RUM

[Rheinländer]

I am mad not because it is historically inaccurate I am mad because I believe it is made intentionally. There is a huge hate exist against Turkey/Muslim people in EU. So you put Rum Kingdom instead of Devletül Seljuk. And put Seljuk's to the near to end of map and call is historically accurate and wishing history is like that and telling everybody it is historically accurate is a big lie and shamefull.

The only one who argues by using prejudice is you. You speak about the EU in combination with anti Turk/Muslim propaganda by using anti EuropeanErdogan propaganda. You are right, there are people who hate Turks or the Muslims but most of them are called right wingextremists, and they are far away form being the majority (btw these people talk the same way about the EU as you do). If I would argue like you I would've said: “Typical Turks. All of them are terrorists who want to kill people because they have another religion!” but I know most of the Turks aren't people like these, nor is every TurkanErdogan Fanboy. I'm from Germany, here are many turks and they live here as part of the society, when I was younger I often went to turkey for holidays and guess what neither did any friend or family member said “why do you go over there?!?” nor weren't/aren't the newspapers full of anti Turkish articles (maybe except far right new but I never consumed these). It's always the same, it seems to be very easy to get people to blame the ones they don't know. Here in Germany, most people who hate foreigners live in regions where nearly no foreign people live - you are doing the same, hate sth you don't know by criticizing people for sth they don't do. I know, when the EU or single European governments are criticizing Erdogan, he turns it by telling the Turkish public: They said sth against the Turks! But that's not the case, you don't believe me? Well, you are able to communicate in english, so it should be easy for you scrolling through news from Europeanmainstream news.

[_TotalWar_]

Thank you for your kind answer now I feel shameful for my attack because you really seem don't know in deep and want to explore so I will make a big post to inform you mod developers about those times geography and history. I hope my efforts will change something in the future. I would really like to play truthfully accurate middle east campaign.

Yo mate, you keep talking about the 1070's, this mod starts in 1132. You know, stuff happened during those six decades in the Seljuk Empire and all over the place. Go read some History books. I repeat, HISTORY books. That's the only thing someone can tell you, as a friendly advice - because History is so much more interesting than nationalistic propaganda.

[kostic]

Wowwww... alright alright nice wish. Let me tell you the what happened

Turks were coming from Asia as always, invading european countries. But this time they thought like "oh actually why we always go back instead of staying and getting benefit of these filthy resources". So Turks decided to move to Anatolia. At that times Byzantine Empire (aka old East Roman Empire) were holding those lands (Anatolia). Not rums or georgians. They were crashed and destroyed when the first Turk wave came (which starts at 1077 but I will talk about it later just wait <3). They were so weak even Byzantine Empire were not counting them as a Sultanate or Kingdom. They were weak villages which is not even able to decline tribute. Or their words were not even cared about any other middle east factions. But interestingly mod developers and EU people just care so much about those little tribes. Whatever lets continue with how Turks were at Anatolia how georgia and rums were not sultanate or kingdom. Firstly Turks started to enter anatolia at 1071 with Manzikert (Malazgirt in real name) battle against byzantine. thats what "books" , "encyclopedia" , "wikipedia", "history" says. I mention these because I am not talking from my mind. I will share resources don't worry . There were byzantine at that fight agains seljuks. But mod developers put rum kingdom at that territory which is interesting maybe coincidence who knows. let me share you some images then I will continue:


So it is easy to see there is no rum sultanate yep? whatever let me show you more and what happened after that because you won't be satisfied.
So as you can see it is easy to see that Turks fought agains byzantine at 1077 for Nicaea and took it. Then they stayed there this was the first time they didn't go back.
more more all from wikipedia Idk what else to say and if you need historically accurate info I can give it all day long

