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Thread: GEORGIA

  1. #281

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777

    Are they an actual feudal class, maybe above Aznauri but below Eristavi. Or they are a retainer units recruited by feudal lords?
    Aznauri - were Feudals Cavalry , They had agricultural lands, they had peasants, They and their servants(Mokme/Msakhureuli) practiced fighting with a spear every day. Training and fighting - it was their duty.His peasants certainly worked on his lands.

    Tadzreuli - It was the King's personal cavalry. There were some aristocratic feudal lords, some were servants, some were young feudals. Their number was 500-1500 heavy cavalry . The king gave them armor and weapons, However, the aristocratic feudal lords and feudal lords already had their armaments.

    Chukhchi - It was the King's personal bodyguard cavalry-Warriors of the highest fighting qualities. Chukhcherakhi ( Achukhchi, Chukhcharkhi ) - is Was the commander of the King's guards.

    Monaspa- Foreign mercenaries Regular Cavalry of the king. They were Kypchaks , Alans, Kurds and Georgian Aznauri, Whose land was conquered by the enemy (georgians studied the style of nomadic fighting - give them with round georgian shields and Curved sword ). The number of monaspa was 2000-5000 cavalry


    Eristavi - head of the nation. This unit did not exist- Because there were a maximum of 10 Eristavi men in Georgia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eristavi


    My roster is based on historical units









    Jurand of Cracow


    I try to show the forum what characterizes us Georgians. That is what is known to us from the past. Fighting with a double ax This style really existed in western Georgia and still survives today.

    Western Georgia was a very forested country and Guerilla warriors needed a fast close battle. He must jump down from the trees, quickly kill the enemy and hide again.
    Guerilla warriors are weak in general battle and can not catch the line
    Last edited by Khevsur; November 29, 2021 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #282

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    New Art " Battle of Ertsukhi -1104 "

    Georgians destroyed the Turk-Seljuks






    high quality pic in spoiler
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Georgian Feudal Knight with sphere-conical segmental helmet and scale armour






    Last edited by Khevsur; November 29, 2021 at 05:08 PM.

  3. #283

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    I have a question regarding Tazreuli.

    Are they an actual feudal class, maybe above Aznauri but below Eristavi. Or they are a retainer units recruited by feudal lords?
    Hi friend, how go your work about georgian unit roster? Do you have some images for us??
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



    Sign the petition to remove hardcoded limits for M2TW

  4. #284

    Default Re: GEORGIA




    I think it is better to call this unit - Egrisian Axeman and he will replace Caucasian Hillman.

    If you do not like the idea of fighting with two axes, you can give a round Light wooden, leather covered shield, with shield boss and one Axe . But I think two axes are more convenient for an impassable forest Guerilla warrior
    Last edited by Khevsur; November 29, 2021 at 06:22 PM.

  5. #285

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by j.a.luna View Post
    Hi friend, how go your work about georgian unit roster? Do you have some images for us??
    Just a new spear model, and no new units yet

  6. #286

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    Just a new spear model, and no new units yet
    ok friend, little by little, the question is to finish it and be able to play it in sship mod hehe, but if some battle images would be appreciated or know how many units you have been able to remodel
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



    Sign the petition to remove hardcoded limits for M2TW

  7. #287

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Can one Georgian hymn be inserted in the game?

    this Chant - "You Are A Vineyard" was created by Demetrius I in 12 th century

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_I_of_Georgia

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUtR_3NKQDU&t=30s

  8. #288

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    When factional sounds will be implemented, of course

  9. #289

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Equipping a Georgian Aznauri and Mokme( in high and late period - Msakhureuli ) horse


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Khevsur; December 01, 2021 at 03:00 PM.

  10. #290
    Foederatus
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    Oct 2016
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    30

    Default Re: Bugs Reports & Technical Help

    Just noticed the "Experience of Troops" popup says new units will never get more than 2 chevrons but there are now some units that get +3 and +4 with the highest level buildings, when added with other experience giving building it should be possible to get new units with +6 in some cases.

    Also Monaspa Lancers have lower attack than Monaspa HA who also have higher defense skill and same Armour. Is that by design? Lancers next Armour is full plate vs MHA Heavy Brignadine both for 10 defence value.
    Georgian Met Spearman have armour upgrade as Leather Lamellar, I assume that = Light Lamellar in smiths.

