 settlement faction are insane and it can quickly snowball because you already can recruit 2 merchant with close proximity to high income goods but you're also close to 2 faction capital which grant you another merchant if you conquer them and finally middle eastern are filled with highly developed city with special attention to Iranian mountain which are filled with lucrative mines. All result you can be very reckless in your spending than many other faction.
As for the enemy i say Fatimids are the consistent problem, they are bordering Baghdad from the desert land of Tayma and will continiously sent spy, assassin and armies at Baghdad. Seljuk and Zengids have a smiliar roster with you and are honestly a nothongburger as an enemies. Jerusalem are highly packed with heavy troops but ironicly arrow are their weakness as their armor are not that thick to protect arrow shot, European crusader may also came but they are more of a weaker Jerusalem. Finally Cuman although your most encounter will probably in Transaxiona, they have a better nomadic tradition than the Turks roster which make them menacing with their arrows but their army are very archer focus, copy the Jerusalm tactic of engaging them in melee before they loose their arrows. There is also Rum and Georgia but i ally with them and so far they kept true to their words so i haven't fight them.

[Jurand of Cracow]

III. Provinces

Provincial titles:
General explanations to be found in the relevant thread on the PTs.
Catholic: generic Latin term "Comes ... -ae" everywhere.
Orthodox: generic "Knyaz ... -sky"
Muslim: generic "Emir of".
Coast of arms: from the base SS6.4 unless explicitly described here.
Names of provinces: from the base SSHIP unless explicitly described here.

A question is: shouldn't the PTs in this part of the map hold the title of "Sheikh"?

[Jurand of Cracow]

IV. Faction specific features

The Crown of Turks is discussed in this entry.
(once finished and implemented, it might be copied here as well)

The Offices are described in this thread.


The Abbasids have access to some buildings that may be not available to every faction.
Abbasid Blood: not checked.

Specific traits: not checked.

[Jurand of Cracow]

V. Starting position in 1132 (incl. settlements, armies, generals, traits, political situation)

to be developed in due course

[Jurand of Cracow]

VI. Units

Oghuz horse archer is such a blessing for middle eastern faction. They are the weakest horse archer with the less amount of ammo and it doesn't matter because each Castle with stable have a manpower of 5-6 cavalry. In an early game where manpower are scarce Oghuz horse archer save the day as a disposable but still valuable glass cannon that can rack up some kill before die as a bait. They also weirdly useful in siege because apparently one of the good way to rack up kill is inside castle around the gate area and shoot anyone that is not engaged with my assault army in the gate(thanks Abbasid ai that kill 75% of my bodyguard with this strategy) This would be a manpower draining move but Oghuz horse archer just so happen to be disposable enough to fit the job. And of course Oghuz are useful as garrison since they cheap and can be used to inflate the garrison score in a pinch. All you need are around 500 golds to recruit and upkeep.

Turkoman cavalry theoreticly are better than Oghuz in any way including having more ammo and their price are only very slightly more expensive than Oghuz. However they only provide 3-4 which is still a lot compare to most manpower but not so many to be as disposable in addition Turkoman are a much superior horse archer that you don't want to sacrifice them for little gain anyway.

And poor Bedouin cavalry are never used because they are not recruited from stable, more limited manpower and most importantly, don't have a bow.

Playing Muslim for quite awhile i find myself not really using Fari Cavalry, Fari Archer and Iqtadar.

Fari cavalry and Iqtadar are overly expensive heavy horse archer that cannot really be used in melee and are still easily killed by enemy archer. They also have 'disciplined' formation which is actually worse because it's easier to either shot or caught by enemy cavalry. Turkoman or Oghuz horse archer are way better by being much cheaper and their horde formation make their movement much more fluid.

Fari Archer are suprisingly good but as enemy because they are quite bulky so sending infantry of archer duel will not neccesarily ceased Fari Archer as a threat. But like everything Heavy cavalry(Fari Lancer or Ghulam) kill them easily. Maybe i should use them but Ahdath/Turkish archer are deadly enough with half of Fari archer upkeep.

Khwarezmiya have been a blessing. After sone time i get the Late Ghulam cavalry reform, except i'm not sure why i should recruit them when Khwarezmiya are available, which are cheaper, have more armor than Late Ghulam in exchange for slightly lower melee(like 1 diffrence) but still a high melee for cavalry and high availabilty with large aor recruitment so there are always Khwarezmiyya available.
Maybe once i expand into Europe i would prefer Ghulams again but for now against Mongol and maybe Georgia and Rum when the time comes it's all Khwarezmiyya for me.

