RUS (Kiev & Novgorod)

[Jurand of Cracow]

I. General information

This thread is meant to gather all information about the faction and to conduct discussions on the faction related issues.
The entries should be developed by both the SSHIP team and the interested players.

It continues the discussion conducted in this thead.

[Jurand of Cracow]

II. Strategy & gameplay


To be developed in due course. If you've played the game with this faction and have insights how to help fellow players, please write a proposal for this section.

[Jurand of Cracow]

III. Provinces (incl. names, provincial titles, resources, map features etc.)

The provinces that have historically been assigned to this faction are listed here - it's usually defined by the "faction_creator" in the "descr_strat.txt" file.

Provincial titles:
General explanations to be found in the relevant thread on the PTs.
Catholic: "Comes" with Latin names of the provinces, modified if historically justified.
Orthodox: “Knyaz” + name + "skyi". If somebody would collect the historical names, please drop an entry in this thread.
Muslim: generic "Emir".

Names of provinces: I haven't reviewed the names of the provinces at all. I think some adjustments are needed. The Latin names of the titels are also created with limited knowledge, except of the three Rutheniae and Volhynie (well, I consulted the Latin version of Wikipedia).
Coast of arms: have been reviewed and updated to be as historical as possible (but Ryazan).


Volodymyr (Volhynia)
PT: Comes Volhyniae
CoA:
Settlement name: Volodymyr. There was an opinion that it should be changed into Volodimer'. (but I'm not sure if it's rigth - maybe it's only a Russian spelling (as opposite to the Ukrainian).
Province name: Volhynia.

Goroden (Goroden)
PT: Comes Rutheniae Nigrae
CoA:
Settlement name:
Province name:

Halych (Galicia)
PT: Comes Rutheniae Rubrae
CoA: ok (black jackdaw in the white field).
Settlement name: Halych. In the late era: Lviv (founded 1251, set as capital of the region 1272). There was an opinion that it should be changed to Galich' but I think it's a Russian spelling (as opposite to the Ukrainian).
Province name: Galicia.
Resources: this rich province has access to salt, ...
Halych was in the sphere of interests of at least 4 SSHIP factions: Rus (Kiev, then Principality of Halych-Volodymyr), Hungary (eg. II. Andras was the "king" here in 13th century, and also in early 14th c. it was under suzerainty of the Hungarian kings), Poland (took over in mid-14th century and became an integral part of the kingdom for hundred of years), and to a lesser extend of the Cumans (as being on the outskirts of the steppes).

Turov (Turov)
PT: Comes Turoviae
CoA:
Settlement name: Turov.
Province name: Turov.

Polotsk (Polotsk)
PT: Comes Rutheniae Albae
CoA: I've got major doubts if the current CoA (a boat) is the right one.
Settlement name: Polotsk.
Province name:

Novgorod (Novgorod)
PT: Dux Novogardiensis
CoA: check and replaced with the correct version from 14th century.
Settlement name:
Province name:

Pleskov (Pskov)
PT: Comes Pscoviae
CoA:
Settlement name: Pleskov (local one, pertinent to the 12th century), later eras Pskov - the Slavic one.
Province name:
Creator of this settlement should be Lithuania as the locals were not Slavs, but the locals. Even the name Pleskow suggests it (the slavic one is Pskov).

Chernigov (Chernigov)
PT: Comes Czernihoviae
CoA:
Settlement name: Chernigov
Province name: Chernigov

Kyev (Kyev)
PT: Dux Kioviensis
CoA:
Settlement name:
Province name:

Pereyaslav (Pereyaslav)
PT: Comes Pereaslaviae
CoA:
Settlement name: changed into Pereyaslavl'
Province name:

Smolensk (Smolensk)
PT: Dux Smolenscensis
CoA:
Settlement name: changed into Smolenesk
Province name:


Rustov (Rustov)
PT: Comes Rostoviae -> should be changed into Comes Suzdalensis
CoA:
Settlement name: should be changed to Suzdal
Province name: should be changed to Volodymyr-Suzdal or rather Zalesye (see here).

In 1132 the main settlement of this region should be Suzdal. Then it should be moved to in 2nd part of 12th century to Volodymyr.
Suzdal province was on the border of Rus expansion that started just in the previous century. It was a principality but weak as far as population is concerned.