  11. #291

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Somehow i planned the Monaspa fight with 'lances' while on foot (or with bow and lance), it may be not acceptable at all

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Textures are still WIP

  12. #292

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777





    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this is 13th-15th c shields. Slightly reduce the diameter. During this period the diameter of the round shields decreases.

    We do not want these helmets. Give them many kypchaks helmet , 1-2 Georgian helmet and 1-2 Alanian helmets.

    Do you remember shields of 11th-12th c Metsikhovne from my ilustration and materials ?give them Alan-Kypchak-Georgian shields mix. You are not limited in armor, use what the Kypchaks and Alans had. but Georgians in monaspa , use what the Georgians had.





    Infantry Monaspa with spears is not historical, it is better to make dismounted monaspa archers- with curved sword,Because we have many shok cavalry. kypachaks and alans were hired, because they were good nomadic archers cavalry. Georgian Knights not like bow-The bow was a weapon of cowardice for them. They loved hand-to-hand combat. But, in 13 th c Mongols showed Georgians A terrible lesson with bows- Mongols easily defeated the Georgians with a bow tactic. After that, Georgian cavalry began to learn how to fight with a bow and use a bow. Mongols took the Georgians cavalry in their battles - it was a military tax.


    You can make Monaspa Unit with the following priorities:
    1. Monaspa arches cavalry, with curved swords - We definitely need it (For which they were hired)
    2. Dismounted Monaspa Archers- for city battle - Not necessary, but possible
    3. Monaspa lancers cavalry - With short nomadic spears and curved swords - This is what we need the least , but possible.


    Monaspa - Slave Army (eng) (Mona-slave, Spa -Army ) Foreigners mercenary Regular army that only obeyed the king's orders. they were not slaves, they were mercenaries. Their slavery was manifested in the execution of the king's order.Their number was 2000-5000 cavalry .

    Monaspa was created by David IV The builder in the years 1118-1120.in georgia Monaspa was no longer after 1184 years, as most of kypchaks returned to their homeland 1125-1135 years. And there were no longer enough warriors for Monaspa units.
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 05, 2021 at 04:43 PM.

  13. #293

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Unfortunately medieval 2 engine does not allow warriors to have several weapons, so I think in the high and late periods we make Archers cavalry with sword or mace and Lancers Spearmen cavalry with sword or mace . I think it is better to do the same with Monaspa. Im Hopefully there will be places
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 05, 2021 at 06:53 PM.

  14. #294

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Alright, i'll share my plans on new Georgian roster recruitment. Maybe it will give any insights (Keep in mind it may changes following how the script works in next version):

    Landowners building lines (city & castle), 4 levels:
    Aznauri Lancers (Level 1, until turn 270-360)
    Aznauri Horse Archers (Level 1, from turn 270-360)
    Foot Aznauri (Level 1)
    General's Bodyguard (Level 3)

    City Barracks building lines, 7 levels:
    Mtieli Swordsmen (Level 1, AOR Georgia region only, trainable for all factions)
    Mountain Hunters (Level 1, AOR Georgia region only, trainable for all factions)
    Peasant Spearmen (Level 1, free upkeep unit)

    Castle Barracks building lines, 5 levels:
    Glekhi (Level 1)
    Peasant Spearmen (Level 1, free upkeep unit)
    Metsikhovne Spearmen (Level 2)
    Foot Mokme (Level 3)
    Foot Tazreuli (Level 5, from turn 80-140, AOR Georgia region only) An alternate concept is Tazreuli will be trained Level 1 Landowners building line but only in Tbilisi, replacing Aznauri. While Aznauri can be trained elsewhere

    Ranges building lines, 4 levels:
    Mountain Hunters (Level 1, AOR Georgia region only, trainable for all factions)
    Metsikhovne Archers (Level 2)
    Foot Msakhureuli (Level 3, from turn 270-360) Optional unit

    Stables building lines, 5 levels:
    Megrelian Horse Archers (Level 1, AOR Georgia region only, trainable for all factions)
    Mokme Cavalry (Level 2)
    Monaspa Lancers (Level 3, AOR Georgia and Tartar region until turn 150-220, AOR Georgia region only until turn 270-360) additionally, trainable everywhere from turn 270-360 as a proxy for Msakhureuli if no existing unit slots taken
    Msakhureuli Cavalry (Level 3, from turn 270-360) Optional unit
    Tazreuli Lancers (Level 4, from turn 80-140, AOR Georgia region only) An alternate concept is Tazreuli will be trained Level 1 Landowners building line but only in Tbilisi, replacing Aznauri. While Aznauri can be trained elsewhere