[Jurand of Cracow]

VIII. Reserve

to be used if needed

[a Dictator's Cigar]

Hail Strategists!

After going through all of the factions in the past two years I realized that the Abbasid campaign is the most difficult to start with. every time I start an Abbasid campaign I exhaust my Economy and Armies just by blocking the excessive waves of the Seljuk hordes to the point where I'm unable to expand. I tried paying the Seljuks for peace yet they're consisted with their moves of invading my territories. this led me to either lose ground, lose royal generals and go broke in my many attempts as I collapse in front of such challenge.

However, the Abbasid have a uniquely strategic geo-political location and a unique desert army which I always wanted to explore. however all of my attempts where crushed by the excessive Seljuk hords.

I wonder if any of you have tried an Abbasid campaign and survived the Seljuk invasion. and if you did, could you share the Save with us in here? it would be a great opportunity to explore the Abbasid faction while it's in a stable or invasion free period. the save game doesn't have to be highly advanced, instead it could just put the Abbasid kingdom in a situation where it's not under immediate threat by the Seljuks.

Best regards,
Cigar.

[Marus312]

I'm also running a Abbasid campaign. I blitzed straight to their settlement to the east, sacked it, burned some of its buildings, and then gave it back to them a long with 5,000 gold in exchange for peace and trade. Once I got the Seljuks off my back I took the settlement that controls the Arabian desert and just focused on building for several turns.

Before I traded that Seljuk settlement back, I was also able to recruit another merchant which I then put to the gold resource to the east. There is a gold resource on each side of the straight and once my merchants maxed out I was generating 14k a turn just from them. I started rolling in cash and by turn 50 I have 200k and a Great Jama in Baghdad.

The Seljuks did try to start another war, but I just gave them 10,000 gold to go away. I might just keep gifting them until they like me so I can forge an alliance and have them finally attack Georgia instead of me.

Hope this helps.

[a Dictator's Cigar]

I blitzed straight to their settlement to the east, sacked it, burned some of its buildings, and then gave it back to them a long with 5,000 gold in exchange for peace and trade.

Wild move! love it!

Also the intel on the goldmine on the Persian side of the golf is quite helpful. I also kicked off a new campaign on medium campaign difficulty yesterday yet in my case I'm just relying on a single large army on the borders of Basra to block any Seljuk offensive as I empower my economy to expand my military to the point where I could occupy their bordering cities and hand them to the Seljuks of Rum in exchange for an alliance. that's my plan to put an end to the constant Seljuk invasion. I'm looking forward to hear more about your campaign especially as you march to the west into the Zinged territories.



(Pictured: Crown Prince Al Rashid camping in the desert ambushing the invading Seljuk forces coming from the Isfahan region.)

[j.a.luna]

Good campaign! I would like to ask you a few questions regarding these Muslim factions:
1-What do you think of the Abbasid units?( would add hassassins and naffatuns mercenaries???)
2-Do you think the Muslim factions should have more unique units?
3-When do you think the Caliphal Guard can be recruited in Baghdad?
4- Do you think it would be a good option if more religions such as Sunni and Shiites were added for Muslims? and also add the figure of the Great Iman of Baghdad (Caliph as a religious figure) similar to the figure of the Byzantine Ecumenical Patriarch but for Muslims who control Baghdad and have a Great Iman (+8 piety).

[a Dictator's Cigar]

Good campaign! I would like to ask you a few questions regarding these Muslim factions:
1-What do you think of the Abbasid units?( would add hassassins and naffatuns mercenaries???)
2-Do you think the Muslim factions should have more unique units?
3-When do you think the Caliphal Guard can be recruited in Baghdad?
4- Do you think it would be a good option if more religions such as Sunni and Shiites were added for Muslims? and also add the figure of the Great Iman of Baghdad (Caliph as a religious figure) similar to the figure of the Byzantine Ecumenical Patriarch but for Muslims who control Baghdad and have a Great Iman (+8 piety).

Wonderful questions! I'm glad you asked them so I could reflect my opinion towards the realism of the Abassids Faction.

1. The Abbasid units impressively reflect a realistic preview of a traditional Abassid force, however some attention needs to be given to the historical naming of the units, for example the "Fari Lancers" or "Fari Footmen" should actually be fixed to "Fursan Lancers" / "Fursan Footmen" to reflect a more accurate historical naming, same thing with the "Abna spearmen" who should be named "Abna Khurasan Spearmen" and so on(I would love to give more support on that).