Suzdal (Suzdal)
PT: Comes Suzdalensis -> should be changed into Comes Muromiensis or Ryazanensis
CoA:
Settlement name: Suzdal -> should be restored to Murom (as it was before), but later to Ryazan.
Province name: Murom.

This province should the province between Volodymyr-Suzdal and Volgha Bulghars. The people of Murom still lived in this area and it should be renamed accordingly.
Furthermore, the size of the settlement should be tiny: a village with nothing inside.



Ryazan (Ryazan)
PT: Comes Resaniae
CoA:
Settlement name: changed into Ryazan'
Province name:

[Jurand of Cracow]

IV. Faction specific features

The Crown of Russia is discussed in this entry. The map is below. It is shared by both factions.

The Offices are described in this thread (only generic offices).

There are special books for the Rus factions (see here).

Kiev has access to some buildings that may be not available to every faction. In particular, there is a wonder in Kiev that's essential for the faction and there is a chain of buildings Rus Monasteries.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Unique buildings for Novgorod:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kiev / Novogorod Blood: details not checked. It should be shared with Novgorod but for now two bloods exist.

Specific traits: not checked.

[Jurand of Cracow]

V. Starting position in 1132 (incl. settlements, armies, generals, traits, political situation)

The situation in Kiev in 1132 was very complicated and the problems of keeping the ruling lands together under one Knyaz were abundant. And in this very year he died. One needs to review the situation and to adjust the "usuper" triggers, or maybe make the starting situation after the death of the ruler, with some provinces independent.

[Jurand of Cracow]

VI. Units

There's too many Axe units. Historically, small axes were secondary weapon (instead of swords, that were too expensive), while big axes were very rare. Big axes should predominantly be mercenary units. These were guys making breakthroughts in the battles.

Possibility for change:

Finally, I noticed the Serbians got a unit, Slavic Levy, that isn't used by the Russians. It could probably be copied over with some adjustments to name and replace the Junior Militia, freeing up one unit slot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Jurand of Cracow]

VIII. Reserve

to be used if needed

[Lurker from Codex]

CoA: I've got major doubts if the current CoA (a ship) is right.

You are right to have doubts. Current CoA of Polotsk (a shield with a depiction of a ship sailing on silver waves) was established in 1498. I believe there was no CoA to speak of before then.

However, Iziaslav Vladimirovich (Knyaz of Polotosk) had a Seal that looks like this:



No idea what is it supposed to be. The current CoA (ship) looks good. I believe this is the case you'd better be ahistorical.

[Lurker from Codex]

Sorry if I'm being annoying lately, but there are numerous historical mistakes regarding Novgorod that need to be rectified. I'm actually surprised by the amount of detail you gave to minor characters like Vasilko Sviatoslavich (independent general guarding Polotsk), but made so many mistakes in actual playable faction. Feels even more weird that you did everything right with Kievan Rus, as if the research for KR and Novgorod was done by different people. Anyway, here goes:

1. A typo in faction leader's name (he was Vsevolod, not Vselovod)
2. The game starts at 1132. Vsevolod was 29, not 44.
3. Svyatoslav Olgovich was actually younger than Vsevolod, not older. He was 25 at 1132, not 50.
4. Oleg Olgovich, son of Svyatoslav, wasn't even born in 1132. He was born in 1137.
5. Vsevolod's wife is named Svyatoslava Chernigovskii..? Okay, this one deserves a separate paragraph.

The ONLY thing we know about Vsevolod's wife is her father. His name was Svyatoslav Chernigovskii. He was quite an important historical figure, but nothing is known about his daughter: not her name, not her age, only the fact she was married to Vsevolod Mstislavich. I need to stress it out: SHE was married to Vsevolod, not HER FATHER. Russian wiki says her name was probably Anna, but I failed to find the source. Might as well be Anna for all I care. Anything but Svyatoslava Chernigovskii.

6. In the game Vsevolod has two children: Ivan and Vysheslava. Ivan is dead (which is true, he died in 1128). Vsevolod lost another child in 1128 - his daughter Anna (Yanka), she died as a baby just like Ivan. But that's not important. Vysheslava is 7 at the start of the game, which is surprisingly accurate given you made Vsevolod 44 years old. Your spelling of her name is slightly surprising - I found numerous versions of it(Viacheslava, Verhuslava, Wierzchoslawa), but not a single mention of Vysheslava. And okay, I can see where this is coming from - not crucial.

