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Thread: GEORGIA

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    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default GEORGIA

    I. General information

    This thread is meant to gather all information about the faction and to conduct discussions on the faction related issues.
    The entries should be developed by both the SSHIP team and the interested players.

    It continues the (very long, sometimes heated) discussion conducted in this thread.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; July 04, 2020 at 07:18 AM.

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    Default [F] - Georgia

    II. Strategy & gameplay


    To be developed in due course. If you've played the game with this faction and have insights how to help fellow players, please write a proposal for this section.

  3. #3
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default [F] - Georgia

    III. Provinces (incl. names, provincial titles, resources, map features etc.)

    The provinces that have historically been associated with this faction are listed here - it's usually defined by the "faction_creator" in the "descr_strat.txt" file. However, some may be in another faction's thread - due to historical or purely technical reasons.

    Provincial titles:
    General explanations to be found in the relevant thread on the PTs.
    Catholic: I considered the use of the Hungarian term “Ispán”. However, because the title will be used also by other catholic factions, I've decided to use the Latin term "Comes".
    Orthodox, Muslim: generic "Knyaz of" and "Emir of".
    Coast of arms: have been reviewed and updated to be as historical as possible.
    Name of the settlements: early era / high era / late era. If changes after conquest of another faction/religion, it can be changed through script.

    A general comment on the population: if there're precise numbers in the sources, they mostly seem to be fantasies of some hermits or monks writing their histories with no clue about the real world and real numbers. The second option are the guesses of the national historians that tried to impose ascendancy of their countries also in the past (we were such a big nation with such huuuuge cities).


    Ani (Ani, Ani_Province)
    PT: ..
    CoA: ...
    Settlement name: Ani. A serious question is: should we have in the SSHIP Ani or Dvin (Dabil) ? It seems that Dvin was a bigger, more important city, but it was in the Muslim hands. Ani is obviously the important city in the historical imagination of the Armenians but it was much smaller, and perhaps the political heyday was already behind it, after the takeover by the Byzantines in 1045 (or so). The longer I think about it, the more I deem Dvin being more historical in the mod reality.
    Province name: Armenia. Very ok in English, but one may also consider transiliteration from Arabic: Al-Arminiya .
    Resources: ....
    Fertility: the Arax Valley is very feritile, but the mountains elsewhere not so. Perhaps 3.
    Religion: after the actual (not nominal) take-over by the Muslim emirs in 8th century, the religion has changed only to some extend. It should probably be mixed Orthodox/Muslim, given that Miaphisitism doesn't exist in the SSHIP.



    Interesting read concerning Ani:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Tbilisi (Kartli, xx)
    PT: ..
    CoA: ...
    Settlement name: .....
    Province name: ....
    Resources: ....
    Fertility: ...
    Religion: just conqured by the

    Baku
    (Shirvan,
    Baku_Province)
    PT: ..
    CoA: ...
    Settlement name: Baku. It should probably not be the capital in 1132, but later (1191, after an earthquake). Shemacha before.
    Province name: Shirvan. Looks the right choice for the 12c.
    Resources: ....
    Fertility: ...
    Religion: it was still not entirely Muslim, but maybe a half of population? (a guess).

    Erzurum (Erzurum, Erzurum_Province)
    PT: ..
    CoA: ...
    Settlement name: Qālīqalā in Arabic - is the best for 12c. Later may be changed into Erzurum for the Turks, Karin for the Georgians and perhaps also Latins, Theodosiopoulis for the Byznatines.
    Province name: Armenian Highland. To be thought out.
    Resources: ....
    Fertility: ...
    Religion: deep mountains where people would upheld old religion. Perhaps 50/50 for Orthodox and Muslim.

    A map of the region in AD 1000:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; December 27, 2020 at 05:48 AM.

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    Default [F] - Georgia

    IV. Faction specific features

    The idea of the Crown of Caucasus is discussed in this entry. The historical map justifying the choices is below.

    The Offices are described in this thread. Obviously, they're generic ones, but if one propose a cohesive set of the faction-specific offices (ie names and descriptions - I think the effects should stay similar), they may be well implemented.

