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Thread: GEORGIA

  1. #61

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    I do not know how to create unit models.
    In the future I might try.
    I am an 'artist', but not as good as you - I only sketch. I do not think I will be able to help you anytime soon. I heavily referenced this, so it is not my best work. This drawing is not medieval at all.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    And, bro, are you an artist or a model lmao.
    Hopefully, in the future we can all make good georgian units.

  2. #62

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Wow, this is very interesting. It seems Khevsur dreams may come true - more Georgian units! (although he may perceive it as a nighmare...)

    Make your submod, @umbracatervae, let's see how do they perform in practice. Then we may cooperate if you would like to, this may be very interesting to make the SSHIP more exciting for the players!
    I'm not just adding more units, instead i rework roster by adding new units and remove some units which Georgia should not have. Like horse archers and multirole heavy melee/ranged units (for multirole units i think that's will be better if implemented on Great Seljuk or Rum Sultanate roster).


    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    @umbracatervae : Would you agree to send me your Georgian units mesh and textures + battlemodel.modeldb so that I integrate them in the next version of SSHIP (possibly correcting some details to make them historically as believable as possible)?

    @Khevsur : You are extremely picky and for the moment the only "specialist" in Georgia of the Middle Ages. As I also have other units to work on - I am remaking Muslim units at the moment - I am waiting to get a more precise personal idea before I start modifying Georgian units.


    Besides, I do well to wait ; other modders are offering their units right now !
    You may not realize how much time it takes to modify, integrate and then test a new unit. I would really like to move faster but I'm just a modder, not a professional.
    I made a schedule in which I will maybe add the work on Georgia ...

    I will send the files soon

  3. #63

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    While I was reading the thread, particularly Khevsur stressing a bit the work on the units, it made me feel like giving out a motivational speech for umbracatervae777

  4. #64
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    I'm not just adding more units, instead i rework roster by adding new units and remove some units which Georgia should not have. Like horse archers and multirole heavy melee/ranged units (for multirole units i think that's will be better if implemented on Great Seljuk or Rum Sultanate roster)
    Let's have a few units to chose from. The current problem with the Georgian roster is that we have superheavy troops but we lack the light ones. The Metsihovne are much better than other militia units in game, and we have neither light spear nor light axe units (only the tribal Caucasian Hillmen). We really need Glekhi - light axe Georgian-only unit.

  5. #65
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777


    You know how to create units.You're doing well.But you do not know the military history of Georgia. Please believe me






    Jurand of Cracow

    in IX-XIV centuries Georgian peasants did not fight, Very rarely did they go to war. They had a spear, a bow and a shield. Axes were not used (Or very rarely were,For example palace guard ) in the medieval Georgian army . Georgian mountaineers did not fight with axes, they fought with swords and shields, also had bow. There were only two horse armored cavalry, Tadzreuli cavalry and Chukchi BodyGuard cavalry

    Axeman Georgian highlanders? Are you joking? - this is absurd !


    East Georgian Highlander - Mtieli , They are grand masters Fencing
















    I had a consultation with Georgian military historians. My roster is scientifically and historically accurate.Please do not give non-historical armor and weapons, Please do not try to change, Because nonsense will come out. My roster represents the medieval Georgian army




    The feudal lord was at war. The peasant worked in the garden and in the field, The priest was praying




    For those who want to learn the military history of Georgia, read its articles

    https://independent.academia.edu/MamukaTsurtsumia

    I have his book: Medieval Georgian Army (900-1700): Organization, Tactics, Armament. Tbilisi, 2016. Pg. 782 (In Georgian)


    Last edited by Khevsur; February 02, 2021 at 11:22 AM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Did they fight with javelin too?

  7. #67
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777

    javelins were used in the Bronze age and Hellenistic periods georgia .

    Javelins were not used in medieval Georgia



    Why are you trying to change my roster?Even though you do not know the military history of Georgia.

    If you change Georgian Roster and Warriors , please do not name the Georgian army. Give it another name For example Bantu warriors





    warriors units lamellar plates is very big ,Resize it. create foreign helmets in Monaspa. Create Georgian helmets in Tadzreuli, Chukchi , Aznauri , Msakhureuli, Metsikhovne units.

    georgian heavy knights chain-mail on face similar this , Or up to the chin. Use burgundy color for mantles and dark red colors for clothing .also georgians wore epiloricion s on armor. use chain-mail and lamellar armors for horses



    Georgians have cataphracts cavalry . in V-XV centuryes , They were lords, They had a lot of property.They were in heavier armor, Than Byzantian cathaprachts , But They were few, small kings units. Maximum 500-1500 knight.Georgia had a professional warrior feudal Military aristocracy. They hated the bow. The bow was a disgrace to them. They loved to fly a man in the air with heavy long spear, cut off heads, cut in the middle of a man, cut off hands.