But what about Vladimir? Vsevolod had two sons: Ivan who died in 1128 and Vladimir who was held hostage by Novgorodians during the events of 1136, when Novgorod became a republic. Vladimir played a crucial role during the exile of Vsevolod, they nominated this little boy as Prince of Novgorod right after exiling his father (basically an excuse to hold young Vladimir as a hostage).

The exact birth date of Vladimir is unknown, but we know that he was underaged for the role of Prince of Novgorod. Maybe make him 8 or 9 years old at the start of the game?

7. This is a suggestion. Oleg Olgovich needs to go, he doesn't belong to 1132. Why don't you replace him with Sviatopolk Mstislavich? He is the son of Mstislav Monomakh (faction leader of Kievan Rus) and Vsevolod's younger brother. Mstislav had many children, including four sons (well, SIX if we count his second marriege, but let's not): Vsevolod (faction leader of Novgorod), Iziaslav (playable general of Kievan Rus), Rostislav (playable general of Kievan Rus), and Sviatopolk (not represented in the game). Sviatopolk was actually a Prince of Novgorod for a short while. I believe he was Novgorod's faction leader either in SS 6.4 or Titanium submod. He would definitetely fit better than Oleg Olgovich.

8. Pskov wasn't really a part of Novgorod Republic until 1136, it was an independent state. In fact, there was no Novgorod Republic until 1136. Also, do you have to name it Pleskov..? I know it was called like that in 903 (or rather mentioned as Pleskov in archaic piece of literature "Povest Vremennih Let" that was written in 903). But there is no reason to keep it named Pleskov in 1132.

I thought of providing links to the info, but I only used Russian sources. Tell me if you need them. English ones are very lacking on the Russian history.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Pskov wasn't really a part of Novgorod Republic until 1136, it was an independent state. In fact, there was no Novgorod Republic until 1136. Also, do you have to name it Pleskov..? I know it was called like that in 903 (or rather mentioned as Pleskov in archaic piece of literature "Povest Vremennih Let" that was written in 903). But there is no reason to keep it named Pleskov in 1132

I'd say that a unique name of Novgorod Republic is needed because the game span is of 400 years. I find "Novgorodskaya Zemlya" as Lifhrasir put it, to be better.

I personally think that Pskov should be indeed made independent. It'd also be good for the gameplay.

On the name - yeah, perhaps you're right, Pskov would fit better. On the other hand, I have doubts about north-eastern part of Rus - it was freshly conquered, and even maybe not yet in 1132. Thus, perhaps we should stick to the Finnish names there?

"Technically, Vladimir Monomakh (faction leader of Kievan Rus) is still alive at the start of the game. IRL he died in 1132 - that's when Kievan Rus was broken in separate entities, and lands around Kiev became known as Киевское Кяжество (Kyev'skoye Knyazhestvo)."

I'd indeed prefer naming Kievan Rus as Kyev'skoye Knyazhestvo.

I'd also prefer setting the game in such a way that at the beginning Vladimir is dead, and most of the provinces of the faction are independent. This would require rebuilding of the family tree of this faction, adding usurper traits etc.

Personally, I'm fine with the current symbol (white orthodox cross on blue background)

This is so true. And yet the game does NOT represent this in any way. Novgorod's main strength, it's financial/trading might, came from both its access to the Baltic Sea AND from the rivers leading straight to the Black Sea (Byzantium). Did you know that Rus people actually sucessfuly raided Constantinople with 200 ships coming from the Black Sea? It was in 860, before Rus became christians.... My point is, the main strategical difference between Novgorod and the rest of Rus lands is it's Baltic Sea -Volhov River connection... But we're talking 1132, the time of trade. Most valuable trade resources (for Novgorod, I mean) are located in Byzantium (spices and silk). However, it takes FOREVER for merchants to travel there on foot. Do you think it's possible to make a river connection between Novgorod and Constantinople via some map editing? No pressure, though. Just throwing ideas for future releases.

I'm also fine with the symbol.

I don't think it's worth to make a connection with the Tzargorod. It's 150 or more years after the Rus raids, it's a completely different world.