    Georgia may have access to a few Orthodox buildings that may be not available to every faction (in particular, to the Ikoner Studio). On the other hand, it doesn't have access to the West European or Muslim ones, so some traits may unavailable (eg. Tourney Knight or Horse Racer).
    Furthermore, many buildings have their benefits tided to the reforms:
    Code:
    building education_university{
      levels school university great_university
      {
        school city requires factions { northern_european, abbasid, egypt, turks, zengid, rum, moors, poland, hungary, russia, kievan_rus, greek, southern_european, }
        {
          capability
          {
            law_bonus bonus 1
          }
          material stone
          construction  4
          cost  2100
          settlement_min city
          upgrades
          {
            university
          }
        }
        university city requires factions { northern_european, abbasid, egypt, turks, zengid, rum, moors, poland, hungary, russia, kievan_rus, greek, southern_european, } and building_present_min_level stonemason stonemason and building_present_min_level education_libraries library
        {
          capability
          {
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { northern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { southern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { hungary, } and event_counter GOLDEN_BULL_HUNGARIAN 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { poland, } and event_counter POLAND4_LOCATION_OF_CRACOW 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { kievan_rus, russia, } and event_counter EUPHROSYNE 1	
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { byzantium, } and event_counter anna_comnena 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { serbia, } and event_counter SERBIAN3_SAINT_SAVA 1
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { georgia, } and event_counter GEORGIAN2_GOLDEN_AGE 1		
            agent diplomat  0  requires factions { middle_eastern, } and event_counter omar_khayyam 1
    
    
            agent_limit diplomat  0
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { northern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { southern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { hungary, } and event_counter GOLDEN_BULL_HUNGARIAN 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { poland, } and event_counter POLAND4_LOCATION_OF_CRACOW 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { lithuania, cumans, } and event_counter MINDAUGAS 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { kievan_rus, russia, } and event_counter EUPHROSYNE 1	
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { byzantium, serbia, } and event_counter anna_comnena 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { serbia, } and event_counter SERBIAN3_SAINT_SAVA 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { georgia, } and event_counter GEORGIAN2_GOLDEN_AGE 1
            agent_limit diplomat  1  requires factions { middle_eastern, } and event_counter omar_khayyam 1
    
    
            law_bonus bonus 2
            happiness_bonus bonus -1
    		
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { northern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1 and not event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_health_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { northern_european, } and event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { southern_european, } and event_counter PRIVILEGIUM 1 and not event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_health_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { southern_european, } and event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { hungary, poland, } and event_counter OSTSIEDLUNG 1 and not event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_health_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { hungary, poland, } and event_counter science_maths_zero_europe 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { lithuania, cumans, } and event_counter MINDAUGAS 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { kievan_rus, russia, } and event_counter EUPHROSYNE 1	
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { byzantium, serbia, } and event_counter anna_comnena 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { serbia, } and event_counter SERBIAN3_SAINT_SAVA 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { georgia, } and event_counter GEORGIAN2_GOLDEN_AGE 1
            population_growth_bonus bonus 2  requires factions { middle_eastern, } and event_counter omar_khayyam 1
    		
    		}


    Georgian Blood: not checked yet.

    Specific traits: not checked yet.

    Georgian Reforms: unlock better troops and increase the replenishment rates, and also impact on the various benefits from the buildings. There're mechanisms (explained in-game) that prompt the reforms. For each there's also a fall-back option: a reform would happen around the time it happened historically, irrespectively of the player's failure to trigger it.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    {GEORGIAN0_STARTING_INFO_BODY}In the High and Late Middle Ages, the Georgian internal and external situation was in a constant state of flux. Kings and warlords struggled for control, invaders would ravage the country and destroy the structures of power, technological advances would change the gear the troops were equipped with. The fortunes of history had a significant impact on country's economy and military. This is represented in the SSHIP via a set of "reforms". They are tied to specific historic events that will come to pass as you develop the Georgian faction. They will make type of units, number of new recruits and benefits of the buildings changing. In addition, a number of external historical events will also have an impact. (Note that at a certain date the reforms will trigger automatically, even if the player has not yet developed the faction. This is also the moment when the AI will start enjoying the benefits of the reforms.){GEORGIAN0_STARTING_INFO_TITLE}Georgian Middle Ages