I believe there is confusion. The sultanate of roum (or rum) is indeed a Turkish Seljuk state. But as I said in my previous message, the empire split into several rival Turkish states (at the death of Malik Shah I in 1092); which also allowed the Crusaders to come and settle. Without these divisions, it is likely that the Crusaders would never have reached Jerusalem.
SSHIP attempts to replicate these divisions. The Sultanate of Roum (Seljuk) is therefore in rivalry, for example, with that of Zengid, itself having to fight against the inclinations of independence of the Caliph of Baghdad ...
The map above is correct but it does not highlight the dissent between the Turkish states of the time. However, even if the orange color seems to show the uniformity of the Seljuk territory, we can clearly see the drawing of the borders: from left to right:
1 - The Sultanate (Seljuk) of Rum
2- The Danichmendid state (?)
3- The emirate of Aleppo (Zengid)
4- The Abbasid Caliphate
5- The Shah Arslan I (?)

[Kilo11]

Thank you for your kind answer now I feel shameful for my attack because you really seem don't know in deep and want to explore so I will make a big post to inform you mod developers about those times geography and history. I hope my efforts will change something in the future. I would really like to play truthfully accurate middle east campaign.

Information would be much appreciated berat (I hope the shortening of your name is alright, but I thrive on nicknames and little shortcuts through all the long names one finds on the fora )! Also, do be sure to provide some peer-reviewed sources if you can. Wikipedia is always a good starting point, and is something we all obviously use, but before we commit to comprehensive changes -- which are a lot of work, just to make that clear -- we make sure those changes reflect the current historical scholarship about the time and region. And that does not mean just the historical scholarship that comes out of Oxford or Cambridge exclusively. If you are familiar with good archeological or historical departments at universities in Asia Minor, Arabia, or the greater Persian area, do share those! Everyone on our team is a lover of history, and is rather more interested in the truth than in narrow nationalistic or ethnic world-building. We might need help translating the materials that are in languages we don't know, but if you'll provide that help, we are more than happy to have a look at them all!

The only one who argues by using prejudice is you. You speak about the EU in combination with anti Turk/Muslim propaganda by using anti EuropeanErdogan propaganda. You are right, there are people who hate Turks or the Muslims but most of them are called right wingextremists, and they are far away form being the majority (btw these people talk the same way about the EU as you do). If I would argue like you I would've said: “Typical Turks. All of them are terrorists who want to kill people because they have another religion!” but I know most of the Turks aren't people like these, nor is every TurkanErdogan Fanboy. I'm from Germany, here are many turks and they live here as part of the society, when I was younger I often went to turkey for holidays and guess what neither did any friend or family member said “why do you go over there?!?” nor weren't/aren't the newspapers full of anti Turkish articles (maybe except far right new but I never consumed these). It's always the same, it seems to be very easy to get people to blame the ones they don't know. Here in Germany, most people who hate foreigners live in regions where nearly no foreign people live - you are doing the same, hate sth you don't know by criticizing people for sth they don't do. I know, when the EU or single European governments are criticizing Erdogan, he turns it by telling the Turkish public: They said sth against the Turks! But that's not the case, you don't believe me? Well, you are able to communicate in english, so it should be easy for you scrolling through news from Europeanmainstream news.

Rhineländer, I know your heart is in the right place, but this is not really the place for this discussion. Please try to keep the talk here exclusively to talk regarding the SSHIP submod, and restrict discussions of politics, ideology, or current affairs to the relevant areas of the forum. Again, I know where you are coming from, and I entirely agree, but this is not really the place for that discussion. Sorry for cutting you off, and I hope you get where I am coming from.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Event Millet-i Rum added:

{RUM20_MILLETI_RUM_BODY}Rūm millet (millet-i Rûm), or "Roman nation", was the name of the Eastern Orthodox Christian community in the Ottoman Empire. Despite being subordinated within the Ottoman political system, the community maintained a certain internal autonomy. \n\nGAME STRATEGY: For the Muslim factions the unrests in Constantinople will ease a bit, and the integration of the ex-Byzantine provinces will proceed faster. \n\nAfter the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire in 1453, all Orthodox Christians were treated as a lower class of people. The Rum millet was instituted by Sultan Mehmet II who set himself to reorganise the state as the conscious heir of the East Roman Empire. The millet-i Rum community became a basic form of social organization and source of identity for all the ethnic groups inside it and most people began to identify themselves simply as "Christians".
{RUM20_MILLETI_RUM_TITLE}Millet-i Rûm