    Aznauri were also proffesional shock cavalry knigths ,They had no chain armor on their faces,some warriors wore chain-armor on body . They had no horse armor,only had Light armor of the horse neck, see my old posted photos.
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 02, 2021 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #68
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA






    georgian highlanders shield. georgian highlanders have smoky black shields , enemy Called the name - "Blackshielders" georgian .shavparosnebi .They were very strong guerrilla warriors
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    East - Central Georgian Highlanders leather-iron 33 - 36 cm shields







    Georgian swords evolution


    up Georgian XI-XIII century Sword. Down georgian Remade sword For Kypchak mercerany Warrior - For Monaspa units

    Georgian XIV-XVIII century sword





















    this is West Georgian Highlander - Svan warrior . The Svan warrior will be this. cloth slightly change.The bullets on chest will be deleted.



    Svans 50-55 cm shields








    I find it difficult to get in touch here, Facebook is better for working online.There are many minor details to consider
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 06, 2021 at 02:25 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Splendid! No doubt that you did a well research.

    But sorry to say, i cannot do that in a short time. I'm not that expert on making unit meshes (i use Rusichi-made units as a base, then i retexture it). Maybe you'll see a very accurate models in a later version, just patience.

    What i'm focused (in my sub-submod, or a submod within a submod. I think JoC have another idea) is what briefly Georgian Medieval Army is all about. Focused on shock cavalry, well armoured melee cavalry and infantry, but have a weak ranged units (no javelin, only a few archer, no crossbow initially). That's it

  10. #70
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    Splendid! No doubt that you did a well research.

    But sorry to say, i cannot do that in a short time. I'm not that expert on making unit meshes (i use Rusichi-made units as a base, then i retexture it). Maybe you'll see a very accurate models in a later version, just patience.

    What i'm focused (in my sub-submod, or a submod within a submod. I think JoC have another idea) is what briefly Georgian Medieval Army is all about. Focused on shock cavalry, well armoured melee cavalry and infantry, but have a weak ranged units (no javelin, only a few archer, no crossbow initially). That's it
    I think it is better to create one unit step by step. I will help you even in small details. Write to me before starting work. The Georgian army did not use javelins. The main force was the shock cavalry, Castle Garrison and aggresive guerilla warriors - Free highlanders. svan Spearmen\ Crossbowmen were in XV century.


    Georgian Peasants actively fought in the late Middle Ages. Because in XV century Georgia was divided into small kingdoms. Because of this, the number of professional warriors was small. The economy also fell. The peasant was not a professional warrior. strength of the Georgian army fell.


    about warrior spirit Of East Georgian highlander warriors. Many of my family died there. I'm from the East Caucasus mountains


    east georgian highlander warrior did not run away from the battle. Escape from battle was a shame. They won or died.loser did not return home


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Aragvians
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 06, 2021 at 08:00 AM.

  11. #71
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    georgian infantry spears
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Peasants spear








    XI-XIII centuries Georgian Shock Cavalry Spears













    georgian spears were Created of Bamboo, Fraxinus, Pine, spruce and apple tree.



    ...............................................................................................................


    Georgian nobles Belts With precious stones

    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 06, 2021 at 02:23 AM.

  12. #72
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Your documentation is precise but it is indeed necessary to concentrate on the period XIIe XIIIe century since the player starts from there to remake the history in its way, the veracity of the following century has for me less importance.
    This last drawing of a knight gives a very precise idea of ​​a heavy rider of the time.
    I hope umbracatervae will be inspired. If I manage to advance on my side on the other units that I am working, I will probably come back to the work of the Georgian units.

  13. #73
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    Your documentation is precise but it is indeed necessary to concentrate on the period XIIe XIIIe century since the player starts from there to remake the history in its way, the veracity of the following century has for me less importance.
    This last drawing of a knight gives a very precise idea of ​​a heavy rider of the time.
    I hope umbracatervae will be inspired. If I manage to advance on my side on the other units that I am working, I will probably come back to the work of the Georgian units.
    last cavalry were Aznauri Cavalry . Tadzreuli cavalry have full horse armors, but Tadzreuli unit were small.