    {GEORGIAN1_REFORMS_INFO_BODY}\nThere are five reforms for Georgia in the SSHIP:\n\nThe Georgian Golden Age, which historically peaked in the second part of the 12th century, will be triggered once Georgia has constructed three Local Guards and one Ikoner Studio, and the Faction Leader has relations to the royal houses of either Kiev or Byzantium (i.e. his wife or one of his ancestors was of this blood). Alternatively, the Golden Age will start once the Faction Leader holds the Crown. \n\nThe nation's greatest poet, Shota Rustaveli, wrote his oevres in the first half of 13the century. An in-game event to commemorate him will be triggered if two Orthodox Cathedral and three Ikoner Studios have been built by the faction.\n\nMarriages of the Gerogian kings with the princesses from the great royal families of the Latin world (i.e. of German, French, English, Jerusalem or Sicilian bloods) will result in the second part of the 13th century in the introduction of the new crossbow units if 2 Marksmans Ranges were built.\n\nThe Georgian Revival, which historically occurred in the first part of 14th century, will be triggered if an enemy faction (not the rebels) conquered Tbilisi, then Georgia reconquered it, and constructed at least three Provincial Councils while holding a Citadel.\n\nFinally, the creation of the Last United Kingdom in first part of 15th century will will be triggered if Georgia owns a Huge City with a Great Universilty and a Huge Orthodox Cathedral, and also holds a Citadel with a Royal Armoury.
    {GEORGIAN1_REFORMS_INFO_TITLE}Georgian Reforms

    {GEORGIAN2_GOLDEN_AGE_BODY}The Georgian Golden Age spanned from the 11th to the 13th century, during which the Kingdom of Georgia reached the peak of its political power. \n\nThe climax of this period occurred during the rule of queen Tamar Mepe. She was already politically active during the reign of her father, being proclaimed co-ruler in 1178. In 1184 her father died, leaving no male heir, and Tamar inherited the throne. She then ruled Georgia for nearly thirty years, guiding through one of its highest periods. Georgia had become a power in the east, but only twenty years after Tamar's death the Mongol invasions sparked immense political upheavals, eventually leading to Georgia's ultimate demise. \n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: Georgia now has access to better units, many more recruits, and can field a higher number of diplomats.
    {GEORGIAN2_GOLDEN_AGE_TITLE}Georgian Golden Age

    {GEORGIAN3_SHOTA_RUSTAVELI_BODY}The Georgian Golden Age was marked by more than just expansion and military reforms, seeing a flourishing of medieval Georgian architecture, painting, and poetry. These arts were most frequently expressed in the development of ecclesiastic art, but in this period Georgia also saw the creation of its first major works of secular literature. \n\nShota Rustaveli (1172-1216) was the greatest Georgian poet. He was also one of the greatest representatives of the literature of the Orthodox medieval world. He is best known for Vepkhistqaosani "The Knight in the Panther's Skin", an epic adventure about friendship and courtly love.\n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: Theologian guilds provide more religion benefits and increase the maximum number of priests. Heavy infantry feudal units of Chukhchi will be available for recruitment in the castles. Many more recruits will show up to serve in the kings' cavalry Monaspa.
    {GEORGIAN3_SHOTA_RUSTAVELI_TITLE}Shota Rustaveli

    {GEORGIAN4_CROSSBOW_IN_CAUCASUS_TITLE}Crossbow In Caucasus
    {GEORGIAN4_CROSSBOW_IN_CAUCASUS_BODY}\n\nThe use of crossbow was never widespread in the Middle East, the Armenian Highlands and the Caucasus. There was no need for it and the technology did not developed in that direction. However, the contacts with the Latin world added opportunities to learn this type of weapon sometimes in 13th or 14th century. It is debatable if it had a real impact on military in this region but in the SSHIP this possibility has taken in account.\n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: Many more new soldiers are able to operate a crossbow, and recrutiment of new crossbow units is unlocked in Caucausus and the Armenian lands.

    {GEORGIAN5_REVIVAL_ALLOWED_TITLE}Tbilisi is lost!
    {GEORGIAN5_REVIVAL_ALLOWED_BODY}\n\nThe great city of Tbilisi has been conquered by Georgia's enemies! This is a tragic moment for the nation, but brave Georgians should keep their spirits high, as our nation will strike back, retake what is rightfully ours, and we will flourish again.\n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: If Georgia re-captures its capital, this will trigger a new era for the nation, allowing for the recruitment of stronger military units from Georgian lands.