if RandomPercent < 20
and I_EventCounter FL_is_crowned_ruler == 1
and I_SettlementOwner Constantinople = rum
and I_SettlementOwner Nicaea = rum
and I_SettlementOwner Smyrna = rum

log -------------------- Millet-i Rum ----------------------------------------

historic_event RUM20_MILLETI_RUM factions { rum, byzantium, zengid, georgia, abbasid, egypt, jerusalem, hungary, venice, }


if not I_IsFactionAIControlled rum
inc_event_counter rum20_milleti_rum_player 1
end_if


end_if

if I_EventCounter rum20_milleti_rum_player == 1 ; Mileti-i Rum established
and I_EventCounter faction_turn_islam == 1 ; for all Muslim factions
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_huge == 0 ; only if Byzantium is in decline
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_large == 0
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_medium == 0
inc_counter Constantinople_turmoil_points -4
if I_EventCounter FL_policy_thinks_of_his_people == 1 ; if FL pursues a conducive policy
inc_event_counter Constantinople_turmoil_points -4
end_if
end_if

if I_EventCounter rum20_milleti_rum == 1 ; Mileti-i Rum established
and I_EventCounter faction_turn_islam == 1 ; for all Muslim factions
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_huge == 0 ; only if Byzantium is in decline
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_large == 0
inc_event_counter Smyrna_turns_in_our_realm 1 ; integration is faster
end_if

[MoorsihSultan]

there's something to add here
because the game start in 1132 so the sultan is Mesud or in history books Giyasseddin mesud (idk if it's possible to make the names a bit longer) and the heir is Kiliç arslan i see only the name of kiliç even if he's a sultan or heir just merge them without space Kiliçarslan , about last name (idk if it's possible to leave it without last name) if it's not just make Suleymansahoglu (descandant of Suleymansah the founder of the sultanate) or Kutalmisoglu (alparslan's uncle and suleymanshah's father) + make kiliçarslan had already sons without waiting for names to get generated) hsitorically he had 11 sons ( there's already a war for throne happened during 3rd crusade) because you can choose only 4 just choose ( Gyaseddin keyhusrev the successor , arslanshah , tugrulshah , kutbeddin ) + some names must be a last name ( keikubad , keyhusrev , keykavus) idk if it be can associated with first names example : first name ( alaaddin keykubat )+ last name i told you . + why cant you add a few cities ( 3 max in the west ) so you can protect angora and konya from invasion and can protect Nikaia and smyrna ( proposing Bursa + alasehir or philadelpheia + eskisehir ) + script an event in 1243 provide that a huge mongol army coming after you in kosedag so the aftermath of this battle can make new beyliks appear (ottoman , karamanids , aydinids...)

[Khevsur]

I want Sultanate of Rum and Seljuk Empire to be well-made - to defeat them with new Georgian units, as in Battle of Didgori in 1121,Battle of Shamkor 1195 and Battle of Basiani in 1202.

[MoorsihSultan]

use this flag instead it's different from those of great seljuks

[Jurand of Cracow]

use this flag instead it's different from those of great seljuks

Frankly speaking, I would indeed prefer this flag to be used, as compared to the current one. And I'd prefer a light blue for the graphical parts related to the Rum faction. But we would need a modded to do a submod with all the elements put together. They're probably available in the other mods, so if any modder would do it, then it would be checked as a submod, then it would be included in the game.