[Lifthrasir]

Following the original discussion about the Rus titles, here is my summary (I can be wrong through ):

1. For Kievan Rus: Faction's name should be: Kyev'skaya Zemlya

Use traits or retinue (or something like this):
Ryurikovich' - for all members of family
Knyaz' X'skyi - for each male member of family (who have trait Ryurikovich') who is governor of town X
Posadnik X'skyi - for each ordinary general who is governor of town X

Use word Knyazhich' for Heir, and Dotzi Knyazha for Princess. Use word Voevoda for each ordinary general (if at all necessary), Tysyach'skyi for Captain.

2. For Novgorod: Faction's name should be:Novgorodskaya Zemlya

If we really want and manage to represent the republican system of Novgorod, then it would be Posadnik X'skyi (each family member/general who is governor of town X) and no Heir system.

If we go for a monarchical system (easier but inaccurate), then it would be similar as for the Kievan Rus.
On top of this:

You should keep in mind that all the feuds and fights and intrigues that troubled every country on earth are not, and cannot be represented in MIITW.
Therefore, you shouldn't try to hard to implement it (unless you do so with some scripts, which would be totally awesome!), because no political figures can be shown in the game.
Novgorod still had princes, who led them to battle. They were just less powerful than those in other cities, as the citizens were much richer than elsewhere, and therefore more capable of challenging the sovereign. In principle, it could have happened in any town and anywhere.

I'm quite "annoyed" about what to do with Novgorod tbh

Edit: Anyone able to translate the legend for the different symbols below? Many thanks in advance

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lurker from Codex]

1. For Kievan Rus: Faction's name should be: Kyev'skaya Zemlya

I don't think that's necessary. Technically, Mstislav Monomakh (faction leader of Kievan Rus) is still alive at the start of the game. IRL he died in 1132 - that's when Kievan Rus was broken in separate entities, and lands around Kiev became known as Киевское Кяжество (Kyev'skoye Knyazhestvo). This map is from around 1160, but it represents more or less accurate what happened after Mstislav Monomakh's death:

If we really want and manage to represent the republican system of Novgorod

Yes, but should you? Again, Novgorod wasn't a republic at 1132. Vsevolod Mstislavich was appointed as Knyaz by his father, Vladimir Monomakh. Only when he was exiled by Novgorodians in 1136 (call it a revolution of sorts) the nation became a proper republic, with Veche (sort of city council) electing their ruler. Which wasn't really an election, but that's not the point.

As I see it, at the start of the game the player is given the opportunity to hold monarchical system in Novgorod, preventing it from becoming a republic. Also, I dimly remember playing some mod where Veche system was implemented. Was it Titanium..? Or maybe some previous version of SSHIP?

I'm quite "annoyed" about what to do with Novgorod tbh

I would honestly leave it as it is in term of faction ruler - heir system.

Anyone able to translate the legend for the different symbols below?

No prob. The word "знак" in this context can be used as both sign, sigil, or seal. I'll just say sign, but it might be any of that.

Picture name: "Signs or Rurikovichi"

1 - Sign on a brick of Church of the Tithes.
2-5 - Signs on the coins of Vladimir Sviatoslavich.
6 - Coin of Vladimir Sviatoslavich with a sign.
7 - Sign on one of the most ancient seals.
8 - Coin of Yaroslav the Wise with a sing of Rurikovichi.
9 - Sign on an amulet, published by T.Arne.
10 - Sign on Stockholm's exhibit of Yaroslav's silver.
11, 12 - Ancestral signs of Knyaz's.

[Lifthrasir]

Unfortunately, there's no so many options to represent the Kievan Rus realm collapse in an accurate way in game

Anyway, I'm fine to keep a monarchial system for Novgorod. Should we implement the same "Ryurikovich' trait for that faction as well?

And many thanks for the translation. +rep as soon as I can

[Lurker from Codex]

Should we implement the same "Ryurikovich' trait for that faction as well?

It's basically one family. I don't know if it's possible to combine them all under one family tree, but if it is - that would be grand. Make Vsevolod (faction leader of Novgorod) son of Mstislav (faction leader of Kievan Rus).

As for the trait itself, well, don't we have "Of Novgorodian Blood" and "Of Kievan Blood" already? Maybe you should simply change the description of these traits? The current ones are sketchy.