Regarding the Hashashin and naffatuns units it is not historically accurate to count them as mercenaries since the Hashashins never acted as a military force but rather as suicidal attackers(Shahid's) who would commit a suicidal attack by order of their leader. and their attacks where mainly aimed at political and religious figures rather than actual military figurers.
On the other hand the Naffatun did function as a formal and common Abbasid military force, however their functionality is disputed since the enemies of the Abbasids always found ways to maneuver the Naffatun's attacks by improving their armor or tactics. Generally, I believe their should be a drastic improvement of the naming of the Abbasid units so it could fit the historical era.


2. Absolutely, The Abbasid era, unlike the Umayyad era, is known to be a highly multi-cultural era, especially in the military aspect. since the Abbasids abandoned their trust in the Arabian tribes to rely on the foreign (Turkish, Persian, African, Kurdish and Armenian) personnel to form their armies, this is how the "Mamluke" figure was created by Muslim kingdoms investing in foreigners as a main component in their armies.

Some units which should be added is the following:

Zenji Warriors: a unit consisting of African warriors bought from slavery by the caliph to become one of his most fierce units, this unit is known to have served in frontlines against the Byzantines and in Persia. the Zenji'ies were poorly armored however they were a main component in every Abbasid campaign especially in its peak during the 9th Century. These Warriors were mainly recruited directly from the slave markets otherwise they were bought from landowner.

Mawali Infantry: The Mawali were the main component of the Abbasid armies since they were the first force to lead the Abbasid rebelion against the Umayyads, thus making them the main structure in every Abbasid military force. the Mawalis were mostly Persian Muslims with utmost loyalty to the Caliph to the point where they ranked up to high positions inside the Abbasid state and society.

Shuttar/Ayarine: This force is mainly made out of Outlaws, thief, and criminals who were recruited in the desperate times in the Abbasid kingdoms and especially during the civil wars. though this force lacked training, yet it showcased supreme loyalty to the Amir an even helped relief Baghdad from it's seige during it's civil war in 813AD. This unit is poorly armored and mostly consisted of infantry fighting in urban territories such as cities and settlements. (In the context of the game they could be recruited as low-tier mercenaries.

3. I'm not sure how to answer this since the Abbasid Kingdom reached it's peak in the early 800's AD and already was collapsing by 1100AD. I Believe a late era building should allow recruiting this force. or whenever the Caliph is crowned this force could be available.

4. Absolutely YES! This is a major flaw in SSHIP. The Fatimids antagonized the Zingeds and Abbasids more than they did to the crusaders just because of the sectarian deferences between both. The Sunni-Shia conflict is the main reason why the middle east was a constant unstable zone even until today. I find it crucial to underline that the Muslim world in the game has two sects fighting each-other especially that these kingdoms are competing over mutual claimed areas(Sunni Zengids/Abbasds/Moors/Seljuks VS Fatimid/Uyunid Rebel Shia's). such fix would increase the complexity of the middle east especially with the Muslim factions since it will increase the importance of the religious institutions in the kingdoms.
Regarding the "Great Imam" figure I find it more suitable to add it to whoever controls the Hijaz region (wherever Mecca and Medina lye) it's the holiest place in Islam and historical was the target of every Islamic empire. during my campaigns with the Muslim factions I never found it attractive to push my armies into Arabia even though historically it's a high ranking goal for any medieval Islamic Kingdom. the idea of having an advantage by controlling such region as a Muslim faction is genius and would add more historical storytelling for any campaign dealing with the middle east.

Finally I would like to add that as I'm playing the Abbasid campaign I feel like the geography of the territory is a bit overlooked. I mean three cities (Baghdad/Wasit/Basrah) don't quite reflect the territory of Iraq. and I feel like their should be at least one or more cities added into the map. maybe the historical city of Kufah in the southern desert of Baghdad. this would bring more realism to the geo-political reality of such period in history.

I really enjoying responding to your questions and would love to answer anything more!

Best Regarsd!
-Cigar

[kostic]

I myself am testing a campaign with the Abbassids.


Your comments are very interesting and the opportunity to reflect on future improvements.


I am on the 21 st round in 1142 and after having repelled several assaults by the Seldjukids, taken the city of Hamadan, I am finally in a phase of respite! Unfortunately I am playing with a test version which includes modifications, especially with the EDB file, and this makes my save probably unusable with the version of your game.

[a Dictator's Cigar]

I am on the 21 st round in 1142 and after having repelled several assaults by the Seldjukids, taken the city of Hamadan, I am finally in a phase of respite!

have you thought of offering Hamadan to another Muslim Kingdom like the Seljuks of Rum in exchange for an alliance? this move can help you relief your forces from holding the territory and advance into other bordering Seljuk territories like Shiraz for example which you could also offer to the Seljuks of Rum after occupying it. what you will gain is 2-regions buffer zone between you and the Seljuks which could ensure you a long term stability and even a more effective campaign against the Zengids.