    Castle main building:
    Mtieli Swordsmen (AOR Georgia region only, trainable for all factions)

    Castle Narikala (Georgian Wonder):
    Chukhchi Axemen

    -------------
    Footnotes:
    - I don't put Foot Aznauri Archers while they could be put on because i already replace 2 slots from existing units (most possible candidates is Southern and Eastern European peasants, reason is they aren't trainable and only exist as rebel units which can be substituted by other regional units), and probably i can't replace any more units.
    - I don't put Peasant Archers unit with Georgian style because same reason above, instead i may put back Village Archers but it will be less historical.
    - At the moment there's no crossbow units in Georgian roster because historically crossbow isn't a widespread weapon in Georgia. But if i do, i'll put Eastern Crossbow Militia instead, in Level 2 Ranges line (again, no room for Svan Crossbowmen, sadly)
    - I don't put any European style late units, such as Pike Militia. Because they may be unhistorical. But maybe several of them still can be put on.
    - Last but not least. I'm not a development team member, i just voluntarily help. So don't expect this whole things will happen outright when the new version is released. I'm gonna do this as a submod first.
    Last edited by umbracatervae777; December 16, 2021 at 09:14 PM. Reason: revision following upcoming factional wonder

  15. #295
    kostic's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: GEORGIA

    @umbraca : Your project shows that you have mastered several points of the game. I personally hardly touched the files which allow the recruitment of units (EDB, campaign_script ... etc) for fear of coming into conflict with the work of JOC.It might be helpful if you were part of the team now as it keeps you up to date with beta additions with the developer feed.

  16. #296

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Yeah, and that's why if i'm ready to release the submod project, i'll wait for the complete new version first so i can follow up what script is available. I don't change the script though, mostly only EDU, EDB, and battle_models.modeldb

  17. #297

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777

    High and Late period Aznauri cavalry had spear, bow and a sword - This is a historical reality.In the 13th century there was a transformation of the fighting style, from knightly to nomadic.
    Dismounted Aznauri Archers - this is good for City battle , But if places are limited - it's better Aznauri Horse archers,It is much more historical and real
    Georgian peasants had bows (Peasant/eng=Glekhi/geo )
    Eastern Crossbow Militia in georgia ?- There was nothing like it in Georgia , There will be a destruction of historical reality.
    Svanian Crossbowmen-This is a historical reality
    European style late units in georgia ? - Absolutely unhistorical, There has been nothing like this in Georgia.
    Tartar Foot Lancers ? - What do they want in Georgia?There is nothing like it in history books. But you probably want to insert it because of the Mongol invasion.
    Metsikhovne Archers is enough, not to repeat the same style often- I mean servants / msakhureuli archers of the same class. It's better Glekhi archers.


    I will correct the names, it will be so much beautiful and historical

    Mountain Hunter - Svanian Archer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svaneti
    Megrelian Horse Archer - Egrisian Horse Archer
    Peasant Spearmen - Glekhi Spearmen
    General's Bodyguard - Chukhchi Bodyguard Cavalry
    Mtieli Swordsmen - Pkhovian Swordsmen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pkhovi
    Servant-Mokme 11th-12 th century , Msakhureuli - 13 th century ...

    I can not understand the scripts unfortunately and I can not say anything





    Guys is this really a historical improvement submod? what do you need to experiment with? Isn't it better to really improve historically? I mean absolutely non-historical and unsuitable units for Georgia. Western European and other units have nothing to do with Georgia.This is the same as tomatoes on ice cream
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 06, 2021 at 06:10 AM.