Of Kievan Blood:

This man is a descendant of Vsevolod Yaroslavich, a very powerful Kievan monarch. His pride is quite understandable, and is said to be reflected in his devotion to the dynasty.

Of Novgorodian Blood:

This man is a descendant of Ysevolod I, the main figurine of the Republic. His pride is quite understandable, and is said to be reflected in his devotion to the dynasty.

Okay, Vsevolod I and Vsevolod Yaroslavich WAS THE SAME PERSON. Not only his name is spelled wrong in Novgorodian description (the name "Ysevolod" doesn't exist - it's Vsevolod), I honestly doesn't see any point in making these bloodlines separate. It's one family. Mstislav Monomakh was the grandson of Vsevolod I, and Vsevolod Mstislavich was his grand-grandson.

And they are ALL Rurikovichi.

[Lifthrasir]

Again, I agree with you about the blood lines which should both have the same origin. Thanks again for the info/confirmation. I'll look at how to represent that in their family tree

But we still need to make some differences between both factions for the gameplay. What about to focuse Novgorod roster more on infantry units (and possibly archery one) while Kievan one would focuse more on cavalry (and possibly some spearmen)? The idea behind this is to represent the fact that Kievan faces Cumans while Novgorod would face Lithuania and Poland a bit later, possibly the Norses as well. Then, it is also possible to add a crown benefit, something like if the player manage to gather both factions under one ruler, then he gets access to both rosters

[Lurker from Codex]

What about to focuse Novgorod roster more on infantry units (and possibly archery one) while Kievan one would focuse more on cavalry (and possibly some spearmen)?

Let's not forget Novgorod has access to the Baltic Sea, and Kievan Rus doesn't. Novgorod has its national ships (Lad'ya and Holks), that should count for something. Agree with your take on cavalry - there is no reason for Novgorod to have access to Pecheneg units (light horse archers, you can recruit them in Kolyvan and Goroden at the moment - castles you can easily grab early on as Novgorod).

Let me just re-use my map:

Blue circle is Novgorod.
Red circle is Kiev.
Brown is the steppes where Pechenegs hanged out. Yes, they raided Rus lands, but Novgorod is WAY too far. Especially since we're talking 1132. Anna Komnena stated that ALL Pechenegs died in battle of 1091, when combined forces of Byzantium and Polotsk genocided not only man-warriors of Pechenegs, but also their women and children.

So if you include them in the game, I suggest making them very rare, maybe restricted to Kievan Rus territories. From gameplay perspective, early access to Pechenegs makes Novgorod campaign much easier. Novgorod doesn't have any skirmisher units or light cavalry until they build/capture a fortress, where they can recruit Junior Druzhina - a very expensive and slow-to-amass horse archer unit. Until then, it's always a struggle to harass enemy forces and break their formations.

Novgorod should fight like a slow, cumbersome bear. So this:

focuse Novgorod roster more on infantry units (and possibly archery one)

This will work for both flavor and gameplay.

Then, it is also possible to add a crown benefit, something like if the player manage to gather both factions under one ruler, then he gets access to both rosters

Is it even possible? In any case, I would rather see the mod ironed out in terms of stability/bugs/historical accuracy. New features are always great to have, but being able to play and to be engaged in the game comes first, I think.

[Lifthrasir]

Is it even possible? In any case, I would rather see the mod ironed out in terms of stability/bugs/historical accuracy. New features are always great to have, but being able to play and to be engaged in the game comes first, I think.

Yes, it's possible to introduce such feature. But, agree, that's not priority for now.

Edit: About a possible change of the Novgorod faction's symbol, I've found these:


Novgorod seal from AD 1096 to 1113.


Novgorod seal from AD 1117 to 1136. The image on the left side is of the Annunciation by angel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary.


Novgorod seal from AD 1210 to 1218.