    {GEORGIAN6_REVIVAL_BODY}After a length of Mongol rule marked by constant uprisings, Georgia saw a period of revival under king Giorgi V Brtskinvale ("Illustrious", 1286–1346). He restored the kingdom's unity and also focused on the cultural, social, and economic progress of his realm. He changed the coins issued by Ghazan khan with the Georgian ones, called George's tetri. Between 1325 and 1338, he worked out two major law codes, one regulating the relations at the royal court and the other devised for the peace of a remote and disorderly mountainous district. During his rule, Georgia established close international commercial ties, mainly with the Byzantine Empire, but also with the great European maritime republics, Genoa and Venice.\n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: Georgian recruitment pools of the best, usually heavy-armored units, will replenish faster. Technological change, in form of the improved crossbows, finds its way into the military. There will also be more merchants in the country.
    {GEORGIAN6_REVIVAL_TITLE}Georgian Revival

    {GEORGIAN7_LAST_UNITED_KINGDOM_TITLE}Last United Kingdom
    {GEORGIAN7_LAST_UNITED_KINGDOM_BODY}\n\nIn the first part of 14th century king Aleksandre I Didi (Alexander I the Great) ), of the Bagrationi house, was king of Georgia from 1412 to 1442. He tried to restore the country from the ruins left by the Turco-Mongol warlord Timur's invasions. Unfortunate he may have been in this effort, but he the last ruler of a united Georgia which was relatively free from foreign domination.\n\nIMPACT ON GAMEPLAY: Georgian recruitment pools of the best, usually heavy-armored units, will replenish faster.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 02, 2021 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default [F] - Georgia

    V. Starting position in 1132 (incl. settlements, armies, generals, traits, political situation)


    Provinces
    Starting provinces: Tbilisi, Kutatisi
    Sphere of influence: Tbilisi, Kutatisi, Ani, Baku, Trebizon.
    Hidden resource georgia: Tbilisi, Kutatisi, Ani, Baku, Derbent.
    Hidden resource armenia: many more.

    After much discussion (and tentative addition of Ani in the SSHIP v. 095) it has been decided that Georgia will initially consist of two provinces: Kutatisi and Tbilisi).

    Armies
    A few units garrisoning the settlements (Metsikhovne).
    The remanants of the Davit IV monaspa army: two strong horse units in the field, one in Tbilisi.

    Characters and politics
    With only 3 generals it is difficult to expand and manage the faction.
    After reign of Davit IV the legitimacy of the kings is pretty strong.

    Support for the AI
    Additional army and a general given on turn 2.
    Scripted conquest of Ani in turn 16 (fires very rarely for the Georgian AI usually expands fast in this direction).

    Resources

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    ;  TBILISI - Tbilisi_Province; seem now to be well placed, enough, seem historical
    resource    gold,        398,    143        ; precious metals mined in the mountains around
    resource    wool,        408,    147        ; sheep in the mountain valleys
    resource    wine,        412,    143        ; wine in Telavi but represents the whole wine production that Georgia was famour for
    resource    wine,        412,    143
    
    
    ;  KUTAISI - Kutaisi_Province
    ; seem ok for a province encompassing also Tao-Samcche and Abasgia
    resource    silver,        384,    153        ; precious metals mined in the mountains around    
    resource    iron,        377,    141        ; iron and copper mined in the mountains around (no trade with Ani)
    resource    fish,        372,    155        ; fish from the coast
    resource    camels,        385,    144        ; honey from the woods
    
    
    ;  BAKU - Baku_Province
    resource    fish,        436,    137        ; from the Caspian sea and the rivers'
    resource    textiles,    429,    134        ; to make the region rich, but it's to be checked if fit for the time period
    
    
    ;  ANI - Ani_Province
    resource    iron,    387,    140        ; iron and especially copper the mountains abound (no trade with Kutaisi)
    resource    marble,    389,    132        ; quality stone
    resource    dogs,    400,    135        ; fruits represent the fertile Arax valley
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; December 27, 2020 at 05:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default [F] - Georgia

    VI. Units

    Georgia has a large number of own unique factional units (ie: only Georgia can recruit), perhaps the largest in the whole mod.