[MoorsihSultan]

what do you think about my proposals about the names of characters adding some regions " i know you cannot add more than 200" but really you can delete some regions from the HRE you'll find a way because they're not under threat , for byzantium nikaia is close to angora so if rums invade and take nikaia you're *****ed up (sorry) , for rum the same because the settlement is close to attaleia there isnt any city to protect the capital

[Jurand of Cracow]

what do you think about my proposals about the names of characters adding some regions " i know you cannot add more than 200" but really you can delete some regions from the HRE you'll find a way because they're not under threat , for byzantium nikaia is close to angora so if rums invade and take nikaia you're *****ed up (sorry) , for rum the same because the settlement is close to attaleia there isnt any city to protect the capital

1. names - the issues here are (1) they need to be universal: they'll linger in the file from which the game engine will take names for the future characters (incl. spies, assassins etc.). So they need to be generic / universal. The Suleymansahoglu looks convincing for me, but we must allow any character during the next 400 year to get it. I'm not sure if Kilij already had children in 1132? Maybe you can provide a releavnt familiy tree for this year?
2. provinces - one need to balance the whole Europe and Middle East and N.Africa for 400 years. In almost each parts of the map there's a need for more provinces. In the Balkans, the provinces are "needed" for instance for another small faction - Serbia. All in all - the changes cannot be radical, just marginal. I see the need of a province between Smyrna and Konya rather for gamepleay - to make this part of the map living. Otherwise all movements are Nikaia - Angora/Konya (as eg Attaleai doesn't have land connection along the coast). Now we need to (1) which province on the map can be deleted (one in Spain? Visby?) (2) decide if theres no other place on the map that this province would be even more justified (Barca? Ansli / NiznyNovgorod ? Ireland?)
3. scripted Kose Dag - yes, this is planned and will be done as a part of the re-coding of the Mongol invasions. The representation of the beylics is not possible in the way we'd like to (separate factions).

[vovery]

Now we need to (1) which province on the map can be deleted (one in Spain? Visby?)

As one who plays mostly factions from Northern Europe I must say that it would be sad to see such a central trade hub of the Hanseatic League in the Baltic from 12th to 14th century removed. From what I've witnessed, the AI does even attack human controlled Visby with disembarkations, so it's not like Visby would be a safe haven for the player that doesn't see any action.

But I know it's tough battling with the hard-coded limitations of the M2TW engine.

[MoorsihSultan]

i have some suggestions , why not adding dorylaeum (eskisehir) in the map , adding Konya sarayi (palace) as wonders and by 1240 approximately adding mevlana medressesi ( famous school in konya)

[Jurand of Cracow]

i have some suggestions , why not adding dorylaeum (eskisehir) in the map , adding Konya sarayi (palace) as wonders and by 1240 approximately adding mevlana medressesi ( famous school in konya)

Hi, indeed a wonder in Konya is planned, it'll be rather the masjid realated to the sultans' turbes (the Green one or Kilij Arslan or Alladin? I don't remember). Mevlana medressin would also be possible but I'm not sure I'll spend now more time to code it. Adding Eskisehir is not possible as were're not adding more settlments. I agree though that this part of the map is a bit empty... but there're hardcoded limits in the Med2 engine.

[LeoMajor]

Your northern army starts off in the hills that's suppose to be outside of a city Sinope.... but the way the terrain is you actually are blocked off and have to come back down and go around to reach it

Just looks like a huge oversight

[a Dictator's Cigar]

Your northern army starts off in the hills that's suppose to be outside of a city Sinope.... but the way the terrain is you actually are blocked off and have to come back down and go around to reach it

Just looks like a huge oversight

I actually like that detail on the map. it underlines the hight of the geography above sea level on the shores of the black sea. one of my first moves in the first turn of my Seljuks of Rum campaign was to lay a watchtower exactly where that army spawned NE of angora, it was a perfect position to monitor Byzantine movement on the shores of the black sea without needing to occupy a settlement on the shores. that's geographically acurate in my opinion.

[dnzunlu]

The Turkish user was tripping because the name "Rum" has become synonymous with "the enemy" in modern Turkey. They don't know that their ancestors used to refer to themselves as Rumi. Even in modern history books the sultanate of Rum is called the "Anatolian Seljuk State", and Turks as a whole are completely lost when it comes to their own history.

Ps. I do think the dynasty name and flag change and some unit changes would be great for this faction.