I'm wondering if that guy with a spear and shield is not a representation of Saint Theodore Stratilates

[Lurker from Codex]

Edit: About a possible change of the Novgorod faction's symbol, I've found these:

Why would you want to change its faction symbol? This will be a painful road. Seems like you're planning to pick one of Novgorod's seals, which makes sense. Russian academic V.L.Yanin in his work "Seals of Rus X-XV centuries" (might be translating the name wrong, it's called "Актовые печати Древней Руси X-XV вв.") pointed out that there were five depictions on different seals of Novgorod until the end of XV century:
- Спас Вседержитель (Pantokrator aka Jesus Christ)
- Foot soldier with a spear
- Mounted soldier
- Beast (most likely a lion)
- Sitting bird (most likely an eagle)

Yanin speculated these emblems represent five main districts of Novgorod with a tendency to unite into a singular Coat of Arms if given a chance. Then Ivan the Terrible happened. It was he who designed Novgorod's seal:



Which later became official Coat of Arms, present to this day.



Personally, I'm fine with the current symbol (white orthodox cross on blue background) - it's both neutral and fitting. Technically, Novgorod in 1132 was a part of Kievan Rus. Not even a vassal nation, but a part of it. Which is mentioned in Novgorod's ingame description:

While still technically a part of Kievan Rus, Novgorod has been growing more and more independent from the power of the Kievan throne as disputes over the right to rule Kiev threaten to engulf the Rus.

I see no problem with leaving this fictional emblem as Novgorod's faction symbol. Speaking of nation descriptions, here is another excerpt:

Novgorod’s strength comes from its importance as a rich centre of trade. Situated astride the River Volkhov, Novgorod is the gateway to the river trade routes from the Baltic to Constantinople and beyond.

This is so true. And yet the game does NOT represent this in any way. Novgorod's main strength, it's financial/trading might, came from both its access to the Baltic Sea AND from the rivers leading straight to the Black Sea (Byzantium). Did you know that Rus people actually sucessfuly raided Constantinople with 200 ships coming from the Black Sea? It was in 860, before Rus became christians.

My point is, the main strategical difference between Novgorod and the rest of Rus lands is it's Baltic Sea -Volhov River connection. Let me use a screenie from Crusader Kings 2:



Volhov doesn't simply run somewhere near Novgorod. The river runs straight through the city:



In Crusader Kings 2 it's totally possible to sail straight to Constantinople and pillage the hell out of it.



But we're talking 1132, the time of trade. Most valuable trade resources (for Novgorod, I mean) are located in Byzantium (spices and silk). However, it takes FOREVER for merchants to travel there on foot.

Do you think it's possible to make a river connection between Novgorod and Constantinople via some map editing? No pressure, though. Just throwing ideas for future releases.

[Lifthrasir]

I'm just talking about the faction's symbol, not the banners. So, actually, that's not so compicated to do. The actual symbol for Novgorod is based on an old representation of cavalry banners from the 15th century.
The one you're showing is from Ivan the Terrible and used during the 16th century.

We both agree that Novgorod and Kievan Rus are from the same lineage. The symbol of the Kievan Rus is based on the old Bosporus Tamga on which they add a cross when they became christians. Originally, that symbol is a representation of the absolute power. The other fact to consider is that during the 12th century, each Riurikid princes still tended to have their own mark/symbol also called znaki (if I'm not mistaken).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm pretty sure that Vsevolod used a similar symbol but I can't find any evidence. I don't pretend to be a specialist and I can be wrong of course. Anyway, I'm still looking for more info

Regarding rivers, the only option I can see would be to use navigable rivers, something I'm against to.

[Lurker from Codex]

I'm just talking about the faction's symbol, not the banners. So, actually, that's not so compicated to do. The actual symbol for Novgorod is based on an old representation of cavalry banners from the 15th century.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. I thought you were talking about this:



If that is the case, I stand by my previous opinion.

Personally, I'm fine with the current symbol (white orthodox cross on blue background) - it's both neutral and fitting.

Crusader Kings 2 use a somewhat similiar symbol for Novgorod:

But if you mean some other symbol, where in the game can I see it?

I'm pretty sure that Vsevolod used a similar symbol but I can't find any evidence.

Modern archeologists managed to find Vsevolod's seal under Zelenograd.

each Riurikid princes still tended to have their own mark/symbol also called znaki (if I'm not mistaken).

True, but these znaki didn't always look like weird slavic runes. Sometimes they were indeed depictions of various saints. Or something else entirely.

What we DO know for certain from the works of Yanin and Beletskiy, every Knyaz used his znak (sign, insignia) on the trade seals. Here are some examples of trade seals from medieval period:





See, it wasn't always a rune.