  18. #298

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777

    High and Late period Aznauri cavalry had spear, bow and a sword - This is a historical reality.In the 13th century there was a transformation of the fighting style, from knightly to nomadic.
    Dismounted Aznauri Archers - this is good for City battle , But if places are limited - it's better Aznauri Horse archers,It is much more historical and real
    I think that's a good alternative. Yeah i can set the roster to be more offensive rather than defensive (more favor to horse archers rather than foot archers)


    Eastern Crossbow Militia in georgia ?- There was nothing like it in Georgia , There will be a destruction of historical reality.
    This is one of least possible outcome, so in the end probably i won't put that, just like putting any late Western European units. Let's keep the evolution of Georgian roster to become more eastern/oriental

    Svan Crossbowmen-This is a historical reality
    Again, tight room for more new units. Also, tribal units usually don't fight in large numbers
    Or maybe just discard Svan Hunters and replace them with Svan Crossbowmen? Of course they will be trainable in later era

    Tartar Foot Lancers ? - What do they want in Georgia?There is nothing like it in history books. But you probably want to insert it because of the Mongol invasion.
    I'm just trying to adapt with the new script. While personally i found this script is a bit odd anyway. Or i can use the new script for increase the unit pool for Monaspa (since Monaspa is filled with some steppe warriors, Tartars probably included)

    Metsikhovne Archers is enough, not to repeat the same style often- I mean servants / msakhureuli archers of the same class. It's better Glekhi archers.
    Well, Msakhureuli Foot Archers is supposed to be a medium infantry for late era that can shoot some arrows. I can say they are a heavier archer than Metsikhovne. But that's a good idea.


    I will correct the names, it will be so much beautiful and historical

    Mountain Hunter - Svanian Archer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svaneti
    Megrelian Horse Archer - Egrisian Horse Archer
    Peasant Spearmen - Glekhi Spearmen
    General's Bodyguard - Chukhchi Bodyguard Cavalry
    Mtieli Swordsmen - Pkhovian Swordsmen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pkhovi
    Servant-Mokme 11th-12 th century , Msakhureuli - 13 th century ...

    This is a nice addition
    Last edited by umbracatervae777; December 06, 2021 at 06:30 AM.

  19. #299

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    umbracatervae777

    I think that's a good alternative. Yeah i can set the roster to be more offensive rather than defensive (more favor to horse archers rather than foot archers)
    high/late period Dismounted Aznauri archers - It's good if there are slots. If not, it will be more historic high/late period Aznauri horse Lancers and Aznaury horse archers


    This is one of least possible outcome, so in the end probably i won't put that, just like putting any late Western European units. Let's keep the evolution of Georgian roster to become more eastern/oriental
    Yes, this unit is not a good idea. Because they did not take part in the history of Georgia

    Again, tight room for more new units. Also, tribal units usually don't fight in large numbers
    Or maybe just discard Svan Hunters and replace them with Svan Crossbowmen? Of course they will be trainable in later era
    Better to be both. If not are slots , it is better not create Svanian crossbowmen . Svanian Archers , with a strong bow of 2-3 branches- this is a classic.It definitely needs to be in all periods


    Tartar Foot Lancers
    Take them out of Georgia: D


    Dismounted Msakhureuli Archers
    Maybe if there are enough slots. But it is better to create other necessary units first.



    This is a nice addition
    Yes. These names are much better



    Because I'm from a historical Pkhovi ( late pshav - Khevsureti) . I want to say one more thing- These warriors are my favorite unit because they are my ancestors.And I really like their ancient combat school and fencing.I'm proud that they never fled the battlefield. Who fled from the battlefield. He would no longer be taken back and his family ridiculed.The coward deserter's family was expelled from Pkhovi.There were very strict laws in the mountains of Georgia, And they had one tradition - if they killed an enemy, they cut right hands dead enemy and hang it on the wall of their own house.If you completely covered the wall of the house with the right hands of dead enemies - be a very cool warrior.They have been raised as warriors since childhood and trained in sword fencing

    Pkhovi disintegrated in the 15th century - and gave rise to two region : Khevsureti and Pshavi
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khevsureti

    Their character can be seen from the fact that for the Georgian people today, 300 warriors are saints and paint icons about them.Before the fight they said: Disgrace to those of us who will return home alive!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Aragvians



    Pkhovian Swodsmen never runs away from the battlefield. Wins or dies !
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 06, 2021 at 08:42 AM.

  20. #300

    Default Re: GEORGIA

    Jurand of Cracow

    You are Polish, you may know Russian.This is a book about Pkhovian sword fencing And hand-to-hand combat.
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 06, 2021 at 07:43 AM.

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