I'm also on my 23rd turn and that's exactly the move I'm trying to pull in my upcoming 20 turns. would love to hear more about your progress!

Best!

[Macaras]

Hi Guys, I am playing Abbasids campaign too.. What I did was to survive some attacks of the Seljuks, capture Hamadan, then offered them a peace in exchange for 1000 for ten turns, after that they agreed for trade rights and were very happy to sign an alliance. The alliance lasted for 20 something turns which allowed me to capture Tabriz, Alamut and three Zengid's citys. My reputation suffered though - I become very untrustworthy, thats why maybe the Seljuks have just attacked me again.
I think the key is that Abbasids may be very rich very fast - the 3 merchants that are trading gold gave me arround 10000 florins a turn - which allows to sustain a good garrison in the east and keep the seljuks quiet for a time.
No I actually want to go for the war with Seljuks the citadel of Ray seems so close to conquer..

[Jurand of Cracow]

Use that gold intensively because you may not see it there in the future.
For now, the region resources were not reviewed extensively because I've got only scant knowlegde of its medieval economy.
It looks like this

;=========================================================================================================== Turks Seljuks;	iron -> Metals		ivory -> Oil		tobacco -> Salt		chocolate -> Glass		sulfur -> Linen
;	coal -> Herbs		dogs -> Fruits		camels -> Honey		tin -> Luxury Goods		elephants -> Cattle
;	gold, silver, marble, timber, slaves, amber, textiles, dyes, silk, cotton, furs, wool, spices, sugar, wine, grain, fish


;Kerman_Province
resource	spices,	487,	42
resource	coal,	503,	33
resource	slaves,	489,	72


;  KHWARAZM - Urgench_Province
; a very feritile well-watered valley of Oxus
resource	cotton,		504,	152		; Uzbekistan is famous for it until today
resource	cotton,		504,	152
resource	tin,		509,	145		; luxurious products at the capital of the region
resource	grain,		508,	148		; on the Oxus
resource	grain,		501,	158		; in delta of Oxus
resource	grain,		501,	158


;Ray_Province
resource	wool,	457,	96
resource	iron,	473,	103
resource	coal,	444,	95


;Neyshabur_Province
resource	wool,		494,	101
resource	sulfur,		495,	107
resource	chocolate,	491,	110
resource	timber,		501,	102


;Isfahan_Province
resource	iron,	447,	74
resource	chocolate,	438,	87
resource	textiles,	457,	77


;Shiraz_Province
resource	wine,	455,	61
resource	marble,	460,	68
resource	dyes,	462,	48
resource	gold,	474,	45


;Hasankeyf_Province
resource	tin,	367,	118
resource	camels,	376,	118


;Merv_Province
resource	tin,	509,	121
resource	tin,	509,	121
resource	grain,	507,	117
resource	chocolate,	503,	116
resource	elephants,	501,	118


;Hamadan_Province
resource	tin,	427,	101
resource	sulfur,	417,	105


;Tabriz_Province
resource	tin,	415,	117
resource	silver,	420,	119
resource	wine,	410,	111


;Konjikala_Province
resource	tobacco,	462,	132
resource	metals,		494,	122


;Yazd_Province
resource	dogs,	475,	80
resource	textiles,	470,	74


;Alamut_Province
resource	wool,	436,	104

while the regions I know look like this

;=========================================================================================================== HUNGARY; one may consider also: coal -> Herbs		camels -> Honey	   marble, textiles, dyes,


;Esztergom_Province
resource	gold,		211,	196		; GOLD mines in Kremnica (and silver from Banska Bistrica)
resource	wine,		208,	193		; famous Hungarian WINE - historically much exported to Poland
resource	wine,		208,	193
resource	tin,		213,	192		; LUXURIES imported mainly by the church
resource	marble,		230,	197


;Szekesfehervar_Province
resource	chocolate,	212,	184		; GLASS producers around the city (might be exchanged into textiles etc. if more info is around).
resource	elephants,	213,	179		; CATTLE provided by semi-nomadic people
resource	grain,		216,	187		; GRAIN from the feritile lands along Danube.
resource	sulfur,		204,	188		; LINEN produced in this coutry


;  ALFOLD - Varad_Province
; This was not very wealthy province in MA, don't add more resources.
resource	elephants,	221,	178		; CATTLE provided by semi-nomadic people
resource	elephants,	221,	178		; double so that it's a place for a merchant


;  ERDELY - Gyulafehervar_Province
; Very rich in resources, especially metals. It grows also with build-up of the infrastructure (mines).
resource	silver,		246,	194		; SILVER in the north (Nagybanya and Szatmar).
resource	iron,		254,	178		; METALS in the south, but actually available in the whole province
resource	dogs,		239,	179		; FRUIT to signify the fertility of the region.
resource	tobacco,	250,	183		; SALT in Turda.