  14. #74
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    You do realise that this guy belongs to Scolarii Regiment of the Tagmatic Units of the 10th century of the Roman Army , don't you?
    No one ever made heavier cavalry than those untill Mongols came to the region.
    No Georgian could have more lands than the Military families of the Romans in the eastern fronts that could have 1000 to 6000 personal guards each !!!! and enough lands to suport them!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  15. #75
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You do realise that this guy belongs to Scolarii Regiment of the Tagmatic Units of the 10th century of the Roman Army , don't you?
    No one ever made heavier cavalry than those untill Mongols came to the region.
    No Georgian could have more lands than the Military families of the Romans in the eastern fronts that could have 1000 to 6000 personal guards each !!!! and enough lands to suport them!

    yes. on photo painted bizantine cataphract.


    Georgians elite nobles were more armored, compared to bizantine cataphracts.


    The Georgian elite was buying with his own money- weapons and armors. emperor giving armors and weapons bizantine cataphracts. Georgian horses were boiled in the heat, ... because they had very heavy armor



    bizantine cataprachts were elite feudals ? Tadzreuli were elite feudals.
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 05, 2021 at 09:57 AM.

  16. #76
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    Georgians elite nobles were more armored, compared to bizantine cataphracts.


    The Georgian elite themselves bought weapons and armor. emperor giving armors and weapons bizantine cataphracts.




    bizantine cataprachts were elite feudals ? Tadzreuli were elite feudals.
    More heavier than the Roman (Byzantine) cataphracts?
    They had 3 layers of armor , so heavy that each one of them needed a squire to carry the armor's parts and help the soldier use it.'
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Put aside your nationalistic point of view and see history with clear eyes.
    If Georgians were heavier than Romans and Armenian cataphracts Nikephoros Phokas and Ioannes Tzimiskes would copy them not the Armenians!
    Above you can see a "soldier's" armor not even a officer's one!
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 05, 2021 at 06:10 PM.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  17. #77
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    Georgians elite nobles were more armored, compared to bizantine cataphracts.


    The Georgian elite themselves bought weapons and armor. emperor giving armors and weapons bizantine cataphracts.




    bizantine cataprachts were elite feudals ? Tadzreuli were elite feudals.
    More heavier than the Roman (Byzantine) cataphracts?
    They had 3 layers of armor , so heavy that each one of them needed a squire to carry the armor's parts and help the soldier use it.'
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Put aside your nationalistic point of view and see history with clear eyes.
    If Georgians were heavier than Romans and Armenian cataphracts Nikephoros Phokas and Ioannes Tzimiskes would copy them not the Armenians!
    Above you can see a "soldier's" armor not even a officer's one!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  18. #78
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    More heavier than the Roman (Byzantine) cataphracts?
    They had 3 layers of armor , so heavy that each one of them needed a squire to carry the armor's parts and help the soldier use it.'
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Put aside your nationalistic point of view and see history with clear eyes.
    If Georgians were heavier than Romans and Armenian cataphracts Nikephoros Phokas and Ioannes Tzimiskes would copy them not the Armenians!
    Above you can see a "soldier's" armor not even a officer's one!

    Are you a military historian?You are a nationalist. I uploaded military historian papers , Please read. I just want to create a Georgian army in the game, You are offended. You want Byzantium to be the best.

    Georgian feudal lords had the heaviest body and horse full armor. Georgian feudal lords wore lamellar armor on chain-mail armor. Servants served them . Georgia was a small country, it had a small, but strong army. They had the best armor and weapons .

    Armenians? Disintegrated Armenia was the territory of Georgia in the Middle Ages.Georgians defended them From Muslims - At their request


    Georgians helped the Byzantines(phokas) against Skleros and They won.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 05, 2021 at 08:09 PM.

  19. #79
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    East Georgian highlanders have profesional guerilla Night warriors- "Blackshields",They wore black clothes, they had Smoke blackened small Shields and swords. The enemy was very afraid of them.The enemy named them - Persian "Kara-Kalgan", Georgian "Shavparosnebi", English "Blackshields".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavparosnebi
    https://eurasianet.org/georgia-reviv...rts-traditions



    in video are professional warriors. They are not actors. One of them is my friend






    Georgians have own Traditional battle matrial Art - Georgian Wrestling. This is very Practical wrestling-The enemy is on the ground, you stand on your feet and kill easily.

    https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/chidaob...-georgia-01371


    https://europa.eu/cultural-heritage/...ritage_it.html







    Georgian War Dance
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 07, 2021 at 03:18 AM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Aznauri units

    Spoiler for Aznauri Lancers


    Spoiler for Foot Aznauri

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