    The strength of the Georgian roster is their very high quality (stats), especially heavy armor.
    The weakness is the low availability of the weak units (eg. lack of Spear and Axe Militia), and also low recruitment pools regeneration.

    Changes of the names introduced in the 097:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Kartlian Spearmen -> Metsikovne Spearmen
    Caucasus Hillmen ok
    Metiskhovne Spearmen -> Msakhureuli Spearmen
    Aznauri Nobles -> Aznauri Cavalry
    Tadzreuli Swordsmen -> Msakhureuli Swordsmen
    Khevsur Heavy Infantry -> Chukhchi
    Foot Monaspa lancers -> Foot Monaspa
    Svanian Hunters -> Kartlian Hunters
    Metiskhovne Archers ok
    Foot Monaspa Archers ok
    Royal Monaspa Guard -> Tazreuli
    Georgian Horse Archers -> Msakhureuli Light Cavalry
    Aznauri Lancers ok
    Monaspa Horse Archers ok
    Eristavi Cavalry -> Eristavi Retainers
    Monaspa Lancers ok
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; November 28, 2020 at 09:21 AM.

  7. #7
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default [F] - Georgia

    VIII. Reserve

    to be used if needed

  8. #8

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Just recently play as Georgia again

    I thought changing Tbilisi as city is a bad idea, but i was wrong. Seriously now i have an early game slight economic boost, and also i found that mercenaries base price are cheaper now.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    I feel like if Tbilisi is to be a city, Kutaisi should be a castle, since the nearest castle is Tabriz. Alternatively, Baku could be made into a castle.
    Last edited by Tripledot; April 17, 2020 at 06:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    If I remember correctly, Kutaisi is a castle
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader


  11. #11

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    If I remember correctly, Kutaisi is a castle
    Mmm in the current game(sship 0.9.6) Georgians have 2 settlements:
    -Kutaissi---City (stone wall)
    -Tbilissi---The capital, large city (large stone wall)
    So i dont know if this change is for historical reasons but current gameplay the georgians receive a economical boost due this settlements but they dont have powerful units as in old sship versions with castle settlements.
    Last edited by j.a.luna; April 17, 2020 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Typo
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  12. #12
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    I've got mixed feelings. On the hand, Georgia will soon get access to the castle in Ani (the first province to conquer), and Kutaisi was a very feritile province, it should be the powerhouse of the kingdom. Maybe Kutaisi should stay a town, and Tbilisi should be made a castle. The latter population number is a sheer fantasy taken directly from the medieval sources or an occassional internet webpage.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I've got mixed feelings. On the hand, Georgia will soon get access to the castle in Ani (the first province to conquer), and Kutaisi was a very feritile province, it should be the powerhouse of the kingdom. Maybe Kutaisi should stay a town, and Tbilisi should be made a castle. The latter population number is a sheer fantasy taken directly from the medieval sources or an occassional internet webpage.
    But Ani also is a big city in the game unless you have to transform it into a castle... I have always seen Tbilisi as a castle/fortress in many medieval 2 mods, maybe is a good choice to balance Georgians...
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  14. #14
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    If one has to be converted as a castle, then it should be Tbilisi (used to be a fortress by the past if I remember correctly but doesn't need to be one at the start actually).
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader


  15. #15

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    If one has to be converted as a castle, then it should be Tbilisi (used to be a fortress by the past if I remember correctly but doesn't need to be one at the start actually).
    I also wondered why Tbilisi is changed into a city. I don't know about historical accuracy but strategically speaking, it's a vital point to keep any forces from the steppes away from the Caucasus.

    Come to think of it, I have observed AI Georgia trying to expand to the Middle East rather than consolidating the Caucasus a few times, getting as far as Hasankeyf. I think Georgia's territorial ambition might be the cause. A recreation of the Kingdom of Armenia of the Antiquity under Tigranes? If so, this might explain why in some people's games the Romans perform exceedingly well going into the 13th century, since there's a (relatively) friendly buffer that prevents Anatolian Turks from expanding beyond Sebasteia. A strategic oversight that the successors of Basil II committed, no doubt. A butterfly effect of sorts, since in those games I observed the Seljuks in Iran were also struggling to control Iran and focused more on their steppe domain; leaving Georgia relatively unchallenged sans the odd Cuman incursions and Seljuk rebels, with Tbilisi and Ani making a boatload of gold.