;  CROATIA - Zagreb_Province
; Rich and feritile province. It will create a lot of trade also by importing resources from the neighbours.
resource	dogs,		190,	172		; FRUIT to signify the fertility of the region.
resource	grain,		198,	176		; GRAIN from the feritile lands along the rivers.

[a Dictator's Cigar]

@JoC What do you think about the current settlements layout in Arabia and Iraq?

As I campaign as the Abbasids I started to explore the map of my "claimed territories" and realized for the first time a trade road connecting between Al-Basra in Iraq to Tayma in West Arabia. and Ironically the road between both regions is empty and free. no obstacles nor forts to turn crossing the Arabian desert into a real challenge. I wonder what's your opinion on a desert FORT setting in the heart of Arabia resembling the Najd region, this will give a motive for the Muslim armies to take the battle into the heart of Arabia since there will be what's worth fighting for between the Fatimid Tayma and Abbasid Baghdad.




In this humble depiction I marked the trade roads around the middle east with a black line, the major settlements in black circles, and the suggested new settlements in red squares. I'm suggesting two settlements.

1: Husn Najd(Najd's Fort): which lye's in the heart of Arabia and functions as the connecting area between Arabia and Iraq(today it's the Capital of Saudi Arabia). historically this region was known to be the source of many raids into the levant and Iraq for it's strategic location deep in the desert where not the Byzantines nor Persians would rather risk entering there.

2. Al Kufa: it's a holy city for the Shiites and sets in the southern desert of Wasit, it's historically known as the Gateway for the Arab Caravans and Armies crossing Arabia into Iraq.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Well, I'm not against because I'm against but rather that we don't have a map modder at this juncture. The resources are modded separately, so I can cover them myself.

As you know, we don't have currently forts. Maybe the Najd would be indeed a good one (Kufa is too close to Baghdad, imo) for a PSFs. However, if the forts would make a come back to the SSHIP, they would rather be temporary, built at a punitive cost by the player. I suspect you already know my opinion on this, otherwise read one of the links that are in my sig.

[a Dictator's Cigar]

Understood, and again, would love to give support and research regarding any development in the middle east factions and territories. Best!

[Macaras]

Understood, and again, would love to give support and research regarding any development in the middle east factions and territories. Best!

Hi Dictator's cigar, would you mind to look at these units, and share your comments about what should be improved? These are units currently available for Zengids and Abbasids, but many of them are common to all Muslim factions:


LANDOWNERS:


Fari Lancers
Fari Archers
Dismounted Fari Lancers
Dismounted Fari Archers
Iqtadar
Bodyguards

STABLES:

Turkish Horse Archers
Turkomans
Arab Cavalry (light cav, strong charge, spears - arab merchant cavalry)(only Z)
Jaridah Cavalry (light sword cavalry)
Abtal Cavalry (heavy, weak skill def, lancers)
Tawashi Cavalry (light professional cavalry)
Mamluks
Mamluk Archers
Ghulams (replaced by mamluks after mamluk_rise event)
Turkish Ghulams
Quapukulu (strong lancers, professional)(Zengids -era1)
Khassaki (Z) (v.strong lancers)
Amirs Guard (Ghulaman-i Khass)
Sibyan al Khass (Persian Horse Archers)(Abbasids -era1)

CITY BARRACKS:
ME Halberd Militia
Ahdah Militia
ME Crossbowmen
Shurtah Militia
Al Haqa Infantry (Ahdah sword Militia)

BARRACKS:
Shurtah Militia
Ahdah Militia
Dismounted Ghulams
Dismounted Late Ghulams (armored spearman) (only turks+abbasids)
Turkish Javelinmen
Kurdish Javelinmen
Afghan Javelinmen
ME Heavy Spearmen
Dismounted Arab Cavalry (Arab Infantry)
Tabardariyya (A)
Abna Heavy Spearmen (A)
Abna Heavy Axemen (A)
Caliphs Guard (A)
Persian Spearmen (A)


RANGE UNITS:
Levy archers
Turkish Archers
Ahdah Archers
Berber Archers (AOR)
ME Heavy Archers
Dismounted Mamluk Archers
Ottoman Infantry
Turkish Crossbowmen

TEMPLE:
Mutatawi

ALCHEMIST:
Naffatun


GUNPOWDER
ME Hand Gunners
Sudanese Gunners