    Therefore, I recommend changing Tbilisi back into a castle again, with a more defensively oriented army garrisoned there. They should play more on the safe side like other feudal factions for the first 10 to 20 years.
    Last edited by officialdeo; April 22, 2020 at 06:27 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Yes, the AI is acting quite weird in this release and we don't know why. I may try something to solve that when time permitting. If there's no objection, I can change Tbilisi as a castle for the next release. That shouldn't be a problem.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader


  17. #17

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Yes, the AI is acting quite weird in this release and we don't know why. I may try something to solve that when time permitting. If there's no objection, I can change Tbilisi as a castle for the next release. That shouldn't be a problem.
    If you don't mind me going a bit off-topic, it might be as simple as the equilibrium of power in the Black Sea region. In many of my games, Cumans rarely become threatening to Hungarians, Romans, or even Georgia, allowing those factions to be quite stable and develop a lot. To make those factions focus more on their defence, I suggest better modelling (or at least gimmick) of nomad factions that will allow the Cumans to become more threatening to agricultural factions. They find themselves too often on the defence and their roster is not geared towards defensive playstyle.

  18. #18

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    On further inspection, Georgia's territorial ambition currently reaches as deep into Anatolia as Sebasteia. If so, then there's no wonder it will often cross swords with Anatolian Turks in some games, since the latter might try to conquer Sebasteia if they don't conquer Smyrna or Attaleia.

    I guess the goal set by the SSHIP team is to conquer the area that roughly corresponds to the Satrapy of Armenia instead of Armenia under Tigranes?
    Last edited by officialdeo; April 22, 2020 at 11:25 AM.

  19. #19
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Well, Sebasteia is not included, isn't. The upper Euphratus is, but not more. And the Turks are obviously one of the competitors of the Georgians in the region.
    The Tigranes' Armenia seems to me a product of the Greek historiography (those Syrian cities asking for assistance from Tigranes) that was happily taken by the modern Armenians (everybody likes to be a Great Kingdom, I know it form the map in the Polish texbooks - there's a short passage in the chronicles that our duke had a short control of Bohemia, maybe 2 years, maybe not, and in each and every textbook you can find the Great Poland including Bohemia as well...). Anybody knows what the Armenian sources (but not history books) tell about Tigranes kingdom?

    Then the Bagratuni crown is not the Armenian one, in this game.

    And first and foremost: for the gameplay the crown needs to have a minimum number of provinces. The Georgian is already very short of. So it's a kind of compromise.

  20. #20

    Default Re: [F] - GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Well, Sebasteia is not included, isn't. The upper Euphratus is, but not more. And the Turks are obviously one of the competitors of the Georgians in the region.
    The Tigranes' Armenia seems to me a product of the Greek historiography (those Syrian cities asking for assistance from Tigranes) that was happily taken by the modern Armenians (everybody likes to be a Great Kingdom, I know it form the map in the Polish texbooks - there's a short passage in the chronicles that our duke had a short control of Bohemia, maybe 2 years, maybe not, and in each and every textbook you can find the Great Poland including Bohemia as well...). Anybody knows what the Armenian sources (but not history books) tell about Tigranes kingdom?

    Then the Bagratuni crown is not the Armenian one, in this game.

    And first and foremost: for the gameplay the crown needs to have a minimum number of provinces. The Georgian is already very short of. So it's a kind of compromise.
    Apparently you're correct, looking at your current idea in PTF. I'm using 0.9.6 at the moment without the patch since I usually test gameplay with mercenaries included. I'm not complaining actually, the Bagratuni of Armenia is also accepted as the progenitors of the Georgian royal family and it wouldn't be that hard to imagine Georgia transforming into an Armenian-dominated great kingdom. I'd have that rather than seeing Georgia expanding far into Southern Russia; it makes no sense economically for any non-nomad faction of the time.

    I'm just letting you know to not be surprised when there will be games where Georgia shines and becomes a strong ally of the Romans at the expense of Anatolian Turks, and even the Zengids. That's why in the aforementioned post, I suggested the idea of making Georgia play a bit more defensive in the beginning to curb rapid snowballing, at least by the AI.
    Last edited by officialdeo; April 22, 2020 at 08:39 PM.

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